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12:11 AM
btw, on the hyphenation matter I was getting bad hyphenations in cases like kr-ishterimi, mp-rehtë (no vowel in the segment, I didnt know how to avoid those except in a case by case basis, so I put hyphenmin to 4, and there are no errors
there are words that could be better hyphenated as @egreg pointed out, but it's not necessarily an error
4 hours later…
3:48 AM
Hi chat!
I am using Sharelatex and i want to insert a pdf file in b/w my document
I referred here
but its not helping
4:48 AM
@BAYMAX So, what, exactly, are you trying, and what is not working?
2 hours later…
6:40 AM
some music for the morning soundcloud.com/milosao-1/albfin
@BAYMAX just save the pdf in black and white on your local machine and then include the b/w copy into latex
6:59 AM
@DavidCarlisle If you look at my code there is lots of unwanted stuff
the 3mm though was intentional
@alfred yes but it is wrong
you suspect it to be the problem ?
@alfred yes of course latex hasn't got a hope of getting the page breaks right if every page with footnotes has 3mm of contents that it does not expect to be there
can i convert the 3mm to smth proportional to baseskips
@alfred note you said your overflow was up to 7pt, and 3mm is 8.5pt so that is about the amount expected
7:03 AM
ok, could try to run without that to verify
@alfred it's an odd thing to do at all but yes of course you can use .1\baselineskip or whatever, and the same negative amount before the rule
the book is for a friend of mine, he said the line was to close
how much is a baselineskip
@alfred yes but that isn't the way to fix it, although it's fine as long as you do as I show and move the line up without changing the total space
there are only 12 hboxes and one vbox of 0.93393pt once that is taken off
can you add that to the answer ?
@alfred well by default 13.6pt since you are using 11pt text but otherwise it's whatever you set it to
@alfred in the test document there are no overfull vbox (which is what I would expect after the change I suggest) the hbox are not related
7:15 AM
the hboxes are due to hyphenation, my hyphenmin of 4 is too restrictive, did you read what I was saying about the patterns last night ?
the rule is too close to the text now
I'm running texlive now
installed it yesterday but didnt know it had been replaced in my editor
7:45 AM
@alfred yes but as I say it's not related to the question as posted about vboxes
@alfred you will get identical output with texlive as you get with miktex they use the same program sources
is it java ?
from the gui it looks like it
@alfred make footskip bigger
i tried \addtolength{\skip\footins}{2pt}
7:47 AM
@alfred gui?
graphic user interface
@alfred yes I know what a gui is, but tex hasn't got one:-)
oh, the tex live manager
@alfred not sure what that's written in, I never use it.
I started with java but I have always hated it's guis
texlive is actually faster, but I had gotten used to some things with miktex
@DavidCarlisle I tried \addtolength{\footskip}{10mm} but the rule is still too close
7:53 AM
@alfred well at 12mm then....
way too close
@alfred I doubt it's faster in general although Ulrike posted a miktex bug this week about file searching being slow (that is now fixed in the miktex source) so perhaps you just had a passing bug.
@alfred there is nothing subtle tex does here it inserts \vskip\footins \footnoterule between the end of the text and the start of the footnotes, so you can make \footins as big as you want but \footnoterule must take no space.
@alfred oh I think that was the question @UlrikeFischer raised the bug about, that's fixed at source.
that's quick
8:03 AM
@DavidCarlisle @alfred yes at least it forced me to look at the question -- I had already wondered for some time why there was the pause (and actually wanted to blame the latex team that expl3 isn't yet in the format ;-)).
@UlrikeFischer Be careful what you wish for ;)
Top of the morning!
@UlrikeFischer Has been suggested in the past but when we were not making any changes to latex.ltx. One might today argue we could include expl3 in the format, though as it gets updated quite a bit that might be an issue.
8:32 AM
@DavidCarlisle I posted this question on the footnote rule tex.stackexchange.com/questions/397120/…
Yay, I've been announced!
[GuITmeeting] -1 Intervento 9: Template Engine with TeX and Friends Paulo Roberto Massa Cereda @paulocereda
@Johannes_B ^^ more templates, señor penguino <3
@mickep@DavidCarlisle I have a PDF file which i want to include b/w page say 3 and 4 ? How do i do that in sharelatex?
@BAYMAX as I say just use a black and white pdf you convert th epdf with some ghostscript tool or simpler just print it to a plack and white file using your printer driver from a pdf viewer
black and white pdf
@PauloCereda they like to publicise the menu early, being an italian meeting food is an important consideration.
8:43 AM
for hard copy it is ok
but i have to submit the soft copy
@DavidCarlisle oh no
you meant i should use some online tool to do thaT?
@BAYMAX yes but print-to-file and get a new pdf that's black and white
@DavidCarlisle: is my firewall able of protecting me? :)
sorry but i donot understand
8:45 AM
@PauloCereda wall of fire? oh a spitroast...
@DavidCarlisle OH NO
but how do it in softcopy>?
I can print them separatel and add them
@BAYMAX most systems have a "print to file" option surely?
why should i print when i have to submit the softcopy only? :)
@BAYMAX well I thought you would find that easier than using some commandline tool to convert the pdf. "print" is only a name that the operating system gives to a file transformation it doesn't mean you have to print anything
for example on windows you typically see :
8:50 AM
cannot i include the pdf in sharelatex code?
@BAYMAX make a black and white pdf first:-) then upload that to sharelatex
@alfred This is unrelated to the meat of your question, but: You can replace \@pt with just pt and \@width with width and thereby avoid the \makeatletter\makeatother dance. \@pt and friends are just space optimisation hacks for use in package and class files, there is no need for them in user documents.
@DavidCarlisle ooh west wing
I understand about wings
@PauloCereda Presidential, it be.
@DavidCarlisle oh no
8:55 AM
I see "Print a s grayscale" , "print as image"?@DavidCarlisle
@BAYMAX greyscale is presumably OK
@PauloCereda, @DavidCarlisle, @ChristianHupfer, @CarLaTeX, @egreg Good morning and to everybody
@HaraldHanche-Olsen \@pt stands for 1pt, so it's not always replaceable with just pt.
@egreg Many wishes for reaching 603,457 of reputation. I vote always your answers , too.
@egreg True. The usages in @alfred’s post all had numbers before them, though.
9:14 AM
@Sebastiano Good morning!
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Thanks, I will try that.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Did you mean
\hrule \width 2in \kern 2.6\p
\kern 3mm}
@alfred no he meant what he said 3pt not 3\p and width not \width
I tried pt also and the original code said @p
ok right
@alfred 3\p@ is another way of writing 3pt
\hrule width 2in \kern 2.6pt
\kern 3mm}
9:27 AM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen yes although there is no real reason to backspace by the odd amount of 3mm+3pt so you could do
\hrule width 2in \kern -.4pt
\kern 3mm}
ok, it works fine now
@alfred ^^
@DavidCarlisle :) Just trying to deal with one topic at a time. By the way, I wonder if the space saving by using \@pt and friends is worth it on modern computers? Not to mention all the occurrences of \z@ I see scattered around.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen I have an answer on that...
A: What does \z@ do?

David Carlislelatex.ltx says \newdimen\z@ \z@=0pt % can be used both for 0pt and 0 so as it says it is short (and efficient) way of getting 0. You should always have a copy of the latex source file latex.ltx in a text editor window while reading package code:-), or perhaps, if you prefer, the typeset versi...

@HaraldHanche-Olsen we (well @JosephWright) relatively recently removed all the occurrences of predefined zero and one constants in expl3 and replaced by 0 and 1 literal characters. He's so modern:-)
@Sebastiano Ciao!
9:38 AM
it's probably worth in mine, it notices every delay
@alfred unless you have several hundred thousand pages the delay of two \p@ per page is going to be of the order of microseconds.
Why \tableofcontents is not generating me a table of contents in sharelatex?it only dispalys the word "contents" in the file
@BAYMAX run it again
we were talking earlier about expl3-code.tex loading time, what in other's computers is 1s in mine it seems to be 5
@BAYMAX Did you run it twice ?
@alfred well when I first used that code it took several minutes to load, so things are improving.
9:42 AM
ever after doing twice it's displaying "Contents" only
@DavidCarlisle @alfred
@DavidCarlisle ShareLaTeX probably uses latexmk or something, so shouldn't be necessary.
> \begin{document}



@BAYMAX perhaps your document is like @PauloCereda's thesis
you have \chaper{} ?
9:42 AM
@BAYMAX \section* doesn't go to the ToC.
@BAYMAX unnumbered sections do not go to the contents by default
the * makes htat it doesnt go to the toc
can i make them manually
no need
9:43 AM
@TorbjørnT. I don't understand this thing called the internet, do you think it will catch on?
try this \addcontentsline{toc}{chapter}{\setlength\parindent{24pt}Acknowledgement} right after that line
@DavidCarlisle Probably not.
replace with section though
@TorbjørnT. I'll stick to a local tex installation then.
also change 24 if you need
9:45 AM
every word "section" is to be replaced by "\addcontentsline{toc}{chapter}{\setlength\parindent{24pt}Acknowledgement}" right
@DavidCarlisle So, about 100 ns per assignment, in 2012. I think am not going to bother, in my own code. Unless I expect it to execute a bazillion times in typical usage.
no i meant \addcontentsline{toc}{section}{\setlength\parindent{24pt}Acknowledgement}
but I'm not an expert
@BAYMAX in 99% of all cases you don't want \section* but should change secnumdepth: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/394569/…
9:48 AM
@UlrikeFischer I was going to say that:-)
10:00 AM
@DavidCarlisle Sometimes I'm faster ;-)
is there some reason why your \righthyphenmin=2 in the preamble could be overrided, every hyphenation is with at least 4 letters
@alfred it's reset every time you change language (or at least the effective value is the value set when you saved the hyphenation patterns)
I'll try right before \begin then
@alfred actually I'm can't remember, perhaps babel language switches set it explicitly in which case you want it in your babel language definition for mixed language use, check the babel doc
I changed it in polyglossia and I think it overrides, but now I'm on livetex and cant find the right file
10:57 AM
Q: Duck translation

notChosenDictionary translates 'duck' as 'anatra' and 'anitra'. I googled for difference explanation and found in this topic that Italians use 'papera'. So... How should I call duck in Italian?

@DavidCarlisle you are mean
@egreg ooh
11:21 AM
@PauloCereda why is "like @PauloCereda's thesis" a mean thing to say? perhaps it was a compliment, unless you know something about the thesis that you are not saying????
@DavidCarlisle oh no
@PauloCereda see the excellent translation of the answer in comments?
@DavidCarlisle Fantastic. :D
@egreg @PauloCereda asked it under an alias :):):)
11:43 AM
@DavidCarlisle Thesis is... going. :)
12:03 PM
@CarLaTeX One of his sock puppets. ;-)
@PauloCereda coming or going?!
@PauloCereda And how do you translate "I am a naive and friendly duck"?
@yo' progressively. :)
@UlrikeFischer Sono un papero very amico e naive. :)
@PauloCereda too domestic, a bit of wild would be better. What about papatra?
12:12 PM
@UlrikeFischer ooh
If I tex matrcies, I have to do it in the syntax {x&y&...\\q&w&... ...}. Is it possible to predefine the matrix size, like in Matlab, and then fill it with elements? The point is that I do not want to create 100 of macros for all possible matrices.
e.g. matrix(3,4), line1 = {}, line2 = {}, ..., or matrixelement(3,2) = 5 etc.
@Kirill why do you need a macro at all? isn't it just as easy to enter x&y\\w&z as have some macro for a 2x2 matrix and enter \foo{x}{y}{w}{z} ?
@Kirill in matlab you have an allocated data structure to which it makes sense to assign elements but a math mode matric is like an html table it's just a transient thing that is typeset as encountered.
@DavidCarlisle I am texing lecture live. If they write a system of 5 linear equations, or a Sigma matrix for a singular value decomposition, I need to tex it fast, without going through the & and //. Or, counting how much spaces should I do to depict an upper triangular matrix.
12:21 PM
@egreg half a million lines of code to avoid writing 6 & :-)
@Kirill but matrixelement(3,2) = 5 matrixelement(3,3) = 6 matrixelement(3,4) = 22 is going to be slower isn't it?
@egreg I will read that, after the lecture. Thank you. The question is generally about is that possible? I have to be able to depict matrices with a size not bigger as 20, missung some elements like in triangular matrices. And I have to do it fast.
@DavidCarlisle that might be. But imagine a matrix A, which first line and first column are defined. All other elements are 0, but, the (3,4) element is = 1. How can I put it in fastly?
@Kirill anything is possible for example \m[square]{1,2,3,4} \m[upper-triangle]{1,2,3,4,5,6}` to make
1 2
3 4

1 2 3
  4 5
@egreg One of them will be at the GuIT Meeting tomorrow :)
@Kirill It might not be too hard to write a macro that, given \obeylines is active, expands \foo 1 2 45 9 <newline> into `1&2&45&9\`.
is that a package, or do I miss some commands?, @DavidCarlisle
12:25 PM
@egreg could have that implemented by the end of your lecture
@Kirill ^^^
I should mention that I am 0 in programming in tex. Only on the layout - layer. But I haven't programmed any functions or calculations in TeX.
@Kirill no but it's more or less why TeX is a macro based system, the idea is you can easily make up macros for whatever input you want
@Kirill Perhaps a question on the main site is better: you can explain your needs and, maybe, a proposed syntax.
@egreg I will do that! The idea now was to understand if TeX can do that.
@egreg translated in to english "I just implemented this in my head but I'm not going to write it down unless there is a green tick and 15 points on offer" :-)
12:29 PM
Thanks for help! I will read this conversation again after the lecture.
@DavidCarlisle Exactly.
@egreg Sono buono per l'italiano
@DavidCarlisle Google Translator failed this time :)
@CarLaTeX impossible
@CarLaTeX I checked: over half the words end in o so it must be Italian
@DavidCarlisle The correct sentence is: "Sono bravo in italiano": its words end in "o" as well :)
@DavidCarlisle Btw, "sono buono" is the opposite of "I'm mean" :)
12:46 PM
@CarLaTeX perhaps that is why the system chose that form of words, it is all-knowing
@CarLaTeX ooh
@DavidCarlisle you are mean
@PauloCereda sono buono
@PauloCereda Perhaps the exact opposite is "sono ben educato" but "mean" has various meaning among which "cattivo" :):):)
@CarLaTeX David è un brutto bambino? :)
12:51 PM
@PauloCereda I think someone already posted it :)
@CarLaTeX It's always important to keep important links in evidence. :)
@PauloCereda brutto = ugly, it's better "David è un bambino cattivo" :):):)
@CarLaTeX ooh I thought it meant mean. I retracted that!
@CarLaTeX oooooh
Now the song is playing inside my head!
@CarLaTeX AAAAAAARGHHHHH! Il buono, il brutto e il cattivo!
@egreg Sorry I forgot LOL
12:55 PM
@PauloCereda Although the English title is “The Good, the Bad and the Ugly”, switching brutto and cattivo.
@CarLaTeX You were confused by young Clint Eastwood, didn't you? :-)
@egreg Exactly :)
3 hours later…
3:35 PM
4:23 PM
@PauloCereda lol
2 hours later…
5:57 PM
6:25 PM
@PauloCereda Boo!
@yo' ooh a ghost
@PauloCereda a red square, actually
@yo' ooh a red square ghost
@PauloCereda :)
@yo' <3
@yo': how are the elections, Tom?
6:29 PM
@PauloCereda nobody knows anything yet, the rooms close only tomorrow 2pm (in 17.5h)
@yo' Oh my. Fingers crossed.
@PauloCereda thanks
@yo' -- are the polls open at different times in different places, or are they open for more than one day? (here, the polls are open from 08:00-20:00 or maybe an hour later, and the pollworkers have to arrive an hour earlier to set up, and can't leave until the results for that precinct are closed, which is usually about an hour later. it's a terribly long day for the pollworkers!) anyhow, hope for the best.
6:58 PM
@barbarabeeton here it's strange as the voting boxes are left unattended overnight, which IMHO poses a problem. The voting time is Friday 14--22 and Saturday 08--14
@yo' -- oh, my, that is concerning. i hope that at least the rooms are locked, although that isn't a real barrier if someone is bent on mischief.
@barbarabeeton yeah, this is unfortunate. The only good thing is, the rooms are plenty of so any serious mischief would have to involve a large organization, which so far would be fairly visible.
Hi everyone..You may know this: Is it correct to call "introduction" to the first chapter?
@yo' -- hope all goes well. we're off, leaving early in the morning, for a week at a place that "failed" the inspection of a prominent tour guide publisher because the rooms don't have outside locks on the doors. (it's on an island; can't get there except by boat; most of the time there are fewer than 70 people on the island; and there are snakes and alligators in unpredictable places. i love it!)
@Schopenhauer -- many authors do treat the first chapter as an introduction. but many others use the preface as an introduction. it depends on the content and what you consider it to be.
7:15 PM
@barbarabeeton sounds great!
anyway, an uncle and an aunt came for a visit, so I'm off. Nice weekend everyone!
@yo' -- i do think you'd like it. we call it "summer camp for big people". rather more comfortable than camp cots, and (although it's not encouraged) they have good internet connectivity. i suspect most of the migratory birds will already have been through, and nesting season is long over (we usually go in the spring), but the critters on the ground and in the swamps and marshes don't go far.
@barbarabeeton good..just that "introd.." sounds like "I go before first chapter", but as you say, it is plenty of works with C1 as intro..
2 hours later…
8:58 PM
@samcarter: Done.
9:26 PM
@PauloCereda @Joseph Wright What have the Romans ever done for us? ;-)
Q: Large Page Numbers Using Roman Page Numbering Don't Align as Expected in TOC

Olivier GougeonDescription of the Problem When using Roman page numbering, large page numbers don't align as expected in the table of content (TOC). I would expect them to be right-aligned just like Arabic numbers. Preview of the Problem Quick Fix of the Problem Proposed by @alephzero @alephzero proposed ...

@ChristianHupfer they invented ham and pineapple pizza!
@DavidCarlisle And did transport them in boats on aquaeducts?
@ChristianHupfer certainly
@DavidCarlisle Generating new facts for history ;-)
9:49 PM
@UlrikeFischer Thank you!
10:21 PM
@yo' GuITMeeting tomorrow!

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