00:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

12:12 AM
Is there a sty2dtx for l3doc yet? If there isn't, I may very well ask a new Q
(Which is what should be done regardless… :)…)
2

sty2dtx is a CLI tool to convert a commented style file into a Documented TeX file (dtx). It was written and works wonderfully for LaTeX2e packages, but expl3 offers a lot of happy times for package authors. Unfortunately, expl3 also brings with it some hitherto unconventional syntax, such as un...

My memory is truly awful.

1:03 AM
@JosephWright @tohecz @SeanAllred Related?

Hello everybody! Here's a question (unsuitable to TeX.SE, I guess, so I'm asking here). I'm writing (together with a colleague) an introductory book on LaTeX, aimed especially at students who are going to write their theses (math/CS) in LaTeX. Any suggestions about what to include? (We have our own list, of course, but we may have omitted something important.)
In particular: I'm thinking about a chapter on "Automation" (idea: "LaTeX does many things for you"), like the label/ref mechanism. Any other suggestions for things in this chapter? (It might have been a bad idea, since there will be separate chapter about, say, bibliographies, ToC is covered elsewhere etc. Any opinions?)

@cfr it's possible. However, let's suppose that it can't be him :)
@mbork I'm not sure if currently more books for university students are necessary, but it's your choice. I would certainly have a look at Nicola Talbot's Using LaTeX to Write a PhD Thesis.
However, the true question is: Do I want to break my habit of always carrying a Bible while on a long journey when I certainly don't need it, or do I not?

1:45 AM
@tohecz: really? I do not know of too many good LaTeX introductory books in Polish. (Did not understand the Bible comment, though.)

@mbork ah I see your point. Well, the question is whether it's better to make a new book, or translate some of the existing ones (most authors would give a permission for the book to be transslated). Sorry, the comment with the Bible is just me venting my travel fever, you can happily ignore it :)

I see. Well, translating is not an option - especially that an important part of the book will be "what to do to make LaTeX obey Polish typesetting traditions".

@mbork you can always add such a chapter into a translation, but I see your point

Also, we want the book to be kind of a "LaTeX cookbook" (indeed, this is the translation of the title), centered around recipes ("howtos") and not a regular "lecture-style" thing, like the "Not So Short Introduction" and so many others.

1:55 AM
I know. Much too advanced. (In fact, even portions of the "novices" book of Nicola Talbot is too advanced for this project!)
Another thing is going to be that we want to include some general advice on typography.

well, ok then. I'm just having some concerns over "using features without understanding principles" when I hear "a cookbook" :)
anyways, good luck!

Yes, you're right. This is a concern. In each "recipe" we show three things: source code, output and a (concise) explanation.
The problem with students is that they don't want to read a lot, they want the job done. And it's not entirely irrational.
So we put strong emphasis on the "concise" part.
Also, take into consideration that they are bachelor/master's level students, not very likely to use TeX after graduation, so they don't want to spend more time than necessary on it. I know this is harsh for us TeX lovers, but this is reality...

That's why I try to put effort into teaching LaTeX and not writing books about it. In my dept, we've got a subject on it
@mbork don't underestimate TeX! I know a lot of people in industry who use LaTeX whenever they can

Then you're quite happy. I couldn't even get any funding for this book, so we do it more or less pro publico bono...

@mbork well, opening a course on something doesn't directly cost money to the department (of course there're costs, but are "hidden"), so you can try to push this through ;)

2:04 AM
Yes, it's true, too. But the students are not aware of that. They have to write their thesis in LaTeX, they hate it (the thesis, not necessarily LaTeX), they probably want to forget the whole experience ASAP. Telling them that LaTeX might be useful for them in their professional life might result in a big ORLY?.

Hello @PaulaBlanton! I've never seen you here before. How're you?

True. But I have so many teaching-related duties that preparing a new course now is impossible for me...

@mbork well, you obviously have plenty time between 2 and 3 in the morning :) :p

@cfr Good heavens.

Ha. I should be working now. (And I probably should get some sleep, too.) So bye for now!

2:08 AM
@SeanAllred well, these are good heavens, compared to the afternoon case
@mbork so should I, but I can blame the travel fever :p
good night @mbork!

@mbork If your focusing on Math/CS, an appendix about the language itself wouldn't be a bad idea. It was an epiphany when I discovered the lisp-ness of TeX.
( Also, good night :) )

@SeanAllred: thanks. (Though TeX is not an acceptable Lisp;-).) And our math students know (unfortunately) next to nothing about programming. This would only confuse them...

@mbork It's a functional language – explain macro definitions as iterative maps
(or if there is a better analogue to recursive functions that I don't know about)

or ask @egreg on how to explain it :)

Well, maybe - theoretically. From the practical standpoint, actual programming in TeX is a PITA. (I hear that expl3 helps a lot - I'll have to learn it some day.)

2:14 AM
@mbork but remember that possilbly alot != enough

2:33 AM
@SeanAllred 'I want code for latex' had a depressingly familiar look... (Though I seem to have managed to miss the main events earlier...) Perhaps it is just an unfortunate turn of phrase on a coincidentally similar topic? And the tone is not... as unreasonable...

2:59 AM
@cfr I think it's just an unfortunate coincidence. That phrase will be a little painful to me for a while yet
Can someone make sure I'm not going crazy? gist.github.com/c848faffde0d2d25ddef
For some reason \AtEndDocument is executing before the first page is being processed
This is my demonstration vvv
\documentclass{minimal}
\AtEndDocument{\typeout{wat}}
\begin{document}
hello, world
\end{document}

3:14 AM
If I could tag it , I would. Link below in case you know what's going on -- shouldn't be answered in chat when there is a Q :P
0

I must be doing something incredibly stupid, but I've boiled it down just as far as it can go with no luck. I'm working on a bug that's cropped up in a recent commit in pagectrl @ca7dc3. I have the following minimal example: \documentclass{minimal} \AtEndDocument{\typeout{wat}} \begin{docume...

7 hours later…

1 hour later…
11:13 AM
News from outside world:
Best of Aviation.se: "first in the business of making toilet seats. Switching to propellers came naturally" — rbp 12 hours ago

3 hours later…
2:29 PM
So much for that question of mine being buried… yoikes
How can I tell if I've found an l3kernel bug?

2
First snow in my home region

@ChristianHupfer My, that's pretty

@ChristianHupfer Snowing here as well, but just a little bit.

@SeanAllred: Thanks...

@ChristianHupfer It's very flat where I live now – I really miss the mountains

2:34 PM
@Johannes_B: Well, yesterday morning was some more snow even down in the valley where I live, but on top of the mountains, there is about 10 cm (not much, right now, but more will come)

@ChristianHupfer As long as it does not rain, i am happy.

@SeanAllred: You used to live in a mountain region?

@ChristianHupfer Maryland backs right into the Appalachian Mountains

@SeanAllred... Appachalians ... that could be about 6000 feet in altitude, right?

@ChristianHupfer Mount Mitchell is a little under 7000 ft / a little over 2km
@ChristianHupfer To be fair though, the highest point in Maryland is only a little over 3000 ft
Hoye-Crest is a summit along Backbone Mountain just inside of Garrett County, Maryland. It is the highest natural point in Maryland at an elevation of 3,360 feet (1,020 m). The location, named for Captain Charles Hoye, founder of the Garrett County Historical Society, has a marker and offers a view of the North Branch Potomac River valley to the east. The location is accessible via a path leading from U.S. Route 219 to the west. == Accessing Hoye-Crest == There is no direct road access to Hoye-Crest. The best route is a hike in from a point along U.S. Route 219 just south of Silver Lake, ...

2:40 PM
@SeanAllred: Well, 7000 ft is alot more than about the 1.2 km of the mountains in the back of my photograph

@ChristianHupfer Very true :) I've never seen the 7000 ft one though – that's way down in Mississippi… there's so much of my country that I just haven't seen :(
I've heard the Rocky Mountains are something to behold

@SeanAllred: I have not seen already a lot of our small Germany here ... no wonder that somebody has not seen a lot of the USA ;-)

@SeanAllred E-mail me :-)

But I can email you as well if you'd like to have it on file there :)
@ChristianHupfer That makes me feel a lot better :)

@JosephWright »Yes the achemso style is required. Unless it is possible to obtain a similar format using biblatex.

Authors, Title, Journal name in italic, Year in bold, Volume in italic, pages.«

2:46 PM
@Johannes_B Huh?

@Johannes_B There is a biblatex ACS style

@JosephWright I know, and i noticed that it differs from the OPs description.

@Johannes_B Article title varies between their journals

@JosephWright If he wonders why it looks different with chem-acs he should load the achemso bibstyle.

2:48 PM
@Johannes_B They should be the same other than biblatex versus classic BibTeX requirements for the database
@Johannes_B I write both ;-)

@JosephWright »The author of achemso is also the maintainer of biblatex-chem, providing a style chem-acs, which covers most of American Chemistry Society Journals.« :-p

@Johannes_B The achemso package is mainly aimed at using the achemso style, so I'd just not use it for the biblatex case

@JosephWright Right, the OP wanted to have chapterbibs with achemso, i suggested to use biblatex with refsections and chem-acs.

@SeanAllred doesn't look like a bug really:-)

@DavidCarlisle Is it a fact that I can't die there? Is there nothing I can do to coerce the matter?

2:58 PM
@SeanAllred No

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle Well I suppose that solves that.

3:22 PM
I hate Crossposting.
4

@Johannes_B ^ seconded

@DavidCarlisle: I will give you a 200 bounty if you post a reference to Madonna's Die another day in your answer to @Sean's "die" question. :)

@PauloCereda Is that even allowed? XD Seems very corrupt to me :)

@SeanAllred LOL
@SeanAllred: TeXvertising. :)
^^ sounds German.

@SeanAllred You haven't ever heard of this Cereda klan? Whey're strong mafia, they can do whatever they want :p
@PauloCereda that would be TeXvertiesung not TeXvertising

3:34 PM
@tohecz ooh LOL

I've gotta say – the German sounds way cooler.

@Sean: I once gave a bounty to someone. Reason: cookie monster. :)
@SeanAllred Indeed! :)

@SeanAllred Googly eyes FTW!

@PauloCereda @Werner's last suggestion on this answer
11

A professional approach: Leslie Lamport, developer of LaTeX, called it: LaTeX – A document preparation system as is visible on the LaTeX project website. Moreover, your first slide could include the fundamental use of LaTeX (also from the above reference): LaTeX is a high-quality types...

3:37 PM
@SeanAllred yes, yes, YES!!!!!! XD

@PauloCereda Ahm nom nom nom nom nom >:)
tokens fly everywhere

@PauloCereda: No, it does not sound German :D

@SeanAllred you can generate an error but if the user decides to scroll past the error... you could try to \aftergroup the \end recursively until you get to outer vmode but that isn't guaranteed success, it depends where the token ends up

@Johannes_B Number 7 is priceless. :) Make friends with Germans or at least people who can speak German better than you.
@ChristianHupfer Oh. :)

3:42 PM
@DavidCarlisle "If the design is too complex, it was never meant to be done."

@PauloCereda I'm not sure who that is. I'll ask @egreg he knows about music

@PauloCereda: If you don't tell me the joke I'll hit you properly :D

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I know about music, not random noise.
2

@ChristianHupfer Uh-oh. :)
@DavidCarlisle Oh no!

@egreg :)

3:45 PM
@egreg Alan might know about her, she's from Michigan. :P

I like Werner's remark about 'Come on over to the dark side' :D

@ChristianHupfer but that's exactly what you don't want to be: Perl.

@tohecz: Perhaps, but the line is cool anyway :D

3:59 PM
@SeanAllred updated my fatal error answer:-)

@PauloCereda We have to speak german. Guten Tag, meine Name ist Hase.
Wait, i think i am a penguin?

@Johannes_B Hallo! Guten Tag! ein Bier, bitte!
Since I cannot remember the numbers in German, I'll adopt an unary representation: ein ein ein ein ein Bier, bitte!
3

@DavidCarlisle Will you start studying expl3? :P
\ExplSyntaxOn
\cs_new:Nn \sean_do_test:
{
\bool_if:nTF { \mode_if_inner_p: || \mode_if_horizontal:p }
{
\group_insert_after:N \sean_do_test:
}
{
\sean_test:
}
}

@egreg you say tomato I say tomato, let's call the whole thing off
2

@PauloCereda You know sign language, but be careful, we know that you are not a german if you do it wrong.

4:10 PM
@DavidCarlisle Incomplete \ifnum several times.

@egreg Yes but if you want to make a fatal error who am i say you shouldn't do it inside an \if

@SeanAllred You find the expl3 code above; just fix the typo: \mode_if_horizontal:p should be \mode_if_horizontal_p:

@egreg yep :)
Was AFK for a tiny bit

@SeanAllred Should I edit David's answer?

@egreg I was actually going to suggest so
!!/battle
… :(

4:21 PM
@SeanAllred Psmith's sleeping.

@SeanAllred I was at the fire station all morning, no time for frivolities like scoring more points than @egreg

@DavidCarlisle Was NAG burning off?

@DavidCarlisle Excuses… :) What for, though?

@egreg you'd get it wrong
@SeanAllred learning about evacuation procedures and use of extinguishers and stuff

4:32 PM
@DavidCarlisle My tactics is slightly different: run, run, run for your lives!

@egreg's edited my answer:( but left in the Madonna reference because he'd love @PauloCereda to give me a well earned bounty:-)

What is our too-localized equiv? tex.stackexchange.com/questions/192691/…

@DavidCarlisle Oh my! I'll award you as soon as the system lets me. :)

@SeanAllred This is Psmith's substitute The current score is egreg 245 vs. David 175

@PauloCereda You don't have to but I just wanted @egreg to know he's contributed to a bounty question, to make him feel happy.

4:36 PM
@DavidCarlisle :)
@DavidCarlisle I will, it's well earned. :)

On the other hand ... writing a short answer.

4:58 PM
I looked at the documentation for the quoting package. I don't see an obvious way to add vertical spacing to a piece of quoted text - should I just add the spacing manually?
no, hang on, there is a vskip. never mind, let me try that.
not sure what listvskip is. the manual says "A boolean option that, if enabled, adjusts quoting’s vertical spacing to that of list environments (and ignores vskip in the process)."
Never noticed what the spacing of list environments is.
I tried \usepackage[vskip=10in]{quoting} but this has no visible effect on before and after vertical spacing. Am I using the wrong syntax?

@FaheemMitha Can you give us an MWE?

5:17 PM
@Johannes_B Should I ask a question? Is the syntax not obviously wrong, then?

@FaheemMitha Never used the package, and a mwe is something i can test right away. Reading documentation along makes it even faster. But just documentation and a few off your thoughts is like walking blind through a mine field.

@Johannes_B Well, I don't think TeX is as dangerous as a mine field. Ok, I'll try a separate test example.
Missing limbs due to TeX == 0

5:39 PM
@DavidCarlisle Do you allow to change your answer in "Why does \msg_fatal: show a seemingly unrelated error" by egreg? The clean code were changed by unclean code:). I personally would never allow this...

@wipet to be honest it was marginal, if it hadn't been @egreg I may have rolled it back but actually the OP in this case would probably prefer the L3 version so no harm done.

@wipet David seems to be in some fire brigade.
Oopsie he's back. :)

@Johannes_B funny, a bare bones example works. wonder what is going wrong in my actual file.
Apparently Wikipedia writers are sometimes prone to understatement. The entry on Mozar says "Mozart [...] was a prolific and influential composer of the Classical era."

@wipet The converse: changed complicated code into easier one: "if inner mode or horizontal mode, push the token after the group; otherwise do the required job”. No \expandafter sequence for removing the two \fi. You can't judge some code unclean just because you don't know the language.

6:01 PM
!!/eightball is the code complicated?
@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: no. And don't be mean to David, he is my friend.
LOL
!!/battle
@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: The current score is egreg 230 vs. 205 David. So far, egreg is winning.
!!/fortune
@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: Here is your fortune: Do not mistake temptation for opportunity.
Yay my Apple TV arrives tomorrow!

@egreg It was only little joke. But you can't assert that I don't know this unclean language. I know it but I don't like it. If I see a TeX code then my internal expand processor runs automatically in my head. But this is impossible when I reading L3.

@wipet My internal expander is still in version 0.1 alpha. :)

@Johannes_B looks like mdframed breaks this. I guess I'll post a question.

@FaheemMitha ok.

@DavidCarlisle OK, but satisfaction is here: the stick in "Is there a way to store information..." was moved from unclear code to the more clear code:)

6:17 PM
@Johannes_B posted

@wipet ooh! :)

In this case, i wouldn't use quoting at all. You don't need it. Define an mdframed-environment called quoting instead. — Johannes_B 49 secs ago
@Johannes_B I don't?

@FaheemMitha What makes you think you need it?

@Johannes_B Well, I need a quoting environment.

@FaheemMitha LaTeX has one built in.

6:23 PM
There is the intentation stuff.
@Johannes_B One what? Quoting environment?

@Werner It sounds like a reasonable approach. I'll give it a try. Do you agree with @Johannes_B that the quoting environment is not needed at all here?

@faheem LaTeX has a quatation and a quote environment. quote is defined as
\newenvironment{quote}
{\list{}{\rightmargin\leftmargin}%
\item\relax}
{\endlist}

that can be easily done as an mdframed environment.

@Johannes_B How?

6:30 PM
@Johannes_B Ok, I'll try that. @Werner I guess I'll need a skip below and a skip above? I'm not sure why you mentioned just a skipabove. Did I miss something?

@FaheemMitha Quoting also applies just one skip. the one above.
oh, wait.

@FaheemMitha I agree, since both are just lists in a modified form.

@Werner If i am not completely drunk (actually, i am sober) there is no skip at the end of the quoting env, right? At least non put by quoting directly.

@JosephWright: 93 downloads of the arara 3.0 installer since I moved the binaries to Bintray. 32 of them from Germany. :)

Yeah, lottery time! :)
4

I am organising yet another lottery and Springer have kindly agreed to donate two copies of LaTeX and Friends (see also). This year I decided to be the judge of the lottery. The lottery closes when the judge has announced the last winner. The judge's decision is final and there shall be no disc...

3

6:40 PM

@wipet Now add some code for mapping all data corresponding to a given ID, without fixing in advance what are the allowed fields. Possible, of course, but it comes for free when you store the data in a property list variable.

@Werner Thanks. Much appreciated.

@tohecz Yay!

6:56 PM
I just coompared LaTeX templates to a big prepacked bag of outdoor supplies for every occasion. I don't need the »Subways of London photo book« when tramping in vancouver.
And now, for something completely different: Weihnachtsfeier. See you guys.

Good maen

@Johannes_B Yuup.
It was tagged ... :)

@ChristianHupfer Hacking on this keyboard all day long, but not a single upvote on tex.sx :-D

@DavidCarlisle: You're an XML guru... (take that whichever way you want to).

7:03 PM
@Werner Well, i like this :-)

@Johannes_B: I have only one today... Wait a minute, I look for something ;-)

@DavidCarlisle: Do you know of any free sources I can use to convert the XML schema of SE data dump into something database-y? Like a .db or something else, readable via FoxPro or Access?

@ChristianHupfer Nah, jetzt Weihnachtsfeier der Geologen.

@PauloCereda Cool

See you guys

7:06 PM
@Johannes_B bye

@Johannes_B: You got 20 more :D Bye ... although one uses a minipage :-P
@Johannes_B: Geologie und Mineralogie sind interessant!

I see more serious problems in the preamble!
0

I have some serious issue with my table. First, I would like to know how to put N in the middle of the two rows. Right now it looks like: $^{\pm}$ Second, if I compile my document right now, it says: "Package array Error: Illegal pream-token (D): `c' used.". If I add \usepackage{dcolumn} it ...

@egreg quite:-)
@Werner no, is the format documented there (without setting up a torrent to pull the data?)

...but when I open up an XML in Access, I get absolutely nothing.
I think the problem is a little beyond the scope of just a converter, since it should open up in Access given the file type...
...I might ask on Meta Stack Exchange.

@Werner I tend to use xslt for all xml work, so given a more or less reasonable description of what's there and what access needs conversion shouldn't be hard

7:16 PM
@Werner so you would recommend using mdframed directly, and not bothering with the quoting environment?

@FaheemMitha True, but it really depends on what you want to do with quoting, right?

is there a stackexchange site for mathml questions?

@morbusg stackoverflow probably or you could just ask me here:-)

@Werner Nothing special, really.

@morbusg it's a bit low traffic (and I'm not sure who monitors it, I know that Davide and Peter on the MathJax team monitor the mathjax tag, they may watch mathml as well) stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mathml

7:31 PM
@david cool! :) I was wondering what is the correct way to do multiline aligned equations

@morbusg mtable, in some alternative universe you could use a single column mtable with malign marks but only mathplayer ever implemented that I think, but you can get reasonable layout with mtable, mathjax supports most of the ams alignments that way.

@david thanks, I figured that may be the case. I saw a indenttarget attribute on some webpage, but I guess it has no support yet.

@morbusg I think mathjax supports that but it's rather a different thing, automatic linebreaking
<!DOCTYPE html>
<title>ams</title>
<script src="http://cdn.mathjax.org/mathjax/latest/MathJax.js?config=TeX-AMS-MML_HTMLorMML"></script>
<body>

\begin{align} a&=b\\ x&=y^2 \end{align}
@morbusg with the above right menu show mathml makes
<math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" display="block">
<mtable columnalign="right left right left right left right left right left right left" rowspacing="3pt" columnspacing="0em 2em 0em 2em 0em 2em 0em 2em 0em 2em 0em">
<mtr>
<mtd>
<mi>a</mi>
</mtd>
<mtd>
<mo form="infix" lspace="mediummathspace">=</mo>
<mi>b</mi>
</mtd>
</mtr>
<mtr>
<mtd>
<mi>x</mi>
</mtd>
<mtd>
<mo form="infix" lspace="mediummathspace">=</mo>
<msup>

7:50 PM
@DavidCarlisle Nice, thanks. It's sad to see Chrome's no longer pursuing MathML support. And perhaps sadder is the reasoning behind it: code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=152430#c43

Is it needed to have % at the end of = when splitting one equation into 2 lines? For example, SW generates code where it puts % at end of each linem before breaking it to seconds line. Like this:
$$\tilde{W}(t_0,t) =% \int\limits_{t_0}^{t} \tilde{\Phi}(t_0,\tau) \tilde{B}(\tau) \tilde{B}^{T}(\tau) \tilde{\Phi}^T(t_0,\tau) d\tau\tag{2}%$$

@DavidCarlisle: on a more serious note, @Sean is planning of a Minecraft server, and now I have a proper account, so we can all play online. :)

@Nasser no

Notice the "=%" above. If I remove the "%" will that break things?

@Nasser: you don't need to escape spaces in math mode

7:52 PM
@DavidCarlisle @morbusg ok, thanks!

@Nasser it's (always) the same as asking if it is ok to put a space at that position so you don't need a % for same reason it is ok that you have several spaces before the =

Another simple question. SW adds \displaystyle\int\limits even if I am using \begin{align*}....\end{align}, which seems redundant? I removed the \displaystyle and nothing changed in the output. Here is an example from SW:

@morbusg there is a lot of back story behind that. Still expect they'll come round in the end but I've been working on that for 15 years, you need to take a long view of these things

$$\tilde{W}\left( t_{0},t\right) =% {\displaystyle\int\limits_{t_{0}}^{t}} \tilde{\Phi}\left( t,\tau\right) \tilde{B}\left( \tau\right) \tilde{B}% ^{T}\left( \tau\right) \tilde{\Phi}^{T}\left( t,\tau\right) d\tau\tag{3}%$$
Notice the {\displaystyle\int\limits_{t_{0}}^{t}}. If I change this to \int\limits_{t_{0}}^{t} it still gives the same thing

@Nasser you get better markup if you write it yourself. Have I mentioned that before?

7:56 PM
@Nasser which SW is this SW?

@tohecz sorry, scientific word software
Latex GUI, like LYX

@Nasser you should almost never need \limits or \displaystyle

@DavidCarlisle nor \tag nor \left nor \right
@Nasser obviously not quite a good one

@DavidCarlisle you sure did mention it. I am moving to that direction, but it takes time. I am used to GUI latex for long time.

@Nasser I was just going to say all those \left\right would make @egreg weep

7:59 PM
@tohecz the latex output might not be very good, but it is makes it easier to write complicated math on the screen. it is trade off. it is like writing assembler by hand, vs. using high level language to generate assembler, which will be hard to read.

@Nasser no. It's like writing SQL vs. using M\$ Access, or writing Assembler vs using some click-and-go software maker

8:14 PM
@tohecz it is of similar vintage to 2e, and actually had some interesting ideas. Not so much on generating the document instances (which as Nasser shows have all the usual traits of generated code) but on their visual style designer they had (even back in 199x) parameterised classes where almost all reasonable lengths were pulled out as parameters and there was a visual tool where you could set them by sliding things around.

8:24 PM
@tohecz: ready for Fedora 21? :)

@PauloCereda not really. I'll get it during spring I think, the risk of my laptop getting broken in the middle of moving back and forth isn't worth it :)

@tohecz :)

@tohecz Comment upvoted. :)
I already upvoted the question as soon as I saw it. :)

@PauloCereda :set mafia-mode off
anyways, luggage time
I'll be around, but busy

8:34 PM
@tohecz :) We had the same experience in the last book contest, sadly.
@tohecz good luck with stuff, Tom. :)

@PauloCereda I just don't have a scale, so I'm afraid I may have to throw away a bottle of good wine on the airport if the officer is strict.

@tohecz oh no!
Or drink it. :)

@PauloCereda one of the worst ideas you've ever had...

@PauloCereda :) Would you want to play vanilla or are you eager to try out any mods?

@SeanAllred I'm open to everything. :)
@Sean: I've seen some Youtube videos with servers featuring cool mods, but I don't know how complex they are.

8:39 PM
@PauloCereda I think it'll be vanilla for now, then :) Still waiting for a new graphics card to find its way into my budget, but that's a while out yet.

@SeanAllred Oh my, hope you get a nice one. :)

@PauloCereda The only mod I really like is a tree mod – anything that chops down the whole tree when you take out a base block

@SeanAllred aaaaaaaah Timber Mod
or Treecaptator or whatever.
I've heard good things on this mod. :)

@PauloCereda Yeah, those two :)

@SeanAllred :)

8:42 PM
@PauloCereda I might ask the folks at (or poke around) arQAde to see how the mod installation procedure differs from single-player to a server
Random fact: you can log on to arQAde with Steam. Huh.
OpenID is a wonderful thing :)

@SeanAllred That was exactly something I was gonna ask you. :) I heard that, for local mods, it's a matter of injecting the classes inside the main application. But with a server...
@SeanAllred o.O

@PauloCereda Yeah. I know that it used to be a radically different process, but I heard rumors that the team merged SSP and SMP – in other words, when you're playing single player, you're really standing up a local server and connecting to it

@SeanAllred It makes sense.

@PauloCereda I found this vvv
16

This is actually a very good question. "Note" You should have the latest version of Java installed before trying this as you need that to play minecraft. For the client version First you download and run your 'regular minecraft' at least once. This ensures that your .minecraft folder has been...

which gives instructions for both client and server – the answer was given pretty recently so I think it is accurate. I'll get back here with the results :)

@SeanAllred ooh!

8:50 PM
oh, it feels good to have a mouse again!

well, the 23kg limit will be probably quite tight

@Werner i tried using skipabove and skipbelow, but I get a space above but no space below.

9:09 PM
@Werner any idea what the problem is? It seems curious.

Have a nice time... till next time

9:42 PM
@PauloCereda @DavidCarlisle 108.51.157.201:25565 :D
Completely vanilla for now. Forge doesn't have a stable branch for 1.8 yet.
Mob griefing has been turned off

@SeanAllred @tohecz Oh dear...

@cfr vvv

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