TeX, LaTeX and Friends

12:12 AM

Is there a sty2dtx for l3doc yet? If there isn't, I may very well ask a new Q

(Which is what should be done regardless… :)…)

2

Q: Is there a `sty2dtx` for LaTeX3 syntax?

sty2dtx is a CLI tool to convert a commented style file into a Documented TeX file (dtx). It was written and works wonderfully for LaTeX2e packages, but expl3 offers a lot of happy times for package authors. Unfortunately, expl3 also brings with it some hitherto unconventional syntax, such as un...

My memory is truly awful.

cfr

1:03 AM

@JosephWright @tohecz @SeanAllred Related?

mbork

Hello everybody! Here's a question (unsuitable to TeX.SE, I guess, so I'm asking here). I'm writing (together with a colleague) an introductory book on LaTeX, aimed especially at students who are going to write their theses (math/CS) in LaTeX. Any suggestions about what to include? (We have our own list, of course, but we may have omitted something important.)

In particular: I'm thinking about a chapter on "Automation" (idea: "LaTeX does many things for you"), like the label/ref mechanism. Any other suggestions for things in this chapter? (It might have been a bad idea, since there will be separate chapter about, say, bibliographies, ToC is covered elsewhere etc. Any opinions?)

tohecz

@cfr it's possible. However, let's suppose that it can't be him :)

@mbork I'm not sure if currently more books for university students are necessary, but it's your choice. I would certainly have a look at Nicola Talbot's Using LaTeX to Write a PhD Thesis.

However, the true question is: Do I want to break my habit of always carrying a Bible while on a long journey when I certainly don't need it, or do I not?

mbork

1:45 AM

@tohecz: really? I do not know of too many good LaTeX introductory books in Polish. (Did not understand the Bible comment, though.)

tohecz

@mbork ah I see your point. Well, the question is whether it's better to make a new book, or translate some of the existing ones (most authors would give a permission for the book to be transslated). Sorry, the comment with the Bible is just me venting my travel fever, you can happily ignore it :)

mbork

I see. Well, translating is not an option - especially that an important part of the book will be "what to do to make LaTeX obey Polish typesetting traditions".

tohecz

@mbork you can always add such a chapter into a translation, but I see your point

mbork

Also, we want the book to be kind of a "LaTeX cookbook" (indeed, this is the translation of the title), centered around recipes ("howtos") and not a regular "lecture-style" thing, like the "Not So Short Introduction" and so many others.

tohecz

look at this: dickimaw-books.com/latex/thesis

mbork

1:55 AM

I know. Much too advanced. (In fact, even portions of the "novices" book of Nicola Talbot is too advanced for this project!)

Another thing is going to be that we want to include some general advice on typography.

tohecz

well, ok then. I'm just having some concerns over "using features without understanding principles" when I hear "a cookbook" :)

anyways, good luck!

mbork

Yes, you're right. This is a concern. In each "recipe" we show three things: source code, output and a (concise) explanation.

The problem with students is that they don't want to read a lot, they want the job done. And it's not entirely irrational.

So we put strong emphasis on the "concise" part.

Also, take into consideration that they are bachelor/master's level students, not very likely to use TeX after graduation, so they don't want to spend more time than necessary on it. I know this is harsh for us TeX lovers, but this is reality...

Anyway, thanks for your suggestions!

tohecz

That's why I try to put effort into teaching LaTeX and not writing books about it. In my dept, we've got a subject on it

@mbork don't underestimate TeX! I know a lot of people in industry who use LaTeX whenever they can

mbork

Then you're quite happy. I couldn't even get any funding for this book, so we do it more or less pro publico bono...

tohecz

@mbork well, opening a course on something doesn't directly cost money to the department (of course there're costs, but are "hidden"), so you can try to push this through ;)

mbork

2:04 AM

Yes, it's true, too. But the students are not aware of that. They have to write their thesis in LaTeX, they hate it (the thesis, not necessarily LaTeX), they probably want to forget the whole experience ASAP. Telling them that LaTeX might be useful for them in their professional life might result in a big ORLY?.

tohecz

Hello @PaulaBlanton! I've never seen you here before. How're you?

mbork

True. But I have so many teaching-related duties that preparing a new course now is impossible for me...

tohecz

@mbork well, you obviously have plenty time between 2 and 3 in the morning :) :p

Sean Allred

@cfr Good heavens.

mbork

Ha. I should be working now. (And I probably should get some sleep, too.) So bye for now!

tohecz

2:08 AM

@SeanAllred well, these are good heavens, compared to the afternoon case

@mbork so should I, but I can blame the travel fever :p

good night @mbork!

Sean Allred

@mbork If your focusing on Math/CS, an appendix about the language itself wouldn't be a bad idea. It was an epiphany when I discovered the lisp-ness of TeX.

( Also, good night :) )

mbork

@SeanAllred: thanks. (Though TeX is not an acceptable Lisp;-).) And our math students know (unfortunately) next to nothing about programming. This would only confuse them...

Sean Allred

@mbork It's a functional language – explain macro definitions as iterative maps

(or if there is a better analogue to recursive functions that I don't know about)

tohecz

or ask @egreg on how to explain it :)

mbork

Well, maybe - theoretically. From the practical standpoint, actual programming in TeX is a PITA. (I hear that expl3 helps a lot - I'll have to learn it some day.)

tohecz

2:14 AM

@mbork but remember that possilbly alot != enough

cfr

2:33 AM

@SeanAllred 'I want code for latex' had a depressingly familiar look... (Though I seem to have managed to miss the main events earlier...) Perhaps it is just an unfortunate turn of phrase on a coincidentally similar topic? And the tone is not... as unreasonable...

Sean Allred

2:59 AM

@cfr I think it's just an unfortunate coincidence. That phrase will be a little painful to me for a while yet

Can someone make sure I'm not going crazy? gist.github.com/c848faffde0d2d25ddef

For some reason \AtEndDocument is executing before the first page is being processed

This is my demonstration vvv

\documentclass{minimal}
\AtEndDocument{\typeout{wat}}
\begin{document}
hello, world
\end{document}

Sean Allred

3:14 AM

If I could tag it dumb-mistakes, I would. Link below in case you know what's going on -- shouldn't be answered in chat when there is a Q :P

0

Q: Why won't `\AtEndDocument` execute at the *end* of the document?

I must be doing something incredibly stupid, but I've boiled it down just as far as it can go with no luck. I'm working on a bug that's cropped up in a recent commit in pagectrl @ca7dc3. I have the following minimal example: \documentclass{minimal} \AtEndDocument{\typeout{wat}} \begin{docume...

hooks

Johannes_B

10:00 AM

latex-community.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25408

tohecz

11:13 AM

News from outside world:

Best of Aviation.se: "first in the business of making toilet seats. Switching to propellers came naturally" — rbp 12 hours ago

Sean Allred

2:29 PM

So much for that question of mine being buried… yoikes

How can I tell if I've found an l3kernel bug?

Christian Hupfer

2

First snow in my home region

Sean Allred

@ChristianHupfer My, that's pretty

Johannes_B

@ChristianHupfer Snowing here as well, but just a little bit.

Christian Hupfer

@SeanAllred: Thanks...

Sean Allred

@ChristianHupfer It's very flat where I live now – I really miss the mountains

Christian Hupfer

2:34 PM

@Johannes_B: Well, yesterday morning was some more snow even down in the valley where I live, but on top of the mountains, there is about 10 cm (not much, right now, but more will come)

Johannes_B

@ChristianHupfer As long as it does not rain, i am happy.

Christian Hupfer

@SeanAllred: You used to live in a mountain region?

Sean Allred

@ChristianHupfer Maryland backs right into the Appalachian Mountains

Christian Hupfer

@SeanAllred... Appachalians ... that could be about 6000 feet in altitude, right?

Sean Allred

@ChristianHupfer Mount Mitchell is a little under 7000 ft / a little over 2km

@ChristianHupfer To be fair though, the highest point in Maryland is only a little over 3000 ft

Hoye-Crest

Hoye-Crest is a summit along Backbone Mountain just inside of Garrett County, Maryland. It is the highest natural point in Maryland at an elevation of 3,360 feet (1,020 m). The location, named for Captain Charles Hoye, founder of the Garrett County Historical Society, has a marker and offers a view of the North Branch Potomac River valley to the east. The location is accessible via a path leading from U.S. Route 219 to the west. == Accessing Hoye-Crest == There is no direct road access to Hoye-Crest. The best route is a hike in from a point along U.S. Route 219 just south of Silver Lake, ...

Christian Hupfer

2:40 PM

@SeanAllred: Well, 7000 ft is alot more than about the 1.2 km of the mountains in the back of my photograph

Sean Allred

@ChristianHupfer Very true :) I've never seen the 7000 ft one though – that's way down in Mississippi… there's so much of my country that I just haven't seen :(

I've heard the Rocky Mountains are something to behold

Christian Hupfer

@SeanAllred: I have not seen already a lot of our small Germany here ... no wonder that somebody has not seen a lot of the USA ;-)

Joseph Wright

@SeanAllred E-mail me :-)

Sean Allred

@JosephWright Too late tex.stackexchange.com/questions/216346/…

But I can email you as well if you'd like to have it on file there :)

@ChristianHupfer That makes me feel a lot better :)

Johannes_B

@JosephWright »Yes the achemso style is required. Unless it is possible to obtain a similar format using biblatex.

Authors, Title, Journal name in italic, Year in bold, Volume in italic, pages.«

Joseph Wright

2:46 PM

@Johannes_B Huh?

Johannes_B

@JosephWright latex-community.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25383

Joseph Wright

@Johannes_B There is a biblatex ACS style

Johannes_B

@JosephWright I know, and i noticed that it differs from the OPs description.

Joseph Wright

@Johannes_B Article title varies between their journals

Johannes_B

@JosephWright If he wonders why it looks different with chem-acs he should load the achemso bibstyle.

Joseph Wright

2:48 PM

@Johannes_B They should be the same other than biblatex versus classic BibTeX requirements for the database

@Johannes_B I write both ;-)

Johannes_B

@JosephWright »The author of achemso is also the maintainer of biblatex-chem, providing a style chem-acs, which covers most of American Chemistry Society Journals.« :-p

Joseph Wright

@Johannes_B The achemso package is mainly aimed at using the achemso style, so I'd just not use it for the biblatex case

Johannes_B

@JosephWright Right, the OP wanted to have chapterbibs with achemso, i suggested to use biblatex with refsections and chem-acs.