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00:00
@barznjy I'm not saying miktex is bad, I have just never used it so can't say what it supports, and certainly egreg has never used it as he is in denial that windows exists at all.
@DavidCarlisle I will follow you hh
@DavidCarlisle Rumors that such a thing exists have reached me. But I think it's a hoax.
@DavidCarlisle do I need to uninstall MikTeX first before I install Texlive?
@barznjy no
@egreg it's probably because you don't use MS Paint that you haven't got a badge.
@barznjy or more exactly, I know nothing about miktex but I'm sure @JosephWright has both installed and seems to make things work.
@DavidCarlisle Yeah, definitely the best tool for pictures. My colleague who teaches theory of flight uses it all the time.
@DavidCarlisle I guess it's also extensively used by architects.
00:06
@egreg so I hear
00:18
@DavidCarlisle sure. :)
 
6 hours later…
06:16
@egreg Are you a Debian user? I should know the answer to this...
 
1 hour later…
07:42
@DavidCarlisle Yes I do :-)
@DavidCarlisle @barznjy MiKTeX does feature epstopdf
08:08
@FaheemMitha I have a couple of Debian based virtual machines for doing some tests; I never use them for other reasons.
@egreg Oh, so what is your main OS?
08:20
@FaheemMitha Happy Mac user since 1985.
@egreg Ah, OS X.
Currently, I mean.
Who packages TeX Live for OS X these days?
@FaheemMitha See tug.org/mactex
@egreg Oh. Thanks.
@DavidCarlisle I will have a look. Josephs suggestion for placeins (of course) works fine in memoir as well. I just have to figure out the stuff for the memoir replacement of \@doclearpage. I'm a bit tempted to just merge it with the definitions in the new ltxoutput.dtx where the two column stuff now use \@deferlist where it use to use \@dbldeferlist. If that is the proper fix and will also work with old LaTeX, then I don't see much of a problem doing that.
@DavidCarlisle, BTW do you guys have an MWE for the float sync problem in twocolum.
@DavidCarlisle, I'll see if I can figure out what it actually is memoir is doing to \@doclearpage and why.
09:14
@daleif in general it won't work with the old latex (unless you do all the changes all over the float handling)
@daleif yes I'll dig one out
@daleif the placeins fix you won't need in the end as I've put the setting of @dbldeferlist back so if you want to test you could put \gdef\@dbldeferlist{} before \dump in latex.ltx and rebuild the 2015 format
@DavidCarlisle This basically means that I need to do something with the memoir version of \@doclearpage. It still use \@dbldeferlist, but the new format will used the fixed \@doclearpage which should not have problems with float over in twocolumn. So either way I need to figure that one out.
@DavidCarlisle I saw that. But the test in the code should not hurt anyone ;-)
\makeatletter
\ifx\@dbldeferlist\@undefined\let\@dbldeferlist\@empty\fi% temp fix
\makeatother
\documentclass[twocolumn]{memoir}

\begin{document}

\begin{figure*}
\fbox{XXXXXXX}

\caption{xx}
\end{figure*}

\begin{figure}
\fbox{YYY}

\caption{yy}
\end{figure}

zzzzzz

\end{document}
@dalif ^^^ in 2014 figure 2 comes before 1, in 2015 it comes after
Hi guys. Still me ;-)
Well I'm trying to implement my title command. But this isn't working like expected.
In my LaTeX:
https://gist.github.com/wget/062b7148277558f6c865
My template class:
https://gist.github.com/wget/e4ae615d771c9bf6f9b1
(partial template class)
seems like I forgot to implement something, as I got in my document the value of the key too... Nothing seems interpreted.
09:35
@wget you have \renewcommand{\title}[2][]{ so define \title to take two arguments the first one optional, but that definition doesn't use either #1 or #2 so neither argument is used. Since you have used the syntax \title{a=b,c=d} I guess you want to declare \title with one argument and then you need to use #1 passing it to the key evaluator \setkeys{title}{#1}
09:47
@DavidCarlisle Yep indeed using only one argument is what I want.
Well I just added \setkeys{title}{#1} inside my renewcommand environment, but how can I get the value of the keys in statements like \define@key{title}{maintitle}{\def\@maintitle{{\Huge\textbf{#1}\par}\vspace{0.4c‌​m}}} ?
@wget too much code for chat, make a real example that doesn't involve off site links and post a question on site, that's what it's there for:-)
Ok. Gonna do that.
    % Restrict the commands to the internals of this class file.
    \def\@maintitle{}
    \def\@subtitle{}
    \def\@author{}

    \define@key{title}{maintitle}{\def\@maintitle{{\Huge\textbf{#1}\par}\vspace{0.4cm}}}
    \define@key{title}{subtitle}{\def\@subtitle{{\Large{#2}\par}}}
    \define@key{title}{author}{\def\@author{{\emph{Author: #3}\par}}}

    % The outer bracket is the renewcommand syntax, the inner one is a group definition avoiding \@author to leak out and be the default in later uses.
What I have in my class file ^
Ho wI intent to use it in my TeX documents
\documentclass{template}

\begin{document}
    \title{maintitle=Some long title, subtitle=My subtitle, author=My author}

\end{document}
Seems like I didn't get exactly how keyval is really working.
\define@key{title}{author}{\def\@author{{\emph{Author: #3}\par}}} that must give an error surely? You can only use #1 in a key #1 is the value passed in after the =
@wget ! Illegal parameter number in definition of \KV@title@author.
10:02
Yep this is what I'm thinking to now. But I cannot understand how keyval is parsing that argument and detecting #1 correspond to 3 parameters in practise.
Yep the is the error I get.
@wget It doesn't
@wget With \title{maintitle=Some long title, subtitle=My subtitle, author=My author} and keyval processing, each key is examined for a value, so for key maintitle #1 is Some long title
@wget you are just declaring a single key and every key is a one argument macro, \define@key{title}{author}{..#1} is just sugar around \def\kv@title@author#1{...#1} and author=xxx is really \kv@title@author{xxx}
@JosephWright I assume that each key are optional now? Or do they need to be all specificed?
@DavidCarlisle Then, what have I to put inside the author key implementation?
\define@key{title}{author}{\def\@author{{\emph{Author: #1}\par}}}
doesn't work either
@wget The whole point of keyval is that they are optional
@wget sorry no more in chat
wow google are cancelling googlecode...
so I suppose I have to move all my projects (I seem to have 5:(
@JosephWright @PauloCereda ^^^ github I suppose?
10:10
@DavidCarlisle Eek
@DavidCarlisle yep this is the intention.
With github, Git has clearly won over svn, mercurial and bazaar
@wget Yes
@wget I've got some github projects as well but I still prefer svn to git, mostly (although github is obviously a better project control site than googlecode)
@wget I moved my code from BitBucket to GitHub when the former stopped having Mercurial as the standard repo typo: writing on the wall
@DavidCarlisle So SourceForge for you, then?
@DavidCarlisle Thanks for the heads-up: have raised on the TeXworks mailing list
@DavidCarlisle I guess so
@JosephWright nah that used to be OK but is just horrible advert filled pain now. github it is I guess.
10:14
@DavidCarlisle At least in the TeX world that seems to be the standard, yes
@DavidCarlisle, @PauloCereda Interesting in light of yesterday's discussion re. Gitorious, isn't it
@JosephWright yes except I let that wash over me as I never knew what gitorious was, is it sort of like github?
@wget I think it's worth noting that SVN is likely to stay around for a long time (there are advantages) and Mercurial still has a lot of support, but Bazaar in particular I wouldn't fancy for the longer term
@DavidCarlisle Yes
@DavidCarlisle Or BitBucket
@DavidCarlisle I wonder if Assembla will go the same way (Morten's code is on that)
since google are providing an automatic tool to transfer to github I guess that is what most will do
@DavidCarlisle, I'm with David on that one. I still haven't learned to use git. My work offers a subversion server so that is what I use for everything. Have suited my fine so far. No need for special features. And I like the reversion numbers. They are easy to explain to the authors I coerce into using subversion
@JosephWright Yep SVN isn't gonna die soon. This isn't the same level of distribution and the same objective: centralized version control (inability to get back in the history without connection) vs Git which is distributed.
 % Redefine the title commmand

    % makeatletter and makeatother are unneeded in class files.
    %\makeatletter

    % Restrict the commands to the internals of this class file.
    \def\@maintitle{}
    \def\@subtitle{}
    \def\@author{}

    \define@key{title}{maintitle}{%
        \def\@maintitle{%
            \HRule%
            \vspace{0.4cm}
            % We always need to define \par in scope for a font size change, otherwise, if the title is ever longer than a line, it will wrap to the next line with huge characters on a normal baseline.
Seems like this is working properly now. Comments are welcome!
11:01
The Google Code Exporter is experiencing extremely high traffic. The export queue is full. Please come back later.
2
@JosephWright ^^^^ :-)
11:14
Do you know how I can detect if a command is being used. What I typically want to have is that if \simpletitle is set, adapt my title command to be a simple title and not a titling page.
`\ifx \simpleTitle \undefined\else % do stuff here\fi` seems to don't work, the same applies for the LaTeX command \ifdefined . Any idea?
I don't want to use yet another additional package to make such a (simple) condition.
@wget If \simpletitle works similarly to \title, so \simpletitle{Foo} does \def\@simpletitle{Foo}, you can initialize \@simpletitle with something like \let\@simpletitle\relax and then \ifx\@simpletitle\relax will return true if and only if \simpletitle has not been used.
@egreg Please note that simpletitle is my own command I want to declare not the one from a titling package or whatever.
And that command will be used rom the user side of my class. So restricting its access with @ isn't really the best solution I think.
@wget If you have in the class or style file \newcommand{\simpletitle}[1]{\gdef\@simpletitle{#1}} the user has not to cope with @-commands.
11:30
@egreg Why do we need to use the declaration with @, why can't we use the \newcommand directly?
@wget Since I don't know what you want to do with \simpletitle, I assumed it's something similar to \title.
@DavidCarlisle Run away!
@wget Quite
@egrep that command will act like a boolean. If the command is present i.e. the user specified \simpletitle, then my \title command will adapt itself automatically and won't act like a titling page, but as a standard title.
@wget why don't you just use etoolbox? I saved so many lines of code when I rewrote our University Business Letter template using etoolbox.
yo'
yo'
11:56
@wget some good programmer's finger memory has struck you with @egreg vs. egrep :D
@yo' LOL, I was thinking the same thing, especially considering his display name. :-)
@JosephWright seeing just the shortened URL, I thought it was going to be a link to RMS' recent Wired article... but this will be a good read. Bookmarked for later.
That headline leading tho... xD
yo'
yo'
12:20
R.I.P. Sir Terry :-(
@yo' indeed ;D I thought it was a real original nickname, but actually it was a typo ;-)
yo'
yo'
@wget :D
My nickname being a UNIX command, it's enough for this channel ;-)
yo'
yo'
@wget needed to say, it's a TeX.SX meme it seems: chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=egrep&room=41
anyways, it's coffee time, see you later.
12:49
@JosephWright Two spam messages by the same poster in a few minutes. :( tex.stackexchange.com/questions/232890/…
@egreg Zapped
@egreg Interesting: not the usual IP range for spam
13:15
Any idea why when I use \myMacro in my document, I don't have the expected result?
\newcommand{\myMacro}[1]{\def\@simpletitle{}}

\ifx\@simpletitle\undefined
Undefined
\else
Defined
\fi
(that code is in my cls template)
@wget again why not etoolbox? Much much more robust tests.
@wget and is there a difference if it is defined or if it is empty? if the user just used \myMacro{} ?
@daleif In my use case \myMacro should be equal to \myMacro{}
It's only when that macro is present, I want my condition to be executed.
@daleif like I said, I may (and will) be using just a ridiculous subset of etoolbox and I don't think loading yet another package would be great. Especially as my compilation is taking already a huge time, and don't want to add delay to it. But if your package is REALLY efficient why not ;-)
@wget if you do that in the document the definition is defining \@ and the test is testing \@ against s
@wget presumably you are expecting the wrong thing
@David \myMacro would only be in my document, the rest of the aforementioned code (conditon) will be in my class file in the \AtBeginDocument{%
@wget Then it might be an idea to have a look at why it is taking so long. As I mentioned above. etoolbox wastly simplified the class I was writing and made the UI much more robust. For instance for a colophon a user can now remove an entry by saying, say \mobile{}, then no mobile is listed. \mobile{ } give the same.
13:23
@wget well presumably it is defined when you don't expect it to be or not defined when you do. But I can't guess what you expect and questions should have a complete example that demonstrates the problem, and be on site
@daleif I already know why this is so long: a bunch of images (internship report), using xetex and translation packages to be able to write in FRench and English depending on the section.
@wget Probably etoolbox is already loaded :-)
@JosephWright The packages which are included in my class file:
xkeyval
babel
fontspec
amssymb
geometry
titlesec
parskip
listings
epigraph
datetime
fancyhdr
biblatex
csquotes
longtable
tabu
booktabs
graphicx
float
menukeys
xkeyval
hyperref
@wget Yup, you'll have etoolbox: loaded by csquotes certainly (same author)
@wget Also by biblatex
@wget Package loading is typically very fast
@wget You'll also have expl3 and its a much bigger bundle (used by fontspec, for example)
@wget To see what you have, add \listfiles to your preamble and look at the end of the log
Yep. Indeed, I remember the trick.
(that command)
@JosephWright Otherwise, are there any way to write that (I assume) tricky condition in plain TeX?
I can't realize TeX couldn't do that easily.
In my class file:
\newcommand{\myMacro}[1]{\def\@simpletitle{}}

\ifx\@simpletitle\undefined
Undefined
\else
Defined
\fi
In my document:
\documentclass{template}

\begin{document}

    \title[maintitle=Some long title, subtitle=My subtitle, author=My author]
        \myMacro
\end{document}
13:35
29
Q: Test whether token list is empty

Charles StewartIs it possible to test whether a token list register is empty without expanding it?

40
A: What does \ifx\\#1\\ stand for?

egregIt's one of the uncountable ways to check whether an argument is empty. Almost all of them suffer of some drawback: in the case at hand, the argument mustn't be \\. What does \ifx do? It compares the two tokens following it, without expanding them. The test return success if both tokens are equa...

and so on
@JosephWright Something strange happened at tex.stackexchange.com/questions/36034/… The same answer as morbusg's appeared with an unnamed poster.
@wget so \mymacro will define \@simpletitle but your test is in the class file so will always try to typeset Undefined and generate an error. What did you hope it would do?
@egreg Spam account
@wget why are you defining \mymacro to take an argument which is never used?
In your document you have \myMacro\end{document} so \myMacro discards \end and then {document} just gets typeset.
@wget when switch them off while you mess with the rest. Or perhaps make lower quality versions og the same size, that does not take so long to load. There are many ways to optimize.
13:51
@DavidCarlisle Yes, it's in my class file but in the \AtBeginDocument{ LaTeX hook. ;-)
And obviously I have chapter and section, etc. so \myMacro seems to not discard the \end statement
@DavidCarlisle And the second unused argument is a typo I forgot to correct from my old \title reimplementation ;-)
@wget well why make people guess the order of things instead of making an example that shows the problem?
@wget It discards whatever token follows which is \end in the example posted above. In other cases it will of course discard something else.
@wget second? I was asking why it was not using #1
14:25
The spammers are getting creative today; using a real developer's name... xD
@PaulGessler Indeed
@JosephWright did you like my siunitx answer?
@JosephWright seems to be a lot more junk today than usual. Friday the 13th? Glitch in the Matrix?
@PaulGessler people finding somewhere other than googlecode to send the junk?
@DavidCarlisle must be... how many repos will you need to migrate?
14:32
@PaulGessler Well, it earned me three votes to my answer on tail recursion reversal of token lists. ;-)
@PaulGessler 5 according to the mail I got, although a couple I'll just drop, but I need to find a new home for important stuff like xii.tex
@egreg the law of unintended consequences, that. :-)
yo'
yo'
@DavidCarlisle GitHub allows 3-letter repo names it seems, so you should be fine :-)
@yo' that's in dpctex same repro as xmltex, tabulary, colortbl and longtable v5 etc pain really I hope the history all converts cleanly....
@DavidCarlisle Hmm, when I test with a copy of TL14 where I applied the 2ebuild changes to and rebuild the formats, I still get fig 2 on page 1 and fig 1 on page 2. Regardless of
\makeatletter
\ifx\@dbldeferlist\@undefined\let\@dbldeferlist\@empty\fi% temp fix
\makeatother
or the \gdef addition to latex.ltx plus rebuild formats
14:41
there is some spam here tex.stackexchange.com/a/232910/7712
yo'
yo'
@Maïeul zapped, thanks
@daleif hmm the dbldefer list just lets memoir load without error where it sets up the placeins stuff but you should get, in a real tl2014 page 1: fig 0.2 at top, zzzz text, page 2: fig 0.1 centred. with 2015 you should get (I get) page1: zzz text, page 2: fig 0.1 at top, fig 0.2 below that
@DavidCarlisle I get exactly the same results as normal TL4. I must have applied the 2ebuild files wrong somehow.
what does it say if you add \show\extrafloats
@DavidCarlisle Yes, was about to post the same
@egreg :-)
@DavidCarlisle It's issues, etc. that tend to be lost in migration
14:49
@JosephWright my packages never have issues
@DavidCarlisle That's OK then
@JosephWright could you sanity check the float order in 2015 for this:
5 hours ago, by David Carlisle
\makeatletter
\ifx\@dbldeferlist\@undefined\let\@dbldeferlist\@empty\fi% temp fix
\makeatother
\documentclass[twocolumn]{memoir}

\begin{document}

\begin{figure*}
\fbox{XXXXXXX}

\caption{xx}
\end{figure*}

\begin{figure}
\fbox{YYY}

\caption{yy}
\end{figure}

zzzzzz

\end{document}
@DavidCarlisle D'oh, I applied them to my production system, F****
Never place production and test system side by side
3
@DavidCarlisle Looks OK here
15:02
@DavidCarlisle This one I can compile. The trick of adding \gdef\@dbldeferlist{} before \dump in latex.ltx does not seem to be working. If I directly test for it before \documentclass it says it is not defined.
I also get errors when I run fmtutil-sys --all, but they are about luatex and xetex so that should not matter, as I'm testing with pdflatex
Are there any OTF sans math fonts?
@AlanMunn if there are, I haven't been able to find one. :-( See also: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/224144/…
@PaulGessler That seems to be my conclusion too.
@daleif hmm how far before \dump did you put it:
\makeatother
\errorstopmode
\dump
@daleif ^^^ putting it before \makeatother would be good
@DavidCarlisle 1min
15:14
@daleif what does \show\@ say?
That was better
And both figures end up on page 2 in the right order.
@AlanMunn but all the unicode math fonts should have a sans alphabet starting at U+1d5a0
@daleif so now is it clear what memoir was doing with 2 col floats, and if it's still working?
@DavidCarlisle it is absolutely not clear to me why memoir need its own copy of \@doclearpage. I'll look at that this weekend. But it does seem to compile. Will check some of my projects.
@daleif I'll try and look too, but tomorrow I'm here all day:
Next question, since this will change existing documents (for the better), how does one get the old behaviour back?
@DavidCarlisle nice
15:21
@daleif \RequirePackage[2014/05/01]{latexrelease} (or actually any date between 0000/00/00 and 2015/01/01
@DavidCarlisle How can that be used to make all math sans?
@DavidCarlisle Interesting. That does not quite give the same results for memoir. New format + latexrelease 2014/05/01 gives fig2 on first page bottom of col 1. TL14 unchanged (latexrelease removed from sources) gives fig2 on page 1 top of col 1. I'm guessing it is the \mem@doclearpage that is at play.
I'll stop here for today. Later....
15:39
@AlanMunn what do you mean by "all" in this context, with unicode-math \mathsf{abc + 123 = xyz} all the letters are sans, the symbols are not except they didn't have serifs to start with.
Please take a moment and look at this very beutiful solution that I got from Andrew Swann, tex.stackexchange.com/questions/232916/…
I love this place! :)
@DavidCarlisle I.e., without having to use \mathsf explicitly. So the equivalent of using the sansmath package but with unicode-math.
@AlanMunn I made an answer about that on site the other day (saying don't do it) with a classic tex \mathxxx it's fairly easy to default to any as you just have to put \everymath{\fam=6} or some such but unicode-math's version it has to step through token by token changing X to U+1d5a0 and similarly for every other letter/digit, so hiding the macro form is harder/more fragile
5
A: How to make all math bold by default in LuaLaTeX

David Carlisle\boldmath selects the bold math version which would have bold versions of most or some of the math fonts set up in the "usual" math groups. However latin modern math has no bold font so this doesn't do anything useful here. Normally \boldmath just affects alphabetic characters and selects the bo...

@AlanMunn ^^
@DavidCarlisle We'll need to alter that date :-)
@JosephWright well we could, I have sort of got used to it:-)
15:48
@DavidCarlisle I don't actually want to do it myself, but there's a person using beamer who is having trouble and I'm trying to figure out what would a useful solution for him.
@DavidCarlisle OK, also a reasonable position (easy to remember)
@AlanMunn beamer? Oh one for @JosephWright then
@DavidCarlisle Oh drat
@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright Well it's not a beamer problem per se. But the interaction of the realscripts package with however beamer does sans math.
Here's the question if anyone has some ideas:
1
Q: Beamer with xltxtra: colliding characters in equation

lenzI'm typesetting beamer with XeLaTeX. In equations, variable characters collide with their superscripts. Also, the parenthesised variable looks somewhat off-set – too far to the right. It looks good when compiled with pdflatex (or just without xltxtra, but that's not an option for other reasons). ...

16:07
Off Topic?
1
Q: Trouble with mupad export to eps

gtrublI have exported a graphic to eps format from Matlab/mupad after replacing axis latin labels with greek symbols within mupad itself. After calling the eps doc in LaTeX, and using dvi, I see that the exporter has replaced greek with latin in the graphic. I have verified this replacement by opening ...

if i can't reproduce a user's problem, should i just suggest they update or change something with their system?
@aeroNotAuto Clicking My title jumps to the title page 1/4.
16:23
@Johannes_B i don't understand, do you mean that i am able to reproduce the op's problem?
@aeroNotAuto Well, two against one and you are running the older beamer (i have beamer.cls 2015/01/05 3.36 fromyesterday or the day before)
@aeroNotAuto My initial thought was, no, just because you cannot reproduce the problem, doesn't mean its the OPs fault. Seems to be true just now ;-)
@Johannes_B as in, it's a beamer bug? when you click the section headers, it also doesn't do anything?
@aeroNotAuto One sec, i misread the question/comments.
@Johannes_B ah, okay, i was sort of confused lol
@Johannes_B There might be a solution with psfrag.
16:28
@aeroNotAuto I just extended the example with a few frames, but still, klicking on the header links (with evince0 nothing happens.
@aeroNotAuto Same with zathura
@aeroNotAuto The links seems to target the same frame.
@Johannes_B with evince, which links target which frame for you? the op says when they try, the links do nothing
@aeroNotAuto I just tested with okular and couldn't get it to full screen. Clicking on a link was jumping to the begininng of the frame.
@aeroNotAuto if you are in full screen mode, it appears as nothing is happening, i thought the same.
@Johannes_B oh, i'm not trying in full screen mode
@Johannes_B but when i reproduced the problem with adobe acrobat x in windows, i also wasn't in full screen mode
@aeroNotAuto I am not quite sure i understand th eproblem anymore.
@Johannes_B i think their problem is they click the headers and nothing happens
@Johannes_B it seems to just be an acrobat thing, unless you've been able to reproduce it in okular
16:41
@aeroNotAuto Which i can confirm, running in full screen mode. If the link links to the same frame, what output should change? I think they can see nothing happening, because nothing is supposed to happen.
@Johannes_B well right, i assume they're clicking the link on a slide that is not the last slide, so it doesn't link to the same frame? are you thinking the different pdf readers interpret the link destination differently?
@aeroNotAuto Pdf readers are known to be strange. I am also running an early dev version of zathura which is somehow always in what the hack do i care-random mode.
@Johannes_B haha
@Johannes_B also, i just tried evince in full screen mode on this windows machine (works fine) and presentation mode - i can reproduce the problem in presentation mode
@aeroNotAuto What can you reproduce? Please describe it. i feel a bit lost now.
@Johannes_B in presentation mode, and only presentation mode so far, i can click the section/subsection headers and they the slides don't change. this is with evince on both machines (windows/linux)
16:49
@AlanMunn What type of dictionary? The sample file sample-langdict.tex produces a French<->English dictionary. There are some examples of different glossary styles on my gallery.
@aeroNotAuto Isn't that exactly what the OP sees?
@aeroNotAuto And me?
@Johannes_B but in presentation mode, the footer link for the title works fine. in...
@aeroNotAuto Yes, it does.
@Johannes_B yes. i was saying i can reproduce what you're seeing, but only in presentation mode. in full screen mode and regular mode it works fine
@aeroNotAuto I meant presentation mode ;-)
16:51
@NicolaTalbot Yes, I saw that. But I think for what I want I can do it with datatool. glossaries is really more for dealing with things within a text, whereas what I have in mind is a standalone dictionary.
@Johannes_B yea. i'm having a look at infolines...
@NicolaTalbot A sample:
@AlanMunn How are you sorting the entries? If it's a big dictionary it'll be slow using TeX to sort. I think with a standalone dictionary it's probably simplest to sort it yourself.
(at the same time as typesetting it)
@NicolaTalbot Yes, that's what will be done. Put everything in a spreadsheet and then use datatool to format the entries. (That's how the sample was produced.)
@AlanMunn In which case I suggest you use datatooltk to sort the entries. It will be much quicker that using just datatool.
16:56
@NicolaTalbot The entries can be sorted in the spreadsheet I think, so sorting won't be too much of an issue.
@AlanMunn Loading the data into datatool may also be an issue if you have a big database.
@NicolaTalbot Yes I thought about that. What kind of limits are there?
@AlanMunn I wrote up some stuff about it in this answer.
@AlanMunn There's not really a limit as such (unless you exceed TeX's buffer size, which is unlikely to happen with modern TeX distributions) but the contents of the register holding the data are pulled apart and put back together again every time a new entry is added, which really slows things down with the more data you have.
@NicolaTalbot I see. Ok. This is something I'm helping someone else with who doesn't actually use LaTeX, and I'm trying to figure out a bit of a turnkey solution.
@AlanMunn Okay. As long as you don't mind a slow compile time, datatool should work fine.
17:24
@NicolaTalbot I'm going to try and get Bruno onto data structures: it's pretty clear for large ones a hash table based approach is best
@JosephWright It certainly would be useful to have a more efficient way of dealing with large data.
@JosephWright, @DavidCarlisle: GitHub or BitBucket it is, I guess.
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Hi @Paulo, how're you? :-)
@yo' Hi Tom! :) In a hurry in SP, but fine. :) And you?
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@PauloCereda everything quite ok :)
17:32
@PauloCereda I think GitHub is the 'LaTeX default' (have raised this with Vedran for beamer, which is currently on BitBucket)
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I start to be a bit sentimental about my leaving from Paris ...
@NicolaTalbot BTW, I am working on that proof reading!
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@JosephWright I think this supports your statement :-)
16
Q: Who has a GitHub, Bitbucket, other code profile?

Sam WhitedIn the style of Who are the package maintainers here? and other big-list questions, I was wondering who here (package maintainer or no) has a GitHub, Bitbucket, CTAN author page, Launchpad, or other place where they keep a portfolio of their code (some of which is bound to be TeX in this communit...

@JosephWright Thanks! :-) It turned out to be a lot larger than I had originally planned!
@yo' Yes: may as well remove the Gitorious and Google Code columns!
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17:34
What is (was?) Gitorious?
@JosephWright Namely David and me. :P
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@PauloCereda columns, not rows, you fool!
:D
is anybody familiar with \message{} and how it works?
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@aeroNotAuto tug.org/utilities/plain/cseq.html#message-rp but why would you use a TeX primitive? Both LaTeX2e and LaTeX3 have wrappers around it.
17:49
@yo' there are probably better ways to debug lol, i'm certainly open to hearing them
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@aeroNotAuto depends on what you're debugging: @David's favourite is \tracingall :-)
@yo' i'm trying to figure out what the value of a variable is but it's a few files deep (beamerbasenavigation.sty) and \message{} doesn't print anything to the log when i compile the presentation...will any of these wrappers?
@yo' ...google-ing \tracingall...
18:06
@yo' ohmygosh, this produces a ton of output. is there not a simple way for me to print one line to the log? just the variable value from the line of code i'm looking at?
@aeroNotAuto Tracing beamer needs particular care
@JosephWright oh, do you have advice for how to get started or a resource i can go look at?
@aeroNotAuto Not really!
@JosephWright lol yay!
18:11
@aeroNotAuto Context: I'm the current maintainer of beamer
@JosephWright ...oh lol
@aeroNotAuto depending on what this "variable" is, you can use \show, \the, or \showthe to print its value (at the spot invoked) to the log file.
@PaulGessler can i combine these with some custom text so that i don't have to search the log file line by line?
@aeroNotAuto that's what the LaTeX wrappers around \message{} are for
@PaulGessler oh, so that puts me back to square one. i've been using \message{}, and it works fine in my beamer document, but the variable i'm looking at is in beamerbasenavigation.sty
18:15
@aeroNotAuto have you told anyone here what this variable is that you're looking at?
@PaulGessler \message{} doesn't appear to print anything to the log file when i place it that many files deep?
@PaulGessler lol no, i mean it's just an argument
@PaulGessler trying to troubleshoot for this question
@aeroNotAuto \show\some@variable@name?
@aeroNotAuto you still haven't told us what you actually want to see... but I'm guessing you need something like A frame of subsection 2.1\show\insertsubsectionhead
@DavidCarlisle i guess i should use different wording, i'm trying to display the value of an argument on a line in beamerbasenavigation.sty, and get it to print to the log when i compile my beamer mwe. i tried \show\##2, \the##2, and \showthe##2 to no avail
@aeroNotAuto don't edit the distribution's files: just put it in the document you're testing at the spot you want to see its value!
18:25
@PaulGessler my intention isn't to edit the distribution file permanently
@aeroNotAuto \def\z{#2}\show\z or if you know it is a single token \show#2
@DavidCarlisle \def\testvariable{##2}\show\testvariable didn't appear to do very much when i diff-ed the logs
@aeroNotAuto if \show didnt make tex stop at that point then that point was not executed
@PaulGessler i'm not sure how to test at the spot i'd like to see it's value, for that i'd need a way to pause execution and step into the function right?
@DavidCarlisle interesting, okay. that's good to know, thank you
@PaulGessler what i'm trying to see i guess is what gets executed when the infolines section header is clicked, so i can redefine it and see if that changes behavior
@aeroNotAuto that's what \show does
@aeroNotAuto "clicked"?? nothing in tex tracing or \show is going to tell you about interactive behaviour of the pdf file, you are tracing the generation of the pdf, not viewing of it???
18:32
@DavidCarlisle no, i know, i'm looking for the \hyperlink that's used
@aeroNotAuto well in that case I can't guess what you mean by the above:-)
@DavidCarlisle i was able to redefine \hyperlinkpresentationstart{}, for example, and that seems to work as expected
@DavidCarlisle but i tried redefining things like \hyperlinksectionstartnext{} and it didn't seem to change the behavior when the section name in the header gets clicked. i guess these are kind of shots in the dark.
@aeroNotAuto so do \show\hyperlink... I get this in the log: vvv
@aeroNotAuto one trick I do is to add \show\x \show\z .... at points I think are being executed, and see which ones get reported...
> \hyperlink=macro:
->\beamer@sort {\beamerx@\hyperlink }{2}.
\beamer@doifinframe ...ection 2.1\show \hyperlink
                                                  \end {beamer@frameslide}
l.47 \end{frame}
18:51
@PaulGessler maybe i'm in over my head, or going about this the wrong way...i did get what you just showed to work, but i'd have to guess which hyperlink is being defined in the section header. i was trying to do the reverse i guess: i see that beamerouterthemeinfolines.sty uses \insertsectionhead for the section header, so i assume that defines the hyperlink, and i was trying to step down into the macros that way?
@aeroNotAuto I'm working on it :-)
Should we add a tag ?
5
0
Q: How will the LaTeX3 format look?

GausslerCan someone give me an idea (if it is at all possible) about how the document structure will be in the LaTeX3 format. Will it still start with a \documentclass and use \begin{document} ... \end{document}, will we still load a list (hopefully shorter) of packages in the preamble, etc.? And will t...

@JosephWright oh lol okay. i'll hang tight. was just trying to understand
@aeroNotAuto yep, looking at \show\insertsectionhead is how I got down to \show\hyperlink. This is at the limit of my knowledge, someone else probably has a better idea.
@JosephWright you should know this stuff off the top of your head! ;-)
@egreg lol. while we're at it, i looked for the tag 'hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia' the other day and was almost hopeful i'd find it.
18:59
@PaulGessler Gotcha
@aeroNotAuto beamer bug
@JosephWright oh okay
@aeroNotAuto Probably more useful. ;-)
@egreg haha yea i think that tag would only be used once. crystal ball might be a favorite.
@aeroNotAuto Fix for beamer will go to CTAN over the weekend (I'm waiting for some info from my co-maintainer at the moment on a separate issue)
@JosephWright okay, can that \edef go in the preamble of an old/current beamer doc to make this work?
19:07
@JosephWright I was just joking of course, I hope I haven't offended.
@aeroNotAuto Well yes but you'll need quite a bit of code
@PaulGessler Huh?
@JosephWright oh i see, not just that line. and it looked like @PaulGessler made a joke before, but your response of 'gotcha' was an unexpected response lol
@JosephWright I just wasn't sure how to read "gotcha" in response to chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/20533301#20533301
@PaulGessler I meant 'Eureka'
@JosephWright ok, all's well then. :-)
19:16
@aeroNotAuto Let me come up with a patch-based version
@JosephWright oh don't go through that effort on my account, i was just trying to help the op
Following up on the BitBucket move from Mercurial to Git as a favoured DVCS, I came across blogs.atlassian.com/2012/03/git-vs-mercurial-why-git
20:05
Can anyone reproduce this behavior in other browsers/platforms? vvv
0
Q: Raw https links are prettified in the actual post, but not in the preview

Paul GesslerWhen editing another user's post, I noticed that raw https links to locations on the SE Network are not prettified in the previewer in the same way http links are. When actually submitting the change and viewing the live post, the links (both https and http) are prettified as expected. So the pr...

Comments on the question appreciated if you have time to test. :-)
20:34
Tired
0
Q: How to draw quivers?

krirkrirkI'm trying to draw graphs and especially quivers, for instance the quiver made of one vertice and one loop upon it. A simple way please ? (PS. not sure about the tag)

@JosephWright Since the dawn of time (1970), geeks have fought a long and bloody war between right and wrong; good and evil; Vim and Emacs.
@DavidCarlisle haha i wonder if those adjectives were placed in relative order
@DavidCarlisle That sentence was great.
21:00
@DavidCarlisle Indeed
@aeroNotAuto So did I
@JosephWright rest of it was less interesting, more a git-is-better-than-mecurial diatribe:-)
21:16
@JosephWright still no chance of trying the google export thing, probably I should leave it a week...
22:07
This looks like a dupe to me:
1
Q: TeX system for Macintosh, recommendations

JohnIn I want to start using LaTeX on Mac OS X. Where do I start?, the OP asked about a recommendation for a set of tools to use LaTeX on a Mac. But that was 4 years ago, and the landscape may have changed. I'm hoping to install LaTeX on a Mac as well. I have a few idiosyncracies: I will be worki...

22:23
@JosephWright part of it is a dupe of the linked question, another part is a dupe of the IDE question, and another part is... I don't know. In short, I'm not sure what to do with it, lol
This is a nice self-answer. If all on site would be that verbose ...
2
A: Problem with subcaption spacing

Erlend GraffAfter Johannes_b pointed me in the right direction, it turned out that using \captionsetup[subtable]{position=auto} fixes the spacing in all four cases. Long answer After some experimentation, it seemed to me that the \caption of the outer table environment somehow affected the \caption used in...

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22:45
@Johannes_B commented! :)
@PaulGessler Ad "TUG talk": it seems that half of your posts are about TikZ. Maybe you have got some nice "TikZ dirty clean tricks" that would be worth sharing? :)
@yo' thanks
23:07
@yo' I'm not sure what's worth sharing, that's the problem. I would present about my git graph project, but I've had no time to work on it recently and I don't know if I could complete it in time. :-(
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@PaulGessler I see
23:30
@yo' eh, you know what, I'm going to go for it. :-) Nothing like a little pressure to get something done and out the door, right? ;-)
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@PaulGessler I'll need to do the abstract as well, but before, I gotta finish a math paper, prepare a talk on it and do loads and loads of other stuff :D
@first migration out of googlecode underway....
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@DavidCarlisle congratulations for making it through :)
@yo' hope it works it's taking an awful long time for a one person project that's just some inputenc experiments with hardly any history,
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23:46
@DavidCarlisle well, one thing I like about GitHub: the sources are mirrored in your own computer. The wikis and issues are not, which could be painful, but still, this is nice.

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