TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2014-04-26

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2:51 AM

Hi

When I use \usepackage[osf]{mathpazo}

not all the numerals in the document are not modified

only few

the code is available here : tex.stackexchange.com/questions/173499/…

user image

what to do???

4 hours later…

6:35 AM

@egreg I was using gmdoc for a while because I started getting tired of the DTX syntax. At some point, gmdoc kinda broke and I switched to a very quickly slapped together replacement that doesn't do anything near as clever but still allows decent typesetting of .sty code. (See the pstool package.)

Were some of you lot writing a unit testing framework for LaTeX code in the last couple of years? (I'd like to revive my fontspec test suite, which up until now using a pixel-by-pixel comparison to check for regressions. Too many false negatives.) I scoured my email but couldn't come up with just the right keywords to search for.

6:48 AM

@WillRobertson :-)

2 hours later…

8:50 AM

@DavidCarlisle Fixing those LaTeX2e bugs? :-)

Hopefully @WillRobertson will get on with the LaTeX3 ones :-)

We just need Frank to turn up now!

1

Q: Are questions for best practices on-topic?

The title says it all: Are questions about best practices on-topic? To give some context, I think that it is fair to ask the question in tex.stackexchange.com why the commonly cited best practice in TeX editing to split your document into sub-files for the chapters/sections is actually a best pr...

discussion best-practice

I'm thinking 'yes': others?

9:26 AM

@JosephWright I too, so I answered

1 hour later…

10:52 AM

@WillRobertson I'm working on it. :) Kind of. :)

@JosephWright Definitely

11:04 AM

@JosephWright Are questions on best practices for best practices on topic? :)

11:18 AM

Was there any cake yesterday? :)

1 hour later…

12:30 PM

@PauloCereda Budino di cioccolata, for me.

@egreg Having chocolate, count me in. :)

2 hours later…

2:04 PM

@JosephWright just about done for this time, I think

@PauloCereda @Johannes_B Thanks very much! :) How did you know?

2:21 PM

@cgnieder A duck told me. :)

@PauloCereda I guess you have your ducks everywhere (collecting information and eating breadcrumbs) ;)

@cgnieder Oh no, my master plan was spotted!

3:06 PM

@DavidCarlisle When will the next batch happen? :)

@PauloCereda 2026, naturally.

@StephanLehmke probably

3:23 PM

@StephanLehmke Seems legit. :)

@David: make sure @Joseph gets a gnats ID until that date, so you can blame him. :)

@PauloCereda Down to Rainer (Schoepf), not David, I think :-)

@egreg I see you've got TL2014 working too (from the LuaTeX question)

@JosephWright Yes. I installed it last week.

@JosephWright When will the update to LaTeX2e be uploaded?

@egreg We've been told 1st May is the deadline to ensure testing can be done before final TL2014 DVD freeze date

@egreg Tests all seem to pass for the checkins to date: @DavidCarlisle (or @frankmittelbach) will know more

@egreg I also want to get some stuff checked in to expl3 and update CTAN for the same deadline: will do my best

0

Q: TeX Live 2013 tlmgr fails when trying to update -- TeX Live 2013 frozen

When running tlmgr updateerror all (with TeX Live 2013 distribution) in Windows OS, I get the following message: TeX Live 2013 is frozen forever and will no longer be updated. This happens in preparation for a new release. If you're interested in helping to pretest the new release (when pretes...

Do we need to generalise one or other of the questions on this, as it comes up every year?

@JosephWright I marked it as duplicate of the 2011 one.

@JosephWright Maybe changing the title of that one?

@egreg That's what I was wondering about, more or less

3:32 PM

@JosephWright Removing 2011 from the title?

@egreg Yes, something like that. Perhaps needs some meta-discussion first?

With a search based on "frozen forever" one should be able to find it.

@egreg Yes: TeX Live + frozen + tlmgr

@JosephWright tex.stackexchange.com/search?q=frozen+forever

3:46 PM

2cents question : which one between plain TeX and ConteXt would be the most worth learning? It has already been told that ConteXt is still in active development. On the other side no risk with plain TeX development. Or should I just stick to LaTeX? (maybe I'll have to learn it all again once LaTeX 3 is released)

@s__C Depends what you want to do

Avoid becoming an hipster @JosephWright?

@s__C I mean what is it you are interested in: for 'basics' perhaps learn plain, if you want a more consistent system but with more typographic control than is easy in LaTeX, learn ConTeXt, ...

the thing with ConTeXt (I've done some experiments with it) is the lack of documentation, except the reference manual basically

so maybe ConTeXt is the way to go

4:02 PM

@s__C They do lack the 'solid books' that both plain and LaTeX have, but on the other hand they have a very helpful user community on their mailing lsit

IMO mailing list is like spamming as you can't follow all what's going

@s__C I've never had a problem with lists: which reader do you use?

@JosephWright: this semester I'm heavily studying compilers. It's so awesome to check the TeX way of providing expansions. :)

normal web page @JosephWright

@s__C Ah: you do need a proper mail client for these things

@PauloCereda Indeed?

4:04 PM

nah but when I was enroled it was gmail @JosephWright

@JosephWright ye. :)

@s__C Still not a proper client

@Joseph: will David be my potential postdoc supervisor (if I ever survive PhD)? :)

what do you mean @JosephWright? what could I use?

@s__C Thunderbird is my choice: there are others :-)

4:05 PM

thunderbird is nothing else than a mail client a la outlook

@s__C So you have a mail client. :)

@s__C Well, better than Outlook but yes, it's a proper mail client

You can almost certainly use Emacs :-)

I just wanted to check if I was speaking with mutt users...

@s__C Mutt is another one

(Never used it myself)

Of course, king of the mail clients is Pine

But for that you need to be able to log in to the server

well well

4:13 PM

@PauloCereda Did you see the book by Victor Eijkhout?

tacc-web.austin.utexas.edu/veijkhout/public_html/Articles/…

3

@egreg Cool! Let me check it. :)

is it quite common to have LaTeX lectures in the US?

@egreg: very nice!

@PauloCereda Yup

@egreg When did you find this?

@JosephWright Some years ago. There was a “reprint” with a notice on comp.text.tex some months ago, IIRC.

4:16 PM

@egreg Ah, right

4:29 PM

Installed TL2014 on my Windows (Parallels) rig, to be sure I'm testing correctly for the LaTeX2e release

@s__C I'm also interested by that: I suspect here in the UK it's a definite 'no'

4:43 PM

@egreg Frank and I need to find all the bugs Joseph's added first (or something)

@DavidCarlisle Tar

@JosephWright you seem safe so far:-)

4:59 PM

@DavidCarlisle Cool

@DavidCarlisle I like your solution to the failing test file :-)

@JosephWright there is an identical one with same name in tools/testfiles:-)

@JosephWright do they all pass for you apart from the csname endcsname in tl2014? I think I've got all the bat files working now in cygwin but have a cyrguide.pdf I can't delete (weird permissions unwritable by anyone) (I'd forgotten we have required/cyrillic :-)

@DavidCarlisle Installing TL2014 for Windows: give me around 1 hour!

@DavidCarlisle They all pass with TL2013, I think

@DavidCarlisle The failing file for TL2014 is an L3 one (tests run there both on Windows and *nix)

@JosephWright sounds good, we still need to clean up ltnews21 but getting there....

@DavidCarlisle Cool. I'm aiming to do some L3 checkins later today or tomorrow

5:14 PM

@JosephWright don't disturb me I'm in 2e mode:-)

@DavidCarlisle OK

@DavidCarlisle Who does 2e uploads: Frank?

$ ls -l doc/cyrguide.pdf
-rw-r----- 1 ???????? ???????? 221192 Apr 26 16:45 doc/cyrguide.pdf

davidc@malta /home/l3svn/latex2e-public
$ rm -f doc/cyrguide.pdf

davidc@malta /home/l3svn/latex2e-public
$ ls -l doc/cyrguide.pdf
-rw-r----- 1 ???????? ???????? 221192 Apr 26 16:45 doc/cyrguide.pdf

@DavidCarlisle Can't you force the issue from the Windows end?

@JosephWright this time, I think it was Will last time

@JosephWright nah even if I "run as administrator" in a dos box. I think it's some junk file node, I may try rebooting

@DavidCarlisle Only asking as I seem to have aquired the job of 'LaTeX3 release manager' more-or-less by accident :-)

5:21 PM

@JosephWright well it helped to have a machine that could run the build script:-)

rebooting: back in a bit:-)

@DavidCarlisle Cool

0

Q: White space in tex file vs. white space in output

Googling around has not produced an answer to this, possibly because of the complexity of the question doesn't lend itself to easy googling. What I want to be able to do is control how white space appears in the output document. In the tex document, I might have two paragraphs as Text in paragra...

We've had this (more or less) before

@JosephWright reboot and the file is gone, I don't even need to delete it. Windows is such a good operating system, it takes care of you like that.

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@DavidCarlisle About 50 mins until I have TL2014 on Windows

5:42 PM

Here also in CH it's no @JosephWright. Result is: most of the people are still producing awful Word and so on documents...

6:26 PM

@DavidCarlisle Running LaTeX2e test suite with TL2014 now ...

Hello @FrankMittelbach

Frank Mittelbach

@egreg before we upload to ctan I would like to have a round of independent testing happening (as we did in the past) --- guess we are more or less ready for that

@DavidCarlisle All tests pass

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright all?

@FrankMittelbach Well I've not done anything in terms of the code

@FrankMittelbach Looks like it: no .fc files inside test after running make check

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright typically people like Heiko would take a look to see if it works with their stuff

@JosephWright don't forget that the tests are not just in the main test dir

best is to run make test or make ctan on toplevel as that will tell you if anything fails

6:35 PM

@FrankMittelbach Where else needs checking?

@FrankMittelbach make check at the top does them all though doesn't it?

@FrankMittelbach That's what I did

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright then all should be fine

so the \csname\endcsname change make no difference?

@FrankMittelbach make ctan now works here (but I had to change the bat files basically replacing etex pdflatex etc by pdftex -progname=pdflatex or whatever, and making the bat files executable with dos line endings

@FrankMittelbach Doesn't seem to here

Frank Mittelbach

6:37 PM

@JosephWright so that was only in expl3 part?

@DavidCarlisle Line endings was the issue I had before :-) (I normally check out 'natively' on my Mac)

@FrankMittelbach Yes

@FrankMittelbach Just one test in l3regex

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle you think your updates would work in the windows setup too?

in that case why not put them in

@FrankMittelbach should do but I was going to check them in after the release rather than risk breaking it now:-)

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle ok we can do that (or we back them out if there is an issue. don#t mind either way

@FrankMittelbach I started to clean up ltnews21 a bit should I carry on with that or do you have edits in hand there?

6:40 PM

@DavidCarlisle Why do you need to fiddle with the scripts? You're using TL not MiKTeX, aren't you?

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle no that's fine .. please do so

@JosephWright cygwin

Frank Mittelbach

I think we have a few more changes for fixltx2e that we may want to make ... and I'm currently to to hunt those down

@DavidCarlisle Yes, but that has the same options for Win/*nix/Cygwin: MiKTeX doesn't know the same options

@JosephWright pdflatex is a cygwin symbolic link to pdftex so the windows shell just doesn't see it

6:42 PM

@DavidCarlisle Ah, right

Frank Mittelbach

@DavidCarlisle good point

@DavidCarlisle I assume for the L3 stuff you can use the Unix Makefiles, then?

@JosephWright yes (although must admit haven't tried recently) I never got cons to work under cygwin so I couldn't run the old make based 2e build scripts

@DavidCarlisle OK

Frank Mittelbach

@David what about grfguide and a.ps?

6:55 PM

@FrankMittelbach Running make doc now

@JosephWright If you update doc quick it will pick up a new ltnews21

@FrankMittelbach ah, hang on will check..

Frank Mittelbach

... dinner time

@FrankMittelbach same here..

7:27 PM

@FrankMittelbach Doc builds but a.ps is not right

7:42 PM

Hello @A.Ellett

@JosephWright I think I might be confused about how tl_replace_all is working

@A.Ellett OK

I was thinking it's replacing @ with #1, but is it the other way? #1 with @?

@A.Ellett First way around

@JosephWright Then I'm still confused because there isn't a @ in the string to be replaced but rather an active .

7:44 PM

\tl_replace_all:Nnn <token-list> <find> <replace>

@A.Ellett No, that's the lowercase trick!

@A.Ellett @ is being used purely as a place holder

@A.Ellett When TeX sees the \lowercase primitive, it replaces characters but does not change catcodes

Oh. So @ has been lower cased into an inactive . which gets replaced by the currently active .?

@A.Ellett No

Argh

@A.Ellett Active @ is lower cased into active . in the lowercase step, then we do a replacement of 'active' . by 'normal' .

Then in \tl_replace_al:Nn .... { @ } { #1 } we have @ lower cased into active ..

But why isn't the #1 in the replacement text still the active version?

7:48 PM

@A.Ellett Yes: at the point \tl_replace_all:Nnn is used here, both the second and third arguments have a . in them: it's just the catcode that varies

@A.Ellett #1 was grabbed when we did \DeclareDocumentCommand, so it's tokenized before the catcode change. It's the grabbed argument to \foo that's potentially got active versions of #1 in it.

@JosephWright Now I see. It all falls into place now. Thanks for taking the time to chat this out with me.

@A.Ellett Remember that TeX assigns catcode when it first reads a token: TeX never changes catcodes for tokens after that (OK, there is \scantokens but Hic sunt leones)

@A.Ellett No problem

@JosephWright one of these days I'll be brave an possible disturb sleeping dogs like \scantokens. But not today.

@A.Ellett I'd leave \scantokens alone

@A.Ellett While it does have some uses, probably it's better to rethink interfaces or behaviour so as not to use it!

@A.Ellett \scantokens bites, beware!

7:56 PM

@egreg I'll leave that dog to sleep ....

user image

@egreg See my comment

user image

2

Q: Need Reps..? Follow the steps. A hack available.

Steps to follow: A. Just open a question which has some answers in it. B. Target anyone random answer from it. C. Now inspect its downvote button. it should have a class named vote-down-off D. Now remove that class from it and add some other id/class of your own wish. E. Now open the...

Don't worry: doesn't appear to actually work :-)

Frank Mittelbach

8:18 PM

@JosephWright that's what I thought :-) @DavidCarlisle ?

@FrankMittelbach I guess you need an EPS for the 'auto-convert' magic to work

Frank Mittelbach

@JosephWright no @DavidCarlisle does

@FrankMittelbach :-)

8:31 PM

@FrankMittelbach @JosephWright if you (I:-) add a %!EPS comment it is eps and I could just make a .pdf separately rather than relying on on the fly conversion, but the bb examples don't really work as conversion to pd translates by the lower left corner already. I could change to use viewport (was just looking at a that) or I could just change the make fileto use latex/dvips/ps2pdf for grfguide (which is tempting)

Frank Mittelbach

8:49 PM

call it a day ... I#ll go away and play a little "mad world"

9:12 PM

Anybody up for getting a »Feierabendbier«?

9:58 PM

Hello everyone. Could it be, that there is a bug in point meta of pgfplots? If I do point meta={x} everything is fine, but as soon as it do point meta={x*(-1)} the nodes get displaced although the number is computed correctly. See my answer here for an example.

@egreg your edit translates as "oops Heiko's more right than me this time?"

@DavidCarlisle Link?

@DavidCarlisle It's Heiko, not Herbert. ;-) His explanation is what the TeXbook says, I like more the rule I stated.

@egreg Well Knuth does say up-front it's not all necessary true

@egreg so that's a yes then:-)

10:00 PM

The real question is what does the source code say :-)

@JosephWright I'm trying to look for it.

@JosephWright I'm in 2e mode, you can read the source:-)

@DavidCarlisle I think I'll pass

@JosephWright @egreg will feel more motivated to look it up, he has honour at stake

ooh I've been here another year apparently

@JosephWright Module 354: if the control symbol is a spacer, the state is set to skip_blanks.

10:05 PM

@egreg So TbT is right?

oh no not here on SO:-)

@JosephWright Yes.

@egreg Cool

@JosephWright However, the description is easier by saying that spaces in input are reduced to one altogether. Maybe TeXnically untrue, but handier: no exception.

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