01:00 - 18:0018:00 - 22:00

1:36 AM
@JairoA.delRio -- Near Newport, there's a "heritage breeds" farm. For protection in the pastures, they ave "watch" llamas. No coyote is going to tackle one of those guys!

1:47 AM
@JosephWright -- Looking good. Congrats!

2:04 AM
@barbarabeeton I'm more surprised of the fact there are llama farms outside Andean countries. Llamas protecting against coyotes sounds surreal, but credible to me. Pumas, however, make a good meal from them

@JairoA.delRio -- It's not a llama farm. The animals in the pastures are more likely to be sheep or small cattle. The llamas are there to protect the other animals. Here's a link to the web page: onlyinyourstate.com/rhode-island/svf-foundation-ri There are some nice pictures, including one showing a "watch llama" and its flock of sheep. @Plergux -- you might also enjoy this It's really interesting to go there on their visiting day in June.

2:32 AM
@barbarabeeton Oh, I've just seen it. Nice and weird at the same time. I didn't know "guard llamas" were a thing until I googled it
I wonder why don't we have llamas in TeX as it happens with ducks and some other mammals

2:44 AM
@JairoA.delRio -- Not the same, but I have a little stuffed llama among my stuffed critter menagerie. He's not big enough to guard anything, but he has a nice smile and a colorful blanket across his back. TeX's first animal is a lion. If you want to know why, the answer is at the end of Don Knuth's remarks on the first publication of Computers & Typesetting: tug.org/TUGboat/tb07-2/tb15knut.pdf

6 hours later…
8:31 AM
@barbarabeeton Ooooh! All the pretty sheep! :D As well as being cute the guard llama is at least more ethical than using fainting goats as bait while the others escape! :|

/Las llamas son más grandes que las ranas

@PauloCereda XD

@JosephWright you broke my code ;-( The backend files shouldn't use \pdfmanagement_add:nnn so early. My backend isn't there yet, as I load after your backend.

@UlrikeFischer he is mean

9:08 AM
Hi @JosephWright I'd like to RT the learnlatex tweet with Overleaf to give this the desired attention. However, our users don't have much idea what it is. If you had an idea for quote retweet text, I'm sure we can work it out!
And congrats to all the work, well done! It looks awesome!

@samcarter_says_quack don't you love statically shipping an entire pack of libraries? :)

@JairoA.delRio ^^^^

@samcarter_says_quack ooh

@PauloCereda :) yes!
@PauloCereda ... a typical case of duck infection via libs :)
@PauloCereda ... and saves me from having to make a pull request with some hidden duck

9:16 AM
@UlrikeFischer I'll revert: as long as we remember to adjust this when we integrate your code (I assume that's still the plan)
@yo' OK, I'll write a slightly longer tweet
> Want to learn LaTeX interactively online? learnlatex.org is now live in five languages #TeXLaTeX
@DavidCarlisle We likely should prune the 'just for testing' languages on learnlatex
@PauloCereda Remind me what sort order you think we should have for languages on learnlatex

@JosephWright Use the one Wikipedia has.

Duck language first, all other don't matter so much :)

@samcarter_says_quack Perhaps I'll do that for ... one day of the year ;)

@JosephWright why do you want to do this early? Imho it is a bit difficult if one part of the backend code depends on something in other parts in the backend. It makes rearranging hard. Wouldn't it be better if there where a dedicated "and now initialize" place? I could add a hook in my code and you could add to it?

@PauloCereda I'd like it in a jsortable table so I can order on first name, lastname or code repository, or an order than just puts me first anyway. — David Carlisle Oct 4 '13 at 8:30
@samcarter_says_quack ^^

9:23 AM
@PauloCereda Hmm, they are in a circle ... not sure what the order is!

@JosephWright No, I meant from an article. There's a list of languages there.

@JosephWright :) May I suggest Jun 9th? daysoftheyear.com/days/donald-duck-day

@samcarter_says_quack Well first @PauloCereda and I need to translate into Duck

@JosephWright I'm sure David can help, he speaks all languages

@JosephWright we did that once, I think they just came back:-)

9:28 AM
@DavidCarlisle Ah, right
@DavidCarlisle I'm going to hide them now: important as we get 'launched'

@JosephWright yes, and need to check that all the extra navigation texts that Jonas added get translated in the remaining ones (I haven't checked where we are there)

@DavidCarlisle Certainly: I'll just trying to remove the worse of the rough edges

9:43 AM
@PauloCereda Order comes from github.com/learnlatex/learnlatex.github.io/blob/master/_data/…: I think they are sorted
@DavidCarlisle I've trimmed the visible langauges

@JosephWright yes, that's a YAML list and they are sorted by default. Unless Ruby does anything different... thanks.

@PauloCereda Reading the setup, it simply maps over that list
@PauloCereda I didn't do anything ;)
@PauloCereda All I've done is delete the languages that are 'partly done' (e.g. where we have headings but no text)
@PauloCereda I'm not 100% sure abotu how to handle pt-BR: could you log an issue?
@PauloCereda Ideally, I'd like to have German sorted - Doris did say she'd have a go (@UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle)
@DavidCarlisle If @yo' does his Overleaf retweet, we might see a bit of load on the backend!

@JosephWright Well, Ruby is interesting, to say the least...

@JosephWright @PauloCereda I'd hope that we could keep to a single pt otherwise we may end up with multiple variants of all languages. zh-hans/zh-hant is different as it's a different script rather than regional language difference.

@PauloCereda :)

9:49 AM
@JosephWright I feel conflicted. I personally don't want to get lectured again.

@PauloCereda OK, I'll log an issue then: perhaps best

@JosephWright you are the boss

@PauloCereda I'll simply log that it would be best if we can pick idiom that works well enough for all Portuguse speakers, assuming that's realistic (I don't know how different pt-PT and pt-BR are)
@PauloCereda Oh, not really: I still have to get money from Funders

@JosephWright can we have an en-gb that spells colour correctly?
6

@DavidCarlisle :)
@DavidCarlisle Also centre, itemise, ...

9:51 AM
@DavidCarlisle I just pointed out because there are significant differences and region codes exist for a reason. For TL, I asked Norbert because I felt my translation was too region-specific, and sadly I do not believe I could write something that would be "region-agnostic", if that's possible.
@JosephWright You probably should ask a Portuguese for their feedbacks.

@PauloCereda yes but practically speaking we are struggling to get one translation per European language completed. If we allow multiple it's extra work that isn't clear we can maintain. Every edit needs to propagate through all translations, so extra translations is more work

@DavidCarlisle Indeed: I just looked as Wikipedia and they explicitly say how many pages are available for a reange of languages: more pages = fewer languages

@DavidCarlisle I am not suggesting any additional translations, I am simply pointing out that this particular Portuguese translation might offer barriers to an European reader.

@PauloCereda but if we called it pt-br it would be implicitly inviting a pt-pt we couldn't really refuse if one were offered.

@DavidCarlisle so bite the bullet and leave things as they are and wait for someone to complain.

9:57 AM
@PauloCereda you are complaining now:-)

@DavidCarlisle So this is Cygwin all over again, so now roles are reversed. :)

@PauloCereda how about if I take the existing text google translate it to english and back to pt-google then assert that it is universally correct by assertion.

@DavidCarlisle :)

@PauloCereda seems fine to me

10:00 AM
@PauloCereda Like you say, we likely need some native Portuguese speakers from Portugal to comment - a preemtive issue sounds good to me

@PauloCereda Are there parts that are so different that a european reader would have real difficulties?

@UlrikeFischer there might be, or at least make people frustrated
For instance, ficheiro and arquivo.
They both mean file.

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright add a notice saying that LL does not take responsibility on translations done by voluntaries?

@PauloCereda Sure: it's hard to know the level of difference unless one speaks the language. For example, en-GB and en-US are mainly mutually intelligible, but there are a few tricky issues (chips/crisps being an obvious one)

10:04 AM
@JosephWright I think it does, now you probably need to hear feedback. I am definitely biased.

@PauloCereda I wouldn't worry too much about it. Imho people wandering through the internet get this type of differences all the time, and they learn to handle this.

@JosephWright the other thing to be mindful: A Portuguese would certainly understand English, whereas a Brazilian would not.

@UlrikeFischer My thinking was that really I shouldn't need \AtBeginDvi around a public interface for another module, as the latter should 'know' if it needs to delay stuff to the start-of-DVI. Of course, it's tricky when doing bootstrapping of the backend, and as we don't have everything in one file (which I'm still aiming for)

@UlrikeFischer agreed. I am not complaining, I was just pointing the differences.

@PauloCereda Fair enough
@PauloCereda Sure

10:07 AM
@JosephWright If you had to attach a flag to the language text selection, which flag would you choose for "English"?

@PauloCereda Don't worry, I don't see it as a complaint; it's a tricky area and we are working out what to do as best we can. My original plan didn't even have multiple languages, so ...
@PauloCereda I'd have the Union Jack and Stars and Strips next to one another: that's pretty common

@PauloCereda I know :-)

\usepackage{fontspec}
\newfontfamily\boxedsymbols{DejaVu Sans}
\renewcommand\checkmark{{\boxedsymbols ✔}}
\newcommand\crossmark{{\boxedsymbols ❌}}

@JosephWright why not 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿? :)

Is there a reason why \checkmark would just print nothing?

In one Beamer document, it prints nothing, in a MWE it prints exactly the checkmark symbol.
I am using XeLaTeX for both documents.

10:12 AM
@UlrikeFischer I'm going to do more work on opacity so I'll adjust
@UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle I think opacity needs it's own module, but probably within l3color or l3draw - preferences?

@JosephWright hm, you have a point here. I should perhaps delay the execution of the command.

10:31 AM
@JosephWright You were right, I changed the command so that it execute later, so you can leave it I think.

@UlrikeFischer Cool
@yo' I've posted that Tweet

@JosephWright but I think all my tests I remade yesterday will fail again as you changed color.opa into opacity ;-)
@JosephWright a typical stream now start always with three gs operators:
>>
stream
/opacity1 gs
/opacity1 gs
/opacity1 gs
0 g 0 G
0 g 0 G
0 g 0 G

@UlrikeFischer Oh drat
@UlrikeFischer That's one the things I want to address: I'd like to only activate that if required
@UlrikeFischer Not sure why there are three!

@JosephWright I will survive (I'm getting quite good in writing batch file to do this)

@UlrikeFischer Hopefully I'll get this done today or tomorrow

10:45 AM
@JosephWright well I think one from the init code, the other seems to be from a selection command.

@JosephWright vvv
2

11:04 AM
@JosephWright look great! Will do that as soon as I'm at work!

@ComFreek try to make a test document that reproduces the problem. There are many possible causes.

That is hopeless given the document's size

@ComFreek symbols are normally related only to fonts. You should be able to reproduce this only with the preamble and a short textbody.

@ComFreek search for missing in the log file

2 hours later…
12:46 PM
@samcarter_says_quack That llama looks suspicious.

1:10 PM
@JosephWright oh I missed this one. I hope I didn't cause any interruptions :D

1 hour later…
2:18 PM
Does anybody know how is this called?
We call it "chullo" in Spanish.

@JairoA.delRio ooh

I've read "winter hat" or similar things, but I want to be sure.

@JairoA.delRio Chavo del ocho hat :)

@PauloCereda lmao no

@PauloCereda I was about to say that :)

2:20 PM
Wrong color choice :((((

@PhelypeOleinik Tinha que ser o Phelype Chaves de novo

How is that called in Portuguese btw?

@PauloCereda Pipipipipipipipipipi

@PhelypeOleinik ooh
May 19 '20 at 10:01, by Paulo Cereda
These millenials and their Avengers. We had the best hero back then. :)

@JairoA.delRio No idea. "Gorro", maybe, but that's generic for any wool hat

2:23 PM
@PauloCereda Speechless

@PauloCereda YES! :D

@JairoA.delRio I think I heard chapéu andino
Or gorro as @PhelypeOleinik said
Gorro andino

@PauloCereda Oh, it sounds like French

@JairoA.delRio oh no

@PauloCereda Ah, makes sense
yesterday, by Phelype Oleinik
@DavidCarlisle Me speak English no good
Also applies to Portuguese :) ^^^

2:26 PM
@JairoA.delRio dinner

@PauloCereda Oh, gorro is also a generic name in Spanish. Whatever... I guess I'll use the Spanish (actually borrowed from Quechua/Aymara) name in the module...
@DavidCarlisle Oh no

@DavidCarlisle oh no
@JairoA.delRio I know the chullo word. :) A lab colleague was from Peru. :)

@JairoA.delRio @PauloCereda You'd need that here, knowing you :) we're around the freezing point and still have snow even downtown.

@yo' oh no

@PauloCereda oh yes!

2:29 PM
@JairoA.delRio (and @JosephWright) Speaking of Spanish: how different are different versions of (written) Spanish across South America, and how that differs from European Spanish? (assuming you are familiar with different variations). I ask for the translations on learnlatex. I made the pt(-br) translation, and I think that it should be easy to understand to European readers (although they would find my word choices weird, as I find theirs).
I think that differences are mostly like in English: word choices and minor spelling differences, but nothing that stops someone from understanding

@PhelypeOleinik Mmm... I don't care, as many others in Latin America. However, some Argentinian tend to get easily angry with those issues. I'd suggest a neuter register...

@JairoA.delRio I was going to mention los hermanos. :)
@JairoA.delRio I would vote for a Colombian translation. :)

@PhelypeOleinik The "vosotros/ustedes" thing is remarkable. It's understandable, but very strange to us.

@JairoA.delRio “You Scots Argentinians sure are contentious people”
2

2:33 PM
@PauloCereda YOU'VE JUST MADE AN ENEMY FOR LIFE!!!
:)

@PhelypeOleinik <3

@PhelypeOleinik lmao. But I was serious. For some reason, they have an issue with their Spanish. They have pressured Academia de la Lengua Española so Argentinian Spanish was considered standard, from what I've heard

@JairoA.delRio Ah, so it's more or less the same situation. Perfectly understandable, but not as comfortable to read
@JairoA.delRio Oh O_O

@PhelypeOleinik Also, Spaniards tend to translate as many terms as possible to Spanish. Here we just use italics for foreign terms: arrays, strings...
@yo' Oh snow

@JairoA.delRio Ah, there's that too. I tend to prefer the English term for some things, because it's usually easier to understand than randomly translating "string" to "cadeia", which is not wrong, but is a bit awkward

2:40 PM
ooh Word for Windows: Palabras para Ventanas

@yo' How are things going in Europe? News usually inform about sad things only

@PhelypeOleinik don't read my thesis :)

@PauloCereda :)

@PauloCereda lmfao

I avoid anglicism like the plague. :)

2:42 PM
pilha de cores :)

@PhelypeOleinik o problema de performance é o seu throughput

@JairoA.delRio Well, Czechia (my country) is "best in Covid", as our PM says, unfortunately on the opposite end from Israel.

@PauloCereda I don't even know that last word
@PauloCereda But performance can be desempenho, no anglicism needed

@PhelypeOleinik The closest term vould be vazão.
@PhelypeOleinik for us sane people. :)

and if the EU didn't exist, we wouldn't have any vaccines. We have them only thanks to the EU organizing them and the distributing them according to the population of the countries.

2:46 PM
@yo' That's awful. Tbh I expected thing to be better there. Here people just don't care

@JairoA.delRio oh well, and thanks to our govt's chaotic comms, there's so many anti-vaxxers here! But that's better in the other EU countries I think. I just hope that once I'm eligible for the shot(s), they'll record them in my international vaccination passport.

@yo' God, are anti-vaxxers everywhere?

@JairoA.delRio oh definitely. But I believe there's a small core (mostly coming from desinfo Russia/China-orineted sources), and then there's a lot of "believers". However, in the end I think it's just a lot of noise, in the covid's case.
Funnily enough, kindergardens started denying admission to children without proper vaccination or confirmation they can't be vaccinated for medical reasons here.

@yo' Ah, interesing. Chinese media I'm aware of (those who share news in Spanish) are the opposite wrt vaccines. Concerning Russia, well... yes, they have desinformation media here too
@yo' Nice

@JairoA.delRio well, if you want, you'll always get a pediatrician say the child has a contra-indication. So it's double-edged. Also, it would make sense to say that you can only have (50/R)% of non-vaccinated children in the group, where R depends on the disease. That would make sense to me. But it gets complicated. The thing is, for measles, R is 18, so this gives only 3% non-vaccinated children allowed in the group. And that's technically zero already, so there's no difference.
(btw, have I told you I have a maths background? :D )

3:03 PM
@yo' I didn't even notice it :D
@yo' I didn't even know there was a formula for such a calculation. Where can I read more about that? Biology and friends are very alien to me, but I have also a maths background, so I'm comfortable with your explanation <3

@JosephWright Is there any update on this comment of yours? github.com/josephwright/beamer/issues/…

@yo' Another question, if possible. Is there a known value or approximation for R in the case of coronavirus? :)

@ComFreek @HenriMenke feels, reasonably, that changing color in pgf is a risk not worth taking

@JosephWright hm, but this bug has been known for 5 years: https://tex.stackexchange.com/q/232168/38074
As per the comments there, it's related to the bug report of yours.

@JairoA.delRio oh well, the basic idea is that if you know R (the reproduction number) and V (the vaccination fragment), the number of people a single person infects is R*(1-V). In theory, having R*(1-V)=1 means that the number of people infected at any given time is constant. However, given that the vaccination is not 100% and any society forms fragments, you wanna do better, like R*(1-V)<=0.5. This is equivalent to V >= 1-1/2R.
@JairoA.delRio for Covid it's approximated between 1.6 and 2.6 I think. But that depends on the strand. The recent ones discovered in the UK or SA are probably in the upper range. This means that 1-1/R is about 60% and 1-1/2R is about 80%.
I'm afraid I don't have a single good source, this is my mathematical untwisting on what the biologists say in complicated words!

3:19 PM
@yo' It makes sense. Something new learnt. Thanks. :)

@JosephWright I thought to take a quick look at it, but it errors for me with the current development code: ! Argument of \convert@@@color has an extra } Does it compile for you?

@UlrikeFischer What example? What did I mess up?

@JosephWright the one in the beamer bug about xetex and the notes. And it errors only with xelatex not pdflatex.
@JosephWright but it can also be something from me.

@JairoA.delRio no worries :)

@UlrikeFischer With the current dev release I'm fine for both

3:26 PM
@JosephWright yes, there is no problem, I have a problem with the local format I made with the new l3-master and the latex code.

@UlrikeFischer Phew
@UlrikeFischer On the \pdfmanagement_add:nnn/duplicate gs business: do I need to track what gets added so there are no duplicates? If so, is that global or per-page?

@JosephWright does that mean the bug will go away in the next release (of what?)?

@ComFreek No: I was checking with @UlrikeFischer that we've not changed something and given a hard error
@ComFreek Like I said, changing pgf is really extremely risky

Does that mean the bug will remain?

@JosephWright the \pdfmanagement_add:nnn fills a prop, you can issue them as often as you want. The /opacity1 gs in the stream are not a problem either, there are often such repetitions with colors, but it is perhaps an indication that there is unneeded code somewhere.

3:31 PM
as an end user, I will use LuaLaTeX instead of XeLaTeX for slides from now on
But other users might depend on XeLaTeX

@UlrikeFischer I think I want to use Heiko's approach for transparency: only set the gs at all if it's used. I need to read his code
@ComFreek At present: dvipdfmx in particular has some oddities which are likely 'stuck' as pgf is complex and ahas a lot of users. See for example a current live GitHub issue about \hoffset

> Scientists Have Finally Made Quieter Velcro
4

@JosephWright Thanks for the clear words, will switch to lualatex then for everything :-)

3:48 PM
@JosephWright It breaks for me with the new xetex.def, if I delete this it compiles again.

@JosephWright If fixing the note page problem from the pgf perspective is too risky, should we try to workaround this in beamer and smuggle \color{.} into the note page?
% !TeX TS-program = xelatex

\documentclass{beamer}

\usepackage{pgfpages}
\setbeameroption{show notes on second screen}

\setbeamercolor{note page}{fg=green}

\makeatletter
\def\beamer@framenotesbegin{% at beginning of slide
\color{.}
\gdef\beamer@noteitems{}%
\gdef\beamer@notes{}%
}
\makeatother

\begin{document}

\begin{frame}{Frame 1}
This text is visible
\note{frame 1}
\end{frame}

\begin{frame}{Frame 2}
\color{red}
This text is invisible
\note{frame 2}

@PauloCereda but... but... then it's not velcro O.o

@Plergux ooh

4:04 PM
@PauloCereda I had to research to understand this sentence...

@Skillmon oh
@Skillmon @Plergux gizmodo.com/…

@PauloCereda Like bubble wrap that doesn't pop, it is an abomination. :p

@Plergux indeed!

@PauloCereda now I also want a doughnut :)

@samcarter_says_quack me too :)

4:15 PM
@PauloCereda :)

@JosephWright Will xparse documentation still be distributed as xparse.pdf, or will we make it a stub pointing to userguide3?

4:30 PM
@JosephWright I don't know exactly what beamer is doing, but \current@color has clearly not the format the new commands in xetex.def expects:
\documentclass{beamer}
\tracingmacros=1
\color{.}

\begin{document}
\end{document}
fails with
\convert@color #1->\ifx #1\init@current@color \expandafter \convert@color@init \else \expandafter \convert@@color \fi #1
#1<-\current@color

\convert@@color #1->\expandafter \convert@@@color #1\stop
#1<-\current@color

\current@color ->\xcolor@ {}{gray 0}{gray}{0}

\convert@@@color #1 #2\stop ->\csname convert@color@#1\endcsname {#2}

! Argument of \convert@@@color has an extra }.
<inserted text>
\par
l.24 \color{.}

@PauloCereda Oh, Persian <3

@JairoA.delRio ooh

4:47 PM
@PauloCereda سلام! چطوری؟

@DavidCarlisle ^^ I almost instinctively replied "oh no" to the previous sentence.
2

@PauloCereda Aside from the alphabet, I only remember some phrases and basic verbs. I was learning verbs, but somehow I stopped doing it

@JairoA.delRio cool! I tried to learn Turkish, but I had not time back then. I might come back at it at some point...

@PauloCereda Merhaba (?)
@PauloCereda Good luck! Agglutinative languages are a nice challenge

@UlrikeFischer Ah, right

4:54 PM
@JairoA.delRio Selam ben Paulo!

@PhelypeOleinik Yes, for the deprecated stuff

@Plergux -- Thought you might like that! Llamas have a wicked kick as well as spitting. The last time we visited, the sheep were being sheared, and they are pretty! I'm sure they have a slate of hand spinners to take the next step. (I'm also quite fond of the "belties", the belted Galloway cattle.)

@JosephWright Ah, ok, so I'll trim down the rest and write a paragraph about userguide3

@Plergux ^^ Justin Bieber's llama :)

4:56 PM
@PauloCereda Oh, I'm now lost. I learnt this greeting from a multilingual banner tbh

@JairoA.delRio Every time David replies to me in a different language, it's usually brunch, breakfast, lunch or dinner, hence the "oh no". :)

@PauloCereda Mikuy (Quechua)

@PhelypeOleinik That's what I sketched out before, but something went wrong :(
@UlrikeFischer I'll work it out :)

@JairoA.delRio oh no

@PauloCereda Cibum (Latin)
@PauloCereda :D

4:58 PM
@JosephWright it is this xxcolor package which mix in something.

@JosephWright Didn't you forget to git push, maybe?

@PhelypeOleinik "it works on my machine"
Jawohl, typical. :)

@PhelypeOleinik Quite possibly
@UlrikeFischer I'm tracing

@barbarabeeton Yeah, those are cool too. I like cows as well. They're so stoic and then they look at you with those big eyes of theirs and seventies film star lashes. :p
@PauloCereda LOL

@JosephWright you still need pgf but one can get rid of beamer:
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{pgf,xcolor,xxcolor}
\tracingmacros=1
\makeatletter
\show\current@color
\tracingassigns=1
\color{.}

5:01 PM
@JosephWright Anyway, I'm doing the latex3 side of the move now. I'm in doubt if I make a branch that can be merged immediately (then when next LaTeX is out we trim out the docs), or a branch to leave there until the release. Any opinion?
I think the former is safer, as it still works if people don't update both at the same time

@PhelypeOleinik We have to deal with the need for a 'fixed' xparse-XXXX-XX-XX.sty for people with older formats, and we won't have ltcmd in the final release until MAy
@PhelypeOleinik I'd go for that too

@JosephWright Got it, I'll do that then

@UlrikeFischer Ah, try
\def\convert@@color#1{%
\expandafter\expandafter\expandafter\convert@@@color#1\stop
}

@JosephWright better ;-)

@UlrikeFischer Checked in

5:15 PM
@JosephWright now that I can try: for me all texts are visible in the example. Your color code seems to improve things ...

@UlrikeFischer The note one?

@JosephWright yes. I'm just trying to compare the pdf to see what happens.

@UlrikeFischer Ah, so good news for @ComFreek

@PhelypeOleinik Hola hola :)
About the differences between European and American Spanish, the
biggest one is the relative inclusion of direct words taken from
English (anglicism), in Latin America (es-la) and Mexico (es-mx) it is
common to use them without any problem according to the context, for
example (@ph) "cadena" is simpler written as "string", "guión" can be
written as "script", etc... in Spain (es-sp) they are more rigid in
this sense and avoid Anglicisms as much as possible. In both cases the
golden rule is the RAE. A specific case of this is the use of quotes (I
2

@PabloGonzálezL Hello :)

5:22 PM
@PhelypeOleinik Como va tu día?...I hope well :)

@PabloGonzálezL Oh, nice. Maybe it would be nice to have that in the github issue (github.com/learnlatex/learnlatex.github.io/issues/112) or maybe a specific issue for Spanish (@JosephWright)
@PabloGonzálezL Far too hot :)
@PabloGonzálezL Otherwise, very well :)

@JosephWright It is the code in the new xetex.def, it I remove it, the text disappear. This probably mean that you need a new xdvipdfmx.

@PhelypeOleinik Yes, I assume that in Brazil, as in the rest of Latin America, Anglicisms are accepted, that makes the translation a little more "neutral" (watching a movie with subtitles in es-sp is nothing like watching a movie with subtitles in es-la or es-mx)

@PabloGonzálezL Does anybody in Latin America follow the quoting rule outside books? I've only seen it in those cases.

5:31 PM
@PhelypeOleinik I found (tex.stackexchange.com/a/197391/7832) the trick is depreciated, and your tip works better :) .. you should add it.
@JairoA.delRio I blame Word and the typewriters, but, the publications and the respectable newspapers if they follow them, the problem happens because they do not have a character dedicated to the punctual review of this, but, the correct thing is the correct thing.

@PabloGonzálezL Yeah, if I'm reading a text in Portuguese about programming, I will understand a string or a script, and I (that's personal opinion, one which @PauloCereda will hit me on the head with Chapulín's mallet :) find the text a bit awkward (but still perfectly understandable) if I read cadeia instead (no idea how to translate script though :)

@JosephWright Great! How does the fix find the way to end users?

@ComFreek I upload a new xetex.def to CTAN ... probably needs a bit more testing yet - I'll sort a dev release tomorrow

Does that mean MikTeX users can get it via mere "updating in miktex console"?
in some days or weeks, say

@PabloGonzálezL Oh, that's just because \tl_to_lowercase:n is deprecated, so \tex_lowercase:D should be used instead (for some definition of should)

5:36 PM
@PabloGonzálezL Uhm, your last remark is debatable (remember some people still want to write "sólo" with an acute, among others). In any case, following a style guide, as the one RAE provides, shows "professionalism"

@JairoA.delRio Yes, that's my point, if it's available «...» should be used, quotes "..." are accepted without problems, but, the first thing is right

@PabloGonzálezL Fixed it

@PhelypeOleinik Great, I was trying to use that trick, I think the one you gave me threw me a mysterious "i"

@PabloGonzálezL Oh, I saw that, but still didn't find out the source. Must be something I typed by mistake

@ComFreek I just tried in miktex: simply copying the xetex.def worked.

5:42 PM
wohooooo
this is great news

@PabloGonzálezL Got it. Btw, how does LaTeX handle with Spanish quotes?

@ComFreek you can try yourself. The files is here in the develop branch: github.com/latex3/graphics-def/tree/develop

@JairoA.delRio Some time ago I participated in a project that was translated into several languages, as a rule of style for translations, all technical terms were in English (that simple) and a glossary was placed at the end of each translation (that nobody read).

@UlrikeFischer Do you think we need a dev release, or just go for it?

@JairoA.delRio For some reason in LaTeX they are known as French quotes, but, they are available since the creation of 'textcomp' (no idea what year that was), besides, nowadays, 'csquotes' is the best option.
@PhelypeOleinik I tried to catch it, I failed 100% :(

5:48 PM
@PabloGonzálezL Gonna see it asap. I thought their name was "guillemets" in English.

@UlrikeFischer Do you have the filepath of xetex.def you overwrote by any chance?

@ComFreek simply copy it in your document folder for the tests. Or look in the log where the original is.

@PauloCereda Question, I know you are more into Java/Lua, but, maybe you know about it. Have you ever worked with (sphinx-doc.org)?

@PabloGonzálezL briefly, and I must admit I didn't like it. :)

@PauloCereda Some alternative that has the same flexibility in the output formats?..or the best is to abuse 'pandoc`

5:53 PM
@PabloGonzálezL what exactly would you like to achieve?

@PauloCereda Move an old project from 'TeXinfo' to something more modern and easier to handle...
@PauloCereda without dying in the attempt :)

@PabloGonzálezL I meant, format-wise. Sphinx will generate a HTML from rst

@PabloGonzálezL MS Word

@DavidCarlisle :(
@PauloCereda HTML, LaTeX and info (the last one for historical reasons)

@PabloGonzálezL Well, Sphinx only generates HTML from the rst sources. :)

01:00 - 18:0018:00 - 22:00