TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2013-01-23 (page 2 of 2)

6:01 PM

@JosephWright Right, but that's not advice I'd give to someone so clueless, and having your own version of a major package like beamer is just asking for trouble down the line.

I'm wondering whether someone with MikTeX 2.8 can just update packages to their latest versions (something you can't do with e.g. TL 2010 or 2011).

Rico

are you guys still discussing the grandmaprotection? :D

LordStryker

@Rico Grandmas dont need protection... we need protection from them.

@Rico Them cookies... thats all it takes... a fresh batch of cookies!

Rico

@LordStryker @LordStryker need cookies like everything does! <Matrix quote waiting to be starred>

ok its not actually a quote :D bit it refers to it :D

LordStryker

@Rico good enough for government work ;)

Rico

@LordStryker I don't know your grandma but she seems to be a really creepy old lady if you need to protect yourself ^^

LordStryker

6:08 PM

@Rico That little lady can out-run, out-dance, out-stay-awake, out-do me in almost everything imaginble (she's late 70s, she's really only limited by her routines)

Rico

@LordStryker good for her, bad for you :D

LordStryker

Now I want some darn cookies... grumble grumble

Rico

6:35 PM

@LordStryker :D :D

Rico

6:52 PM

404 user not found :D

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico 404 Bielefeld not found

7

Rico

@StefanKottwitz someone had to say it :D :D

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico Is there an english file about that conspiracy?

Rico

@StefanKottwitz not sure, let me have a look

Alan Munn

Bielefeld Conspiracy

The Bielefeld Conspiracy is a running gag among German Internet users, especially in the German Usenet. It is generally considered a satirical story rather than a hoax or an urban legend. Synopsis The story goes that the city of Bielefeld (population of 323,076 as of 2011) in the German state of North Rhine-Westphalia does not actually exist. Rather, its existence is merely propagated by an entity known only as SIE (in this context THEY or THEM, not the polite form of YOU), which has conspired with authorities to create the illusion of the city’s existence. The theory posits three quest...

3

Andrew Stacey

6:57 PM

@PauloCereda I have CapsLock rebound to Ctrl so that wouldn't work for me.

Paulo Cereda

awww <3

Rico

@AndrewStacey sun keyboard?

Andrew Stacey

@Rico xmodmap

@AlanMunn I've been to Bielefeld.

Stefan Kottwitz

@AlanMunn I know, Wikipedia agents persist in saying it's a gag, a satirical story. I mean the real X files ...

Alan Munn

@StefanKottwitz Ok. I'm sure the truth is out there. :)

Paulo Cereda

6:59 PM

@AlanMunn: the Brazilian version of Bielefeld would be Acre. :)

LordStryker

@AndrewStacey Stop propagating your conspiracies and lies!

Rico

@AndrewStacey its a nice city =)

LordStryker

You too @Rico!

Alan Munn

@PauloCereda So says Wikipedia. I think it's Analândia.

LordStryker

!!/eightball Does Bielefeld, Germany really exist?

Rico

7:00 PM

@LordStryker I live there ^^

Paulo Cereda

@LordStryker Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ

@AlanMunn Nah, we have at least one important celebrity born in here. :)

LordStryker

Rick Roll'd again... >:(

@StefanKottwitz Because it does not exist ! :)

Rico

this video is locked by GEMA -.-

Alan Munn

@PauloCereda But maybe you're a bot.

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn I'm not talking about me. :P

Stefan Kottwitz

7:01 PM

@LordStryker Bielefeld cannot be rick roll'd. Thanks to GEMA.

Rico

►

Looks like Psmith is the unknown brother of Anna :D

LordStryker

@Psmith is a troll. I like it.

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn: Her. :)

And I know her. :)

Rico

@PauloCereda who is she?

Paulo Cereda

@Rico Some hot chick that was a VJ in the Brazilian MTV.

LordStryker

7:04 PM

Anyone know Dillie the deer?

Stefan Kottwitz

Oh, grandma is currently the hottest question on the SE network

stackexchange.com/questions

LordStryker

@StefanKottwitz Bravo. Well played.

Rico

@StefanKottwitz I thinking about buying your book ;)

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico Why not, it has a great cover :-D

Rico

@StefanKottwitz cover?

LordStryker

7:10 PM

I Googled grandma latex tex and guess what came up at the top?

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico That's what my grandma said (really) because of the photo on the cover page

LordStryker

Seems to be like there is an under-represented market here...

Rico

@StefanKottwitz :D :D I already have LaTeX - Das Praxisbuch do you think its useful to have both?

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico My book is in English, if this would mean a difference

Rico

@StefanKottwitz would be the difference but not a problem ;)

Stefan Kottwitz

7:15 PM

@Rico If you have read a book, no matter if it's better or not, you don't need to read a beginner's guide again, so you don't need it

Joseph Wright

Anyone got Herbert's books?

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico Perhaps read the first pages at Amazon as addition :-)

Rico

@StefanKottwitz thank you for this hones advice.

Stefan Kottwitz

@JosephWright I've got some of Herberts

Joseph Wright

@StefanKottwitz I keep meaning to add them to my bookshelf: I assume they are pretty good

Stefan Kottwitz

7:17 PM

@JosephWright At the DANTE 2012 conference he offered me a book for a copy of mine, so I got the PSTricks book (good deal ;-)

Rico

@StefanKottwitz I would really like to learn something about macros and "highlevel"-LaTeX Stuff. Is there any book you could suggest?

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright If I could read German. :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico It depends on the meaning of high level. If it would mean high abstraction level, it would be a LaTeX book, if it would mean high understanding level, it would be a TeX book

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda I was thinking of the English translations :-)

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright ooh. :)

Rico

7:20 PM

@StefanKottwitz i was thinking about all those makeatletter hacks

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico This means probably TeX, so I would recommend the TeXbook as a nice reading and TeX by Topic, which is also great

both are freely available

Paulo Cereda

@Rico It's not a hack, you are simply entering in another scope. :)

Stefan Kottwitz

but you can buy both as real books

Rico

@PauloCereda at my level of knowledge everything higher than searching and using packages is hacking ^^

LordStryker

I concur with @Rico

All of you are a bunch of hackers!

3

Rico

7:24 PM

amazon.de/Computers-Typesetting-Volume-Texbook-TEXbook/dp/…

@StefanKottwitz this one?

Joseph Wright

@StefanKottwitz The source for The TeXbook is freely available: you can't typeset it!

Paulo Cereda

!!/eightball Are we hacker?

@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: it is decidedly so.

Stefan Kottwitz

ctan.org/pkg/texbook

Paulo Cereda

!!/eightball Is The TeXbook fun?

@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: concentrate and ask again.

!!/eightball Is the TeXbook fun?

@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: let's wait for David to finish xor first.

@JosephWright: ^^ It might take a while. :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico Yes (look at the used ones to get it cheaper)

Rico

7:27 PM

@StefanKottwitz would buy a used one anyway ^^

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico Such hacking may look difficult, but once you have some knowledge, you could make most yourself: locate the piece in the source, know how to redefine (often a small change) - but it involves @ things, strange looking internal code which is just copied ;-)

Rico

@StefanKottwitz with a little help of @PauloCereda I tried this: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/94100/…

Torbjørn T.

@Rico TeX by Topic, that Stefan mentioned, is included in TeX Live, so you can access it by texdoc texbytopic.

Rico

@TorbjørnT. thank you, is there any way to look it up with miktex? I could switch to TeXLive though...

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico I see! That's the straightforward way, copy and modify. Shorter hacks can be done by patchcmd and similar from etoolbox, just patching a small piece of a long macro

Rico

7:32 PM

amazon.de/LaTeX-Hacks-Techniken-professionellen-Textsatz/dp/…

anyone knows this book?

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico I have it, read it some years ago, hardly remember (it's in my other residence so I cannot take it for a brief look for remembering)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Could you take a look at tex.stackexchange.com/questions/95059? This is a bug, or at least a slightly-risky assumption, in graphics!

Torbjørn T.

@Rico Same should work with MikTeX, if it's installed of course. If you have W7 you can just type texdoc <packagename> in the search field in the start menu. If you have an older version, then perhaps you have to open a command prompt.

Rico

@StefanKottwitz if i got this right patchcmd/xpatch does the same thing like copy&modify but much shorter

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico texdoc.net/pkg/texbytopic

Rico

7:36 PM

@TorbjørnT. nice!!!!

@StefanKottwitz wow this is a lot to read :D

Torbjørn T.

@Rico MikTeX also has mthelp which does the same as texdoc (the latter may be an alias of the former, I don't know).

Rico

@TorbjørnT. I've got MikTeX 2.9

Torbjørn T.

@Rico I meant older version of Windows.

Rico

@TorbjørnT. Oh, got it =)

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico I got a MiKTeX shock today, with google trends:

LordStryker

7:42 PM

@StefanKottwitz Linux :)

Rico

@StefanKottwitz wow Oo what about TeXlive? should be the other way round

LordStryker

Oh wow, 'Linux' has a similar decay!

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico Also going down since 2008, at much a lower volume

Rico

@StefanKottwitz this would mean that LaTeX would also go down

Torbjørn T.

@Rico google.com/trends/explore#q=tex%20live%2C%20miktex&cmpt=q

LordStryker

7:46 PM

@TorbjørnT. google.com/trends/…

@TorbjørnT. Even better --> google.com/trends/…

Torbjørn T.

@LordStryker Indeed better.

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico I think it does, we just need to ensure that we don't see the fetish trend ;-) such as:

Rico

@StefanKottwitz thats the problem im trying to solve right now :D

Stefan Kottwitz

Vel, who made the LaTeX templates site, showed this graph to me today, that's why I came to this

Rico

here is another free latex book =) dickimaw-books.com/latex/novices/novices-report.pdf

LordStryker

7:51 PM

@Rico I clicked that after reading 'fetish' and I was disappoint :(

Rico

@LordStryker The only fetish we are talking about is use of good typographie

Stefan Kottwitz

Some hope, online compilers could help to change the trend - you know, LaTeX on tablets or smart phones, LaTeX without any installation barrier

LordStryker

Interestingly, both queries have the same interest spike in Oct. 2012 --> google.com/trends/explore#q=LaTeX%2C%20TeX&cmpt=q

Oh yeah, check out the 'Related Terms'... Also, Germany has the highest 'Latex' interest while the US has the highest 'TeX'

Rico

@StefanKottwitz since I'm a Spandex.io fanboy I definitely hope so!

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico What are the benefits of Spandex.io?

Rico

7:56 PM

@StefanKottwitz real livecollaboration with up to 10 people at the same time, versioncontrol, dropbox integration, versionsnapshots, onthefly compilation

Paulo Cereda

Would -1 if I could. This is both funny and accurate, but uses a lot of computer specific terms. OP asked specifically for an explanation for someone who is computer illiterate. — evilcandybag 35 mins ago

Don't you guys love the kind of people we are attracting here? :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@Rico why this name?

Rico

@StefanKottwitz spandex? i dont know :D i will ask josh later and tell you ;)

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz don't google image spandex, please.

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda consequence of popularity

LordStryker

7:59 PM

@PauloCereda +1 :)

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz Yep. :) The commenter might have a point, but the price for simplicity is inaccuracy. I once told a friend about TeX and friends, and said typography; he didn't know that word. We are all illiterate in at least something and trying to explain something that requires a minimum background is hard. :) At least I made a pie analogy, and even there you can claim there's a lot of people pie-illiterate. :)

LordStryker

@DavidCarlisle @PauloCereda ^A hot 'vim trick'

Rico

8:17 PM

Brace Yourself, with my bachelorthesis many new questions will come!

LordStryker

@Rico Bring it on!

Rico

8:32 PM

"! LaTeX Error: Command \textcurrency unavailable in encoding T1."

any ideas?

percusse

@Rico You have a poor computer

LordStryker

@Rico Try \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}

Rico

@LordStryker T1 does not work \usepackage[utf8x]{inputenc} did the trick

LordStryker

@Rico then its \usepackage[UTF-8]{inputenc}

Rico

@LordStryker =)

LordStryker

8:34 PM

@Rico Google :) But I learned something

Rico

@LordStryker thinking ... try it, it saves lives ;)

LordStryker

@Rico Thinking properly requires prereqs that I do not have :) therefore I Google (or come here)

Rico

=)

percusse

keh keh keh

@PeterGrill Just for you a kerning game :-)

type.method.ac

9

LordStryker

I love having large LaTeX documents that compile without a hitch

Rico

8:46 PM

@LordStryker chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/7738443#7738443

LordStryker

@Rico exactly!

@percusse I did it!

Rico

@LordStryker whats this?

LordStryker

@Rico percusse linked to a kerning game

percusse

@LordStryker Nice!

LordStryker

@percusse These aren't easy

Rico

8:48 PM

@LordStryker link?

percusse

@LordStryker There is your answer to the grandma question :)

LordStryker

@Rico type.method.ac

@percusse :) I should have jumped in while it was new. I need some points.

percusse

@LordStryker No worries TeX.SE is known for fast rep charge.

LordStryker

@percusse My final score was 76/100 :)

Rico

@LordStryker wow this is hard

percusse

8:51 PM

@LordStryker Wow, you can now make Comic Sans look like Garamond.

Rico

did anyone already saw this:

LordStryker

@Rico see what?

Rico

LordStryker

@Rico Ah yes. Its a great marketing tactic IMO

Rico

@LordStryker hard punishment ^^

LordStryker

8:56 PM

@Rico I'd pay up in a heartbeat to get rid of Comic Sans... almost out of impulse

Hi @DavidCarlisle!

David Carlisle

@LordStryker Hi my router is having an up time of around a minute, so I may not be here long:-)

percusse

9:13 PM

@DavidCarlisle There is a review about your grandma answer. Could you please check it out?

Silex

@LordStryker 88/100 :P

LordStryker

@Silex Nice! My kerning abilities are as good as my Parkour abilities. :)

egreg

@AndrewStacey I too have been to Bielefeld. But some notable points should be remarked. (1) I changed train in Hannover and in the ICE to Bielefeld I was the only one in the coach; nobody came to see my ticket. (2) When I left the place, on the train coach where my booked place was there was no other passenger. (3) I met prof. Ringel at the University, but of course he was part of the conspiracy. ;-)

3

Rico

@egreg you should mention that the university is a spaceship

egreg

@Rico It reminds one, that's true.

@Rico So are you part of the conspiracy?

!!/eightball Is Bielefeld a conspiracy?

Paulo Cereda

9:30 PM

@egreg Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: only egreg knows the answer.

egreg

@PauloCereda The bot is part of it, undoubtedly

bloodworks

!!/eightball does bielefeld exist

Paulo Cereda

@bloodworks Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: how about reading source2e?

Rico

why are the colors this strange?

percusse

@egreg Search for TU Delft Aula

:)

Rico

9:32 PM

looks like the fileupload dont like me today ^^

here are 2 pictures of the university: a) as a spaceship asta-bielefeld.de/CMS/fileadmin/user_upload/34/weitere_Themen/…

b) a oceancruiser asta-bielefeld.de/CMS/fileadmin/user_upload/34/weitere_Themen/…

David Carlisle

@percusse yes I had a notification but I couldn't see the suggested change?

percusse

@DavidCarlisle I think it's a hotlink on the image now.

@Rico The top part or the bottom part?

Rico

@percusse which one?

percusse

@Rico You can hover over the comments to see the linked ones.

Paulo Cereda

@LordStryker woohoo!

Rico

9:37 PM

@percusse the top part of course :D

David Carlisle

@percusse Ah I see it now thanks, it's been rejected which is Ok by me.

Stefan Kottwitz

9:57 PM

Does anybody want to comment to the discussion here? I did. news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5104762

It's good to keep talking about TeX and LaTeX outside.

percusse

10:11 PM

Any ideas on what to use after exhausting sub subsub section commands? I still can't believe I have nested this much.

I mean aesthetically...

Rico

@percusse does it need a number?

percusse

@Rico No not really

Rico

@percusse not sure but wouldn't paragraph be the next lower level?

mafp

@percusse paragraph?

percusse

@Rico @mafp Technically yes but it doesn't look that good compared to the previous structure.

Rico

10:14 PM

@percusse picture please =)

mafp

@percusse You mean the output?

egreg

@percusse Don't nest too much. However, as @Rico says, after \subsubsection you can use \paragraph and \subparagraph. Five levels under \chapter should be more than sufficient. Or look for an answer of mine where I provide 100 levels. :)

Rico

@egreg I remember one of my professors saying if you need way more than 3 levels you did something wrong while structuring the document

percusse

@egreg I really don't know how I managed to nest this much but seems like it's the only way.

Nevermind the boldness.

egreg

@Rico I saw a document with 14 numbered levels.

percusse

10:18 PM

The last one is the paragraph

But it needs some make-up.

Rico

@egreg seriously? who can actually read this

mafp

@percusse I propose small caps

egreg

@Rico Nobody, of course. It was some technical specification of I don't remember what.

Rico

@percusse maybe you could use the description environment ;)

@egreg you could look it up, I'm pretty sure it was section 2.3.2.5.11.43.1.43.32.a

tohecz

@percusse there are some good ideas here: description environment / enumerate with bold titles. Small caps sound good too, or uppercase with even smaller size (variant: normal size, lowercase, smallcaps)

percusse

10:21 PM

@Rico @mafp MAybe a new environment with small caps might be good

@tohecz Spot on.

tohecz

@percusse "spot on"?

percusse

@tohecz Bulls-eye?

tohecz

@percusse not better ... :-/

Rico

@percusse why smallcaps? this would look kinda wierd

percusse

@tohecz i.e. you are right

tohecz

10:24 PM

@percusse ok, this one I got ;)

percusse

@Rico Small caps go well with the other structural titles and they look really small in this font so they don't feel like caps at all.

Back to my @-populated .sty jungle. It's becoming scary over there :) Thanks all.

Peter Grill

@percusse Thanks. Thats is all I need: Another thing to use for procrastination. :-) Surprisingly I got 100% only on the very same thing that bothered me "Abscese":

percusse

@PeterGrill Well, well. Somebody is not that ignorant about kerning as he claims to be.

Peter Grill

@percusse I did pretty bad on everything else though..

tohecz

@PeterGrill I got a hundred 3 times, but the all-over score 86 is not satisfactory.

Peter Grill

10:29 PM

@tohecz Oh I did not not get an overall score. I guess that was 4th one that came up.. Let me see what happens...

tohecz

@PeterGrill oh ok, then you'll make more 100's, the latter ones were easier I'd say

Peter Grill

@tohecz Nahh only got 67%

tohecz

@PeterGrill try again :p

Peter Grill

@tohecz Nah gott get back to work. Just read @PauloCereda's awseome gradma answer...

tohecz

@PeterGrill :)

egreg

10:37 PM

@JosephWright Regexes rule. :)

David Carlisle

Where's @PauloCereda when we need him? I was going to refer the OP to Psmith. tex.stackexchange.com/questions/95072/…

mafp

@DavidCarlisle Fantastic answer, thanks.

David Carlisle

@mafp It might even work with a bit of luck:-)

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Setting all fonts to \nullfont except in the argument of \dontignore. :P

David Carlisle

@egreg \frac

egreg

10:52 PM

@DavidCarlisle You're too picky. :)

Rico

is it just me or are 40% off all new questions reposts?

Speravir

11:09 PM

@AlanMunn As long as a MiKTeX version is supported all avaialble packages can be updated – the same package resource is used mirror.ctan.org/systems/win32/miktex/tm/packages Also MiKTeX internals are distributed as packages, the only difference is, that MiKTeX 2.8 does of course only download the ones with 2.8 in the name and vice versa. BTW for MT 2.8 the end of support time is near: MiKTeX Releases, but oops, also for 2.9 it is not long anymore …

Werner

11:34 PM

@percusse What interface are you using to obtain the output in that image?

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$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends