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1:26 AM
@JosephWright @WillRobertson I hope you travelled well. I'm for the last time at this Zaza bar place, and it's as cool as ever, had to give them 5 stars at google reviews :) (I'm drinking my weissenbier served with lime juice and salt, and it's so good :D )
5 hours later…
6:54 AM
@yo' Great! Yes, I was happy we had a nice place nearby.
@DavidCarlisle Oh dear
7:10 AM
@WillRobertson it's not too bad in our context as all the math fonts seem Ok
1 hour later…
8:27 AM
@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright seeing Javiers problems with arabic and luaotfload it would be perhaps a good idea if the latex team would ask the maintainer "officially" about the future of the package. And I will try to enlarge my test pool by stealing as much as possible from fontspec, unicode-math and the latex testfiles ...
@UlrikeFischer We can, I suppose: it's a tricky one (most of the time it seems to work fine, so it's easy to forget that there is a lot of work to keep in line with ConTeXt/LuaTeX development)
@JosephWright @UlrikeFischer you've got mail:-)
9:06 AM
@DavidCarlisle answered ...
9:22 AM
@AlanMunn oooooooh
@PauloCereda all those dinners in preparation
@DavidCarlisle oh no
Jun 29 '17 at 16:15, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are not mean :)
@DavidCarlisle ooh preemptive answer
9:26 AM
@PauloCereda you are so predictable a preemptive optimisation strategy works well
@DavidCarlisle :)
2 hours later…
11:21 AM
@DavidCarlisle is that your favourite message to cite?
@Skillmon mm I may prefer:
Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle
@PauloCereda finished your thesis?
@DavidCarlisle oh no
@PauloCereda shouldn't you be saying yes by now?
@DavidCarlisle not yet, I still have to deposit the final version. :)
@PauloCereda you should have been working last week, not sitting around drinking beer with Frank:-)
11:30 AM
@DavidCarlisle oh
@PauloCereda so I may still have a few more occasions to use this:
Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle
@PauloCereda finished your thesis?
@DavidCarlisle oh no
11:58 AM
@PauloCereda Always be positive: At least you finished the arara manual :)
@TeXnician :)
@PauloCereda If I were mean, I would say: "Now there are these other applications…", but of course, I'm not mean ;)
@TeXnician ooh
12:21 PM
12:31 PM
@aitía hello
1 hour later…
1:37 PM
hello guys.
Suppose I have 2 counters. How to test if they are equal inside a command with 2 arguments, one for each counter?
More or less like this:
\ifnum #1 = #2
do something
do other things
oh, guys, forget the message.
1:55 PM
questions regarding maple -- which i know isn't appropriate for this site, so what i really need to know is, is there a suitable .so or .sx site where they can be asked. (1) can maple be made to generate vector, as opposed to bitmap, graphics? (2) can fonts be embedded in a graphics file created by maple? (thanks.)
@barbarabeeton, hello. I remember from a long time ago to use some command like
plotsetup('postscript', plotoutput=fileName, plotoptions=cat("quality=100,portrait,noborder,width=",w,",height=",h));
to export the plots
This could help:
More precisely, what I did was:
But I have no Maple anymore. Sorry.
@barbarabeeton Absolutely, maple can generate vector graphics. Among the export options for a graph are both EPS and PDF. I can't imagine that they export to PDF without embedding needed fonts in this day and age, but I don't know for sure.
@barbarabeeton PDF export exports to a whole (US letter size) page, and so needs to be cropped. The EPS export doesn't, but it too tends to include too much white space around the picture.
2:16 PM
@Sigur and @HaraldHanche-Olsen -- thanks, guys. that's very useful. now we need to figure out how to tell our author how to get the desired output instead of the bitmaps he's sent in. not having anyone here who knows or uses maple is a bit of a disadvantage. (we can deal with whitespace. it's the actual images that are the problem.)
@barbarabeeton, I used Maple with command lines, not clicking with mouse. So, I just inserted that line before plot commands. Then, instead of view the graph on a box, it was saved to the file.
@barbarabeeton If there are not a lot of these images, it is easily done by mouse: Generate the graph, right click on it (two finger click if using a Mac trackpad), and pick Export → PDF (or Encapsulated Postscript) from the menu. This may be easier to explain than the command line, which can be confusing at best.
3 hours later…
5:03 PM
@barbarabeeton Is Maple still popular? I know it used to be. I never used it, though.
@FaheemMitha -- don't know how popular it is, but some ams authors use it to prepare their figures, so we get questions. i've never used it, nor mathematica, nor any of the other options. (the last time i seriously prepared figures, a tech pen and india ink were the requisite tools. and maybe a leroy set for annotations.)
5:19 PM
@barbarabeeton Ok. I don't even recognize the term leroy set.
@FaheemMitha -- a leroy set was a collection of (physical) templates, or stencils, that one used with a tech pen to add lettering to diagrams or graphs. used mostly by engineers or architects, although here is a nice picture and description that says they were also used for the lettering in old comic books.
5:36 PM
@PauloCereda classical music as recommended by @egreg
@DavidCarlisle LOL
@FaheemMitha Many universities have a site license. Mine does. But I don't know exactly how widespread it is. The company seems to be doing well, though. They're also into online testing and assessment.
@barbarabeeton Oh, now stencils is a word I recognize.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Oh. Yes, they might give it away to students to get them hooked.
6:03 PM
Was speaking to my Brazilian colleague today about Rio ...
@JosephWright it's cold there compared to the temperature we have currently ...
@UlrikeFischer Yup
@UlrikeFischer She's from the Sao Paulo area ...
Is there a setting to disable compression in the PDF output?
6:19 PM
@PeterGrill yes. Which engine?
\pdfcompresslevel=0 and \pdfobjcompresslevel=0
@JosephWright woo
@UlrikeFischer thanks
@UlrikeFischer Probably I should add that sort of thing to l3drivers ...
6:27 PM
@JosephWright in tagpdf I added an "uncompress" key just for this, so yes ;-). The luatex version is \pdfvariable compresslevel = 0 etc.
@UlrikeFischer I know :)
@UlrikeFischer I'll bear this in mind: doing @yo''s file stuff first, then probably PDF-based testing, ...
@DavidCarlisle -- you might be able to answer the "why" in the answer to this question.
6:47 PM
@barbarabeeton is "because it was never designed to work in the inline environments" an answer?
@DavidCarlisle -- well, i would have phrased it as "was designed to not work in the subsidiary environments", but that's not what i think is wanted. i'm sure michael would have had a good rationale.
@egreg but doing it with l3 is cheating (tex.stackexchange.com/q/426019/117050) :)
@barbarabeeton bit distracted now, I only skimmed over the title, I'll look later
@DavidCarlisle -- thanks.
@barbarabeeton the implementation would need to be different, the current ones set their content as full width paragraphs in the outer list (so textwidth currently) the inline ones don't have a natural width until you have seen the whole environment so you would have to throw the text away on the measuring pass and then set the text to the calculated width on the second pass.
6:58 PM
@DavidCarlisle -- that's true, but the point of the subsidiary environments was that they were intended to handle something that was a logical unit, and thus shouldn't be broken. period. (i do remember having that discussion with michael. that was before there was a lot of experience with counterexamples and exceptions. i can't say whether he would change his mind now.)
@barbarabeeton presumably if you made it work the gathered would still be a single unbreakable box but with essentially three rows, the first math the text and the second math
@DavidCarlisle -- well, yes, that's a reasonable argument. what about emulating it with a \clap of a minipage of \textwidth? (oh, i see you just suggested something similar.)
@barbarabeeton but not textwidth it would have to be the width of the gathered (which you don't know until you have typeset the following part of the environment)
@DavidCarlisle -- okay. i'll poke at it after i finish what i'm working on now.
Could someone test the following and tell me the total width of the box and if there are kerns in the log-file between the script chars?








7:31 PM
@Skillmon I like to cheat that way
7:44 PM
@egreg could you test (with luatex) my file above?
@egreg Do you have \kerns in the log-file between the script chars?
@UlrikeFischer The output is similar with XeLaTeX
@UlrikeFischer Yes: \kern1.25 (italic), for instance
@egreg I'm not really caring about xelatex. I'm wondering why the tlg-file from unicode-math (github.com/wspr/unicode-math/blob/master/testfiles/…) doesn't have the kerns but I do.
@UlrikeFischer Different version of LuaTeX?
7:55 PM
@egreg could be, but I tried also with tl17 and had the differences too. And if you get the kerns than it can't be my experimental fontloader. I think I have to ask @WillRobertson if the test is still valid.
What's going on with the top part of the `T` letter?


Hello friends!
Quick question
I noticed that older versions of the LaTeX kernel had, for example, \edef\fmtversion{2011/06/27}
But my version now contains \edef\fmtversion{2018-04-01}
Why did the separator change to -?
8:12 PM
@manooooh The serifs in H and M overshoot. That's normal.
@manooooh Actually, the bar of the T “undershoots” a bit, but that's the idea.
Thank you @egreg, but you can not deny me that it looks disproportionate using bold letters:
At 300% does not look so nice
@PhelypeOleinik -- i'm pretty sure (but haven't checked the archive of the relevant mailing list) that this was to match the iso standard for the date format, which specifies a hyphen rather than a slash.
Ooh, makes sense. Thanks @barbarabeeton :)
Indeed, after digging up a little I found a (rather long) list of commits to the repository :P
8:39 PM
@manooooh No, not really. You should never look at too near big letters.
@manooooh presumably the font designer preferred it that way, you can always use a different font.
@PhelypeOleinik ISO 8601 date format rather than some latex-specific format that Frank invented:-)
@PhelypeOleinik which makes it easier to match dates in auto-generated log files from svn or git or gnu changelog etc which all use iso format dates. the latex code now uses either so you can use \usepackage{array}[2018-01-01] or \usepackage{array}[2018/01/01] with the same behaviour.
oh @barbarabeeton just said that:-)
9:02 PM
@DavidCarlisle LOL
@DavidCarlisle Hmmm, that makes sense indeed :)
@DavidCarlisle I noticed this because some time ago I, naïvely, created a command: \def\checkLTXdate#1/#2/#3{...} and then it stopped working :P
@PhelypeOleinik sorry
9:34 PM
Oct 16 '17 at 15:12, by Alan Munn
8 hours ago, by David Carlisle
yesterday, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are mean
@DavidCarlisle ^^
10:33 PM
@barbarabeeton What do you think of tex.stackexchange.com/questions/443362/… ? Please see the comments, too.
Waiting for my pizza in Foz do Iguaçu. The waterfalls were beautiful and I enjoyed about an hour of walking along the jungle (even saw some monkeys and stuff). Tomorrow I plan the water dam and some more...

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