RIP Umberto Eco.

@PauloCereda Penitentiagite

@DavidCarlisle which ones apart from tex4ht should i give a try?

@user89 latexml is worth a look, that produced NIST's dlmf and they are gradually working through arxiv's math archive dlmf.nist.gov/LaTeXML/examples.html

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright — I just found out this week I have a job interview in a few weeks, so will probably be a bit quiet for a while… so much to do, so little time :(

@DavidCarlisle dlmf is amazing, btw. really nice resource. I used their work a lot when I needed to understand elliptic integrals to some extent.

@WillRobertson was slightly worrying that Bruce told me he used xii.tex as one of his test files for latexml:-)

@WillRobertson good luck with that.

@DavidCarlisle I need it :)

thanks

@DavidCarlisle wow, latexml looks nice

@DavidCarlisle I am a little confused by something I am reading in the documentation: "For many, LaTeX is the preferred format for document authoring, particularly those involving significant mathematical content and where quality typesetting is desired. On the other hand, content-oriented XML is an extremely useful representation for documents, allowing them to be used, and reused, for a variety of purposes, not least, presentation on the Web...

...The choice of LaTeX for authoring, and XML for delivery were natural and uncontroversial choices for the Digital Library of Mathematical Functions."

Why is XML useful for delivery?

@user89 well I'm not involved in the project (but I know Bruce who coded most of latexml) so you should ask him, but why not, personally at work we generate all our documents as XML, basically for the reasons that you quote

hmm

i guess it's a useful format because it's easy to write an XML parser

@user89 if you want a document format that can be used to generate tex for print, html for the web, be searched, generate code etc xml is the natural choice

i see

@user89 at work we just write the xml directly but for many people using a latex syntax and generating the xml from that simplifies things

@DavidCarlisle can i ask where you work that needs to produce so many documents, and in so deliverable a form?

(a curiosity thing :p)

@user89 www.nag.co.uk we have a fortran library with 10000 or so page manual as xml including around 300000 math expresions as MathML, but from that we generate documentation for fortran, C, matlab and .NET libraries, and the code for C matlab, .NET and also java and python, it would be hard to do that if the documentation base was tex or word or anything else really.

@DavidCarlisle whoa...so cool..."Numerical Algorithms Group"

that's like working almost at "Mathematics Inc."

that's almost like working at "Mathematics Inc."*

@DavidCarlisle how does NAG's numerical integration stuff compare with PETSc?

@DavidCarlisle more relevant: is it easy go between MathML and LaTeX? where should i put MathML in my brain relative to XML or LaTeX?

@user89 wrong venue, sorry:-) there are limits to what you can say about commercial software in chat

@DavidCarlisle no problem

@user89 mathml is an xml language (or application in the vocabulary of the xml spec) going from mathml to latex is mostly OK especially if you assume unicode support, going the other way is hard or not depending how many latex dark corners you want to support, latexml, tex4ht, mathjax, all do that to a reasonable degree mathjax is essentially a latex to mathml conversion chained to a mathml to html conversion.

i see i see

how is MathML "viewed" by browsers? do they have some sort of an engine similar to TeX in the background that reads MathML info and figures out how to place symbols relative to each other?

@DavidCarlisle ^

@user89 firefox (and to a lesser extent safari) has mathml built into the core engine so it understands mathml at the same level it understands an html table. unfortunately internetexplorer and chrome still won't play that game so mathjax fills in with a javascript library positioning everything "by hand2 with a combination of css and javascript positioning

Are all Miktex package repostories down for anyone else?

The status page is unclear (nothing there has an update time of <6days delay) miktex.org/pkg/repositories

@DavidCarlisle i see...

I've tried at on my home computer though a VPN and direct, my laptop at home, and my laptop at a friends house. It may be misconfig by a highlevel ISP in my state. (I'm in australia)

Looks like this tex.stackexchange.com/questions/252428/…

Ahh yes miktex is down miktex.org/alert/miktex-5892-out-of-sync

@UlrikeFischer Replacing with \newcommand{\fb}{\fontspec{Latin Modern Roman}} to keep changes minimal. Freakin templates.

@barbarabeeton So the stock has been put into the freezer, and I'm left with a good base for a nice vegetable sauce or smooth soup :) Thanks for your assistance :)

@WillRobertson Good luck: what's the job?

@JosephWright It's my current job, but a permanent position. Shortlisted against three other (external) candidates… why can't they just hire me?!

@WillRobertson good luck then!

This must be a FAQ, but searching for it is turning out to be harder than one might think. What is the "tex" for setting TEX, XETEX, etc. in the official format (reduced spacing, dropped "E", etc.)? Thought I'd check here before asking on Main (if need be).

@Davïd \usepackage{metalogo}

@egreg Thanks! Just tried it with TeXShop (xetex) and it tells me "can only be used in preamble" - is there a trick to putting it in the body of a standard paragraph?

@Davïd The metalogo package defines commands for the various logos. Check its documentation.

@egreg That's what I needed to know - thanks again!

You can tell I'm a bit new to this... ;)

And (ironically), it's so much easier to find what you need to know once you know what you need to know. Sigh!

@Davïd There's a very nice old Italian comic movie where the leading role actor asks a policeman: “In order to go where we have to go, what direction do we have to go?”

@egreg Ha! "Excuse me ... Bitte schön." (1min) was the bit I caught best. :) Very amusing even when you don't know what they're saying!

@Davïd The two come to Milan from the country in Southern Italy and they have quite wrong beliefs about people in that city. So Totò is trying to speak some different language, hoping the policeman will understand; actually he thinks the policeman is some Austrian general.

And he ends up saying “He didn't understand a word!”

@Davïd It's a very amusing movie, but I don't think it can really be dubbed in another language.

@egreg Sounds like a wonderful farce. I caught them throwing in some French, too, but sadly my Italian goes no farther than "quando andermo a mangiare" - which isn't a bad sentence to know if you only know one!

@Davïd One of the best with Totò.

Does anybody have an idea what this message by Dirk is referring to? en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User_talk:Johannes_Bo#Welcome.21

@Johannes_B No

@JosephWright Good, i am not alone. Can you ping him here? I don't want to ask on that page. Seems ridiculous

@egreg You always think this is the case with language humour, but for instance the transation of H*U*M*A*N K*A*P*L*A*N to Czech is so great!

@Johannes_B seems like "advertisement" to me

@yo' But why?

@Johannes_B I have no idea?

@yo' :-) me too

@yo' @JosephWright Ah! en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Talk:LaTeX/… at the very bottom

@Johannes_B yeah. The wiki talk system is anything but comprehensible.

@yo' I want to have one chat for every book.

@Johannes_B SE style comments. Whatever. And, notifications of course.

@yo' You get notifications, but it is not as easy as here.

@Johannes_B they are not click-through to the right place I think...

c'mon this is 21st century

@yo' No, not really.

@yo' BURN THE WITCH!

:)

@PauloCereda you switched the digits, didn't you? :D

@yo' ooh sorry. <3

@PauloCereda :)

@Davïd \TeX

@yo' -- thanks for the thanks. (not sure how i helped, but i'm really glad it's turned out well. too bad i can't get a taste.)

@yo' I'm not saying it's impossible, but that movie in particular relies on the ungrammaticalities of the main characters. The famous scene where Totò is dictating Peppino a letter can be rendered only with a gross approximation: it mixes mock bureaucratic style with grammatical errors and various word jokes.

@egreg similar to Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis, a.k.a. Welcome to the sticks?

@yo' I don't know it.

@egreg it's a movie that you can't watch in French with English subtitles, because the language jokes there are equally good in both languages, but totally different. I mean: it really takes some effort and you really have to change a lot in the script, but you can translate this sort of movies. This one is (in French) based on the very peculiar accent of the Picardie and Nord regoins, and similarities of words. Impossible to translate literally, but still possible to translate,

preserving the spirit of the movie

@barbarabeeton did you just get a mail from me? I had a strange network error warning but it appears to have gone?

@yo' @egreg Not unlike the English translations of Asterix, perhaps.

@Davïd We had the luck that the translator of the initial issues of Astérix was a very witty writer, Marcello Marchesi.

@Davïd perhaps. I don't know A&O at all, neither in English nor in French...

@DavidCarlisle -- yes, there's a message in my mailbox. if you don't mind, i'll defer that particular discussion to the rest of the gang.

@yo' -- it's worth becoming acquainted with a&o.

@barbarabeeton probably; I've never been a bookworm nor a movieworm

In group theory we have the image of function $im~\theta=\theta~G$ to be a subgroup of $G'$ where $\theta :G\rightarrow G'$. Is there any special way to write "im" in mathmode? Should I use \text{}?

@johnny09 You shouldn't be using ~ to begin with. \DeclareMathOperator{\im}{im} and then $\im \theta=\theta G$

@egreg Thank you. Why shouldn't I? Some times I use \quad. Is this better?

@johnny09 No space, as usual in math typesetting. A thin space will be added automatically between im and theta. That's all you need.

@egreg Alright. Thank you again. :)

@yo' Should I add a sarcastic comment such as “your friend should have started studying for the course some weeks ago and not just a few days before the test”?

@yo' Yes, it's an exercise of mine. The test is on Monday.

@egreg Is Can you help me translate on-topic on math.SX?

@Johannes_B Yes.

@Johannes_B Of course the friend is imaginary; the sarcastic comment could be “if you had knocked at the teacher's door a few weeks ago, he (that is, I) would have been glad to help”.

@egreg I wonder how he would react to that comment :-)

@Johannes_B I think I know who the student is. He came to my office yesterday asking for some material.

@egreg Oh, that lucky guy

@egreg Oh my, do it! :)

@egreg Let f be a linear transformation and suppose it's matrix in basis {...} (in both domain and co-domain) is A. (a) Determine the matrix B of f in the canonical basis. (b) Caculate dimension of the image of f (the rank?). (c) Decide whether B is diagonizable. (d) Find a base of the nullspace (kernel?) of f.

^^ is that correct?

@yo' Essentially so.

btw, basis as a set? really?

@yo' It's fully clear that the problem is not in the language, but in lack of knowledge about the topic.

@egreg: your student here: vine.co/v/ihaiEhqMALh :)

@yo' Spot the semicolons; I use them with a precise meaning.

@egreg I haven't seen lingebra for a while, but this seems trivial (I won't post the answers here)

@egreg ok, I thought that this could be the case.

@yo' Yes, just follow the standard pattern for computing the change of basis matrix. Deciding diagonalizability is very easy with the given matrix: so that part is just a teaser; smart students will follow the easy way and spare time for the rest.

@egreg first, diagonalizability of f is the same as one of A and of B, right? IIRC, diagonizable in C is the same as normal...

@yo' Of course: the two matrices are linked by $B=SAS^{-1}$

@egreg so all one needs is to find the image of $e_i$ as a sum of $e_j$'s

What's this, math chat?

and for nullspace (can I put the answer here?)

@JosephWright may be :)

@yo' That would not be the solution of choice: the computations are easy just for avoiding complications.

@egreg you can do the triple matrix multiplication, but that's no fun... :D

and nullspace is span(e2-e1, e4-e2) ?

Hi I have a question: how can I set \mathrm{} globally for all my latex equations in a document?

@357 uh. Why that?

I like the font of \mathrm.

@357 but it's completely non-typographic. Note that italic math has a good reason: distinction of math and text

I want the math to blend in with the text though.

@357 It does blend

If you still insist, try \usepackage{mathastext}, but I have warned you.

not really.

ok

ty

dumb question but how does it know that I want \mathrm?

is \mathrm text font?

i guess, because it worked.

thanks a lot.

@357 yes, basically yes. Most math fonts are italic. (Or as specially designed upright fonts, as eulervm for instance)

@357 you're welcome. But you really shouldn't do this.

don't worry it's only for a personal thing.

it's not for others to read.

@JosephWright: when you have some time, could you add Mico's interview to the panel in the main site?

@PauloCereda Done

@JosephWright Thank you! <3

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/1728/…

@PauloCereda Any personalized TeXtalk logo this time, or you've procrastinated enough?

@yo' I need to find where they are. :) It will be a Star Wars theme, I guess. :)

@PauloCereda oh! :)

@yo': ^^ a preview for you. :)

@PauloCereda :)

@yo' I have a couple we never used: Captain America, Freddy Krueger, a Spartan, and a Kill Bill one. :)

@JosephWright: ^^ :)

Is there a test .bib file around that can be used with natbib?

@PauloCereda Oh dear

@AlanMunn one of these? /usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/doc/latex/latex-bib-ex/*.bib

@DavidCarlisle Perfect, thanks.

@DavidCarlisle New AMS tests fail for me with XeTeX: deliberate?

Is it possible to put three "\address" tags on the same line and align it accordingly?

For example, the first one goes on the left, the second in the center and the third on the right?

@DemCodeLines Yes: \noindent\makebox[\columnwidth][s]{Left\hfill\makebox{0pt}{Center}\hfill Right}

I'm new to LaTeX, so sorry for the stupid question, but where would I put the text in there?

@DemCodeLines It could be arranged in a macro that checks whether there's overlapping. The text is in place of “Left”, “Center” and “Right”.

I don't see any mention of "address" in there, so I doubt that applies to the "address" tag.

@DemCodeLines Well, it depends on the document class, of course

@DemCodeLines There is no \address command in the standard classes.

I was actually using 9a here

For some reason, if you apply your code in there, it doesn't start from the left. There is a minor indent.

@DemCodeLines res.cls is quite outdated:

% RESUME DOCUMENT STYLE -- Released 23 Nov 1989
%    for LaTeX version 2.09
% Copyright (C) 1988,1989 by Michael DeCorte

\typeout{Document Style `res' <26 Sep 89>.}

Yeah, but it seems to be pretty popular in the CS community

@DemCodeLines Sorry, but without a proper example it's just guesswork.

Example of what?

@DemCodeLines You have the code in front of you, I don't.

@DemCodeLines Of course, when I see code like this below, I get goosebumps.

% Center the name over the entire width of resume:
 \moveleft.5\hoffset\centerline{\large\bf Susan R. Bumpershoot}
% Draw a horizontal line the whole width of resume:
 \moveleft\hoffset\vbox{\hrule width\resumewidth height 1pt}\smallskip
% address begins here
% Again, the address lines must be centered over entire width of resume:
 \moveleft.5\hoffset\centerline{1985 Storm Lane}
 \moveleft.5\hoffset\centerline{Troy, NY 12180}
 \moveleft.5\hoffset\centerline{(518) 273-0014 or (518) 272-6666}

It's hilarious (not your fault, of course).

@egreg Indeed

@egreg Wow. Just wow.

@egreg Dzis hurtz my eyez.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
% Use this to set the sectionwidth.
% It adjust the width of the text as well as the hoffset
% You probably shouldn't touch any of the size paramaters
% unless you really understand all of this but it is not
% hard.  Either way, it can only be executed once
%
\def\sectionfont{\bf}
\newdimen\sectionwidth
\newskip\sectionskip
\newdimen\resumewidth

\resumewidth=6.5in
\sectionskip=3.5ex plus 1ex minus -.2ex % values stolen from LaTeX

\def\newsectionwidth#1{%

From res.cls ^^^^^

@DemCodeLines Don't worry! It's not your fault. Maybe you can ask a question on the site adding an example of what you're trying to do.

@egreg Well, year 1989 could serve as an excuse for code dertiness

@yo' No: the page at RPI is “last updated 2007” and the \moveright thing is there.

@egreg well, if minor fixes were done only, you can't count that. It's big releases that matter

I'm too well-versed in LaTeX. Was simply trying to get a good template that I can use for resume purposes, but I guess this isn't exactly the one, huh?

@DemCodeLines Not really. ;-)

@DemCodeLines But it shouldn't be difficult to get what you want. Just ask a question on the site and fill in the CV with mock data.

Will do so. Give me just a second.

Do we have a question that shows how to create a package?

@AlanMunn The ones top-voted in package-writing are about this; depends which one suits your needs the best.

@yo' Hmmm. None. :) ? (It seems like we don't have a good self-contained answer, but pointers to a lot of guides instead.)

@DemCodeLines No, it's not sufficient, sorry.

@egreg huh?

@AlanMunn yeah, I went through them and didn't like any. Someone should write something up. It can be me, you, @egreg, @David, whoever...

@JosephWright not entirely. I'll check. (got distracted by real life:-)

@AlanMunn I'm not sure writing a package can really be covered in a Q&A format

Where could I find the source code of the \cite command? Couldn't find it

@DemCodeLines Your question doesn't have enough information to be answerable without a lot of work on the part of others. You should post a Minimal Working Example of the code you're trying to change. See meta.tex.stackexchange.com/q/228/2693

@RomainPicot latex.ltx

\DeclareRobustCommand\cite{%
  \@ifnextchar [{\@tempswatrue\@citex}{\@tempswafalse\@citex[]}}
\def\@citex[#1]#2{\leavevmode
  \let\@citea\@empty
  \@cite{\@for\@citeb:=#2\do
    {\@citea\def\@citea{,\penalty\@m\ }%
     \edef\@citeb{\expandafter\@firstofone\@citeb\@empty}%
     \if@filesw\immediate\write\@auxout{\string\citation{\@citeb}}\fi
     \@ifundefined{b@\@citeb}{\hbox{\reset@font\bfseries ?}%
       \G@refundefinedtrue
       \@latex@warning
         {Citation `\@citeb' on page \thepage \space undefined}}%

@JosephWright Thank you :)

@JosephWright In some sense, I agree, but I think that we could easily have something that shows the minimal stuff that should be in one and how basic things are achieved, like simple options and commands.

@DemCodeLines Answer is online

@JosephWright For example, I wrote up this answer (which is not generic enough) but shows some basic things I think.

@JosephWright tests pass for me now:-)

@DemCodeLines I added a version solely based on article

@DemCodeLines I have a certain familiarity with bad code. ;-)

@egreg I will sound weird, but I didn't realize that you answered that question until now... :|

Thank You :)

@JosephWright It can IMHO, at least in the sense of "what is the minimal thing the .sty file should contain to be really a package" and "what makes a difference between putting macros in a package and in a document preamble"

Any idea why Mid’laar would come out as "MidŠlaar" ? Seems like an encoding problem, but I tried a bunch of different encodings and can't reproduce it. tex.stackexchange.com/q/292104/2693

@AlanMunn Are you going to bare with the OP? ;-)

@AlanMunn Of course the issue is in the single ’ (U+2019).

@egreg But that compiles with no problems for me.

@AlanMunn Yes, but probably the OP is using a different option for inputenc

@egreg Ok, I assumed since he was following the linked question he would be using utf8. But in the comments he doesn't mention the input encoding he specified. (Even messing around with different options, I can't get an Š.)

@AlanMunn I have a feeling that LY1 may be involved

@egreg Ah, that wasn't on my radar.

@AlanMunn In LY1, Š is at position 0x8A, but it's unclear how it can pop out.

@egreg Off to see Andras Schiff. Buonanotte.

@AlanMunn Have a nice evening!

@egreg Thanks. It should be good.