TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2017-03-17

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David Carlisle

00:04

@Akiva partial could be pronounced partial or more commonly just d ln is normally pronounced log (or "natural logarithm" if you really want to spell it out)

Akiva

@DavidCarlisle Thank you so much. I'll say Natural Log, and partial

David Carlisle

@FrankMittelbach oops, I can do that I guess, not tonight though

Akiva

@DavidCarlisle Welp, that fixes this equation: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamic_integration -- Takes forever to read out :P

David Carlisle

@FrankMittelbach although the heading code probably ought to cope better with the para starting in a group, starting the paragraph with \textbf{This} would be the same wouldn't it?

wilx

00:34

github.com/wilx/project-uspace/pull/1#issuecomment-287220595

^ What is he trying to tell me? That should revert the truncation of the lengths?

2 hours later…

Kurzd

02:41

Is there any difference between loading a beamer layout theme and then a color theme or doing it the other way around?

2 hours later…

RationalHusky

04:19

Hi, does anyone here have experience with Vim-latex? I'm trying to compile with \ll but it seems to ignoring the variable "g:Tex_DefaultTargetFormat" and I can't figure out why.

2 hours later…

Joseph Wright

06:29

@DavidCarlisle I say 'lon' for ln but I'm not a mathematician ...

Frank Mittelbach

07:15

@DavidCarlisle if we have done it right then no it shouldn't but perhaps it is an an issue found more often. \textbf is ok .. \leavevmode beofre starting any group

1 hour later…

Joseph Wright

08:35

@egreg Could you check your GMail spam just in case the team messages have gone there?

Sebastiano

@JosephWright Good day Joseph

egreg

@JosephWright That was it!

Sebastiano

@egreg, @DavidCarlisle, @TorbjørnT. @Christian Hupfer, Good morning from SIcily

David Carlisle

@FrankMittelbach oh not \textbf` then but {\bfseries that} zzz certainly starts the paragraph in a group

egreg

@JosephWright But I guess I did damage and so now I have lost them

David Carlisle

08:44

@JosephWright normally it would be pronounced (and spelled as) log I think I always think of ln as an invention of pocket calculators. But even when spelled as ln I'd pronounce it as log or log-base-e if necessary.

Sebastiano

Thanks ever so much for your help to everybody

egreg

@JosephWright I don't like gmail at all.

Joseph Wright

@egreg My email (morningstar2) is currently being back-ended by GMail: I use a proper client so apart from needing occasionally to check for spam errors I don't actually use the web interface ... after a bit of training it seems to recognise most of the lists I'm on

CarLaTeX

@GustavoMezzetti Ah, it seemed to me to have seen a comment... but afterwards I didn't find it... I thought I had a mirage!

David Carlisle

@JosephWright we probably need to get more opentype math tests into testfiles-TU...... Bump version number to 0.99997 for first hb-math-based release.

Dai Bowen

08:57

@RationalHusky What do you have g:Tex_DefaultTargetFormat set to? What is happening when you press \ll and what do you want to be happening?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Like I say, I'm not a mathematician so I only know what physical scientists do: for us 'log' would always mean base-10

David Carlisle

@JosephWright you probably always work in feet and inches and measure angles in degrees as well:-)

David Carlisle

09:46

@FrankMittelbach I was going to ask why we globally set the nobreak flag but locally set clubpenalty but I see Leslie's original comments say clubpenalty is globally switched ELSE \clubpenalty :=G \@clubpenalty (but the code already that way in latex2.09 in 1991 ftp.tug.org/historic/macros)

David Carlisle

09:58

@JosephWright @egreg you can inherit blame ^^

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle off hand, no idea but likely there is more than one subtle reason - we could see what the regression test suite does if changed but it seems to me a dangerous area to meddle

@DavidCarlisle true explicit groups at para begin have the same issue, but they are kind of understandable \includegraphics is a bit of a surprise

David Carlisle

@FrankMittelbach no I was going to say, not suggesting changing the afterheading code after all this time (might change the comments though so they match the code for the first time in 25 years:-)

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle really? that much progress? :-)

David Carlisle

@FrankMittelbach with etex you could detect with \currentgrouplevel that the paragraph was starting at a different group than the previous heading (but it's probably not safe to touch this at all, too many packages using this code in too many places)

2 hours later…

Joseph Wright

12:19

@egreg So you are on the list? (I've pointed out to Rainer that your work email may be preferred)

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle that's conceptually a method one might want to use, but as you say I dn#t think it is something that should be touched in 2e

egreg

12:50

@JosephWright Probably so

David Carlisle

@JosephWright ping Bruno:-)

@David Carlisle @Ulrike Fischer: I am impressed! Happy to make do with the fix of loading randomwalk before frenchb. The finer points of the implementation of randomwalk aside, I find Bruno Le Floch's package a wonderful example of expl3 coding, one that has opened up surprising aspects and possibilities of expl3 I could never have dreamed of. Wish I had stumbled over randomwalk 2 years ago. Apologies for waxing lyrical! — Reinhard Neuwirth 10 mins ago

yo'

13:07

@DavidCarlisle :)

David Carlisle

13:27

@FrankMittelbach I faked the test result, I'll update the code so it passes later

barbara beeton

@egreg -- in response to a comment regarding the style of "differential d" in How should imaginary numbers be typeset?, i uncovered an 1890 article (in acta mathematica) that clearly shows italic. in the same article, the i is used (p.89), also italic. you're welcome to refer to that in your answer to the same question (unless i'm mistaken about the meaning of i there).

egreg

13:45

@barbarabeeton Thanks for the pointer: I added a comment and a couple of images.

barbara beeton

@egreg -- hurrah! looks great.

egreg

14:03

@barbarabeeton I also added an image of the paper referred to by Andrew Swann in comments to another answer.

Here is an image (click here) of the paper Andrew Swann is referring to (cropped to avoid copyright issues). — egreg 4 mins ago

barbara beeton

@egreg -- cool! will that image persist, if it's not directly in a question or answer?

egreg

@barbarabeeton I hope so.

@barbarabeeton But I'll add it also to my answer.

barbara beeton

@egreg -- good idea. (of course i think the century-plus example is more "authoritative", but some people are going to rely on "modern" standards regardless of evidence to the contrary.)

egreg

@barbarabeeton Next, the logarithm. ;-)

@barbarabeeton But I guess that convincing people that “log” can only mean “natural logarithm” will be more difficult.

Joseph Wright

14:20

@egreg Impossible ;)

egreg

@JosephWright For whom doesn't know mathematics.

Joseph Wright

@egreg Well I don't think a pH scale using base-e would be that convenient ...

egreg

@JosephWright Why? It's just a different scale.

Joseph Wright

@egreg Doing the interchange between the log and the concentration it relates to in ones head would be somewhat harder ...

@egreg I'm sure pure mathematicians can do this, but not us mere mortal scientists

barbara beeton

@egreg -- if i remember correctly (it's been a long time), there was a clear distinction made between log and ln when calculating points for plotting an equation. (spent a couple of summers plotting profiles of wind tunnel tests.)

egreg

14:23

@JosephWright A pity Sørensen didn't ask a mathematician.

@barbarabeeton I think the “ln” thing was born in the US. In Italy, the decimal logarithm was customarily denoted by “Log” (capital L).

barbara beeton

@egreg -- looking in the nist "guide for the use of the international system of units", i've come upon a passage that specifies notation for various kinds of logs that i don't remember seeing before ...

user image

especially the "lb" would confuse me thoroughly!

wilx

14:47

@barbarabeeton That is the same we have been taught in HS here.

yo'

@barbarabeeton haha, lg x is sometimes used as an equivalent of ln x :)

To me, the only fixed one is ln, all the other ones I ignore :)

Paulo Cereda

15:03

BL sent me the paper, yay!

I <3 UK

egreg

@yo' Or else base 2 logarithm

yo'

15:36

@egreg where I teach, log without base is log10

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I'm further improving my language skills: my husband ordered cards for a MacBeth in cantonese shakespeare-festival.de/de/programm/2017/macbeth--716

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer OH NO, DON'T MENTION THE SCOTTISH PLAY

@JosephWright ^^ :)

@UlrikeFischer: a quick reference to Blackadder. :)

CarLaTeX

15:54

@egreg guess which has been the main topic of the office talks this afternoon...

David Carlisle

16:24

@UlrikeFischer 簡單！

Paulo Cereda

16:45

@JosephWright: I cited you in Instagram. :)

Is the TUG election over?

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda yes, it's leaving the EU.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Oh.

Sebastiano

Good afternoon to everybody

yo'

> All voting will close on April 9. The results will be announced by April 16.

Paulo Cereda

@yo' ooh thanks Tom

Sebastiano

16:53

@DavidCarlisle my greetings arrived?

David Carlisle

@Sebastiano ? presumably that wasn't a reply to the comment that you linked to?

Sebastiano

@PauloCereda привет дорогой друг

@DavidCarlisle No David.

Paulo Cereda

@Sebastiano I am sorry, I don't know Russian.

Sebastiano

@PauloCereda привет дорогой друг I have used google translate :)

David Carlisle

@Sebastiano you can always start a new comment just with a normal @ ping. But which greeting do you mean, You seem to usually say hello when landing in the room but such messages don't "arrive" they just appear in real time, unless you mean you sent an email?

Christian Hupfer

16:57

@Sebastiano: да

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda Каждый должен знать несколько русских

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Cricket is a candidate for inclusion in Unicode 10.0 scheduled

Sebastiano

This morning before starting school activity I sent greetings from the chat: I put the @ symbol

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle: Do something about it, please.

David Carlisle

@Sebastiano if there are 7 people active in chat and each pings the other a greeting that's several screenfulls of messages, it makes no sense:-) If you want to say hello when arriving that's fine but no need to ping individuals or expect pings back.

@PauloCereda have you finished your thesis?

Paulo Cereda

17:01

@DavidCarlisle oh no

David Carlisle

@Sebastiano see ^^^ an example of a pertinent question, with a ping:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oy

Sebastiano

@DavidCarlisle I have not understand :( sorry

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda I couldn't think of another example

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle :)

Christian Hupfer

17:04

@Sebastiano Я говорю только немного по-русски

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle s/another/a better/g

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda nope I was right the first time

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh :)

Paulo Cereda

17:23

@UlrikeFischer, @Johannes_B, @ChristianHupfer: I just found out an old cartoon I used to watch on TV is German! It's Oma Bitte Kommen.

Sebastiano

@DavidCarlisle I'm sorry David'm having problems of line with Infostrada to my friend's house. Perhaps I understand the issue of ping.

@ChristianHupfer Hiii dear friend

@DavidCarlisle @PauloCereda @ChristianHupfer in the meantime I'm cleaning her computer from viruses. I greet all of ciaoooooooo

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Die Oma wird nicht kommen ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer ooh

Johannes_B

@PauloCereda Never heard of this.

Paulo Cereda

17:40

@Johannes_B Really? Oh my.

Johannes_B

@PauloCereda To be honest, i am afraid to google this. Maybe @ChristianHupfer can guess why >:-)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda ooh is that the one that gives out gold badges and rep?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle I see what you did there. :)

David Carlisle

Can anyone with a mac get to the bottom of why tex.stackexchange.com/questions/358996/… keeps coming up

Christian Hupfer

@Johannes_B I have no idea what it could be...

Paulo Cereda

17:56

@Johannes_B it's an old cartoon.

@Johannes_B: probably not as old as @DavidCarlisle. :)

Ulrike Fischer

18:09

@DavidCarlisle I don't have a mac but I do have the impression that all affected users use basictex and not a full texlive.

egreg

18:23

@UlrikeFischer I've never understood why using basic instead of the full MacTeX. Nowadays 4GiB are not a problem. It used to be when I installed a 4MiB TeX distribution (OzTeX) on a 20MiB hard drive.

Ulrike Fischer

@egreg Well I don't think that it is a question of space. Download time is probably more the cause. Also "basic" sounds simpler and more friendly and so probably more attractive to new users ears.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer seems that way.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg ooh I wonder if my thesis can be typeset in that space!

@DavidCarlisle ^^

egreg

@PauloCereda Surely so. No TikZ, I'm afraid, but there was PiCTeX

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Oh. :(

David Carlisle

18:33

@PauloCereda and of course picture mode

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle yay

2 hours later…

Torbjørn T.

20:22

About tex.stackexchange.com/questions/359012/…, is there a way of getting \pdffilemoddate with xelatex?

Canageek

20:34

Is there a way of putting the filename into the output with LaTeX?

I know someone who wants that for version tracking

TeXnician

@Canageek Do you want the whole path or just something like you get with \jobname?

Ulrike Fischer

@Canageek see the currfile package

Canageek

Thanks

@TeXnician I'll check, asking for a coworker

@TeXnician \jobname is perfect, I think

Joseph Wright

20:58

@TorbjørnT. No

Torbjørn T.

21:12

@JosephWright That's what I thought, thanks.

2 hours later…

David Carlisle

23:39

@PauloCereda not sure if you can see these from outside the UK, but see the third new addition....

bbc.co.uk/news/world-39308622

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Mar '1717

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