TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2018-06-13

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12:10 AM

@marmot I don't intend to offend you, but how can you code like that? I'd completely lose track if I didn't indent my code.

@Skillmon I can indent it but the magic word is syntax highlighting ;-)

12:27 AM

I must agree with the rodentia, syntax highlighting is way better then just indenting.

12:44 AM

@marmot then your syntax highlighting must be exceptionally good. Believe it or not, I have syntax highlighting, too, but for code this results in no syntax highlighting, because almost everything is a control sequence and therefore coloured the same way. Which editor and highlighting scheme are you using? Can you post screenshots of your highlighted code?

@Skillmon Better now?

@marmot much :)

@Skillmon To answer your question, I am using a very old editor which has all sorts of problems. It is called nedit and does no longer get supported. But I got so used to it that I simply cannot work with more modern editors. Of course, it does not highlight matching \if, \else and \fi, but whenever I write an \if I immediately also write \fi and then insert stuff in between, that's pretty fail safe. The editor does, however show matching parentheses and recognizes TeX commands

1:16 AM

@marmot Have you tried Pspad ?

@G.Bay No. Is it free and does it work on Mac OS?

@marmot Yes its free, lemme check mac compatibility

Sorry, it does not run o mac, there is a experimental old version but... dunno if its worth

@G.Bay According to Wikipedia it only works on Windows... (I am actually thinking of switching to gedit...)

forums.macrumors.com/threads/pspad-for-mac-experimental.1422562

3 hours later…

4:06 AM

user image

@egreg The reason \rm still exists in people's documents after 24 years.

2 hours later…

6:32 AM

@marmot I'm using VIM, and most of the times also write \if, \fi and probably \else immediately together, but sometimes forget... And syntax-highlighted dense TeX code is non-syntax-highlighted code, because almost everything is a control sequence, only matching braces is useful... But indented code is a lot more legible, imho, regardless of syntax highlighting. Most of the time, when I answer questions I first indent the code reasonably (of course only in complex questions).

@Skillmon I definitely agree that this is a good practice.

6:50 AM

@marmot no one would say that @Skillmon's opening phrase is good practice, surely.

@marmot now you have got the hang of picture mode, I hope you'll answer all tikz questions that way.

@UlrikeFischer because there isn't a roman font in fam 0?

@DavidCarlisle Well, you know that there is a life before TikZ and even before PSTricks.... but I am not sure I am missing this life ;-)

@marmot marmots only have short lives so stick with the one true drawing mechanism, you have no time for following every modern trend

@DavidCarlisle The trick is reincarnation ;-)

@marmot that would help

@DavidCarlisle If you behave very well, you might get reborn as a marmot... ;-)

3

7:07 AM

@DavidCarlisle you're right. It should have been: "I'm using the all-mighty glorious VIM, god imperator of all editors, vanquisher of the OS called Emacs, known for not shipping with a decent editor by default -- and most of the times..."

7:21 AM

@DavidCarlisle that doesn't explain why it worked until tl16. Also \rm in math calls \mathrm, and \mathrm still works fine. To me it looks more as if the grouping has changed and \rm no longer grabs the rest of the "argument".

@DavidCarlisle but we can blame me and @egreg. We made the bug reports the commit refers too ...

7:36 AM

@marmot and if he does not, then a duck be it.

7:47 AM

@DavidCarlisle @egreg do we have any idea where those U+200E unicode chars are coming from? We've had at least 3 questions with those in the last 10 days, coming from TeXStudio and TeXPad, not sure about thest last. Also props to jbfu for the setting in Emacs to visualize them.

@daleif Left-to-right mark, usually found in code from people using Arabic keyboards.

@egreg I know, but none of the names of the users or their test documents gave any indication of anything arabix being involved.

@UlrikeFischer haven't looked at the code yet:-)

@UlrikeFischer I'll just blame @egreg, it's simpler that way

@Skillmon typeset using this no doubt: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/29402/…

8:06 AM

@daleif and two seem to use etoc, which is also rather a coincidence. But imho you will have to ask the OP if they copy & pasted or typed the code.

@UlrikeFischer That's probably the best.

@DavidCarlisle no, I'm being serious on this one.

8:34 AM

@DavidCarlisle Email about tex.ac.uk sent ...

8:58 AM

@yo' ooh <3

Stefan Kottwitz

9:53 AM

@JosephWright What content? Setting hard to IP 78.46.26.59 or setting as an alias again? An alias could be texfaq.net that is 78.46.26.59 and can redirect to texfaq.org and fine. texfaq.net could be kept for that purpose only.

@StefanKottwitz More-or-less exactly that, but the key aim first is to find who can acutally do the job: I've mailed the admin staff, not anyone technical

@StefanKottwitz I've forwarded the mail

@samcarter good timing ;-)

10:17 AM

@AlanMunn @egreg I know that the two of you are going to stone me to death, but \rm is handy when time is money and it's large-scale

10:27 AM

@JosephWright looked good thanks

@yo' What have \rm ever done for us? :)

2

11:09 AM

@PauloCereda 🍍🍕

2

11:20 AM

@DavidCarlisle ooh Unicode pizza

@PauloCereda I was thinking what we really need is unicode combining characters for pizza topping so 🍕🍍🐖 could be be @CarLaTeX's favourite dinner

@DavidCarlisle for TUG 2018, we could write an app that orders food made of functional composition of Unicode glyphs. :)

Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

@DavidCarlisle oh no

11:40 AM

@DavidCarlisle Unicode 11?

@JosephWright nope 6 :-)

Yesterday I had sweet potato pudding

@PauloCereda 🍠

11:57 AM

@DavidCarlisle never eaten unicode chars

@DavidCarlisle ooh they thought of everything

@DavidCarlisle: Paulo's finished thesis: �

@PauloCereda 🝬

@DavidCarlisle oh

@PauloCereda nearest I could find for vapourware

@DavidCarlisle /sob

12:44 PM

@UlrikeFischer , @CarLaTeX Form fields are inserted by the clickable library of Pgfplots that is loaded when the documentation is built. Form Fields need an Appearance stream (inital view) in order to be functional, but Christian didn't provide them. Hence, they are created by AcroRead, which dirties the document, and later, upon closing the PDF, it asks for saving.

1:04 PM

@AlexG Thank you! But Christian could solve the problem, couldn't he?

1:27 PM

installing texlive 2018 on Linux. texlive page says "You do not need to be root (administrator on Windows) to install, use, or manage TeX Live. Indeed, we recommend installing it as a normal user," but the above is not correct. When I run ./install-tl as normal user, I got error that I have no permission to do something. So I did sudo first and now it works. Someone should fix the TUG web page tug.org/texlive/quickinstall.html

@Nasser For me it just worked (of course I made sure to have write permission in the directory I installed into).

@mickep yes. the directory was local to me, in my home folder. I am running new installed linux ubuntu. Just installed.

> Chile's Senate has passed a bill that will prohibit the use of plastic bags in stores, with a vote in their House of Representatives overwhelmingly in favor of the measure, with 134 supporting the bill and one abstention.

@Nasser OK, strange. I did it on a freshly installed Xubuntu (18.04). Sorry, but I don't know how to help you...

@CarLaTeX Probably he could. An appearance stream can be created from a TeX box using the \pdfxform primitive.

1:42 PM

@mickep I am ok, I was not asking for help. Installation is going on now. I always actually installed texlive as root. This time I decided to follow instructions and do it as normal user, but I got this error.

1:52 PM

@samcarter: can we have ponytail hair too? <3

2:21 PM

@Nasser Write to the texlive list.

@UlrikeFischer: poked via message. :D

@PauloCereda saw it. Neat ;-)

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@Nasser Exactly what did you do? Did you just run the installer without setting the TEXDIR to something that is writable by you? I haven't had any issues with it and always installs as normal user

user image

Seems reasonable enough

1 hour later…

4:03 PM

@Nasser no you do not need to be root.

@DavidCarlisle ooh born to be ~~rooot~~ wild

@Nasser and you are installing tug's texlive not the ubuntu/debian one?

@daleif TEXDIR? What is that. I never heard of it. There is no mention of TEXDIR on the web page. tug.org/texlive/quickinstall.html. I was following the exact directions. Download tar.gz to my home folder. untar. went to the folder created and typed ./install-tl exactly as it says. The instruction do not say anything about TEXDIR. And I get error about permission error. When I did sudo ./install-tl the error did not show. I've done this 100 times before. Always as root though.

@DavidCarlisle The TEXLIVE one. Not debian.

@Nasser the default installation location is /usr/local/texlive/2018 so you need write access to that or specify a non-default location

@DavidCarlisle may be on ubuntu 18.04 they changed protection on /usr/local? I do not know.

4:06 PM

@Nasser you wouldn't normally have write access as a normal user

@DavidCarlisle Ok. This is my point then. If user is not allowed to write to /usr/local/ and this is where texlive installs, then why it says on web page that one do not need to use sudo?

@Nasser that's exactly what it says on the install page: Of course, you need to have permission to write into the destination directory

@Nasser I have installed tex more than once, and never used sudo to do so

@Nasser Install it somewhere else :)

@DavidCarlisle But this is all wrong. installation writes to folder that needs sudo, but then it says one does not need to use sudo.

@Nasser No, that's just the default: you can change it

4:10 PM

but instruction does not say that! That is my point.

@Nasser For example, for automated testing we (LaTeX team) do exactly that: non-root installation in a 'scratch' location

@Nasser they say exactly that

@Nasser *nix users are expected to be able to work this sort of thing out

@Nasser The installer does tell you to pick somewhere else: pretty clear ...

Meanwhile, I found the perfect soundtrack for ~~my secret TUG 2018 documentary~~ non-documentary endeavours. :)

@PauloCereda Cool

4:12 PM

@DavidCarlisle I do not see where it says this.

Running the installer
You do not need to be root (administrator on Windows) to install, use, or manage TeX Live. Indeed, we recommend installing it as a normal user, except perhaps on MacOSX, where it's conventional to install as administrator. (Some information about shared installations.) Of course, you need to have permission to write into the destination directory, but TeX Live itself does not care if you are root or not.

So, once you have the software, run the install-tl script to install (on Windows, install-tl-windows), like this:

@Nasser it says you do not need to be root and you do need write access to teh installation directory, both of those things are true

@JosephWright Hope you guys like funk. :D

@PauloCereda Is it Jurassic Park?

@Nasser in that interface you just type D to change it, in the GUI there is a button you can click to change ot.

@JosephWright I am gonna throw you off the Sugarloaf. :)

4:12 PM

@Nasser it says Of course, you need to have permission to write into the destination directory

@DavidCarlisle No reply yet to my missive

@JosephWright so I guessed (mind you departmental admin probably have no idea who to ask:-)

@DavidCarlisle very unfriendly instructions. Why not tell exactly the user what they need to do and what to check? How is user supposed to know where installation is supposed to write to before running it? Any way. I install as sudo all the time. I just think the instructions could be improved allot.

@DavidCarlisle That was what I thought too: I have no idea how our admin staff would react

@DavidCarlisle For all I know, cl.cam.ac.uk is now managed centrally

@Nasser you could suggest improvements on texlive list, but don't suggest recommending installing via sudo

4:16 PM

@Nasser Unless you are running using a script, it doesn't matter if you get the info during the installer run ...

@JosephWright yes I thought the computer lab was more separate than the academic department but their web page all seems to be the same thing these days. Hopefully it'll reach someone though.

@JosephWright should we enable gh-pages on that historic version?

@DavidCarlisle I hadn't planned to, thought I suppose there is no harm in doing so: mainly wanted it so the history is 'self-contained'

@JosephWright did you see I added a texfaq link to an answer just now?

@DavidCarlisle If it's anything like here, the autonomy will be severely reduced

@DavidCarlisle Yup :)

@JosephWright I'm tempted to change that message (we nearly changed it in 1993 but ran out of space:-)

4:24 PM

@Nasser you shouldn't call an slightly unclear instruction "unfriendly". Write to the tex live list and suggest a better wording.

@yo' @marmot Preview image for reborn as duck:

user image

5

@samcarter ooh

@samcarter I guess he will then call all his macros \quack instead of \z. ;-)

2

@PauloCereda Could be enhanced by your ponytail idea :)

@samcarter :)

user image

WHO'S A GOOD SHARKY

4:33 PM

@PauloCereda BTW Does it count as ponytail, if I scale down a horsetail?

\begin{tikzpicture}[scale=0.5]
	\duck[horsetail]
\end{tikzpicture}

@samcarter LOL

@samcarter We need @barbarabeeton to offer an expert opinion on ponytails. :)

@PauloCereda -- she's much more authoritative concerning pigtails.

@barbarabeeton ooh pigtail it is, then. Please. :)

@samcarter ^^

5:13 PM

@PauloCereda Sadly, to me this looks like a dead sharky :-(

@marmot no he's alive. :)

@PauloCereda But why doesn't he move? (I can understand that he does not eat the diver because he just told him that he is stuffed with pineapple pizza ;)

@marmot it likes belly rubs. :)

5:33 PM

@marmot -- sadly, i agree with you. sharks have to keep moving, or they don't get enough water flowing over their gills to "breathe". and the fact that the diver is handling the gill slits reinforces that impression. (but what kind of shark is/was it? not a filter feeder, but doesn't look like it would have a strong bite either.)

A Zebra Shark Wont' Let This Diver Work

@barbarabeeton, @marmot ^^ the sharky bloke is alive! Phew!

@samcarter you are not a nice person:)

@DavidCarlisle because she forgot the beak?

5:50 PM

@CarLaTeX A duck without beak cannot eat pineapple pizza....

@CarLaTeX @samcarter I guess that @DavidCarlisle is just jealous because "Carlisle" also contains "Car" but nobody ever drew a car for him ;-)

@marmot Which may be a blessing in disguise

@marmot you should draw a monocromatical car

@CarLaTeX No, here we go: the Lisle Car show

@PauloCereda -- well, that's a relief! that shark is clearly not one of the speed demons, and probably isn't likely to take his/her dinner from the other inhabitants of the exhibit. thanks for finding the video.

@barbarabeeton :)

@marmot :):):)

6:38 PM

Think I’ll stay in Saturday.

Tweeted by _youhadonejob1 on June 13, 2018 at 6:38 PM

Hi mr. @StrongBad!

@PauloCereda that is Dr Strongbad

@StrongBad oh sorry :(

@PauloCereda where is everyone?

@StrongBad they are hidding. :)

7:07 PM

When a newbie ask a question they could be forced to choose answer before voting up/down... it seems like many of them simply confuse and just upvote.

@G.Bay that is a pretty good idea. First upvote of an answer on your question should add the tick and a pop up message saying if they don't want to accept the answer to remove it.

@DavidCarlisle Does "not a nice person" mean I'm a nice duck?

@samcarter I really don't know why that code is malworking. I simply copy/pasted it. I get an absolute strange output

@naphaneal Which beamer version do you have?

@naphaneal Oh, I just read your last comment. To clarify: the code from the questions produces the error, but my code works?

7:22 PM

says "locale rev. (vers.) 46705 (3.50)" in TL manager

@samcarter yes, yours works fine

@naphaneal Sorry, than I misunderstood you previously. The code from the questions "works" if I add \end{document}

And with "works" I mean that the title is inserted outside of a frame, which messes with numbering etc. but produces something resembling a pdf.

@samcarter no

@DavidCarlisle You are mean :)

@JosephWright what do you think of re-enabling google seach (see davidcarlisle.github.io/texfaq.github.io/FAQ-startup )

@samcarter yeah, I noticed that myself as well. and I do get a PDF as well, but still two titlepages and no follow up slide.

7:27 PM

Jun 29 '17 at 16:15, by Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle you are not mean :)

@naphaneal let me test something...

Jul 24 '17 at 15:28, by Paulo Cereda

@samcarter you are mean <3

@PauloCereda could you confirm the authenticity of the two quotes above

@DavidCarlisle The second clearly says that @samcarter is less than three in mean (whatever that means).

@naphaneal I just tested the code from the question with TL2017 and beamer 3.50 and I can't reproduce your problem. Very strange!

@samcarter ok, now I'm completely confused. recompiling it again after a restart of TXS it does work as expected. I'm guessing some ``.aux` file or TXS itself corrupts the output

7:33 PM

@DavidCarlisle I have to be honest, I was just waiting for Google to pick up the new site ...

@samcarter ok, just tried it again. take the QO's code. add \titlepage to the titleframe compile it, and I get two title frames, off set numbering and a following slide with page numbering 1/1. this is really mysterious

@DavidCarlisle As said in chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/38978660#38978660 I think that this chat is a place for active development of the English language and shifted the meaning - so nothing bad about this statement :)

@mickep I would not trust this math, chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/38978696#38978696 says that 3 < 3

@naphaneal You mean add \titlepage within the titlepage environment? Yes, this produces the problem you described. (but makes no sense to use)

7:49 PM

@JosephWright the old one was generated for tex.ac.uk, i generated a new one for texfaq.org and played around a bit with the styling so it fits in the sidebar

@samcarter yes, exactly.

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@DavidCarlisle If you feel it's useful, go for it

@JosephWright done

@JosephWright would be nice to get the ad free version but getting paperwork to qualify as a non profit accredited organisation looks like too much work

8:04 PM

@samcarter yeah, I see what my error was. I'm using a simple frame environment for my title frames. I forgot, that titleframe overloads \titlepage resp. \maketitle. thus it creates title page twice, as it regards it as being called twice in a row. silly me.

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle thanks google :-)

user image

@StefanKottwitz what did you search for?

@DavidCarlisle Better in the footer?

Stefan Kottwitz

@DavidCarlisle ligature

@DavidCarlisle I just assumed one would do site:texfaq.org <whatever> if wanting to find something ...

8:06 PM

@JosephWright the search box? don't think anyone would find it there

@JosephWright you may do that and so may i but i don't think real people do, they expect an on-site search box

@StefanKottwitz vvv

$ grep -l ligature *md
FAQ-charshift.md
FAQ-letterspace.md
FAQ-tfm.md
FAQ-whatenc.md

I suppose I could mess around with site maps and try to get google to index it a bit better...

@DavidCarlisle It will happen eventually ...

@JosephWright I expect so, although most of the site seems to be indexed so it's a bit odd it did't pick those up

@DavidCarlisle Seems so, e.g. google.com/…

@barbarabeeton you got a duck email. :)

@DavidCarlisle Did you have to decompose Umathcode data somewhere?

Stefan Kottwitz

8:20 PM

A really relevant site search. Only 4 hits, the most important stuff. google.com/search?rls=en&q=site%3Atex.co

@JosephWright ? there is some in bm, but maybe not the released version, let me see...

@JosephWright you mean this sort of thing?

% \begin{macro}{\bm@umathchar}
% \changes{v1.2a}{2016/02/27}
%      {Macro added}
% \changes{v1.2a}{2017/01/16}
%      {Test for zero table entry (\cs{boldmath}) added}
% Version of \verb|\bm@mathchar| for \verb|\Umathchar|, this is easier
% as no need to take apart the number, the match class and fam are provided
% as distinct arguments.

@DavidCarlisle Yes

that's the public version of bm

@DavidCarlisle I see: you don't have to work it out from \Umathcodenum unless you need to be expandable ...

@JosephWright at the time I was writing that the main issue was that the format that was returned changed every other week:-)

@JosephWright i originally thought I was going to need a lot more of that, but for now at least I've pretty much given up on bm for opentype fonts unicode-math \symbbf covers most of what's needed and bm really expects a bold math font to exist and they are rather rare beasts

8:32 PM

@DavidCarlisle I have a different beast in mind :)

@JosephWright so I guessed

@DavidCarlisle For siunitx v3, I want as far as possible to format numbers as you'd write them. The only issue is dealing with ,, where I need \mathord. So I need to check if the decimal marker is a single char token, and if so what it's mathcode is. That's OK in pdfTeX, but I need to get it right in Unicode engines

@JosephWright I must admit can't recall how it ended up but at the time xetex and luatex differed on what to do if the character was declared with mathcode or Umathcode or both, as in whether you could always just check Umathcode or whether you needed to check both

@DavidCarlisle I'm not seeing useful results :(

@JosephWright example?

8:39 PM

\Umathcharnumdef\test`,\relax
\edef\test{\meaning\test}
\show\test
\Umathcharnumdef\test`.\relax
\edef\test{\meaning\test}
\show\test

@DavidCarlisle ^^^ Both "0"0 (XeTeX)/"0"00 (LuaTeX)

> \test=macro:
->\Umathchar"0"00"00002C.
l.8 \show\test

?
> \test=macro:
->\Umathchar"0"00"00002E.
l.11 \show\test

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{unicode-math}

\begin{document}

\Umathcharnumdef\test`,\relax
\edef\test{\meaning\test}
\show\test
\Umathcharnumdef\test`.\relax
\edef\test{\meaning\test}
\show\test
\end{document}

@DavidCarlisle Exactly: no good :(

@JosephWright oh that's because you are testing the wrong thing

@JosephWright \Umathcharnumdef\test`,\relax is same as \Umathcharnumdef\test"2C

@JosephWright this better?

\edef\test{\the\Umathcode`,}
\show\test
\edef\test{\the\Umathcode`.}
\show\test

\bye

@JosephWright except that works in luatex but errors in xetex

@JosephWright this works in both

\edef\test{\the\Umathcodenum`,}
\show\test
\edef\test{\the\Umathcodenum`.}
\show\test

\bye

8:57 PM

@DavidCarlisle Well yes and no: it's different, but unlike \mathcode you can't just directly extract the math code ... have to sort out the appropriate calculation ...

Hi, I am trying to put a unit at the end of an equation while keeping only one equation number in the align environment. Here is what I mean:

user image

Minimal working example:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{siunitx}
\sisetup{detect-all}

\makeatletter
\providecommand\add@text{}
\newcommand\tagaddtext[1]{%
\gdef\add@text{#1\gdef\add@text{}}}%
\renewcommand\tagform@[1]{%
\maketag@@@{\llap{\add@text\quad}(\ignorespaces#1\unskip\@@italiccorr)}%
}
\makeatother

\begin{document}

\begin{align}
T(p) &:= W = \int_{0}^{p} \vec{F} d\vec{s} = \int_{0}^{p} m\frac{d\vec{v}}{dt} d\vec{s} = m \int_{0}^{v} \frac{\vec{s}}{dt} d\vec{v} \\&= m \int_{0}^{v} \vec{v} d\vec{v} = \frac{1}{2} m \vec{v}^2

For placing the units at the end I used the code from tex.stackexchange.com/a/166597/145516

Can anybody help me figuring out how to get the above working? I tried \nonumber behind the line break, but then the remaining number is centered between the equations which doesn't look good with the unit infront of it.

@philmcole if you put \notag or \nonumber on the first row that shouldn't change the position of teh number on the second row. To make a single centred number you's need a different markup, aligned inside equation

This is embarassing, I was just testing and it didn't seem to work but now I tried it again and it gives exactly the result. Thank you. :)

@philmcole perhaps I fixed it at a distance:-)

You did!

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