TeX, LaTeX and Friends

subham soni

02:51

Hi

When I use \usepackage[osf]{mathpazo}

not all the numerals in the document are not modified

only few

the code is available here : tex.stackexchange.com/questions/173499/…

what to do???

Will Robertson

06:35

@egreg I was using gmdoc for a while because I started getting tired of the DTX syntax. At some point, gmdoc kinda broke and I switched to a very quickly slapped together replacement that doesn't do anything near as clever but still allows decent typesetting of .sty code. (See the pstool package.)

Were some of you lot writing a unit testing framework for LaTeX code in the last couple of years? (I'd like to revive my fontspec test suite, which up until now using a pixel-by-pixel comparison to check for regressions. Too many false negatives.) I scoured my email but couldn't come up with just the right keywords to search for.

Joseph Wright

06:48

@WillRobertson :-)

Joseph Wright

08:50

@DavidCarlisle Fixing those LaTeX2e bugs? :-)

Hopefully @WillRobertson will get on with the LaTeX3 ones :-)

We just need Frank to turn up now!

1

Q: Are questions for best practices on-topic?

The title says it all: Are questions about best practices on-topic? To give some context, I think that it is fair to ask the question in tex.stackexchange.com why the commonly cited best practice in TeX editing to split your document into sub-files for the chapters/sections is actually a best pr...

I'm thinking 'yes': others?

egreg

09:26

@JosephWright I too, so I answered

Paulo Cereda

10:52

@WillRobertson I'm working on it. :) Kind of. :)

Johannes_B

@JosephWright Definitely

Paulo Cereda

11:04

@JosephWright Are questions on best practices for best practices on topic? :)

Paulo Cereda

11:18

Was there any cake yesterday? :)

egreg

12:30

@PauloCereda Budino di cioccolata, for me.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Having chocolate, count me in. :)

David Carlisle

14:04

@JosephWright just about done for this time, I think

cgnieder

@PauloCereda @Johannes_B Thanks very much! :) How did you know?

Paulo Cereda

14:21

@cgnieder A duck told me. :)

cgnieder

@PauloCereda I guess you have your ducks everywhere (collecting information and eating breadcrumbs) ;)

Paulo Cereda

@cgnieder Oh no, my master plan was spotted!

Paulo Cereda

15:06

@DavidCarlisle When will the next batch happen? :)

Stephan Lehmke

@PauloCereda 2026, naturally.

David Carlisle

@StephanLehmke probably

Paulo Cereda

15:23

@StephanLehmke Seems legit. :)

@David: make sure @Joseph gets a gnats ID until that date, so you can blame him. :)

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Down to Rainer (Schoepf), not David, I think :-)

@egreg I see you've got TL2014 working too (from the LuaTeX question)

egreg

@JosephWright Yes. I installed it last week.

@JosephWright When will the update to LaTeX2e be uploaded?

Joseph Wright

@egreg We've been told 1st May is the deadline to ensure testing can be done before final TL2014 DVD freeze date

@egreg Tests all seem to pass for the checkins to date: @DavidCarlisle (or @frankmittelbach) will know more

@egreg I also want to get some stuff checked in to expl3 and update CTAN for the same deadline: will do my best

0

Q: TeX Live 2013 tlmgr fails when trying to update -- TeX Live 2013 frozen

When running tlmgr updateerror all (with TeX Live 2013 distribution) in Windows OS, I get the following message: TeX Live 2013 is frozen forever and will no longer be updated. This happens in preparation for a new release. If you're interested in helping to pretest the new release (when pretes...

texlive

Do we need to generalise one or other of the questions on this, as it comes up every year?

egreg

@JosephWright I marked it as duplicate of the 2011 one.

@JosephWright Maybe changing the title of that one?

Joseph Wright

@egreg That's what I was wondering about, more or less

egreg

15:32

@JosephWright Removing 2011 from the title?

Joseph Wright

@egreg Yes, something like that. Perhaps needs some meta-discussion first?

egreg

With a search based on "frozen forever" one should be able to find it.

Joseph Wright

@egreg Yes: TeX Live + frozen + tlmgr

egreg

@JosephWright tex.stackexchange.com/search?q=frozen+forever

s__C

15:46

2cents question : which one between plain TeX and ConteXt would be the most worth learning? It has already been told that ConteXt is still in active development. On the other side no risk with plain TeX development. Or should I just stick to LaTeX? (maybe I'll have to learn it all again once LaTeX 3 is released)

Joseph Wright

@s__C Depends what you want to do

s__C

Avoid becoming an hipster @JosephWright?

Joseph Wright

@s__C I mean what is it you are interested in: for 'basics' perhaps learn plain, if you want a more consistent system but with more typographic control than is easy in LaTeX, learn ConTeXt, ...

s__C

the thing with ConTeXt (I've done some experiments with it) is the lack of documentation, except the reference manual basically

so maybe ConTeXt is the way to go

Joseph Wright

16:02

@s__C They do lack the 'solid books' that both plain and LaTeX have, but on the other hand they have a very helpful user community on their mailing lsit

s__C

IMO mailing list is like spamming as you can't follow all what's going

Joseph Wright

@s__C I've never had a problem with lists: which reader do you use?

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright: this semester I'm heavily studying compilers. It's so awesome to check the TeX way of providing expansions. :)

s__C

normal web page @JosephWright

Joseph Wright

@s__C Ah: you do need a proper mail client for these things

@PauloCereda Indeed?

s__C

16:04

nah but when I was enroled it was gmail @JosephWright

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright ye. :)

Joseph Wright

@s__C Still not a proper client

Paulo Cereda

@Joseph: will David be my potential postdoc supervisor (if I ever survive PhD)? :)

s__C

what do you mean @JosephWright? what could I use?

Joseph Wright

@s__C Thunderbird is my choice: there are others :-)

s__C

16:05

thunderbird is nothing else than a mail client a la outlook

Paulo Cereda

@s__C So you have a mail client. :)

Joseph Wright

@s__C Well, better than Outlook but yes, it's a proper mail client

You can almost certainly use Emacs :-)

s__C

I just wanted to check if I was speaking with mutt users...

Joseph Wright

@s__C Mutt is another one

(Never used it myself)

Of course, king of the mail clients is Pine

But for that you need to be able to log in to the server

s__C

well well

egreg

16:13

@PauloCereda Did you see the book by Victor Eijkhout?

tacc-web.austin.utexas.edu/veijkhout/public_html/Articles/…

3

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Cool! Let me check it. :)

s__C

is it quite common to have LaTeX lectures in the US?

Paulo Cereda

@egreg: very nice!

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Yup

@egreg When did you find this?

egreg

@JosephWright Some years ago. There was a “reprint” with a notice on comp.text.tex some months ago, IIRC.

Joseph Wright

16:16

@egreg Ah, right

Joseph Wright

16:29

Installed TL2014 on my Windows (Parallels) rig, to be sure I'm testing correctly for the LaTeX2e release

@s__C I'm also interested by that: I suspect here in the UK it's a definite 'no'

David Carlisle

16:43

@egreg Frank and I need to find all the bugs Joseph's added first (or something)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Tar

David Carlisle

@JosephWright you seem safe so far:-)

Joseph Wright

16:59

@DavidCarlisle Cool

@DavidCarlisle I like your solution to the failing test file :-)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright there is an identical one with same name in tools/testfiles:-)

@JosephWright do they all pass for you apart from the csname endcsname in tl2014? I think I've got all the bat files working now in cygwin but have a cyrguide.pdf I can't delete (weird permissions unwritable by anyone) (I'd forgotten we have required/cyrillic :-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Installing TL2014 for Windows: give me around 1 hour!

@DavidCarlisle They all pass with TL2013, I think

@DavidCarlisle The failing file for TL2014 is an L3 one (tests run there both on Windows and *nix)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright sounds good, we still need to clean up ltnews21 but getting there....

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Cool. I'm aiming to do some L3 checkins later today or tomorrow

David Carlisle

17:14

@JosephWright don't disturb me I'm in 2e mode:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle OK

@DavidCarlisle Who does 2e uploads: Frank?

David Carlisle

$ ls -l doc/cyrguide.pdf
-rw-r----- 1 ???????? ???????? 221192 Apr 26 16:45 doc/cyrguide.pdf

davidc@malta /home/l3svn/latex2e-public
$ rm -f doc/cyrguide.pdf

davidc@malta /home/l3svn/latex2e-public
$ ls -l doc/cyrguide.pdf
-rw-r----- 1 ???????? ???????? 221192 Apr 26 16:45 doc/cyrguide.pdf

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Can't you force the issue from the Windows end?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright this time, I think it was Will last time

@JosephWright nah even if I "run as administrator" in a dos box. I think it's some junk file node, I may try rebooting

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Only asking as I seem to have aquired the job of 'LaTeX3 release manager' more-or-less by accident :-)

David Carlisle

17:21

@JosephWright well it helped to have a machine that could run the build script:-)

rebooting: back in a bit:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Cool

0

Q: White space in tex file vs. white space in output

Googling around has not produced an answer to this, possibly because of the complexity of the question doesn't lend itself to easy googling. What I want to be able to do is control how white space appears in the output document. In the tex document, I might have two paragraphs as Text in paragra...

spacing

We've had this (more or less) before

David Carlisle

@JosephWright reboot and the file is gone, I don't even need to delete it. Windows is such a good operating system, it takes care of you like that.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@DavidCarlisle About 50 mins until I have TL2014 on Windows

s__C

17:42

Here also in CH it's no @JosephWright. Result is: most of the people are still producing awful Word and so on documents...

Joseph Wright

18:26

@DavidCarlisle Running LaTeX2e test suite with TL2014 now ...

Hello @FrankMittelbach

Frank Mittelbach

@egreg before we upload to ctan I would like to have a round of independent testing happening (as we did in the past) --- guess we are more or less ready for that

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle All tests pass

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright all?

Joseph Wright

@FrankMittelbach Well I've not done anything in terms of the code

@FrankMittelbach Looks like it: no .fc files inside test after running make check

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright typically people like Heiko would take a look to see if it works with their stuff

@JosephWright don't forget that the tests are not just in the main test dir

best is to run make test or make ctan on toplevel as that will tell you if anything fails

Joseph Wright

18:35

@FrankMittelbach Where else needs checking?

David Carlisle

@FrankMittelbach make check at the top does them all though doesn't it?

Joseph Wright

@FrankMittelbach That's what I did

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright then all should be fine

so the \csname\endcsname change make no difference?

David Carlisle

@FrankMittelbach make ctan now works here (but I had to change the bat files basically replacing etex pdflatex etc by pdftex -progname=pdflatex or whatever, and making the bat files executable with dos line endings

Joseph Wright

@FrankMittelbach Doesn't seem to here

Frank Mittelbach

18:37

@JosephWright so that was only in expl3 part?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Line endings was the issue I had before :-) (I normally check out 'natively' on my Mac)

@FrankMittelbach Yes

@FrankMittelbach Just one test in l3regex

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle you think your updates would work in the windows setup too?

in that case why not put them in

David Carlisle

@FrankMittelbach should do but I was going to check them in after the release rather than risk breaking it now:-)

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle ok we can do that (or we back them out if there is an issue. don#t mind either way

David Carlisle

@FrankMittelbach I started to clean up ltnews21 a bit should I carry on with that or do you have edits in hand there?

Joseph Wright

18:40

@DavidCarlisle Why do you need to fiddle with the scripts? You're using TL not MiKTeX, aren't you?

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle no that's fine .. please do so

David Carlisle

@JosephWright cygwin

Frank Mittelbach

I think we have a few more changes for fixltx2e that we may want to make ... and I'm currently to to hunt those down

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yes, but that has the same options for Win/*nix/Cygwin: MiKTeX doesn't know the same options

David Carlisle

@JosephWright pdflatex is a cygwin symbolic link to pdftex so the windows shell just doesn't see it

Joseph Wright

18:42

@DavidCarlisle Ah, right

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle good point

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I assume for the L3 stuff you can use the Unix Makefiles, then?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes (although must admit haven't tried recently) I never got cons to work under cygwin so I couldn't run the old make based 2e build scripts

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle OK

Frank Mittelbach

@David what about grfguide and a.ps?

Joseph Wright

18:55

@FrankMittelbach Running make doc now

David Carlisle

@JosephWright If you update doc quick it will pick up a new ltnews21

@FrankMittelbach ah, hang on will check..

Frank Mittelbach

... dinner time

David Carlisle

@FrankMittelbach same here..

Joseph Wright

19:27

@FrankMittelbach Doc builds but a.ps is not right

Joseph Wright

19:42

Hello @A.Ellett

A.Ellett

@JosephWright I think I might be confused about how tl_replace_all is working

Joseph Wright

@A.Ellett OK

A.Ellett

I was thinking it's replacing @ with #1, but is it the other way? #1 with @?

Joseph Wright

@A.Ellett First way around

A.Ellett

@JosephWright Then I'm still confused because there isn't a @ in the string to be replaced but rather an active .

Joseph Wright

19:44

\tl_replace_all:Nnn <token-list> <find> <replace>

@A.Ellett No, that's the lowercase trick!

@A.Ellett @ is being used purely as a place holder

@A.Ellett When TeX sees the \lowercase primitive, it replaces characters but does not change catcodes

A.Ellett

Oh. So @ has been lower cased into an inactive . which gets replaced by the currently active .?

Joseph Wright

@A.Ellett No

A.Ellett

Argh

Joseph Wright

@A.Ellett Active @ is lower cased into active . in the lowercase step, then we do a replacement of 'active' . by 'normal' .

A.Ellett

Then in \tl_replace_al:Nn .... { @ } { #1 } we have @ lower cased into active ..

But why isn't the #1 in the replacement text still the active version?

Joseph Wright

19:48

@A.Ellett Yes: at the point \tl_replace_all:Nnn is used here, both the second and third arguments have a . in them: it's just the catcode that varies

@A.Ellett #1 was grabbed when we did \DeclareDocumentCommand, so it's tokenized before the catcode change. It's the grabbed argument to \foo that's potentially got active versions of #1 in it.

A.Ellett

@JosephWright Now I see. It all falls into place now. Thanks for taking the time to chat this out with me.

Joseph Wright

@A.Ellett Remember that TeX assigns catcode when it first reads a token: TeX never changes catcodes for tokens after that (OK, there is \scantokens but Hic sunt leones)

@A.Ellett No problem

A.Ellett

@JosephWright one of these days I'll be brave an possible disturb sleeping dogs like \scantokens. But not today.

Joseph Wright

@A.Ellett I'd leave \scantokens alone

@A.Ellett While it does have some uses, probably it's better to rethink interfaces or behaviour so as not to use it!

egreg

@A.Ellett \scantokens bites, beware!

A.Ellett

19:56

@egreg I'll leave that dog to sleep ....

egreg

Joseph Wright

@egreg See my comment

egreg

Joseph Wright

2

Q: Need Reps..? Follow the steps. A hack available.

Steps to follow: A. Just open a question which has some answers in it. B. Target anyone random answer from it. C. Now inspect its downvote button. it should have a class named vote-down-off D. Now remove that class from it and add some other id/class of your own wish. E. Now open the...

bug

Don't worry: doesn't appear to actually work :-)

Frank Mittelbach

20:18

@JosephWright that's what I thought :-) @DavidCarlisle ?

Joseph Wright

@FrankMittelbach I guess you need an EPS for the 'auto-convert' magic to work

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright no @DavidCarlisle does

Joseph Wright

@FrankMittelbach :-)

David Carlisle

20:31

@FrankMittelbach @JosephWright if you (I:-) add a %!EPS comment it is eps and I could just make a .pdf separately rather than relying on on the fly conversion, but the bb examples don't really work as conversion to pd translates by the lower left corner already. I could change to use viewport (was just looking at a that) or I could just change the make fileto use latex/dvips/ps2pdf for grfguide (which is tempting)

Frank Mittelbach

20:49

call it a day ... I#ll go away and play a little "mad world"

Johannes_B

21:12

Anybody up for getting a »Feierabendbier«?

Henri Menke

21:58

Hello everyone. Could it be, that there is a bug in point meta of pgfplots? If I do point meta={x} everything is fine, but as soon as it do point meta={x*(-1)} the nodes get displaced although the number is computed correctly. See my answer here for an example.

David Carlisle

@egreg your edit translates as "oops Heiko's more right than me this time?"

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Link?

egreg

@DavidCarlisle It's Heiko, not Herbert. ;-) His explanation is what the TeXbook says, I like more the rule I stated.

Joseph Wright

@egreg Well Knuth does say up-front it's not all necessary true

David Carlisle

@egreg so that's a yes then:-)

Joseph Wright

22:00

The real question is what does the source code say :-)

egreg

@JosephWright I'm trying to look for it.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I'm in 2e mode, you can read the source:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I think I'll pass

David Carlisle

@JosephWright @egreg will feel more motivated to look it up, he has honour at stake

ooh I've been here another year apparently

egreg

@JosephWright Module 354: if the control symbol is a spacer, the state is set to skip_blanks.

Joseph Wright

22:05

@egreg So TbT is right?

David Carlisle

oh no not here on SO:-)

egreg

@JosephWright Yes.

Joseph Wright

@egreg Cool

egreg

@JosephWright However, the description is easier by saying that spaces in input are reduced to one altogether. Maybe TeXnically untrue, but handier: no exception.

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