news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/06/…

^^ someone please save me from this country. :(

How would you plot the cycles of this graph marked with red?

Some circular loops there? I am trying to show the duality between cycles and paths.

@PauloCereda: Still some days to go ... for the Great Duck Giveaway.... I wonder if I will succeed in the range from 1 to 200 set of numbers containing 42 and 108 ;-)

@ChristianHupfer isn't the range 0 to 201 ?

@DavidCarlisle Using some British mapping from 1 to 200 to the range from 0 to 201? Yes ;-)

@DavidCarlisle Short question about classes.dtx and titlepage (we talked about this before). In compat mode, the page number is reset to zero, which is wrong because it is printed as a right hand page (classes.dtx). It indeed prints a right hand page, but shouldn't it be left? Ah, nevermind, twoside was missing. Silly me.

\documentstyle[twoside,
showframe]{report}
\begin{document}
\author{Wombat}
\title{\thepage}
\maketitle
\end{document}

@Johannes_B glad to have helped:-)

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@DavidCarlisle Just looking at a thesis template setting the page number to zero, the page style to empty and \renewcommand{\thepage}{i}.

@DavidCarlisle I know

@DavidCarlisle On the TL testing business, do you think the structure I've suggested makes sense? An alternative would be a single directory with a series of sub-dirs for each format, and a series of Lua scripts to call them (as we have in the dir for l3build itself, where we have some LaTeX tests and some plain ones)

@DavidCarlisle Aside: I should arrange that the plain tests get run ...

@JosephWright bit hard to say at present, depends a bit how contributing tests work, do people set up their own directory or just add them in as test files in the current directories. having it auto-select the format would be nice though we had that issue with ltluatex tests where looked (with no great success as I recall) of using the first line magic comments to select the format. Perhaps sub-directories per format and then a top level build check runs then all would be better....

@DavidCarlisle Quite possibly

Isn't that off topic?

@JosephWright did you see Karl tricked me into fixing some ancient hyperref issues and I broke cleverref?

@DavidCarlisle I do wonder if we might need first-line parsing ourselves to allow more 'tricks' (it's easy enough for Lua to read the first line of each .lvt)

@DavidCarlisle No?

@Johannes_B Yes: I've closed

@JosephWright Ok, thanks.

@DavidCarlisle I think dividing the tests up by format is OK: either of my suggested approaches need that. Auto-detecting the required format is much more likely to cause confusion :-) (The only obvious advantage is one only needs one big list of tests)

@DavidCarlisle More improvements for l3build coming up ...

@ChristianHupfer :)

When you build a template. @Johannes, @Christian ^^ :)

@PauloCereda Oh my god, what if this guy attacks you with a banana ? ;-)

@ChristianHupfer fresh fruits are dangerous! :)

@PauloCereda I'll look for a 16-ton-weight at Ebay ;-)

@ChristianHupfer don't you dare. :)

@PauloCereda Oh, I dare :-P

I have to go, driving home... till later on

@ChristianHupfer see ya, pal!

@PauloCereda Should I add Groucho Marx's immortal quote about bananas? :)

@egreg Yes, please. :)

@PauloCereda “Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana”

@egreg :)

@DavidCarlisle Mumble, need to normalise out the new \special line that your driver changes make :-)

Now it's in the official release!

\documentclass[
  paper=a4,
  egregdoesnotlikesansseriftitles,
]{scrbook}

\begin{document}

\chapter{Test}

Good!

\end{document}

@egreg Wow. I'm impressed ;-)

@egreg LOLOLOL

@UlrikeFischer Markus' sense of humor is peculiar

texmf-dist/tex/latex/koma-script/scrextend.sty
303:\KOMA@ifkey{egregdoesnotlikesansseriftitles}{@egregdoesnotlikesansseriftitles}
305:  \if@egregdoesnotlikesansseriftitles\else\sffamily\fi

@egreg Well I'm mentioned somewhere in a commit message with "Ulrike findet es blöd, dass ..."

@UlrikeFischer Of course he doesn't find it's blöd. ;-)

@egreg Is this the German word for blood, right? :)

@PauloCereda Not quite

@PauloCereda Don't you know the famous Strauss waltz “Wiener Blut”?

@JosephWright think of it as progress

@egreg ooh

@PauloCereda youtube.com/watch?v=V1vk3LcOsc4

@egreg Awesome!

@egreg: my playlist is playing this:

I know you are not a big fan of Chopin, but the music is nice. :)

@DavidCarlisle Looks like the LaTeX team will more-or-less end up testing all of TeX Live :-)

@DavidCarlisle Guess I'll fill Frank et al. in at the meeting

@JosephWright looks that way

@JosephWright s/LaTeX team/you/ :-)

@DavidCarlisle Oh, I've just take Frank/Chris/your stuff and made minor adjustments :-)

@DavidCarlisle Seriously, though, Frank will I think approve of the plan

@JosephWright having some testing would be good. we have a lot of success with jenkins CI over svn here (but we do have someone watching it more or less full time, we trigger a lot of jobs on a lot of machines:-)

@DavidCarlisle I had a feeling Jenkins would be the way to go with SVN

@JosephWright or mirror to gh and use travis, as for l3?

@DavidCarlisle That also occurred to me (also for L2e, but there's no big push there to do such things)

@JosephWright tl might anyway be a bit big to use in a setup that needs to build a vm from scratch every time, can't really use the minimal tl install approach you use for l3 if the plan is to test it all. But as you say need to get a test system working first before thinking about CI

@JosephWright and persuade everyone not to use python/tcl/perl/whatever...

@DavidCarlisle Well a CI would expect to clone the repo then build everything, which for TL would be a long job. Norbert's plan (just test the .tex side, do that on the server, do it using cron) all sounds fine to me

@DavidCarlisle I think Norbert is pretty convinced, plus we are at the advantage we already have a test system

@DavidCarlisle PDF-based testing is still slightly tricky as only pdfTeX makes PDFs that are identical cross-platform, but presumably that's the sort of thing that will get fixed as part of the wider work here

[tohecz@toheshiba ~]$ man xetex
No manual entry for xetex
[tohecz@toheshiba ~]$ man xelatex
No manual entry for xelatex

^^ seriously?

Man, how do you guys handle indexing?

It seems to be extremely tedious.

@wilx k no w - how

@wilx It is. One of the difficult tasks in typesetting of larger works.

[paulo@cambridge ~] $ woman xelatex
No manual entry for xelatex, you bloody bastard

@yo' xetex --help

@yo' texdoc xetex?

@JosephWright yeah, one or the other, but why not man

The only way I could think of is annotating stuff like monsters and NPCs with \monster{X} and \npc{Y}. But that is far from ideal, since if the names are two part, like T'Rang Wilders, I would like to have sub index entreis, etc.

But doing that manually means that the single word or expression gets lost in a forest of index annotations, etc.

@wilx That's the price you pay for an indexed text. :)

You don't need to index every occurrence, just the relevant parts. :)

@barbarabeeton: I edited the duck giveaway question and updated both code and punch card accordingly, as the last entry is not eligible (user has only 15 days in this community). :)

@clemens: another user to stalk follow: github.com/norbusan

@wilx Indexing is not something I know much about, but perhaps some of the questions tagged with indexing and best-practices could be of interest: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/indexing+best-practices

@wilx why does it matter if the names are two part? (unless you want to index each part separately?)

@PauloCereda Enjoying the TL testing developments?

@JosephWright yep. :)

@DavidCarlisle There are 9 different monsters that are T'Rang Something. I can either index them each separately as main entry or use the T'Rang!Something syntax. But if I want to do the latter, I have to do it either manually or devise some other macro for annotation.

Have you guys read the ducks tag description? :) meta.tex.stackexchange.com/tags/ducks/info

In my case it does not matter that much. Very few people will read this Wizardry 7 FAQ PDF but I am curious about how people handle this in real documents.

...real..er(?)

More real. :)

> Ducks are sometimes kept as pets. They are often kept by groups of people on public ponds for their beauty and calming nature. People commonly feed ducks in ponds stale bread, thinking that the ducks will like to have something to eat. However bread is not healthy for ducks and can kill them.

@DavidCarlisle: ^^ oh no

@wilx perhaps I'm missing something but I'd use\foo{T'Rang}{Something} with \def\foo#1#2{#1\index{#1!#2} #2} ?

@wilx it is ... difficult. In general, there are two approaches: you keep the index continuously perfect and tuned up, or you do the tuning up afterwards. It's important to set up a good UI for indexed stuff.

@PauloCereda can I add, "they are also good roasted with orange sauce, or crispy with soy sauce?"

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I guess I can do that. But that is yet more macros and variants. :)

@DavidCarlisle Be my guest. :)

I guess what seems easy to you looks like too much complexity to me. :)

@wilx this is tex, macros are good, we like macros!

@DavidCarlisle: having this tag is already silly. :)

@wilx consider the possiblity of a key-value interface (it has its drawbacks though)

@wilx for the latex companion we used a rather different approach (a human professional indexer) I hadn't been aware that such people exist:-)

@DavidCarlisle Wow!

@DavidCarlisle I wonder how much it cost

@DavidCarlisle Bag of words, remove stop words, regex each word, profit. :)

@DavidCarlisle Speaking of which, you remind me of something

@JosephWright tea? :)

@wilx quite impressive really: you give someone a technical 500 page book about a subject he knows nothing about and he reads it and infers hierarchical index connections that we'd not thought of, and marks it all up in the pdf (then Frank went through and added \index entries to the source and back to makeindex to generate all the page references in the usual way:-)

@PauloCereda Yes, it is that time of day

@JosephWright it is? I was a complete guess. :)

@DavidCarlisle Nice. That is indeed impressive.

@PauloCereda ~1530, yup, that's tea time

@JosephWright ooh. :)

@JosephWright @PauloCereda yeah, remember that tea at five is at four actually :)

@yo' wat

@yo' My family vocabulary is 'northern' enough that tea is also the meal in the evening :-)

@JosephWright of course.

@JosephWright wow, didn't know this.

how do you code, do you manage to comment every line of code immediately, or do you comment by blocks?

@yo' breakfast/dinner/tea vs. breakfast/lunch/dinner :-)

@yo' three meals of the day: breakfast, dinner, tea. Some posh people south of watford try to call it breakfast, dinner, er another dinner, or breakfast, lunch, dinner, but that's just silly:-)

@DavidCarlisle Don't forget supper!

@JosephWright I'm aware of the fact that for many people, dinner is simply the biggest meal of the day. But I thought it's breakfast, dinner, supper

@PauloCereda -- oops! (sorry to create problems. my workstation was replaced yesterday, and although it was much smoother than the last time it happened, there are some rough edges that need to be cleaned up, like identifying the correct default printer so i don't have to walk halfway across the building to pick up output. it's a bit distracting.)

@barbarabeeton oh Printers :)

@JosephWright and high tea

@barbarabeeton oh my, please don't be sorry! Thank you very much for helping me with the contest, I couldn't handle it by myself!

@yo' it is? :) For me, it's lunch. :)

@barbarabeeton How's the new workstation? :)

@PauloCereda small meal in the evening is never dinner. It's dinner only if it's a real mean. Something small (like for me, usually a salad) is supper. (But don't count on me, I can be equally confused.) @JosephWright and @DavidCarlisle are the Englishmen here :)

@yo' now I am terribly confused. :)

@PauloCereda it's simple: there are three main mean times morning, noon-ish, late afternoon, and possibly late evening (which makes four) and several possible names, breakfast, dinner, supper, lunch, tea, high tea plus additional made-up names like brunch, then you just have a packing problem of allocating a subset of the names to a subset of the meal times. That's how English is defined.

@DavidCarlisle Wow!

@DavidCarlisle -- human indexers do exist, they are very competent, and may be very expensive (but worth it!). there are several good manuals on learning how to index; i have one such at home, but have forgotten the author's name, so can't cite it here. even with a human indexer, though, it's a good idea to examine the result closely; i've found glitches (reported to authors, "in case of a new edition").

@barbarabeeton this is impressive, but I'm not surprised. I mean, if laymen are surprised there still exist professional typesetters, why shall I be surprised there are professional indexers? :)

@PauloCereda -- most features of new workstation are pretty close to what was true of the old one. one real problem (being looked into) is why acroread and texdoc on the linux boxes take forever to load, and have other problems they didn't have when i was working with the old setup.

@barbarabeeton Oh my. Which distro does AMS use?

@barbarabeeton I didn't think acroread worked at all on linux these days?

@PauloCereda -- acroread on linux is still version 9. but the only difference in the setup is that the new workstation runs with a newer version of windows (i'm not sure which); the old one reported "wincows professional" when it booted up. nothing relevant has changed on the linux end for at least a year. the x windows are running with a new version of hummingbird/exceed.

@DavidCarlisle -- the version we're still using is antique, but serviceable. would be lost without it. (not just me.)

@barbarabeeton oh takes me back a few years, I used to use hummingbird. (I just use cygwin X now)

@DavidCarlisle They stopped at version 9. The installer isn't available in Adobe's website anymore.

@PauloCereda alias acrobat=xpdf ?

@DavidCarlisle alias emacs=vim

@PauloCereda orange sauce, hmmmm

@DavidCarlisle LOLOLOL you are mean. :)

@PauloCereda yay!

@clemens we are a bunch of wacky people, aren't we? :)

@PauloCereda I won't admit anything! :p

@JosephWright Please, does \seq_map_inline:Nn form a group for each element?

@yo' No.

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{expl3}

\ExplSyntaxOn
\seq_set_from_clist:Nn \l_tmpa_seq {a,b,c}
\seq_map_inline:Nn \l_tmpa_seq { \tl_set:Nn \l_tmpa_tl { #1 } }
\tl_show:N \l_tmpa_tl

\stop

@egreg thanks

> \l_tmpa_tl=c.

@JosephWright: could you delete this one? meta.tex.stackexchange.com/a/6778/3094

@PauloCereda Done

@yo' That would be rather unfortunate

@JosephWright Thanks. :)

@PauloCereda You have seen, that the new Unicode standard 9.0 now has a new duck symbol U+1F986?

@HeikoOberdiek Ooh, Unicode 9.0 release

@DavidCarlisle I guess I better update unicode-data

@HeikoOberdiek @PauloCereda Your new avatar, you have to:

@HeikoOberdiek YAAAAAAY

<3

@barbarabeeton: there are ducks in the new Unicode thingy, yay! @Heiko told us!

@PauloCereda There are many ducks in unicode e.g. fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/9d28/index.htm

@UlrikeFischer ooh

		\tl_put_right:Nn \l_@@_yoinshell_autorun_command_tl
			{ pdflatex ~ -jobname ~ "\Jobname }
		\tl_put_right:NV \l_@@_yoinshell_autorun_command_tl
			\l_@@_yoinshell_autorun_variable_suffix_tl
		\tl_put_right:Nn \l_@@_yoinshell_autorun_command_tl
			{ " ~ "\noexpand\PassOptionsToPackage{subprocess}{yoin}\noexpand\input{\Jobname}" }

^^ @JosephWright I must be doing something wrong here...

Friends, which method name you prefer: who(), whoami() or whoAmI()?

@PauloCereda whoami

@yo' Thanks. <3

@PauloCereda ^^^^

@DavidCarlisle A visionary. :)

@PauloCereda IAmDavid()

@PauloCereda see the following comment at that time?

@DavidCarlisle LOL

@DavidCarlisle If you promise a free beer when I finally reach UK, I will add this very method to arara. :)

@PauloCereda you better be quick, or we'll vote to leave EU tomorrow, then Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales will vote to leave the UK in disgust, and there's be no UK to visit :(

@DavidCarlisle Oh no!

@PauloCereda not an entirely impossible outcome, sadly.

@DavidCarlisle that's a likely scenario if that happens. We trust you guys for tomorrow!

@DavidCarlisle in other words, move to Scotland before it's too late

@barbarabeeton @egreg The font really is ugly :(

@PauloCereda what the heck is this?

@Johannes_B either a banana shop or a banana war, I guessed

@Johannes_B :)

@PauloCereda @yo' @ChristianHupfer Do you guys know this? ^^^^^^

@Johannes_B of course

@Johannes_B Oh my ...

@Johannes_B ooh

@Johannes: DON'T CLICK HERE

@PauloCereda I did click the link, and i didn't expect it, but ... it was funny

@Johannes_B It was about potato, you know. :)

"Is there a predefined example to add Appendix?"

@yo' I've seen worse

Guys, excellent news: Kontrust are coming to town.

In november :-(

@egreg but you've also seen better... :-/

@yo' Be optimistic!

@ChristianHupfer Was passiert, wenn ein Mann (38) vollkommen genervt zu einem anderen Mann (34) Ey, chill mal deine base, alter!? sagt? Ich lieg mit Lachflash am Boden :-D

@egreg how's Irish football?

@DavidCarlisle Tough

@DavidCarlisle We hope the Spaniards are in their low.

@DavidCarlisle Beware of the Vikings

@egreg apparently safer than the Portuguese according to that bit of the news not taken up with EU votes

@egreg I try, but this is too much. I mean, there are good choices, aren't there?