TeX, LaTeX and Friends

6:13 AM

@PauloCereda Have bought Cuphead: to me feels like a controller game so will use that not KB

Schweinebacke

6:46 AM

@Mico I think, in this case the threat became a thread. ;-)

8:16 AM

@JosephWright Ah yes, it's better with a controller!

@PauloCereda Tried about 5 mins this morning

@JosephWright First impressions?

@PauloCereda Looks fun, though I died three times :)

@PauloCereda Am going to play it for a bit, then probably do The Witcher 3 again on 'NG+', before trying Dark Souls

@JosephWright only three times? You are good! :)

@JosephWright DS3?

@PauloCereda I have all three on Steam but not yet played them: plan to start at the beginning

8:24 AM

@JosephWright Well, in that case, you will be fine. I like to think of Cuphead as a cartoonish version of DS. :)

Ulrike Fischer

9:02 AM

@JosephWright github.com/MiKTeX/miktex/issues/22

10:18 AM

Mac people: does anybody have dual boot?

10:33 AM

@PauloCereda I do have an old Power Mac G5 dual-booting Debian and Ubuntu (old versions) somewhere in my collection.

@TeXnician Interesting! No Mac system anymore?

@PauloCereda No, because that model is over ten years old and I got it with erased (and I really mean erased) hard disk from an institution I was working for.

@TeXnician Ah understood!

12:11 PM

@PauloCereda me:

2

@DavidCarlisle oooooh

@DavidCarlisle :D

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@DavidCarlisle Just remember to remove the boots before you cook it.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen oi

12:41 PM

@UlrikeFischer -- im-mig-rant seems preposterous to me too, so i've looked it up in the "oxford minidictionary of spelling and word division" (reportedly the source of the british hyphenation patterns). yes. "im-mig-rant", "emig-rant", but "emi-gré" and "mi-grant". so i looked up the etymology, and found this: etymonline.com/word/migration . presumably from *(e)meigw- so it makes sense, but still doesn't sound right.

from PIE *(e)meigw- (source of Greek ameibein "to change"), parts in pie could be (e)mei and gw (-> grant)

@barbarabeeton How does one avoid 50+ Over/Underfull \vbox finally ?

I was just reading your question from 5y ago

@alfred -- \raggedbottom woiuld get rid of most of them, but it probably would yield a result that you don't want. let's assume that you have a page of plain text; no sectioning, math displays or floats. if the text height is not an exact multiple of the \baselineskip times (number of lines minus 1) plus \topskip, you will always get an overfull or (usually) underfull \vbox. (cont'd)

{cont'd) if the height of the running head box doesn't accommodate accented letters, you'll get an overfull \vbox. (increase height allowed for the running head.) stretch is (except for a grid-based page) almost always permitted around displays and floats, before section headings, and between paragraphs, to accommodate \flushbottom. look for a pattern in the over/underfull reports and address that.

12:57 PM

actually reading the log i found that an image in the header might cause most of the overfull boxes

I will check each of the bad boxes and get back to your answer

I dont really understand all of it

Ulrike Fischer

@barbarabeeton Thanks. So the main question is should one use a probably correct hyphenation if it doesn't looks right to most people ;-)

actually the log says :
`Package luatex.def Info: sprites-extra.pdf used on input line 419. on input line 419.
Package luatex.def Info: Requested size: 28.45274pt x 16.25922pt on input line 419.
[90]
Underfull \vbox (badness 10000) has occurred while \output is active []`
The image might not be the culprit.

@alfred badness 10000 is "infinitely bad" as it's in the output routine almost certainly your page head is incorrect or you have flushbottom in effect and no way to align the bottom line

this is the head
\pagestyle{fancy}
\fancyhead{}
\renewcommand\headrule{\hrulefill
\raisebox{-7pt}[10pt][10pt]{\quad\includegraphics[width=5mm]{sprites-extra}\quad}\hrulefill}
\setlength{\headheight}{24.7pt}
is 24.7 the problem ?

@UlrikeFischer -- if it's being submitted for publication, let the editor take care of it. (shudder!) otherwise, consider the main audience. if it's going to be read in a particular geographic area, what would readers there be used to? i admit that i'd have as much problem with "im-mig-rant" as i'd have with "heli-co-pter" (which the oxford dictionary hyphenates "heli-cop-pter" even though etymologically incorrect). not a satisfying answer, i know.

1:11 PM

@alfred no do you get a warning on every page or is it just page 91 that is underfull?

@DavidCarlisle What a underfull world.

@PauloCereda At least we can be sure that no pages of your thesis have badness 10000

@DavidCarlisle oh :(

@DavidCarlisle at about half of them 50/103 or 15/31

10000 is only twice in the 31page example

11x badness 3343. 2x badness 1412 (31p is just a kant example with same header)

on the main doc examples are:
Overfull \vbox (3.33452pt too high) has occurred while \output is active[89] [90]
Underfull \vbox (badness 10000) has occurred while \output is active [91]
Overfull \vbox (5.77823pt too high) has occurred while \output is active[92] [93] [94]
Underfull \vbox (badness 10000) has occurred while \output is active [95]
Underfull \vbox (badness 5908) has occurred while \output is active [96]
Overfull \vbox (6.68744pt too high) has occurred while \output is active [97]
Overfull \vbox (6.43495pt too high) has occurred while \output is active [98]

\raggedbottom eliminated about 15. There remain 36 Overfull \vbox now

1:32 PM

@alfred they are different amounts so most likely page contents. If you have \flushbottom you need to ensure that the bottom baseline is achievable which means the page size has to fit an exact number of baselines and any glue added must be possible of being stretched to make the content fit exactly. With raggedbottom there is always stretch glue at the bottom of the page any if you put \showboxdepth=100 \showboxbreadth=100 in the preamble the log will show you what is in each overfull box

1:43 PM

log is showing me text in the footnotes I think, one letter at a time
..\TU/lmr/m/it/9 l
..\TU/lmr/m/it/9 o
..\discretionary (penalty 50)
...< \TU/lmr/m/it/9 -
...= \kern -0.468
..\TU/lmr/m/it/9 g
..\TU/lmr/m/it/9 u
..\TU/lmr/m/it/9 e
..\glue(\rightskip) 0.0
.\penalty 100
.\glue(\baselineskip) 3.91006

it's 100k lines

@alfred so why are you setting footnotes in a box where they do not fit? what does the start of that bit say, where it gives the box size (you can use less than 100 if you want less box log output, latex defaults to -1 so you get no box output at all)

I simply added footnotes in the text

@alfred as I say, what does the box output say. Normally footnotes are just set in abox that is natural size so can not be over or under full

Bubaya

Can I make make tikz linewidths and arrow tips match a larger font size globally?

log is back to 1.7k is not making a difference to the log .. tried deleting output files.

it takes so long to write file.log that's it like it's somewhere else

bon, found it

at the beginning of page 91 it says \vbox(469.47049+0.0)x293.0634, glue set 9.67029, direction TLT

it's actually not just footnotes, it's values on every character on the document

p88 Overfull \vbox (3.33452pt too high) has occurred while \output is active
\vbox(469.47049+0.0)x293.0634, glue set - 1.0, direction TLT

p83 Overfull \vbox (4.27829pt too high) has occurred while \output is active
\vbox(469.47049+0.0)x293.0634, glue set - 1.0, direction TLT

2:35 PM

@DavidCarlisle I think these are the values, but I dont know how to correct the problem. I am reading solutions to similar questions

\setlength{\parindent}{4em}
\setlength{\parskip}{1em plus 0.1em}
got it down to 28 bad boxes

Harald Hanche-Olsen

2:55 PM

@alfred If your pages are all text then I think you need the sum of the parskips on each page to add up to an integral number of baselineskips. So either, make \parskip?\baselineskip (if not zero), or make sure it has enough stretchability.

@alfred (The combination of a really big \parindent and a nonzero \parskip looks rather odd to me, but I suppose you have reasons for that choice.)

(The question mark should've been an equals sign up above. Too late to edit now.)

\parskip=\baselineskip ?

\setlength{\parindent}{4em} \setlength{\parskip}{1em plus 0.1em} where on e solution given by @DavidCarlisle to question like this. I actually prefer \setlength{\parindent}{2em} \setlength{\parskip}{0em plus 0.1em}

@TeXnician: I found out that NetBeans does not work with Java 9.0!

that's strange

Torbjørn T.

3:16 PM

@Bubaya Well, tex.stackexchange.com/questions/389166/… For arrow tips, you can set a different default (tex.stackexchange.com/questions/54796/…), and with the help of the arrows.meta library (see manual) you can modify the size.

@PauloCereda Oh, what's the error for Netbeans?

@TeXnician Oh I didn't launch it, I read about in the website. :)

@alfred tex doesn't care but it's usual use em for horizontal lengths rather than parskip but .1em isn't very much stretch, it would take 12 paragraphs on teh page to have enough flexibility to make up one baseline of text so if you have a displayed equation or an image or a section heading or anything that is not an exact number of baselines you would be in problems, however with \raggedbottom it should be Ok as that gives you infinite stretch on every page.

Mar 26 '12 at 19:37, by David Carlisle

@Canageek moral of the story: never read the documentation, bad things happen

@DavidCarlisle :D

3:33 PM

@PauloCereda have you tried sphinx?

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I know it. :)

@PauloCereda experimenting at the moment. I guess it's more in @percusse's area really.

I am using \raggedbottom

@DavidCarlisle Ah yes, it's Python powered. And it uses RST instead of Markdown.

@DavidCarlisle: some people seem to prefer Asciidoc.

still 35 of them damn boxes

@DavidCarlisle Do you think this could be connected to my hyphenation problem. I have only text at this point.

3:39 PM

@PauloCereda yep, you start with highly structured xml capable of generating html or pdf documentation, and fortran C, python etc code to match, then while generating the python you put ascii code coments in and then you extract them and make doc with sphinx it sort of makes some sort of sense:-)

@DavidCarlisle oh my

@alfred no unlikely to affect vertical space

@DavidCarlisle I am considering of porting the arara documentation to Asciidoc.

@PauloCereda you wouldn't want to use anything old fashioned like TeX?

@DavidCarlisle That too. :)

3:42 PM

can asciidoc be embedded in pydoc doc strings in the same way? (that is is there some existing tool that constructs a tree of asciidoc from a tree of commented python)

when I increase hyphenmin to 4 nr of damn boxes goes up

@alfred vertical or horizontal?

I need a moment to check

5 more vbox and 4 more hbox, from 35 to 44

@alfred well the hyphenation won''t itself change the vertical spacing but of course once you change the linebreaking and have a paragraph with a different number of lines the vertical space will change

@alfred just look at each one in turn and see why it doesn't fit.

that's what I was thinking, that if it has problems arranging the text horizontally, it might end up pulling more lines

percusse

3:56 PM

@DavidCarlisle yes indeed. I use it via readthedocs

Can't say I'm good at it but fits the bill

this is the content for pg 87 pastebin.com/Zj0DFyTC

Bubaya

@TorbjørnT. Thanks, that helps. However, I still have a problem: With tikz-cd @25pt, I try line width=rule_thickness. However, every diagram appears as it were at normal size. If I set a width manually, it works. Why?

Torbjørn T.

@Bubaya tikz-cd might have its own styles (see e.g. the comment on my answer to the question about arrow tips I linked to). If the manual doesn't give any hints, you could ask a question. I don't know the answer offhand.

Bubaya

4:41 PM

@TorbjørnT. Anyway, it works you, though with manually setting the width; thanky!

thanks*

Another question: Might it be that with sansmathfonts, math is heavier then text?

@DavidCarlisle I think it can, but will report back later on. :)

@DavidCarlisle I dont understand what it says

5:29 PM

@alfred no i mean look at the output, presumably the pages with problems have figures or tables or something that is too big

5:45 PM

@alfred try the log with \showboxbreadth=\maxdimen \showboxdepth=1 (the log you show in the paste doesn't show anything useful)

no at this point there is only text in the document. I will do that in two hours or so

Q: Over 200points of daily reputation (My Answer given to other user?)

@alfred well then most likely, as barbara said originally, your page size is wrong. If there is a page that is just text then it has to be an exact number of baselines so if the page size is not exactly that there is no way the page can be made

Alan Munn

@JosephWright Did you see this? It seems quite strange.

3

Just after reached the maximum daily reputation, I see this post: Horizontal space in itemize with different label. If you try to check closer the answers, you will see that my answer has been given to another user (to @Bernard) with exactly my code but a different picture. Is this something rel...

Torbjørn T.

6:01 PM

@AlanMunn My guess would be copy-paste mistake.

Alan Munn

@TorbjørnT. Yeah, that seems likely.

Q: tkz-euclide problem with \newcolumntype

Frank's version of array misses so many features:-)

0

I'm trying to run a latex file by Stefan Kottwitz, it calls tkz-euclide: % Circles in and around a triangle % Author: Stefan Kottwitz % https://www.packtpub.com/hardware-and-creative/latex-cookbook \documentclass[border=10pt]{standalone} \usepackage{tkz-euclide} \usetkzobj{all} \begin{document}...

tkz-euclide

the page height is 210mm, width might be something strange like 142mm

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@alfred \textheight must be an integer multiple of \baselineskip + \topskip as barbara explained to you before. Otherwise a page that only has text can not possibly fit in the specified page exactly so the page will always be over or under full

@alfred you should set the page dimensions using the geometry package and use its option to automatically fix the textheight by rounding to the nearest multiple of baselineskip

6:13 PM

@DavidCarlisle Not everything is as stable as xii.tex ;)

@AlanMunn Yes, I did

@DavidCarlisle ok, will do that

6:49 PM

Evening all

@JosephWright Hi!

@PauloCereda Cuphead is tricky :)

@JosephWright And addictive. :)

@JosephWright I wish to play it co-op, but there's no one nearby. :)

@TeXnician but xii is so new in comparison

@DavidCarlisle: get M a copy of Cuphead. @JosephWright can vouch.

6:53 PM

@DavidCarlisle 8 years? In terms of TeX development speed that seems to be negligible...

@TeXnician there is that

@DavidCarlisle What?

@TeXnician expression of agreement:-)

@DavidCarlisle well I never

@PauloCereda Let's wait for @DavidCarlisle reposting one of your "Oh yes" messages ;)

6:57 PM

@TeXnician ooh

Sep 29 at 12:09, by Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh yes :)

@DavidCarlisle oh no

7:40 PM

is it a problem with my font or with TeX if a tall letter is not treated specially?

meaning in hebrew, the letter ל is taller than the others

and I'm having problems with alignment b/c of it

with boxes and stuff

illustration of height difference: אבג--ל--הדשמ

8:04 PM

Critical elections in the Czech Republic tomorrow, please keep your fingers crossed and your prayers with us!

@AGoldMan alignment of what with what?

apologies for unclarity: two vboxes next to each other in an hbox

@yo' sorry experience shows that doesn't work

@AGoldMan even less clear:-) why are you boxing things at the character level that way (if you are doing that it's up to you to align things)

@DavidCarlisle how can you know?!

@DavidCarlisle for outputting footnotes in two columns.

8:07 PM

@AGoldMan in principle that is no different to an accented letter being taller than unaccemted ones is it (or L being taller than a)

@AGoldMan ? why do footnotes require you to vbox individual letters?

@DavidCarlisle I'm not vboxing letters, I'm vboxing paragraphs

@yo' because I crossed my fingures and was disappointed

but if one paragraph has a tall letter and the other doesn't, they don't come out even

@AGoldMan either you vbox then you need a \strut at the top or you \vtop and need a \strut at the end (although that should be \parbox[t] and \parbox[b] of course.

@DavidCarlisle oh but this has nothing to do with disappointment :-)

8:11 PM

@DavidCarlisle is there a reasonable way to add a strut to an already built paragraph? You know, other than taking it apart with \lastbox?

b/c the second of my boxes is split off from the first

seeing as their double column footnotes

*they're

@AGoldMan you should be able to arrange that the split box has a consistent top baseline so long as \splittopskip is greater than the height of any letter then all boxes will have top baseline splittopskip from the top

@DavidCarlisle can i use the height of strutbox for that?

@AGoldMan yes or anything you like latex has a global default of 10pt (probably not really enough at larger font sizes but in footnotetext it is locally set to \footnotesep which should be more than enough normally)

thank you so much

what would we do without @DavidCarlisle

@yo' -- will hope for the best for you. (@DavidCarlisle is right, though: even prayers are chancy. and disappointment is the least of it. local government here is mostly disappointing; national government is disastrous.)

on a somewhat lighter note: wapo.st/2xQ7bzK (well, lighter for some folks, not necessarily for the victims.)

8:25 PM

@barbarabeeton spam today pineapple tomorrow and lovely pizza by the weekend

@DavidCarlisle -- i'm willing to consider spam sushi, but not spam pizza.

egreg

@AGoldMan We'd be less annoyed with pineapples

@barbarabeeton well, Babiš shares a lot with Trump, it's almost frightening.

9:30 PM

@yo' -- i question the "almost". (hoping for the best.)

@barbarabeeton well, Trump is definitely frightening, with Babiš it's more complicated. Also, the similarity between the two is frightening.

@yo' -- well, i don't know much about Babiš, but trump makes me nostalgic for george w. bush. and that is frightening!

egreg

@yo' I see that some call him Babisconi!

@barbarabeeton you could instead just put your country in a position that it really doesn't matter who's in charge, and you are doomed whoever it is.

@barbarabeeton :) Babiš is a classical oligarch: clearly connected to StB (Czech KGB), got into high business by basically stealing a company through stock market tricks unknown to people and courts here. Bought two major media just before entering politics. As a minister of finance, he "helped" some companies get investigated and their money and equipment blocked.

@egreg makes sense

9:37 PM

@DavidCarlisle -- there are people who are trying to do that (whether they realize it or not).

9:58 PM

@DavidCarlisle I tried heightrounded, but I'm still getting Overfull \vbox -s (a little fewer though)

@alfred but are the remaining ones on pages that only have text?

there is only text in the whole document for the moment. There is one image at the header

@alfred no section headings?

@alfred if every page is just stacked lines of text \baselineskip apart then they would all have the same size and all be over or under full by the same amount. So there is something you are not telling us.

4 chapters

text, footnotes, italics .. I'm trying to think of something..

@alfred welll I repeat what is on the pages that are over full that is different to the pages that are not over full?

well obviously footnotes are not "just text" they completely change the baseline spacing and take space out of the main page

10:11 PM

I inspected 1 or two earlier, there is just text

I meant no images or graphs

@alfred "just text" == lines of text with no footnotes no paragraph breaks no headings

but yes there are 100 footnotes, paragraph breaks, only five chapters counting intro, and no sections

@alfred setting the page size ensures that a page full of normal text on a normal baseline fits. It does nothing to help a page with footnotes or headings

@alfred I think your default \parskip is 0 so paragraph breaks don't necessarily cause a problem but (especially if using \flushbottom) you need to ensure that there is enough stretchy glue on a page to have a section heading and still make the last line of text reach exactly the page size. with raggedbottom then you basically shouldn't have a problem

\raggedbottom, no \flushbottom, but I will be posting a question on this soon with the code. I dont get Overfull vbox with kant though

@alfred you need to work out what is on your overfull pages presumably enough footnotes to break some space constraints

10:29 PM

@DavidCarlisle This is the question with details : https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/397081/33-overfull-vbox-with-only-text-in-the-document
I will try to find a page with Overfull \vbox and no footnotes if there are

10:39 PM

@alfred you need to fix that example:-)

@alfred a minimal example should make no more than a couple of pages and not require an image. what's the point of a 50 page example that makes no overfull pages?

the link for image is there but i can take it off

ok

corrected that

@alfred remember anyone seriously trying to debug the page breaking will be looking at the log box output so every pointless page of text is thousands of extra lines in the log to debug

\makeatletter
 \def\@textbottom{\vskip \z@ \@plus 1pt}
 \let\@texttop\relax
\makeatother

@alfred why that ^^^ (it does nothing at all as you undo it on the following line)

\baselineskip=1\baselineskip plus 1.5pt

@alfred why that as well ^^^ ! that does nothing as it is undone by \begin{document} but do you really want variable baselines?

I added \baselineskip=1\baselineskip plus 1.5ptonly the last hour, and to be frank I didnt know it undid anything

I have been trying anything I found on other questions ..

@alfred why would you add that? added where it is it is harmless as it does nothing but if you put it after the start of the document the typesetting would be very odd.

just trying anything, doing it badly it seems

10:53 PM

I would suggest that you temporarily delete the question and then re-post it once you have an 1 or 2 page example of your overfull box issue (the overfull hboxes are completely unrelated, but I do not see any overfull boxes at all in that example)

I said it in the question that there arent. I am not sure I can get pages of my text with vbox, but I can try.

You see no value (wrong) in that post ? Not even in the page image

@alfred the example posted has no relation to the question, so to be honest no I don't see any use in the question as posted, i see some people attempted an answer but no answer can possibly help with your vbox issues as your question does not address that at all.

I thought my preamble (page dimensions, some commands) could be the cause

@alfred the page image is unrelated to the code posted and I didn't even consider it to be honest that can't help anyone answer anything, or even see the problem you can't tell it's overfull

@alfred your preamble as I say is very weird but as demonstrated by the example posted doesn't cause anything particularly bad

the way to make an example is same as always, start from a copy of your document delete everything except the part that makes one overfull page checking you get the problem still with the cut down document, then if the text is private just change all the letters to foobar the vertical box size only depends on the number of lines on each paragraph so you can easily replace the text by junk text that makes the same size paragraph.

\linespread{1.1} will again invalidate the \textheight calculation. why have you got that?

ok, it will take me an hour or so, I dont know if i can finish it tonight

It's from earlier, to give the text more 'air'

11:09 PM

@alfred but why not set \baselineskip to what you want rather than set it too small then scale it up?

when it says
[12]
Overfull \vbox (2.69997pt too high) has occurred while \output is active
[13] [14] [15]
is it page 12 or 13 that has the Overfull \vbox

@alfred 13 most likely

I thought it was another way to do it

@alfred well it is but if (not shown in your example) you are for example asking geometry to fix \textheight to a multiple of \baselineskip it's best to let it know the value you are actually going to use

baxx

is biblatex generally used for bib's ? I'm just looking at a guide from 2014, checking that there's not something more suggested since then

11:17 PM

the two pages I tried give only overfull hbox -s, no vbox

what values can I use for \baselineskip

@baxx it depends, it's popular here but most journals, if they accept latex will b requiring bibtex rather than biblatex

baxx

@DavidCarlisle hrm ok - I'm using this for personal stuff at the moment, i don't expect to need to meet a journals requirement like that... so should be alright cheers.

Do people usually use an external tool for bib entries or enter them manually?

@alfred well if you have an overfull vbox on page 13 then you can discard everything after that so that's already a 13 page example so much better than the 50 page example already posted. Then note that if the overfull page is page 13 the only thing that matters is th eparagraph starting on page 12 that gets the text in the right position so delet all the text before that and add junk text before that paragraph so the page break happen at the same line

I see, how do you set the right amount of text though. Also I tried a third page, the text is probably not in the same exact place though, and no vbox

@baxx you mean entering the .bib format they do one or the other (or both) theer are these days lots of tools and websites and search things that claim to give bibtex formats for citations, but still you may need to hand edit to make them consistent. but I've not really done this for real since last century so don't ask me:-)

11:26 PM

this is getting complicated

@alfred just look at your bad document the top of the page will say zzz something carrying on from the previous page...` so just discard mos of the text before that point and then add x\\x\\x\\x\\x\\x\\x to make a 7 line paragraph or whever size paragraphs you need to make your bad page break happen at the same place

@alfred why? it is really easy all you have to do is make a page with the same text as the page you have that is overfull, and it will be overfull in your example.

just remembered I have a font that will have to be downloaded

also how do you set the right amount of x\\x\\x\\x\\x\\x\\x is you have to compile each time to see the text

@alfred not necessarily (or at least only do that if you really have to) try your document just using latin modern default font and if you get overfull boxes with that start from there

11:42 PM

I think I have one vbox

trapped

I also add 3mm between a footnote and the rule

the vbox is just Overfull \vbox (0.3491pt too high) has occurred while \output is active I have bigger ones than that

@alfred in your example you had \sloppy in which case the box has to be at least .5pt overfull to be reported