TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2018-01-19

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5:51 AM

@marmot It depends, for Italian duck is qua qua qua

2 hours later…

7:39 AM

@DavidCarlisle Looks the same as I get: mainly the discretionary and kern logging changes

@DavidCarlisle Testing against Lua5.3 is a little more complex: we could I guess as it to the same mechanism as is used for LuaJITTeX and make it look like the same engine. However, we only need to do that if there are issues with Lua code (which might well then be tested in other ways)

@JosephWright yes I might just leave my setup as it is (with luatex53-1.07 just copied into my local texlive 2017 bin as luatex) so I'm running texlua53 to drive l3build and testing against luatex53, so it should show up any differences....

I suspect that there will be user pressure for tl to have a lualatex53 out of the box once the luatex53 binary is there

Good morning to everybody.

@egreg Hi, Prof. In the mathematics I website I asked a very clear and simple question. I find it really unjust that the possibility of asking a clear and simple question is blocked. Even: on hold. When I was at university, they explained only 4 lessons of combinatorics without any exercise, and I do not know many conditions, formulas and reasoning. Could you, kindly, help me?

@egreg This is my question math.stackexchange.com/questions/2607487/….

@egreg I also asked Bernard, who courteously and very kindly, helped me remove the ban.

8:19 AM

@DavidCarlisle Probably for the sort of people who use Lua heavily, yes, though not for those just wanting system fonts, etc.

@DavidCarlisle I'm slightly surprised the TL people didn't just make the switch this year

@DavidCarlisle I get no additional failures with Lua 5.3 compared to Lua 5.2

@DavidCarlisle lua.org/versions.html doesn't suggest a lot of difference for most users (the Unicode support is basic)

@DavidCarlisle I can see things like luaotfload picking up on some of the detail (lua.org/manual/5.3/readme.html#changes), though I suspect they'll be conservative in Lua version requirements

@JosephWright yes I was just looking at the manual that got build with luatex 5.3 and there isn't much lua 5.3 stuff there really, so I suppose main difference is which external lua modules work.

@DavidCarlisle How can one find out if lua 5.2 oder lua 5.3 is inside?

@UlrikeFischer \directlua{print(lua.version)}\bye

@DavidCarlisle Yes, or if you do some more complex manipulations

@DavidCarlisle I was going to test for string.pack :)

@JosephWright I read the documentation!

5

8:27 AM

@DavidCarlisle table.move sounds handy ...

Quack! :)

@DavidCarlisle /gasp

@JosephWright I hope there is nothing in 5.3. that lets luaotfload fail ;-(. I will install the exp-version and try out some examples later.

@UlrikeFischer context is using luatex53 by default so presumably if there are issues porting the latest font loader from there will fix, but our (not very extensive) tests of opentype font loading seem to work

@UlrikeFischer There really shouldn't be, based on the Lua changes

@UlrikeFischer Initial tests are all 'works for me'

@DavidCarlisle All true: probably that's where any pressure to update will come from

@UlrikeFischer I think only a few things changed between versions, and it should be backwards compatbile. :)

8:43 AM

@JosephWright I think it's going to be a pain though, It's easy for Hans/Luigi to suggest dropping a luatex85 binary on texlive but unless texlive adds the symlinks/copies as lualatex53 texlua53, ... it's not really usable by people and if texlive does that, all the IDE's like texworks will need configurations to pick it up, then presumably next year it all gets removed and everything updates to lua 5.3 (or 5.4 or whatever)...

@JosephWright .. I was wondering if it would be better if texlive had a configuration option to do what I just did by hand of making luatex be luatex 53 and so all the symlinks use 5.3 under the existing names such as texlua

@DavidCarlisle I'll mail you

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Mar 26 '12 at 19:37, by David Carlisle

@Canageek moral of the story: never read the documentation, bad things happen

@HaraldHanche-Olsen hmmm reflexive property

@DavidCarlisle yes, but I don't have the impression that there is someone who could port the latest font loader. Philipp didn't do anything for nearly a year and while one can use the context font loader directly currently it could easily happen that some future font loader is no longer compatible with the luaotfload wrapper.

@UlrikeFischer strangely enough, I had someone in mind

@UlrikeFischer or we finally manage to get harfbuzz to do the font loading.

8:54 AM

@DavidCarlisle Erm, who? (I have looked at this a bit before ...)

@JosephWright it's a secret but initials UF

@UlrikeFischer Probably longer-term we need to sort out a wrapper which works directly with the ConTeXt version: whilst Hans doesn't like the idea, the ConTeXt loader effectively is part of the engine (the idea that everyone goes off and writes their own font loader code is not realistic)

@DavidCarlisle That would be good, though I guess the issue then is getting changes made ... on the other hand, if we find issues in HarfBuzz and report them, we help a lot more people than just TeX users

@UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle Probably one for email ...

Urs Freuler (born 6 November 1958 in Bilten, Canton of Glarus) is a Swiss cyclist, who raced professionally between 1980 and 1997, during which he won 124 victories. He was named Swiss Sports Personality of the Year in 1982 and 1983. He was born in Bilten. As an amateur, he was the champion of his country in several categories and also achieved fame in international competitions. He was a racer of great speed, who participated both in road races as well as track cycling. In the latter, he was the world champion in the keirin twice and the points race eight times and victor in 21 six-day races....

@JosephWright for no particular reason I have a watch on the hb github, changes get made every day :-)

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle Wasn't quite what I was getting at

9:00 AM

@JosephWright no but given that Khaled and JK are so active there, there may be a good appreciation of related change requests

@DavidCarlisle Ah right, I see your point

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer Mail coming up

The best abstracts are short and to the point.

Tweeted by AcademiaObscura on January 19, 2018 at 8:45 AM

3

@DavidCarlisle ^^

~~Still longer than my thesis~~ Interesting.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda I know of at least one PhD thesis whose abstract is 50% longer (not counting punctuation): “Yes.” And that was not in reference to the title, as this one was.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Really? That's cool. :)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda And the shortest paper title I know of: “H=W”. (By Meyers and Serrin, PNAS 1964)

9:09 AM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda fortunately no more papers of that nature have appeared, or the whole English alphabet would be compressed to a single letter.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen :)

@HaraldHanche-Olsen: I remember this story:

International Journal of Advanced Computer Technology

The International Journal of Advanced Computer Technology is a publication which has been described as a predatory open access journal – a publication which has some of the surface attributes of a benign open access journal but is actually an exploitative and deceptive corruption of that model, operating as a disreputable vanity press with little scholarly value. == Publication controversy == In 2005, two scientists, David Mazières and Eddie Kohler, wrote a paper titled Get me off Your Fucking Mailing List and submitted it to WMSCI 2005 (the 9th World Multiconference on Systemics, Cybernetics...

scs.stanford.edu/~dm/home/papers/remove.pdf

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda It's a classic, yes.

@PauloCereda There's also a math paper published consisting of a single figure. Not one word, other than the author's name and perhaps some references. And the title, of course: Something like “A proof of [someone]'s conjecture”.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Here's a (possibly unicode related) question: Why do the angle brackets ‘〈’ and ‘〉’ come with such big spaces? (I did not type a space between those quotes. That space is part of the character!)

Oh, wait. I guess I found the answer: They're in the section CJK Symbols and Punctuation. I suppose the spacing is right for that context.

But (thanks to @barbarabeeton probably) we have the pair ⟨⟩
U+27E8 MATHEMATICAL LEFT ANGLE BRACKET and U+27E9 MATHEMATICAL RIGHT ANGLE BRACKET to use instead.

9:34 AM

@DavidCarlisle Mail sent

@UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle Mail sent :)

@JosephWright I like how you quote the word 'fun'. :)

@PauloCereda Numberphile did a video on short papers: youtube.com/watch?v=QvvkJT8myeI

@TorbjørnT. ooh thanks, I will take a look. :)

10:05 AM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen not forgetting the now deprecated U+2329 and U+232A (it's a long story:-)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@DavidCarlisle Ah, this deprecation notice tells part of the story at least: “These characters are deprecated and are strongly discouraged for mathematical use because of their canonical equivalence to CJK punctuation.”

10:37 AM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen yes, they were the html &lang; and &rang; entities in html prior to html5, I managed to get those entities changed to U+27e8 and U+27e9 but changing entity definitions in html is a scary business so it wasn't universally popular:-) (the normalisation to the CJK versions was essentially added by mistake but unicode stability rules meant that they would prefer to add the new mathematical versions without that normalisation than remove the normalisation once it had been added

11:18 AM

Our entertainment for the evening: twitter.com/wspr/status/954297951588777984

@WillRobertson ooh

@WillRobertson and I thought it would be an exciting evening in with Lua 5.3

11:49 AM

@DavidCarlisle ˙ɐᴉlɐɹʇsn∀ uᴉ ǝʇᴉsoddo ǝɥʇ op ʎǝɥ┴

Anyone around to help reopening tex.stackexchange.com/questions/411069/… ? I'd like to add an answer.

@PauloCereda now remind me, which hemisphere are you in?

@samcarter voted

@DavidCarlisle oh

@DavidCarlisle Thank you!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@samcarter It's open.

12:15 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen thanks!

12:58 PM

user image

1 hour later…

2:14 PM

holla, CTAN upload form is still unavailable?

no

it is ok

3:08 PM

Hey all

Yo @PauloCereda!

Hey @TorbjørnT.

3:24 PM

@Alenanno Hi! How are you?

@PauloCereda Good, thanks! :D you?

@Alenanno In a hurry, as always, with an unfinished (and never ending) thesis, but fine. :) Quack. :)

Oh good luck! :D

3:42 PM

I am already using the other answer to realize my idea, and if I am honest, I can't exactly see how this is supposed to be easier. Nevermind, thank you for your help! — n20 19 mins ago

@JosephWright @WillRobertson glyph_not_found callback looks an interesting possibility if nothing else could make a real error instead of log message, but could also presumably find a glyph in some other font...

I think one of the next Quack Guides will be on tikz-cd ^^^

@DavidCarlisle Oooh

@CarLaTeX I would have provided a tikz-cd solution as well, to be honest.

@Alenanno Me too! Much easier!

3:50 PM

0

Q: Who plans to go TUG 2018 in Rio de Janeiro?

Hello ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, ducks and mallards, marmots and capybaras, children of all ages! The 39th Annual Meeting of the TeX Users Group (TUG 2018) will be held in the awesome city of Rio de Janeiro, from July 20 to 22, as an official satellite conference of International Co...

5

@PauloCereda Any idea when fees will be announced?

@JosephWright Hopefully in a few days. I will keep you all informed.

@PauloCereda but Argentina is such a long way away...

@DavidCarlisle don't you start. :)

@PauloCereda Hablo bien español

4:01 PM

@DavidCarlisle Muy bien, señor Carlisle. :)

@PauloCereda you see: my Geography is as good as my language skills

4:19 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen for short papers there is always

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1311997/bin/jaba00061-0143.tif

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1311997/?page=1

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@StrongBad Those are classics too, yes.

4:53 PM

@PauloCereda Checking my flight costs ...

Is here someone with a network drive who could test something?

5:38 PM

Is there any pdf reader for windows that would let me replace the mouse pointer -- often a hand ;-( -- w/ something more appropriate for full-screen presentations (like the laser pointer option in powerpoint)?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

6:17 PM

@UlrikeFischer What OS, and what kind of network drive?

6:28 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen the report I have is about miktex, so windows. They have problems when they compile in texworks a file which inputs a file (e.g. a graphic) which is in the same (network) folder. From the log it looks as if the folder is not the current folder. I would like to know if this is miktex or texworks specific.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen When everything is moved to a local folder there is no problem.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@UlrikeFischer Ah. I can't help, then.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen can you check on another OS?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Only macOS. And this evening, only with sshfs. But right now, I am off to eat something.

1 hour later…

Phelype Oleinik

7:35 PM

@ChristianHupfer I didn't want to ask in the post to avoid pollution, but your statement about KOMA got me curious... Why is that?

Christian Hupfer

7:52 PM

@PhelypeOleinik: I don't like it. That's pretty well known here.

Phelype Oleinik

8:21 PM

@ChristianHupfer Ah :)

8:37 PM

@PauloCereda are you around, please?

2 hours later…

10:09 PM

@PauloCereda, @DavidCarlisle Checking out flights ...

10:30 PM

@PauloCereda I hope you don't mind that I misuse your meta question to post a "job" advertisement :)

10:58 PM

@JosephWright YAY

@samcarter That's great! Thank you!

@JosephWright: speaking of Arthurs, how about our Arthur? Haven't heard from him in a while...

@PauloCereda Not heard, sorry

@JosephWright I will poke him by mail.

@JosephWright How are the prices?

@PauloCereda About £900 if I go from Heathrow, more like £1100 if I go from Norwich (work), but I don't have to go to London to do that so it works out much the same

@PauloCereda KLM either way

@JosephWright Wow

@JosephWright No British Airways?

@PauloCereda BA is a bit more, but to be honest I'd rather go KLM

@PauloCereda Given the fact this is not 'work', going from Norwich is advantageous

@PauloCereda BA have cut a lot of stuff: don't know about long-haul, but short-haul they're not my first choice (depending on the route)

@PauloCereda Did go BA to Zürich recently: out from London City, worked quite well. But that was slightly unusual

11:11 PM

BA is quite expensive checking from my end.

@PauloCereda Cheapest BA flight would be nearly £1200, mean changing in Madrid and having to get to Heathrow

@JosephWright Oh no, Barajas! :)

@JosephWright: preferably choose at max 1 stop.

The trip is already long and tiresome per se.

@PauloCereda KLM from Norwich is pretty easy: NWI - AMS is about 30 minutes flight time and I've done it several times, then it's direct AMS - GIG

@JosephWright Phew

@PauloCereda Plus I get a very short check in at Norwich (it's a small airport), and it's only 15 minutes by taxi from my flat ...

11:17 PM

@JosephWright Interesting

@PauloCereda Comes down to whether KLM are competitive for the 'main' flight: here they are, so it makes sense to go that way. For the US it's different ...

@JosephWright How many days do you plan staying in Rio?

@PauloCereda I'll need to see what other team members plan, but as this is holiday days for me, likely I'll only do Thursday to Sunday (flight is at something like 2130)

@JosephWright I plan staying at least 6 days in Rio, but I will probably have to fly back to SP in 23/07 or 24/07.

@PauloCereda First I need to see what costs look like, then talk to the rest of the team, then decide :)

11:21 PM

@JosephWright 4 days? Is it worth?

@PauloCereda Need to work out the monies

@JosephWright Ah understood

@PauloCereda Have some colleagues who went to China for three days ...

@JosephWright I need to find good beer houses, we will have at least 4 Germans with us. :)

@PauloCereda Like I said, this is coming out of my days off

@PauloCereda Indeed

11:23 PM

@JosephWright Honestly, I'd do the same. I don't like being out of my comfort zone. :)

@PauloCereda Oh, the China business was driven by work needs

@JosephWright Ah now I got it

@PauloCereda I might stay until the Monday ... not sure I want to dash straight back

@PauloCereda I might see if I can fit in any 'real' work (we have some connections in Sao Paulo)

@JosephWright And your colleagues won't believe you came back from Rio without a tan (in my case, as my skin is very pale, I look like a red shrimp after some sun exposure).

@JosephWright Cool, local flights are very doable.

@PauloCereda Oh they will: I don't do tans, really

11:26 PM

In my case, I will probably fly from/to Campinas instead of SP. It's closer home.

And I want to avoid CGH and GRU

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