@DavidCarlisle: dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74558210/David%20and%20arara.mp4 Sorry for the lack of audio, I wasn't able to record it (at least in my Linux box, I can try later on my Mac). When the window is visible, the background song starts to play (Rule Britannia).

if someone knows of an English translation to this Lulatex book amazon.de/Einf%C3%BChrung-LuaTeX-LuaLaTeX-Herbert-Vo%C3%9F/dp/… I'd like to buy it. I just do not know Germany. It looks like it will be useful to have.

@Nasser As far as I know there is only the german book available. But to be sure ask the author.

@PauloCereda I just load the data given

@DavidCarlisle Going to be an interesting day

Broadband in my flat is broken: may be due to rain!

@DavidCarlisle I see Karl is keen on Unicode 9: must need the emojis

@Nasser It is quite okay (but imho not really for newbies) but it is from 2013 and is based on luatex 0.70 and so outdated and in parts now wrong.

@JosephWright ducks are essential (I also updated w3c.github.io/xml-entities)

@PauloCereda I confidently predict you will never finish your thesis if you keep thinking of such distractions.

If we leave the EU today or if people get colour over a tabular rule, the same applies: It's not my fault

@DavidCarlisle This here definitely loops for me

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{microtype}
\makeatletter
\addto@hook\every@math@size{%
  \begingroup
     \setbox\z@\vbox{\hbox{$($}}%
  \endgroup
  }
\makeatother
\begin{document}
{\lsstyle $abc$}

\end{document}

On miktex and tl16. You can sent me a log if I should compare.

@UlrikeFischer I get

$ xelatex qq251
This is XeTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-0.99996 (TeX Live 2016) (preloaded format=xelatex)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode
(./qq251.tex
LaTeX2e <2016/03/31> patch level 2
Babel <3.9r> and hyphenation patterns for 83 language(s) loaded.
(/home/davidc/texmf/tex/latex/base/article.cls
Document Class: article 2014/09/29 v1.4h Standard LaTeX document class
(/home/davidc/texmf/tex/latex/base/size10.clo))
(/usr/local/texlive/2016/texmf-dist/tex/latex/microtype/microtype.sty

I could send you a \tracingall log if you want?

@DavidCarlisle Why xelatex? I used pdflatex. (And the question doesn't mention an egine)

@UlrikeFischer hmm either because I'm European and modern and always use lots of letters with squiggles so default to xetex. Or because I haven't had coffee yet and misread the question...

experts: I am seeing something really really strange. I print the final result in lua and look at it in the log file, and it is ok. In the pdf file, I see extra text stuck at the end of it, which happens to be the environment_name which I am using to communicate with lua. I can't see what can cause it.

@Nasser If you can't see, we certainly can't

The strange thing, is that "myListing" do not show up in the log file! I print the final result in lua, and I do not see this thing stuck at the end. I think lualatex is leaking the environment name.

@Nasser given that you are passing in verbatim material (still:-) that's to be expected if you get the timing wrong and \end is not seen as an end envrionment

@DavidCarlisle well, i am using recording now. Changed all the code. It is working very well. I just when I added a 4th argument, this started. But will keep looking. I have no idea now why it shows in pdf but not in the log file.

Here is how I call lua now

\begin{myListing}{\texht}{0}{"Mathematica"}{"normalsize"}%
Clear["Global`*"];
num = (s+1)(s+2);
den = (s)(s+4)(s+6);
gain = 5;
sys = TransferFunctionModel[
         gain (num/den),s]
\end{myListing}

May be the problem is with the recording, when it stops. will look at it more.

[OT]: I know a lot of people here is using git, but here is a subversion question for you. In a project we have 14 chapters, each chapter is made to be compilable on its own (handy for author revisions etc) where we have common macros etc in two sty files. The sty files should go in each chapter folder, and they should be all the same.

On linux, this is easy, soft links. Subversion handles soft links, but if your collaborators are on windows, that soft link is turned into a file copy, thus wrong version.

Any idea on how to approach this in subversion such that one is ensured that each chapter folder always have the same version.

Note: I'd like not to add the sty files in to the LaTeX dist, that is cumbersome when collaborators are using different LaTeX dists

do you have to copy the files, why not just have a styles folder in a shared input path?

@daleif Can't add to TEXMFHOME or use TEXINPUTS?

or even \def\input@path{{../styles/}}

@JosephWright I'd rather not if possible.

@daleif Hmm, not really a Subversion question, of course (mklink is not widely known/accessible so it's tricky on Windows)

@DavidCarlisle When we want to be able to send the authors the .tex and the two .sty to be used in current dir, then this might not be a good idea

@JosephWright why not, surely a version control system ought to be able to keep exactly the same version of a file in different folders. Some pages have mentioned externals, others that it was no good.

@daleif Don't see that: if you start on Windows the two files might look the same but are independent, so how is Subversion meant to 'know'?

@daleif well a trailing symlink isn't much good to them either in that case, either way you need to copy the file while packaging it to be sent out

@DavidCarlisle :)

@daleif did a quick test with Git: two dirs, make the same file in both, commit, change one, commit, second file unchanged: they start off the same but are independent

Good luck UK

Hello chat. I read some time ago about a possible change in \leavevmode. And I think today I just came to the reason for such change:

\documentclass{scrartcl}
\begin{document}

\long\def\foo#1\relax{\texttt{[\detokenize{#1}]}}
\everypar{\foo}

baz\relax\par
\leavevmode baz\relax\par
\def\leavevmode{\ifvmode\expandafter\indent\fi}
\leavevmode baz\relax\par

\end{document}

@Manuel You need \protected there

I guess that's the reason.

@JosephWright Yes, you are right :)

@Manuel See also \quitvmode

In any case, why didn't Knuth use that?

@Manuel No \protected

@JosephWright Okey, understandable.

@JosephWright \quitvmode is a hardcoded version of \protected\def\quitvmode{\ifvmode\expandafter\indent\fi} right?

@Manuel Essentially :-)

@Manuel not really: it has no expansion as tokens

@Manuel Taco wrote it because he'd not spotted \protected\def\leavevmode{\ifvmode\expandafter\indent\fi} :-)

@Manuel as in \expandafter\show\quitvmode

@DavidCarlisle That's what I meant with hardcoded. But okey, doubt solved.

@DavidCarlisle Yes, but Taco did say to me he wrote it mainly as there are issues with Knuth's \leavevmode and he didn't notice the e-TeX version :-)

@JosephWright no doubt:-)

I understand that using \noexpand\leavevmode was a bit of a pain.

@Manuel The LaTeX3 plan is to use the definition you've suggested, but with \protected :-)

@Manuel github.com/latex3/latex3/blob/master/l3trial/xbox/xbox.dtx \xbox_leave_vmode: :-)

@JosephWright ooh XBOX!

@PauloCereda Unreleased, though if I finish it off it might be a fun package to use :-)

@JosephWright :)

@PauloCereda The LaTeX3 team will be sued for illegal use of a trademark

@egreg indeed. :)

@DavidCarlisle On Linux, svn does maintain the soft link. So on my system they are all the same. Just not on Win

@JosephWright Didn't know about that package.

By the way:

\cs_new_protected:Npn \kern_horizontal:n #1
  {
    \mode_if_vertical:T
      { \xbox_leave_vmode: }
    \tex_kern:D \__dim_eval:w #1 \__dim_eval_end:
  }

@Manuel It's in the trial space, so that's not surprising

Isn't it redundant to check for vertical mode if the check is already in \xbox_leave_vmode:?

@Manuel Probably :-)

@Manuel Been a while since I looked at this

@JosephWright Nice to see many things done with LaTeX3 in mind :)

@Manuel I've altered the above

@Manuel Mainly an exercise for me to check xparse works for real-world LaTeX2e interfaces

@egreg I know but seeing as no one can read such a document anyway, I thought I'd done enough:-)

@egreg if they generate a few points for me they're quite useful

'@egreg: I finally managed to properly record the new arara feature: dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74558210/ScreenFlow.mp4

@PauloCereda Hey! I know where the picture was taken!

@egreg It must be recent, David was in colour. :)

@PauloCereda clearly a fake

@PauloCereda someone will be asking for egregdoesnotlikesansseriftitles next

@DavidCarlisle @egreg was an eye witness, he's trusted. :)

@PauloCereda who by?

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle The green square Italian bloke. :)

@PauloCereda Do you know what a Biergarten is?

@PauloCereda self referential trust, hmm

@egreg ooh is a garden where you have beer? :)

@DavidCarlisle Self-signed keys. :)

@PauloCereda Almost. And unfortunately the picture doesn't show the big beer mug in front of David.

@egreg ooh

@DavidCarlisle: See, he knows the context. ^^

:)

British pals, can I ask you please: does batshit have any particular meaning or is it simply a generic swear word?

@yo' Means 'extremely', used often along with 'crazy'

@JosephWright ok thanks, things start to make sense :D

@yo' can't say I have ever heard it

@DavidCarlisle I have, in the last John Oliver's...

Hope you both went to vote!

@yo' see message on the right:-)

@yo' I watched it too. @egreg wouldn't like the cover of Ode to Joy, though.

@DavidCarlisle there's no "on the right" here...

@egreg thanks

@yo' Postal vote went in some days ago

@yo' Nigel Farage?

@yo' You know, @DavidCarlisle is always looking for excuses. :P

@JosephWright no,mobile chat interface :-)

@PauloCereda :-D

@PauloCereda You mentioned templates?

@ArTourter :)

@Johannes_B Close enough. :)

@PauloCereda -- poor little critter. (ferrets aren't cats. a cat would have had no problems. spoken from experience.)

@barbarabeeton indeed. He planned so much.

@barbarabeeton Really? ;-)

@ChristianHupfer -- well, i guess not always. but there was a day, some years ago, when i walked through the door into our kitchen, and felt a pair of eyes staring down at me. on top of the fridge was our cat. the top of the fridge was 6 feet off the floor, and the nearest above-floor surface was even farther away. nothing was off limits. (we did keep secure screens in the windows, since the apartment was on the third floor.)

@barbarabeeton Well, I remember one of the cats of my late mother -- the cat used a chair to jump on the cupboard and from then on top of a very high book shelf. She loved to observe the other cats admiring her position up there ;-)

@ChristianHupfer -- every multi-cat household has its queen.

@DavidCarlisle Weather here voting to leave

@JosephWright Shall we send you our 36 Celsius heat wave in Germany? ;-)

@JosephWright yes bbc weather basically said London was swamped but it was moving off towards east anglia, so just great for a journey from London to Norwich today?

@DavidCarlisle Indeed

@barbarabeeton Well, as far as I can remember the book shelf cat was actually younger than the other ones :D

@DavidCarlisle No trains to London this morning (could have stayed in bed for 40 mins but internet also was bust in flat so didn't know), then coming back they still weren't sorted, except National Rail didn't say that so I only found out when I got to Liverpool St

@JosephWright stick to Deutsche Bahn, far more reliable

@DavidCarlisle .... cough... yes ;-)

@DavidCarlisle Train was too busy for me to look at LuaTeX PDF normalisation: will do this evening (going to be a long evening)

@ChristianHupfer Argh. Sweating finally stopped.

@JosephWright staying up till breakfast time to get the result?

@DavidCarlisle Probably not: plan to get to bed early and get up very early, particularly as there's no exit poll

BBC: What should you do in a thunderstorm? Get wet

@JosephWright hihi, my sense of humor :-)

@DavidCarlisle Weather predictable: first day of Glastonbury

@Johannes_B I find it to be an excellent strategy

@Johannes_B Waiting again for the Summer Rain ... I hate summer

@JosephWright I'm surprised @egreg isn't there, just his kind of music.

@ChristianHupfer Looking out of the windows, no clouds.

@DavidCarlisle I would go.

@Johannes_B sorry you are from the EU: you won't be allowed in after tomorrow.

@Johannes_B Tomorrow, perhaps... at least the forecast predicted thunderstorms in the South West

@DavidCarlisle Honestly, i am a bit scared by that sentence.

@ChristianHupfer SW, Fg is E

@Johannes_B you and me both:(

@DavidCarlisle Thank you.

@Johannes_B I know.

@Johannes_B: We're getting severe thunderstorms here from atlantic streams usually, rushing in from France and since we're close to the border to France with some 'high' mountains, the streams stick there and thunder and rains start here

2 hours to go. I'm anxious.

@ChristianHupfer What have the French ever done for us?

@yo' You can do it.

:-)

@Johannes_B well, I hope Britain can do it :)

@yo' Ah :-)

@ChristianHupfer Geschnetzeltes mit Balsamico-Senf-Bohnen. You gotta try it. Tastes even better the day after.

@PauloCereda ^^^

@DavidCarlisle Unfortunately, some people seem to think ^^^ is actually how things should work

Personally, i think we are all idiots. There is no other way to explain how the citizens of the worlds are doing what they doing.

@DavidCarlisle Yes, mixed with people like these: twitter.com/GlastoLive/status/746056343308603392/photo/…

@egreg I have Radio 1 on now :-)

@egreg I keep meaning to go, but the ticket competition is intense

@JosephWright I'm afraid to ask what they're playing

@egreg This won't mean much to you, but it's Annie Mac's show

@egreg Apparently it's Shy FX Live (I don't know the group)

@egreg Most of the time I have Radio 3 on: you'd approve of at least of some of that

@egreg Gone a bit electro for me now

@JosephWright On the Swiss radio I listen to they started Chopin's piano concerto n. 2. :(

@egreg Like I say, you'd like some of Radio 3's output

@egreg not a fan of Chopin?

@yo' No. I can listen to his pieces, but generally I don't like them.

@egreg ok

@egreg Radio 3 tonight is Beethoven, Bartok, Brahms

@JosephWright Somebody starred my comment about idiots. Can you remove the star or fix the grammar mistakes please?

@Johannes_B Mod powers FTW

@Johannes_B Sorry that was me.

@JosephWright Merci :-)

@JosephWright I broke platex It seems:(

@yo' Well, it is my opinion. Not just mine i think. But i wanted to get the grammar mistakes out there :-)

@DavidCarlisle I think they broke something, actually, but we didn't notice until now :-)

@JosephWright yes I was going to say that, but @egreg would say that was an excuse. I tried texdoc ptex but it's a bit challenging.

@DavidCarlisle Even for a man of your abilities?

@JosephWright probably a non standard encoding in the pdf:-)

@JosephWright Throw away a couple of B's.

@DavidCarlisle Example?

\documentclass{tarticle}
 \AtBeginDocument{\AtBeginDvi{}}
 \begin{document}

a
 \end{document}

@egreg seems that \AtBeginDvi never has been safe in platex

@egreg but the new dvips.def uses it....

I assume the fix is something about \ifsomething then \yoko\unhbox mumble

@DavidCarlisle Yes, it chokes also on TL 2012

@DavidCarlisle On the other hand \AtBeginDvi{} alone works.

@egreg the class does\AtBeginDocument{\tate} which puts ptex in the wrong kind of direction

@DavidCarlisle Seems so.

@egreg \yoko\unbox puts it back but I don't understand the scope, I suspect it puts it back in the wrong way

@DavidCarlisle Apparently, after \tate you can't do \unvbox

@egreg you can unvbox a tate vbox or you can do \yoko\unvbox

or you can do:

\makeatletter
\def \@begindvi{%
%\unvbox
  \box
 \@begindvibox
  \global\let \@begindvi \@empty
}
\makeatother

as in practice the \AtBeginDvi code doesn't really need to be unboxed at all (who puts glue in there?)

\documentclass{tarticle}
\AtBeginDocument{\AtBeginDvi{}}
\makeatletter
\def\@begindvi{%
  \setbox\z@=\vbox{
    \tate\unvbox\@begindvibox
    \global\setbox\@ne=\lastbox
  }
  \unhbox\@ne \global \let \@begindvi \@empty}
\makeatother

\begin{document}

a

\end{document}

@DavidCarlisle But this mainly defeats what \AtBeginDvi wants to do, I guess

\documentclass{tarticle}
\AtBeginDocument{\AtBeginDvi{}}
\makeatletter
\def\@begindvi{%
  \tate\unvbox\@begindvibox
  \global \let \@begindvi \@empty
}
\makeatother

\begin{document}

a

\end{document}

@egreg well no it wants to put a \special up at a safe place in the first shipout....

@DavidCarlisle See the last one

@DavidCarlisle Now you need a conditional to see whether you have to apply \tate

@egreg yes but then it has to be in tate mode doesn't it and would fail in normal...

@egreg see the message I just sent ..... (which you can't see:-) but it said..

of if there is a suitable test perhaps

\if[wrong sort of box]
  \box
\else
  \unvbox
\fi

so that it acts as normal latex if the direction has not been changed.

I don't know if there is such a test (`texdoc ptex` is a bit hard for me:-)

@DavidCarlisle I think that \unvbox is preferable, as it doesn't add interline glue

@egreg yes

@DavidCarlisle Isn't \tate a direction primitive?

@JosephWright There should be a way to check what's the current direction.

@egreg 'Should' as in 'a good idea' or as in 'there is a primitive for this'

@JosephWright Well, since texdoc ptex is hard even for our main linguist…

@JosephWright You should have linked the MP show about Great Britain's Housewifes attacking people because the UK joined the EC ;-)

:30574461 just watching bbc but since they won't have

@DavidCarlisle Yes, the headline was confusing. Indeed it would have been silly to spend money into an exit poll with the result “either way is possible”.

... any results for several hours they are just interviewing people who don't know anything

@DavidCarlisle There's Newcastle vs Sunderland

@DavidCarlisle And repeat whatever they said in the last weeks.

@JosephWright perhaps they'll add cricket scores

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright @PauloCereda We could ask Psmith's great oracle

He's probably more reliable than political analysts in this case.

@egreg Toss a coin ;-) Of course, the oddly shaped 50 pence coin ;-)

@ChristianHupfer Maybe it starts raining and they declare a draw

@egreg Well, it does always rain there

@ChristianHupfer ask @JosephWright about that.

Fortunately we don't have prejudices ;-)

@JosephWright Oh my!

Hi from Fedora 24!