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yo'
12:22 AM
@Paulo!
 
12:38 AM
@yo' Tom!
Leaving SP as we speak.
 
yo'
@PauloCereda oh that sux
I should be leaving this living room and moving myself 40cm to my bedroom :)
 
I just found that \unexpanded and \noexpand act differently (and the first one exactly as I would expect). In \edefs it works as expected (“protecting” the argument from expansion), but when used in normal text \unexpanded doesn't act, it's just like \@firstofone. Which, is, IMO, nice.
 
Dude nearby me.
 
1:02 AM
(following the last message) Couldn't that be a nice way of “protecting” arguments from expansion? Like if we have some sort of \define\tmpa{..} inside an \edef we could teach \define to autoprotect not only himself (with \protected\def\define) but also to protect it's argument from expansion. Isn't that useful?
 
 
3 hours later…
4:11 AM
1:11AM and the bus broke. :(
 
 
1 hour later…
5:24 AM
Hi everyone. I changed \IfFileExists{attachments.csv}to \IfFileExists{./attachments.csv} and now don't remember why.
What difference does this make?
Never mind, this has the answer:
27
A: Can I test if a file exists?

yo'Yes, you can: \IfFileExists{filename}{true-branch}{false-branch} Notice that this looks for the file in all search pathes of LaTeX, so not only in the current directory, but in the texmf tree as well. Therefore, you can use it for instance for a "poor man's solution" when a package is missing:...

 
5:47 AM
Though I don't know why putting ./filename stops \IfFileExists from looking somewhere else. I guess that would require me knowing about the implementation.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:14 AM
@yo' no I don't mind ... noticed a couple myself afterwards but was too tired last night
@Johannes_B TeXbook or appendix B in the Companion
 
yo'
8:29 AM
@FaheemMitha it's like in the shell: once you mention the directory explicitly, you fix it.
@FrankMittelbach well, I happily did it, the answer is soooo cool! :)
 
9:17 AM
Hi, i posted a question tex.stackexchange.com/questions/234306/… that require your expertise!
It's about beamer, footnotecite and numbering.
 
10:11 AM
@yo' Yes, I see. I meant, I don't know how it is implemented.
This question is quite old.
43
Q: How to enter publications "in press", or "submitted to" in BibTeX?

Tobin FrickeIs there a convention for how to enter publications that are "in preparation" or "submitted to Some Journal" into a BibTeX database?

Are those answers still best practice?
 
10:39 AM
@FaheemMitha Use @unpublished
 
Can I use \label in equation if I use \ [ some equation \ ]
 
@Cortizol Yes, but of course \ref will point to some random number. You can use \pageref, though, and it will point to the right page.
 
@egreg If I use \begin{align}.. then it will be okay, but I suppose that is bad solution?
 
@Cortizol What precisely are you aiming at?
@Cortizol If you use \label{foo} where LaTeX generates no number, \ref{foo} will point to the previously generated number, so it won't help. Since \[...\] generates no number, we're in this case.
 
@egreg I just have one equation, and I would like something like:" tralala \ [ equation (1.3) ] tralala. Now, from (1.3) we have...."
 
10:50 AM
@Cortizol That's where \tag finds its place! If you say \[formula\tag{*}\label{foo}\] then \eqref{foo} will print (*)
 
@egreg I know, but I need automatically numbering. I will just use align for this.
 
@Cortizol What's \begin{equation}...\end{equation} for? ;-)
 
@egreg For some reason I thought that is wrong. $$ is wrong. Okay. Thanks.
 
@egreg Is that still the best option?
 
Good maen
 
11:00 AM
@SoundsOfSilence Hello! :)
 
@SoundsOfSilence that always sounds like a misspelling to me.
though I know it isn't.
 
@FaheemMitha It's the only option, in my opinion: yet unpublished papers are, with high degree of accuracy, unpublished. ;-)
 
@egreg Word.
(I can be street too).
 
@PauloCereda Good morning! Did they repair the bus or did you go home by foot?
 
@egreg should note say "in preparation" or similar?
 
11:05 AM
@FaheemMitha Yes. Give any information that helps.
 
@egreg Ok, thanks.
 
@egreg Good morning! :) They repaired the bus, I was very far from home (at least 100km). But I was safe, the bus broke in a strategic place (nearby a police station) -- it took about 1 hour to repair it, and I got home safe and sound. Yay! :)
 
@PauloCereda, @FaheemMitha: Good lunch time (here at least ;-))
 
@SoundsOfSilence ooh German food! :)
 
@SoundsOfSilence over in #mercurial they used to favor "gug".
 
11:08 AM
@PauloCereda: Fried duck ... :-P
 
@SoundsOfSilence Oh no!
 
@PauloCereda: Calm down... no ducks were harmed
 
@SoundsOfSilence <3
 
@PauloCereda: In fact I have never eaten duck again since I learned about your duck obsession (er... fascination)
 
@ArnoMittelbach Hi! You have quite a demanding surname for being a LaTeXer!
 
11:12 AM
@egreg Why? Apparently Bach mean brook in German. Or so I hear.
I wonder what Mittel means.
 
@FaheemMitha: Middle ... mean
 
@SoundsOfSilence Oh
 
@egreg: As long he does not rename to Frank Mittelbach ;-)
@FaheemMitha: But Bach means brook, that's correct
 
@PauloCereda sounds stressful.
@SoundsOfSilence Yes, that's what they tell me. I only know because of the most famous holder of that name.
 
@FaheemMitha: I have already visited Bach's birthplace in Eisenach. It's a museum nowadays, only a few hundred meters from Luther's hourse in Eisenach
 
11:15 AM
@SoundsOfSilence Was it fun?
 
@FaheemMitha: Depends on your view on 'fun' ;-) It was quite interesting.
 
I hear the church he was baptized at still functions as a church.
@SoundsOfSilence Fun broadly defined.
Are there lots of plaques and stuff in commemoration?
 
@FaheemMitha: Yes, that way... and a list/portraits of his 20 (!!!) children, where only ten of them got into adult age :-(
 
@SoundsOfSilence That might be a good idea for my travel from Darmstadt to Prague.
 
@SoundsOfSilence list where?
@egreg you haven't been yet? What about Vienna?
 
11:19 AM
@FaheemMitha I've been in Vienna a few times.
 
@egreg was it nice?
 
@FaheemMitha Very nice town indeed.
 
@FaheemMitha: Lists and portrait in the Birthhouse of Bach (Bach-Haus Eisenach)
 
@SoundsOfSilence John Napier had 3 in his first marriage and 10 in his second. :P
 
@SoundsOfSilence Oh, in the birth house.
@egreg they have a Mozart festival. Can't remember now if it is annual or not.
 
@SoundsOfSilence Bach Haus ooh I get it! :)
 
@PauloCereda: Probably the ten children were calculated to provide decadic logarithms :-P
 
@SoundsOfSilence EXACTLY! :P
 
Child one: You will do the log_10 of 1.000001 etc. , child two, you will do 2.000001 etc.
 
11:25 AM
@SoundsOfSilence You probably know that decimal logarithms were Briggs' idea; he went to Scotland to meet Napier, who died a few months later. So Briggs was left alone in developing his idea. He was a formidable calculator, by the way, and produced accurate logarithm tables in a very short time.
 
@egreg: I know, but I wanted to make a bad joke about the 10 children and decimal logarithms ;-)
@PauloCereda: What does have logarithms ever done for us :D
 
@SoundsOfSilence I didn't get your bad joke, though.
 
@SoundsOfSilence It was common saying that logarithms doubled astronomers' life.
 
@egreg I once heard abour Napier's story on soaking alcohol in a bunch of corn and giving to the neighbour's pigeons. :P
@SoundsOfSilence LOL
 
@PauloCereda: Well, I should rather ask: What does Roman Number's have done to us :-P
 
11:28 AM
@SoundsOfSilence They helped the movie industry to disguise old releases. :)
^^ true story
 
@egreg: Yes, especially for astronomers and any one in need of true calculations (not math proofs :-P)
 
@SoundsOfSilence Ever tried to do “XLIII times DCCCXIV”?
 
@egreg: Not before converting them into arabic figures :D
 
@SoundsOfSilence CHRISTIAN HVPFER
^^ My Latin is so good :)
 
@PauloCereda: Oh my, I am undisguised :D
 
11:30 AM
@SoundsOfSilence :)
 
@PauloCereda I'll call you PAVLO from now on.
 
@PauloCereda: I am deeply impressed about your knowledge of Latin ;-)
@PauloCereda: Arno is gone :-( He was very calm
 
@egreg Oh no! :) It backfired! :)
@SoundsOfSilence It is almost as good as my German. :)
Das Latin ist sehr gut! :)
 
Is this a qualified answer:
0
A: Issue with the option many in tcolorbox

NVaughanThe code you posted is missing the \documentclass{...} command. This code compiles well on my machines (with the distros TeXLive 2014 and MacTeX 2014). \documentclass{article} \usepackage[many]{tcolorbox} \newtcbtheorem[number within=section]{mytheo}{My Theorem}% {colback=white,colframe=...

@PauloCereda: Das bezweifle ich nicht :-P
 
11:54 AM
@SoundsOfSilence ... or as it turns out, to @karlkoeller :-)
@SoundsOfSilence we don't all understand French here
 
@DavidCarlisle: Well, my knowledge is ... say, limited ... both of TeX and French ;-)
 
@egreg You do know who Arno's dad is?
 
@DavidCarlisle Don't tell me!
 
@egreg well not me or Joseph:-)
 
12:28 PM
@DavidCarlisle You guys are looking for maintainers, aren't you? :)
 
1:10 PM
@PauloCereda looks like one of my sons showed up
 
1:23 PM
@FrankMittelbach Indeed. :)
 
@FrankMittelbach We're waiting for the first package by M. Carlisle.
 
@FrankMittelbach He's about my age!
(TLC release date + info in Frank's bio + super complex math)
@egreg mlongtable
 
1:40 PM
Nov 3 '14 at 9:10, by Johannes_B
If hope this becomes a nice answer. Took me some time.
10
A: How to customize my titlepage?

Johannes_BThe titlepage is one of the first pages of a book or thesis. This page contains only the title in a fashion similar to the rest of the text within the book. That is what Wikipedia tells us, now we have a perspective to follow, the titlepage should match the appearance of the rest of the book or ...

Finally :-)
 
1:51 PM
@PauloCereda sorry for that :-)
 
@FrankMittelbach No worries, it was actually a innocent mention. :)
 
well, makes me feel old, doesn't it?
 
@FrankMittelbach don't worry: you are nowhere near as old as @egreg
 
@DavidCarlisle oh good to know :-)
 
Friends, what is the easiest way to \show a control sequence with @ in its name when running interactively?
 
2:03 PM
@PaulGessler \makeatletter\show\@foo ?
 
@DavidCarlisle d'oh! Thanks! For some reason I thought I tried this and it didn't work.
 
@FrankMittelbach We are growing fast, not your fault. :)
 
2:18 PM
@PaulGessler \expandafter\show\csname @foo\endcsname, if you don't want to or can't use \makeatletter
 
2:31 PM
@yo' -- thanks for suggestion. i think so, and i've asked.
 
What's a bit disturbing for me is the fact that people come here looking for answers, but never react to any comment, or completely stay away after asking.
 
@barbarabeeton you could introduce it with:
yesterday, by barbara beeton
@DavidCarlisle -- if you look at the visual and ignore the text, it's easy to see what's wrong. could probably be fixed with a couple of minipages and captionof.
@barbarabeeton :-)
 
@egreg ah, right, thanks. I tried that too but had \expandafter in the wrong place... it seems my brain is not at full strength this morning. :-)
 
Is anybody into console gaming? Xbox, PS, Wii...
 
@PaulGessler there are very few documents where you can not simply put \makeatletter in the preamble, then \show\@foo at the point you need it would just work
 
2:39 PM
@egreg do you mind having a look at my question tex.stackexchange.com/questions/234306/…? I'm asking you because you answered once in the past a similar question.
 
@DavidCarlisle -- you're naughty. i deleted that comment after realizing it was inane.
 
@barbarabeeton sorry:)
 
@barbarabeeton @David's Xmas card said so. :)
 
Anybody want to give some editing tips here?
0
Q: UNAM thesis title page (portada tesis UNAM)

dgcontrerasI try to write latex code to generate a title page for a UNAM's thesis, It's hard to define the position of each element and get the desire result. It will be very appreciated if somebody can share code to resolve this problem

 
@Johannes_B -- i'll tackle moving info from comments into the question.
 
2:53 PM
@barbarabeeton Thank you :-)
 
@s__C Are you sure you want to use footnotes in a beamer presentation to begin with?
 
yes I just wanna show some references...
I'm not using any conventional beamer template though, meaning I have space for this without ending up with noisy slides
plus a ratio of 16/10 is IMO way better than 16/9
 
@s__C Not really difficult, then. ;-)
 
mhh
and no other way to bypass this manual action?
It's fine anyway
way better than my initial guess with \footcite where I have to set the reference number of \footmark manually
Even the best presenters in my field are doing that (cf. pes.ee.ethz.ch/uploads/tx_ethpublications/…). But they probably rely on powerpoint, thing that I'll never do just because of bad mathematics handling.
 
@Johannes_B -- done.
 
3:08 PM
@barbarabeeton upvoted.
 
@egreg Thanks it's doing its job perfectly.
 
\begin{frame} \frametitle{FKG-Ungleichung} \section{FKG-Ungleichung} \subsection{Allgemeines} \begin{itemize} \item{Fortuin, Ginibre} \end{itemize} \subsection{Vorbereitung} \begin{block}{Definition} \begin{math} Eine Funktion $\textit{ f: $\mathcal{P}$(1...n) $\leftarrow$ $\mathbb{R}$}$ heißt \textbf{wachsend}, falls für \textit{A \subset B} \textit{f(A)\le f(B)} gilt. \textit{f} heißt \textbf{fallend}, falls aus \textit{A \subset B} \textit{f(A) \ge f(B)} folgt. \end{math} \end{block} \end{frame} — user74309 Mar 17 at 17:03
@egreg I hope you don't get a stroke reading this. ^^^
 
@Johannes_B but you copy it here and ping him, just to make sure he sees it?
 
@DavidCarlisle I bet @egreg has seen worse. I read the one tugboat article. :-)
 
@Johannes_B Oh, my goodness! It's wonderful!
 
3:21 PM
@egreg We could print it on shirts and wear them in Darmstadt.
 
3:32 PM
0
Q: What is the best way to describe multiple algorithms?

BabajagaI am working on a programming project and I have to do a report about what I did. I have to descibe multiple functions. My goal is not to show code but to descibe it. Is there a package that could help me with it ?

 
I'm wondering - does anyone here regularly include in GIF of his/her signatures in business LaTeX letters so that they don't need to be signed?
I think I saw a question or two about this at some point. I'm just wondering if it is common practice.
 
@FaheemMitha gif is not allowed, but i use a scanned jpg of my signature for purely online send stuff.
 
@Johannes_B How do you mean, gif is not allowed?
 
@FaheemMitha With pdflatex, the allowed file endings are jpg, png and pdf. eps in dvi-mode.
 
3:47 PM
@FaheemMitha .gif files are not valid recognized formats.
 
@FaheemMitha Well, then anybody can grab your signature from an online document you signed.
 
@egreg Yes, make sure to do this on limited occasions and a limited set of users.
 
@egreg So then, that is a "I don't recommend it"?
 
@FaheemMitha Yes. An image is embedded in the PDF and it's quite easy to retrieve it.
 
@egreg ok
@egreg I'm not talking about online letters. Strictly paper letters. I'm mostly concerned about legal issues here, which I suppose this room can't really advise about. As in, this isn't a "real" signature.
I wonder if it is easy to distinguish between a real signature and the printed image of a signature.
Though they would all look the same, so that might be a giveaway for a Sherlock Holmes type who was paying attention.
 
4:01 PM
@FaheemMitha Yes, it's quite easy to spot.
 
@PauloCereda Ah, ok. Thanks.
 
@FaheemMitha SH would try to say it's a female handwriting, as it seems his recurring theme when talking about signatures. :)
 
@PauloCereda SH?
 
@egreg What do you mean with don't do it in a printeed document?
 
@Johannes_B They do?
 
4:04 PM
@Johannes_B Using \therefore
 
@FaheemMitha I replied to your comment mentioning Sherlock Holmes, SH.
 
@egreg To be honest, i never really got introduced to those symbols. Looking at maths, i feel stupid. LaTeX-math code is much more readable for me.
 
@PauloCereda Oh, right, sorry. Not paying attention. I'm definitely not a Sherlock Holmes type.
 
@FaheemMitha Some do, yes.
 
Which people are those?
 
4:06 PM
@FaheemMitha I don't know. Go through the unanswered list, you will find quite a bunch.
 
@Johannes_B Well, give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they were eaten by a grue after they asked the question.
 
@FaheemMitha To be honest, every time i notice a user that never came back, i silently hope that the reason for his disappearance is not a collision with a bus or something.
 
@Johannes_B Unlikely. If that makes you feel any better.
 
@FaheemMitha Yes, very unlikely :-)
 
4:22 PM
@SoundsOfSilence \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} then it won't (You should have that anyway:-) (question deleted as I was typing comment:-)
 
There's a pretty international crowd here. Anyone here ever been to Domrémy?
 
@FaheemMitha No worries. I'm almost done reading all stories, that's why it's fresh in my mind. :)
 
@PauloCereda Ah. And you've probably been watching the series too? With Mr. Cumberbatch, I mean.
 
@FaheemMitha Actually, no. :) I got all episodes, but I'm stuck with the books for now. It's easier for me to read on the bus. :)
 
@PauloCereda Ah. Well, the series is fun. And Mr. Cumberbatch is too.
 
4:29 PM
New programming language of choice: BASIC:-)
 
Though he doesn't quite convince as SH. And the other chappie isn't that great.
@DavidCarlisle Whose programming language of choice?
 
@Johannes_B Such symbols may be useful on a blackboard (I don't think so, personally). In a printed text they're out of place.
 
@DavidCarlisle GOTO 20674230
 
@egreg Written words are better, i agree.
 
4:35 PM
@PauloCereda of course the pi also comes with python but basic is just like fortran so obviously a more serious language.
 
@DavidCarlisle wooohooo
 
@PauloCereda still in the box.... (will see if it works tomorrow, probably:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Photos please. :)
 
and of course no vim
 
@DavidCarlisle boo
@David: on a more serious note, for my thesis I will either extend an existing language or write one from scratch. Would it be too masochist to extend Fortran? :P
 
4:43 PM
@DavidCarlisle Of course the BASIC program is typed in Emacs.
 
A subset of Pascal is already done, and it's quite nice. :)
 
@PauloCereda well since I have a colleague who's an editor of the fortran standard and extending fortran is part of the job spec, I can't say too much against that...
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh cool. :)
 
@PauloCereda you could extend tex
 
I have to go, if anyboody is in the mood: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/234360/…
@PauloCereda Are you in SH -mode now? ^^^^^^
 
4:59 PM
@DavidCarlisle -- i'm eagerly awaiting an article detailing what doug mckenna reported with "jsbox" at last year's tug meeting: tug.org/tug2014/slides/mckenna-JSBox.pdf; see also tug.org/tug2014/slides/mckenna-literac.pdf . if extending tex, that should be taken into account.
 
5:28 PM
@Johannes_B A couple of years ago, the best answer would be write them in Algol. :)
 
6:04 PM
@barbarabeeton interesting. No code available yet?
 
6:52 PM
Watching a horror movie named The pyramid.
 
7:50 PM
0
Q: Use of Spanish in Babel results in unwanted text in final document

DavidI'm trying to use Babel for Spanish with TeXnicCenter and MikTeX. Whenever I add the following line to my source file, I get in trouble: \usepackage[spanish,mexico]{babel} If I add it before \begin{document} I get a full page at the beginning of the document with this text: *spanishcaptions ...

This person has a very odd problem. I suspect something is up with his distribution. Any MikTeX users around who might have an idea?
 
Why the worst actress is the last one to be killed by the monster? Bah.
In her last "movie", she was friends with Miley Cyrus. I think I don't need to say much.
 
How can we enable breaking at commas in inline math mode? $(a,b,c,d,e,f,g,\dots,0,1,2,3,\dots,\alpha,\dotsc)$
Since I'm not looking for much manual adjustments, I think a per paragraph solution would be nice. Any ideas, chat people?
 
8:13 PM
@Manuel With all due respect, I think automatic adjustments suck in this case. :)
I was recently converted, @egreg and @yo' did a pretty good job. :)
 
yo'
8:51 PM
@PauloCereda converted from what to what? :-O I'm no guilt, whatever it is :-D
 
@yo' something mathy I guess. :) Ducks have a short memory. :)
 
@PauloCereda What do you mean? I thought of defining the comma as math active, and then making it spit som sort of \mathpunct{\normalcomma}\allowbreak but I was hoping an “official” answer. The per paragraph solution is because I have problem with them in two or three paragraphs from a 100 hundred page document, but still, I think there should be an options so I don't have to input explicitly twenty \allowbreak.
 
Hi @egreg, I tried to comment again on your post, just wanted to say it also appears that the non-summation capital sigma early in the first equation might be in Computer Modern also.
 
@hftf I'm not sure about that, but anyway now it's surely the right one. I had temporarily deleted it.
 
@egreg Did you figure out whatever the issue was?
 
9:05 PM
@hftf I forgot no-math for fontspec.
 
@egreg gotcha. Both numerals and sigma look better now ;)
 
@Manuel I believe there's an answer of mine covering the feature you want.
 
I'll be back ~ten years from now when there's finally a good math font available :o)
 
@Manuel Here it is
12
A: "Allowing line break at ',' in inline math mode" breaks citations

egregWhen \cite tries to split the argument, it doesn't find the expected delimiter, which is a category 12 comma and is different from a category 13 comma. The correct way, other than using breqn is to make the comma "math active", just as it is done in the package icomma. \AtBeginDocument{% \mat...

@hftf OpenType Math is too young a field.
 
@egreg Did you see that the TeX Gyre people have 'finished'?
 
9:13 PM
@egreg Nice one. \mathchardef\mathcomma\mathcode\,` is nice, I guess; I used \mathchardef\normalcomma=\,` which in turn made me add \mathpunct{\normalcomma}, that's the idea behind using \mathcode\,` which lets you use just \mathcomma without \mathpunct isn't it?
 
@egreg I suppose until that time, I will have to just resort to describing math formulas using words – like the ancients – instead of using all kinds of fancy symbols; that'll be the only way to guarantee no bugs/flaws in math typesetting ;)
 
@egreg In any case, two subquestions. Why \discretionary{}{}{} instead of \allowbreak? And, a quick way of using it for next paragraph? I'm not used to \everypar{..} or so (just one command that affects the next paragraph, \breakatcommas).
 
@Manuel \discretionary{}{}{} adds a higher penalty than \allowbreak. Leave \everypar alone and use the breaking comma only where necessary.
 
@egreg But that's a pain. I have just one or two paragraphs with around 5 or 6 strings of more than 9 commas. Since I don't know exactly where I want it to break, and I don't want to create a macro for breaking commas… I guess I will have to play myself… or may be \def\breakatcommas#1\par{\begingroup\mathcode`\,="8000 #1\par\endgroup} if you don't want me messing with \everypar{..}?
In any case, I don't really know what difference it implies having higher penalty, but I will use \discretionary since is the one you used.
 
@Manuel Where's the problem in treating a list as a list instead of simply a math formula?
@Manuel The higher the penalty, the less is desirable to break there.
@JosephWright I hope not! Their fonts are terrible, except perhaps for Latin Modern and Termes Math.
 
9:28 PM
@egreg I'm lazy, and also I wanted to know what would be the standard way of setting math active for a paragraph. It's just that I didn't want to rewrite the code, just add \breakatcommas and forget about all.
@egreg Nice :)
 
@JosephWright The Theano font used for Greek is simply dreadful.
 
@egreg Complain at them not at me
 
@egreg How is it that you've not asked a single question on tex.sx? :^) You know everything?
 
@hftf I pretend to, usually it works. ;-)
 
10:32 PM
@hftf he doesn't understand the UI well enough to find the "ask" button
@JosephWright some movement in svn:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Yup
@DavidCarlisle Looks good from here
 
@JosephWright apart from the 7 (or 14 with xetex) broken tests;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Well yes
 
@JosephWright some floats are moving a bit more than I'd hoped, I wonder if we can tweak it a bit, but time's running out.
 
10:49 PM
May be you need something like this:
{\catcode`\,=13 \gdef,{\mathpunct{\mathchar`,}\penalty10 }
\def\breakatcommas{\bgroup\mathcode`,="8000 \def\par{\endgraf\egroup}}
 
yo'
11:08 PM
ok, so it seems that the journey back home will be interesting. Even after giving 23kg of stuff to someone else to bring to Prague, I'm left with ~19 kg of stuff (and counting...), with a 20kg limit. This bloomin' weight limits...
 
@yo' a coat with many pockets is what you need....
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle well, I've got unlimited hand luggage weight, as long as I can safely manipulate it and don't exceed the size limit. So I'll hopefully manage :-)
 
11:23 PM
@wipet Okey, that works too, and I'm not messing with \everypar nor grabbing an argument like \breakatcommas#1\par. That's nice. The \penalty10 is just symbolic, isn't it? Since we don't want a break unless necessary, it could be just \penalty1? No disadvantage versus the \discretionary{}{}{} version?
@wipet Will it even be okey to define \def\par{\endgroup\par}?
Oh! Shouldn't it be the opposite? \penalty9999 so it breaks as its last option?
 
@Manuel wipet's definition is safer as otherwise you end the group before ending the paragraph, so size and language changes may do the wrong thing. Of course neither is safe if you have anything fancy like a latex list in its scope as most thing are not going to accept par to end a group, but on constrained environments you're safe enough
 
yo'
@Manuel no, that wouldn't work of course
@Manuel 9999 is too harsh, I'd consider something like 300 appropriate.
 
@DavidCarlisle But there's nothing between the \endgroup and \par, so nothing can leak in there?
@yo' Why not? After the \endgroup, \par is the usual.
 
yo'
@Manuel ah yeah. Right
 
@yo' Given that by default it shouldn't break, why not tell TeX “okey, break here only if you have no other option”.
 
yo'
11:35 PM
@Manuel but the point is, do you want it to generate a warning?
 
@yo' I'm from the new school, .log don't exist to me.
@yo' Nah, the truth is, I don't know what I want, just not an overfull line :)
 
yo'
@Manuel well, whatever then
@Manuel yeah I see
 
@yo' My text editor does a good job and only shows me errors, hyperref warnings, and font warning, nothing else (I barely go to the .log).
 
yo'
@Manuel well, this should show as a warning :-)
 
@Manuel The usual FAQ of {\large one two three}\par being wrong and {\large one two three\par} being right
 
11:39 PM
@yo' Yet, I'm looking for the most perfect definition, in case there's one. Hence the question about \penalty9999 or \discretionary or whatever.
@DavidCarlisle Obvious one. I thought about it, but didn't see the obvious.
 
@Manuel wow, I look at the log far more than the typeset output. the latter is just for when the document is finished.
 
yo'
@Manuel you may want to use \penalty\numexpr\the\tolerance-1\relax since that won't imply a warning itself.
 
@Manuel I still can't see where adding \breakatcommas at the start of the paragraph is different from changing $<list>$ with \mathlist{<list>}, considering that the paragraph may have commas in math mode where you don't want to break.
 
@DavidCarlisle I'm a newbie from the new school. Don't expect me to master the art that fast. I use \meaning more than \show. I know part of the fault is the text editor that does a good job hiding the .log, although, on the other hand, I'm thankful.
@yo' Probably go for that one unless someone pronounces against it.
 
yo'
@egreg :-)
 
11:48 PM
@egreg As I said, pure laziness (and I was being truthful there). I do have some $<list>$ other $F(<list>)$ and some $\foo{<list>}$. With \penalty9999 or \penalty\numexpr\the\tolerance-1\relax I'm getting the best approximation (break if an only if necessary), while keeping the exact code.
 

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