Vedanta and Philosophy - 2017-03-10 (page 2 of 3)

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8:01 AM

@sree

This was followed in some states like Bengal and adjacent states. So, Raja Rammohan Roy had demanded the abolition of this system through his organisation Brahmo samaj. Sati was not prevalent in Souothern states. THere were other evils like child marriages etc., @Jeyanthinath

I too had that sense of Idea, It was there but it was not enforced

@SwiftPushkar Me too.

But why in puranas , they allowed to die along with that husband , why people didn't said this is stupid ?

* her

@Jeyanthinath its a practice originated by male chauvinistic people not sanctioned by vedas

8:03 AM

@SreeCharan - What vegetable sabji is your fav.? What u people generally include in meals , I think mostly rice , am i correct , whr abt .u

@SwiftPushkar भोजनं चेशारा, भोजनं तिन्नारा - Did you have lunch? Did you eat lunch?. These are two ways to ask and reply is चेशानु, तिन्नानु - I ate. (In telugu).

@SwiftPushkar நான் இன்னும் சாப்பிடவில்லை (Not yet had my lunch) - In Tamil ;)

@Jeyanthinath - Yes ,SB is talking abt sati , Skanda 9 chapter 6,shloka 55 , but read carefully ,its not entering into flames litrally ,but uniting with husband by own wish into him ,by his Tapas , or spiritual power

O Mahārāja Parīkṣit, by observing their husband progressing in spiritual existence, Saubhari Muni’s wives were also able to enter the spiritual world by his spiritual power, just as the flames of a fire cease when the fire is extinguished.

@SwiftPushkar Yes. Mostly rice. Lunch is incomplete without rice. but these days, rotis are also made part in meals. My favourites are Alu and dal. Dal recipe for punjabi and dal in south India are different.

user image

8:11 AM

@Jeyanthinath Sati was voluntary in olden times. During Islamic invasions, women used to do Sati to escape rapes. But this was later made as custom. But some people, cite Manusmriti to support it. But Parashara Smriti is recommended for Kali Yuga not Manu Smriti. So, Sati is not recommended for Kali Yuga.

@Jeyanthinath - vedabase.com/en/sb/9/6/55

if vedas dont have thing such as sati then we should not consider smritis

@TheDestroyer Does Manu Smriti talk about Sati?..

@RakeshJoshi Vedas are like Blue prints. They don't contain all things.

@TheDestroyer they contain many things about women and their rights.. and even shrauta, grihya are devoid of this

8:13 AM

@Tezz I think yes. I heard it from Swami Govindanda in some discussions.

if you keep on telling kali... kali... @TheDestroyer then it would mean that vedas are not applicable for kali

@RakeshJoshi Time Specific things are not mentioned in Vedas. Vedas mentions truths of all times.

why should women's status should change as per yuga in hinduism ?@TheDestroyer

@Jeyanthinath - Hiii , ok , I am from Maharashtra , so i can't read or write Tamil ,but surley i will try to learn as i am earger to learn some other languages , thanks 😊👍👍💐 "Vannakam"

@RakeshJoshi Lol. Vedas are applied for all times. They are eternal.

8:14 AM

then please dont say "this is not for kali" when vedas have declared it

@RakeshJoshi Let's forget women status. Why traditions are changing with time?

@TheDestroyer what tradtions

@RakeshJoshi Now even women are working. Social customs and traditions.

@RakeshJoshi Do Vedas mention women can work?

talk about religion and related not social.

@TheDestroyer vedas say women should learn vedas .. does chaganti rao accept it ?

@RakeshJoshi Why do you separate religion and social? religion is foreign term. "Dharma" is original word.

8:16 AM

@SreeCharan - ok , we here also eat Dal ,but not of punjabi style ,we have our own style of preparing that , and Roti ,sabji is main dieat here ,Rice and dal also part ,but is not main , I like mix-veg sabji with paneer 😊👍👍

@TheDestroyer See the question below

0

Q: how to fulfill a vow?

What to do when a vow has been broken by a person? scripture vishnu-purana What to do when vow has been broken by a person? Can any prayaschit is there What are the Prayaschitta measures for breaking a vow??? Here Here the vow maker taken aperson(who took the vow) took it without knowing anything...

He/she is asking the same question again.

@RakeshJoshi I don't about Chaganti garu. But Woman are allowed to read Vedas. All those who try to get esoteric meaning of Vedas are allowed.

@RakeshJoshi - Sati tradition ,stated after muslim invesion and their mis-deeds , but that was optionl in earlier times

@SreeCharan Is this Guy crazy?

@TheDestroyer not only reading , learning, reciting , etc all

8:19 AM

@RakeshJoshi Brahmavadinis recite Veda mantras.

@TheDestroyer - haha 😀😀 voted to close 👍👍

@SwiftPushkar why not men give up their lives with wife after her death?

@TheDestroyer though they are allowed to read, but presently no gurukul allows them to learn ... except arya samaj..

how come these so called changes happened ? certainly by male chauvinistic people

@RakeshJoshi Do you know how Rama suffered when Sita left her body?

@TheDestroyer did rama ask seeta to give agni pariksha?

@RakeshJoshi You can start the change.

8:22 AM

@TheDestroyer i have already started and inspired few non brahmins towards vedas.

i know a mandali here which performs upanayana for non brahmins

@RakeshJoshi - Its a kind of spiritaul union with husband after completion of all the responsibilities and continuing spiritual journey wirh him , that concept is pretty much different than sati pratha we know tiday 😊

@RakeshJoshi But beware of those real Sudras (who pretend to learn vedas to uphold their non Hindu faiths).

@TheDestroyer vedas cant be learned for time pass... no one will put such efforts

@RakeshJoshi Do you know a Sudra named Zakir Naik?

yes i know .. he is a scholar.

8:25 AM

@TheDestroyer - 😀😀😀😀😀👏👏👏

of comparative religious studies.

@RakeshJoshi Scholar? what scholar? with hidden intention of demeaning Hindu Gods and islamization of Vedas?

he knows his stuff... he uses interpolated hindu texts and highlights the loopholes

12

A: Why did Lord Rama ask mother Sita for Agni Pariksha?

In this chapter of the Yuddha Kanda of the Ramayana, Rama explains why he made Sita walk through fire, despite having complete trust in her: Seetha certainly deserves this pure factory ordeal in the eyes of the people in as much as this blessed woman had resided for a long time indeed in the ...

This answers your question.

he has debated with sri sri ravisankar and defeated him

one he threw manu smriti on face of an aggressive hindu monks

8:28 AM

@RakeshJoshi lol. Do you have that Video?

@TheDestroyer if seeta has to give agni pariksha then rama also has to give na? he also lived for long away from seeta...

@RakeshJoshi I am enough to defeat him. Did he take any debates with Shankaracharyas?

further why did rama abandon his wife in the jungles @TheDestroyer when she was pregnant !

@RakeshJoshi Do you know how blatantly he misinterprets verses?

@RakeshJoshi First of all, we are talking about Treta Yuga. Rules are different for that Yuga. We must understand from that Yuga perspective.

@RakeshJoshi Why Rama didn't use any tricks but Krishna used many tricks? Both are Vishnu only.

@RakeshJoshi - Rama already gave agni pariksha ,he travelled to lanka ,he cried , even gods acknowledged his ek-patni vrata towards sita , he was desperately eager to meet her.

8:32 AM

@SwiftPushkar crying is not agni pariksha

@TheDestroyer which rules says that you have to abandon your pregnant wife?

@SwiftPushkar the pariksha was to make sure that the spouse did not make any illegal relations in absence of partner.

@RakeshJoshi You can read Ramayana completely to know nature of Rama. He truly deserved the title "Maryada Purushottama".

@RakeshJoshi - Ek patni vrata , not even thinking abt.someone else from mind. ,Seeta was of same nature 😊

@SwiftPushkar then agni pariksha and abandoning in forest does not make sense ! what fault was of seeta that she had to go to forest after pregnancy?

was it her fault that rama took 12-13 years to rescue her ?

@Rickross any sanskrit text with name"upanishad" need not be a part of shruti . eg. shailopanishad, allopanishad, etc

similarly any sanskrit text with ishwara parvati samvada may not be a genuine tantra.

mahanirvana , meru tantra etc are highly interpolated scriptures.

@RakeshJoshi How many years did Rama take to rescue Sita as per you?

@Seeker The best Sanskrit-Bengali book to buy will be this one..But i myself have a different one which is just Sanskrit texts with bengali translations..it does not have commentaries and other relevant discussions..And in english i think u can buy the one which is translated by Arthur Avalon..That is the recommended one..

8:38 AM

@RakeshJoshi - see Rama was king , his People were like his children ,he was responsible to answer them , people were talking abt.the incident , so he as a king to give answer and to prove the point to the people he arranged agni pariksha ,he was just ruler , that was the custom of that time , But he himself was aware abt.her purity.😊

@RakeshJoshi And he suffered a lot after separation with his wife and he even went to vaikunta to see Sita.

8

Q: What scriptures describe the story of Rama visiting Vishnu in Vaikuntha?

Most people only know of occasions in which two different incarnations of Vishnu met, for instance the encounter between Rama and Parashurama in the Ramayana. What is not as well known, however, is that Vishnu's incarnation Krishna (along with Arjuna) once met Vishnu himself, as I discuss in thi...

mythology vishnu ramayana puranas padma-purana

@TheDestroyer rama suffered then seeta also suffered. but suffering is not criteria

@RakeshJoshi then what is criteria?

@SwiftPushkar so he was a good king that is ok but it raises questions if he was a good husband or not...

cos i will not abandon or test my wife if someone speaks ill about her

@RakeshJoshi which one to choose? Dharma of King or Dharma of husband?

when they conflcit?

Especially in treta Yuga.

8:44 AM

@TheDestroyer see he should not take a ramdon persons word seriously... his wife is his personal matter nothing to be done with ruling or kingdom

@Rickross mahanirvana is interpolated.

@RakeshJoshi your opinion or backed by Dharma Sastras?

@TheDestroyer which dharma says to abandon wife for such silly reason ?

@TheDestroyer if someone speaks bad aboyt his mother of father then he will abandom them too?

@SreeCharan Which other people ? If they feel that way they can verily say that..i wud not mind..and do u even know that user Krishna? He was especially bad-mouthed..I think everyone who had read his posts will confirm..also i don't argue without scriptures backing me up..Take for eg the recent argument that i had with u-U said that Puranas are also Smritis ..Which i easily refuted using Scriptures..

@RakeshJoshi Not silly reason. There are many things behind the scenes. It was curse to Sita Dev. if you wonder how she can be cursed. it is leela of Vishnu and Lakshmi.

who cursed ?

8:49 AM

parrot cursed Sita Devi.

let me find story.

curse has become a joke now

3

A: Why did Lord Rama ask for the second Pariksha?

For your first question: Why did Rama exile Sita? The general reason is that in Rama Rajya, Ram used to provide everything to his people what they wanted. So he exiled Sita for the sake of people. But every general seeing thing have some deep mystic connection to something. Similar is the ...

@Rickross What is the literal definition for smriti?

@RakeshJoshi your personal opinion doesn't matter before acts of Lord.

what if i curse you all now ?

what was the background of the person giving the curse ?

8:52 AM

@RakeshJoshi Are you worth enough? I mean do you have virtues? But please don't curse me.

@RakeshJoshi This was divine plan of Vishnu.

@SreeCharan Also i don't consider any scriptures as sectarian..If i am quoting from Shaiva agamas and u from Vaishnava Agamas then both of them are equally valid means of knowledge and i don't have any objections but if u are quoting from blogs which interpreting Scriptures(like the Vedas) in a sectarian way then i have definite problems..I don't quote interprettion of Scriptures by XYZ person but i directly quote from them..

@Rickross Well you didn't say exactly how they are handed to us.

what was the qualification of the parrot @TheDestroyer

You think you refuted me. But I don' think. I want an authentic and non-contradictory answer which says how puranas are handed to us.

@RakeshJoshi i don't know their previous births.

8:54 AM

:) @TheDestroyer

i dont want to insult ramayana characters by making them so weak any they get affected by curses of any random beings

@SreeCharan Well i provided two Scriptures which say Smritis and Puranas are different ..If that is not proof enough then i don't what is ..

@RakeshJoshi In this birth, reason looks weak. But who knows if we know many births, argument may be strong. We just don't know.

@Rickross :)

@SreeCharan SMriti-which has been remembered Or which has to be remembered..all Shastras are handed down to us by oral tradition

@RakeshJoshi - Absolutely he was good husband , he searched het and brought her back with full respect , sita is always shown standing or sitting next to Rama , bur ...his first duty was to answer what his citizen's questions , as i told u earlier , so he proved himself in both of these cases.

8:57 AM

@TheDestroyer people then did not have any horns on their head..

@SwiftPushkar ek baar answer kar diya tha citizen ko phir kya baar baar?

ab citizen decide karenge ki raja kis se shadi karega aur kiske sath rahega?

did dasharatha consult citizens before marrying 4 women ?

@Rickross I know they are passed down by oral tradition. My question is how were they revealed to mankind? They are remembered by Maharshis and are narrations. So isn't that a smriti> They are remembered by maharshis using their Tri kala gnanam.

@RakeshJoshi not 4 thousands. It was allowed.

@RakeshJoshi - I think that was for children oe may be for son , but not sure though , i will read abt that 😊

@SreeCharan @SreeCharan Well i provided two Scriptures which say Smritis and Puranas are different ..If that is not proof enough for u then i don't know what is ..BTw do u know of any Scriptures which explicitly say Puranas are Smritis?Wiki is not enough..That answer u linked only contains WIki as reference..

@SreeCharan even Vedas are remembered..So what difference does that make?

@RakeshJoshi Every Yuga has their own Yuga Dharma. Don't simply apply rules of one Yuga to other or not apply our reasons (of Kali) to age of Treta.

9:03 AM

@Rickross If puranas are remembered like vedas, then why aren't they Puranas called Shrutis.

@Rickross Calling a person bad mouthed or speaking bad about a person who is not in forum is not good. It is general etiquette. Can you point some posts of his?

@TheDestroyer @Tezz - do you know the story where kartikeya asks abt.meaning of OM to Brahma & then tells that to Shiva , but asks shiva to accept him as his guru.

@SreeCharan You are deviating from the topic..Ur point is Puranas are Smritis ; they are one and the same..i used Devi Bhagavatam and Vyasa Smriti to prove u wrong..Now its ur turn to prove me wrong by quoting from Scriptures..

@SreeCharan Calling him bad-mouthed isn't a bad thing..He was like that only ,very rude with his words..He has personally attacked me without reasons many times..Ask any active users like @TheDestroyer or @Tezz or any others..They can confirm..I don't have time or interest to search for his posts

@Rickross I am neither deviating nor debating with you. I am asking why aren't the puranas called smritis if they are remembered? Hope you understand my question.

Where is @Pandya - Pandya ji kaha kho gaye hai app , bhulok me to hai na 😊 ya kisi aue lok ki safar kar rahe hai 😀

@SreeCharan Because they were first heard..

9:10 AM

@Rickross So puranas and smritis are one and the same? Or they are different? You said both the statements.

@Rickross Matsya Purana says Brahma remembered puranas. "Prathamam Brahmanam Smrutam"..

indianscriptures.com/Content/Articles/PDFs/23267/…

@TheDestroyer no point of hiding behind the veil of yuga dharma

@SreeCharan Puranas and Smritis are different from what i have seen..The Scriptures always mention them differently when mentioning them together..

@TheDestroyer - पुराणं सर्वशास्त्रांणाम प्रथमा ब्रह्मणा स्मृतं 👍👍😊 Matsya purana

@SwiftPushkar I think you have many such statements.

@RakeshJoshi Sastras are beyond our rational thinking.

and Rama far beyond.

9:15 AM

@TheDestroyer 😊😊 i will give you more interesting statements than my previous once 👍

@TheDestroyer then how do you declare some portion of so called interplation? from reasoning only na ? :P

@RakeshJoshi but same reasoning is not always working.

@RakeshJoshi :)

blind beleif is also not good.

@RakeshJoshi Prejudice without knowing the meaning is also not good.

9:17 AM

@RakeshJoshi Not blind belief. logic of background stories of previous births.

stories can be made later not a big deal

@TheDestroyer - एष साधारण: पंथा: साक्षात कैवल्यसिद्धीद: - Puranas is way for everybody to achieve Moksha.

@TheDestroyer - खगोलमयं भूगोलं लोकवृत्तमं यथातथम् ।

@RakeshJoshi how can you say interpolation? How can we put our rational thinking to decide authenticity of stories?

"An apartment is not a thing that protects a woman, nor robes, nor compound-walls, nor concealments nor such royal honours. Her character is her shield." - Rama regarding women. @RakeshJoshi

Doubting virtue of Rama is not what we should do.

@SreeCharan @TheDestroyer there are heavy interpolation in both mbh and ramayana

some believe that whole of uttara khanda is added later

9:23 AM

@RakeshJoshi None were able to prove it strongly. we can call them claims. Even so called historians who try to find interpolations have wierd theories such as two Krishna theory.

@RakeshJoshi We should also note what is their perspective? Atheistic? Or left? or some other?

@TheDestroyer SRIMAD ANANDA TEERTHA - TATPARYA NIRNAYA :)

@RakeshJoshi Yes. Many claim there are interpolations but couldn't prove. But some of them can be clearly identified like "Ravana throwing Sita into river"

And keeping locked in a box as a baby.

@SreeCharan Does Uttara Kanda really contain that box story... ?..

@SreeCharan is that story of Sita as daughter of Ravana?

@Tezz I haven't read the uttarakanda as it is highly speculated. sv says so.

@TheDestroyer Yes. sv. said that it is present in uttara kanda.

9:28 AM

@SreeCharan He is reading books of foreign authors who didn't even practice Hinduism. How can they decide objectively? But i'm not sure if Uttara Khanda has really that story?

@TheDestroyer - खगोलमयं भूगोलं लोकवृत्तमं यथातथम्।
पुराणम साधु विज्ञाय वेदार्थ ज्ञातुमर्हति ॥

Topics of puranas - Aakhyanas ,Upa-Aakhyanas (stories & sub stories which were heard) , astronomy ,geography, spicial sciences , Vedartha(meaning of vedas) ,Achara vichar (behavioral social science)

@SreeCharan @Rickross i heard pancharatra mantras has beejas like that of the tantra . like kleem, shrem, hreem etc

how it can be from vedic shakha

10:12 AM

@SwiftPushkar I am now moving to Maharatstra next month :)

@SwiftPushkar If you want to learn Tamil , I can help you out personally :)

@Tezz @TheDestroyer @Pandya @SwiftPushkar @KeshavSrinivasan @AnkitSharma I have questions for all of you. Is it recommended that talking about a person negatively who has left the site? Is it supported saying a person bad mouthed? Isn't that etiquette that it should not be talked about a person who is no longer in a site? Is calling a person bad mouthed supported?

@Rickross thanks.

@SreeCharan If you think someone was wrong soemhow and not even here anymore then what is the profit in talking about him/her behind his/her back?

Better to skip it

@Jeyanthinath - oh , ok 👍👍😊

@SreeCharan Even i think it is useless to discuss about someone who left this site.

10:27 AM

@AnkitSharma I am talking back of anyone. I feel talking about some user that he was bad when he is not in site is not good.

@SreeCharan - i also think that it's not good to talk or to express negative opinions about a person who is no longer active here , everybody's angle towards the universe is different , so what is true for one person may be false for another , And most of all this is Religious/spiritual site , i think we over here must follow the strict rules while chatting /questiining /answering , otherwise we will disrespect what is written in scriptures and ultimately teaching's of Hinduism😊👍👍

Even whether user Krishna was respectful or not, that's altogether different matter.

Aug 10 '16 at 14:44, by Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Yeah, I really wish the user Krishna showed more respect.

Yeah i even that user used bad words or did something wrong , we should forget that ...I wull give you one example pls.see it quick i will delete that

@SwiftPushkar What?

:35944736 why did you give that?

10:39 AM

@TheDestroyer He gave nothing important.

@SreeCharan i think he sent wrong image.

@TheDestroyer Yeah.

@TheDestroyer - that was the example how some people behave here , that is the worst case of hatred , my point is in such cases also we shouldn't have to use bad words towards the person who did even such things

@SreeCharan We can frame rules for this room, as these kind of things shouldn't be repeated. We can frame them.

@TheDestroyer That was my intention too. That's why I posted this message.

10:44 AM

@SreeCharan Ok. btw, rules should be in accordance with free speech and dignity. Too much of free speech or too much of restrictions is not good.

we need an arbiter system for certain discussions in the room as well - for contentious issues - in case mod is not available to help at that time

@TheDestroyer - yeah , too much free-speech is not good 👍👍

like if the discussion is such that people have opposing view points, they can agree to elect a mod for that discussion and if that mod consents they should obey the rules of Tarka Sastra in law and spirit and proceed to debate

and mod will adjudicate

@TheDestroyer Present method should be followed just with some guidelines while discussing about different faiths and philosophies. There should be strict rules while commenting on others personal views.

@SreeCharan Precisely - loose cannon talking is certainly unhelpful and selective amnesia is a big problem

10:48 AM

@SreeCharan Also, friendly critisicm or facts/words from certain books shouldn't be considered as offensive.

@TheDestroyer Yes.

@TheDestroyer - hmm that is also very very imp point , we shouldn't misinterpret words or saying unnecessarily

@SreeCharan whom are you referring to? What do you mean by talking negatively?

@Pandya Name is not important now. You can know if you scroll up and watch today's and yesterday's messages.

@SreeCharan ok. Btw, I'm not getting what you're talking about?

10:58 AM

@Pandya Past is past. My intention is it shouldn't be continued in future.

11:15 AM

@SreeCharan LOL

@KeshavSrinivasan @Tezz @TheDestroyer @Pandya @SreeCharan @AnkitSharma - What you people think about making it mandatory to cite sources in questions also or the source (any but of genuine nature) e.g. book , lacture's etc.

@SwiftPushkar its not that everyone is familiar about scriptures. people also have heard stories of MBH or VR which they want to clarify

11:34 AM

@RakeshJoshi - yes , right but the sources should not necessarily from scriptures only , but ftom where one came to know about that thing ,so I said any but of genuine nature 😊 I think many graduated sites impose such a rule

why to see other sites

@SreeCharan Yes, you're right.

@RakeshJoshi - because we have to make our guidelines ,we should refer what others are doing ,their policies that would be helpful , afterall SE is a network

:(

@SwiftPushkar I don't think it is good idea as we shouldn't stop users asking questions if they don't know (or read) scriptures.

11:45 AM

@Pandya - yes , i know that thing but my point is user at least should mention the source (any even wiki) from where he came to know abt.the question , one can also say like I was reading one article (link) , or according to popular belief or tradition (source) etc. that could be blogs ,youtube or books (name of the book) etc.

ok ,we will discuss abt.that in the evening , 😊 for now will take u r leave 👍👍

@SwiftPushkar Yes, some users do mention such things but we can't force questioners to include it

12:09 PM

@SwiftPushkar source in question O.o

nooooooooo

1 hour later…

1:40 PM

@SreeCharan Who the hell doubted VIRTUE of Maryadapurushottama??

1 hour later…

2:46 PM

@Rickross It is clear now from observing your general patterns of chat in this room why you insulted so casually the Bhagavat Sastra.

3:14 PM

@SwiftPushkar No. If we implement that, users can't even ask questions.

@TheDestroyer What is your opinion on guidelines for reasonable and meaningful debate in the chat room?

There is a rampant problem of false equivalency in the chat room. This has to be the biggest elephant in the room, as mod i ask you to weigh in on this for the good health of the community if that is so desirable.

@anuvaramban who decides the problem of false equivalency?

@TheDestroyer good question, that's why we need guidelines

@TheDestroyer I suggest that anyone willing to debate someone can issue open challenge and if that person should choose to accept, they both need to agree on a moderator for that debate - this person will decide the nature of false equivalency and other fallacy.

@anuvaramban Right now, we have many problems on meta to revise rules. So, i think i can't involve in rules for chat rooms now.

We can frame them when rules for scriptures or site rules are finalized. Just my opinion.

@TheDestroyer Why ask the question then? why not say this response in the beginning only when i suggested the existence of false equivalency problem

3:24 PM

@TheDestroyer @anuvaramban we can implement nyaya shastra rules @KeshavSrinivasan

@TheDestroyer If you have specific issue with my suggestion we can always discuss but don't say you are busy! As mod it is necessary you do this before the health of the chat room is irrevocably affected.

@anuvaramban You talked about false equivalency problem. But my doubt is who can objectively decide that this room has that problem?

@TheDestroyer please reread my suggestion - since both parties agree on a user as particular mod for that debate, they cannot reject that person's decision if and when one party of the debate so choose to claim that other is engaging in false equivalency etc,.

@TheDestroyer This will eliminate all claims of bias and i'm sure you know how important that is!

@anuvaramban It's hard to get presence of Mod everytime a debate takes place. Also, there are many friendly discusiions happened in this room and many users even had debates but none arised this problem of apologizing.

@TheDestroyer please read again - this is not saying only site moderators can be debate mods - if the two parties agree that say @ChinmayaB is mod, then he is mod for that debate alone. If another debate happens then the parties to that debate have to agree on a user to be mod

and so on

3:29 PM

@anuvaramban users never cared about language till now. But don't know now it went till stage of apologizing. You can check previous debates.

@anuvaramban Propose rules and ask suggestions of users.

@TheDestroyer Why are you contextualising my suggestion? I mean this as a general good measure somehow you believe it has ulterior motive. this the exact reason we need these rules sir!

@anuvaramban How it can have ulterior move? But was saying users were tolerant enough previously. Propose rules. btw, did you read Nyaya Sutras of Gotama?

@TheDestroyer @Tezz @Seeker @SreeCharan @KeshavSrinivasan @ChinmayaB @ChinmaySarupria @SwiftPushkar please weigh in on the proposal immediately above on civilising debate in chat room by requiring parties to debate choosing at the beginning a user mod for that particular discussion so that bias claims don't mire the discussion since both parties agreed that this user will act as final adjudicator of claims of such things as bias, false equivalency etc,.

@TheDestroyer this will solve problems for the future and make this place more valuable as well for inter-philosophical dialogue. And i have not read it why?

@anuvaramban anyone who knows nyayashastra should be priority for debate mod (eg keshava and he should be neutral per say)

@ChinmayaB what if other debate party then claims he is biased? it should be a consensual choice of the parties to the debate each time

Keshav Srinivasan

3:47 PM

@anuvaramban I think this is all silly. Everyone should just talk politely with each other. And if you see a chat message that's disrespectful, flag it.

@KeshavSrinivasan I wish this were the practical state of affairs.

@KeshavSrinivasan what if mod has bias that they are not even aware of?

@KeshavSrinivasan i mean the HSE mod not the debate mod

Keshav Srinivasan

@ChinmayaB Yeah, I've read parts of Gautama's Nyaya Sutras. But we can't really have ancient Indian-style debates in this chat room, because I'm the only one with a familiarity with the Gautama Nyaya Sutras. For an ancient Indian-style debate to work, all participants would need to be familiar with it.

@anuvaramban What you assume need not be true.

Keshav Srinivasan

@anuvaramban If a chat message is flagged, it can be looked at by mods from all Stackexchange sites, not just Hinduism mods.

@anuvaramban I condemned Rickross claim of laughable.

But you twist his words and say he insulted Bhagavata Dharma.

3:52 PM

@TheDestroyer need not - yes but never true? i don't think so

Keshav Srinivasan

@anuvaramban For the most part this chat room and the other Hinduism Stackexchange chat rooms have been a place for polite, civil discussion. So there's no problem to solve.

@anuvaramban You can search my discussions with other users on site decide my neutrality. but given you remove prejudice on me.

@TheDestroyer this is not about you, this is a general rule i feel is needed to be codified to enable more meaningful discussion

@KeshavSrinivasan So you believe rickross was not being insulting?

Keshav Srinivasan

@anuvaramban We've had plenty of meaningful discussion in this chat room.

@KeshavSrinivasan And we can have even more if this norm is accepted!

Keshav Srinivasan

3:57 PM

@anuvaramban When did I say anything about Rickross being insulting or not being insulting? I don't know whether he has or he hasn't. Either way don't respond to disrespect with disrespect. If you see something disrespectful or offensive, flag it.

@anuvaramban Well, we've had no problems with having meaningful discussion here, so there's no problem to solve.

@KeshavSrinivasan This is a free pass you are giving to trolling tendency. However, I will defer to this since you guys seem to know what you are saying. Let's revisit then when the next time this kind of offending happens.

Keshav Srinivasan

@anuvaramban I'm not giving anyone a free pass, everyone should be respectful.

4:11 PM

@KeshavSrinivasan Poison can be removed by poison, not by applying bandages

Keshav Srinivasan

@ChinmayaB An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

@KeshavSrinivasan I am not demanding eye its justice and equal respect for acharyas that we want people like stuff from shaiva shakta agamas and hate or LAUGH at pancharatra

Keshav Srinivasan

@ChinmayaB Like I said, if you see something disrespectful or offensive, flag it.

4:28 PM

@anuvaramban then why do say I'm not neutral? Because i didn't support all your words.

@ChinmayaB We have to differentiate criticizing of philosophy of acharya and personal attacks.

Later part can never be allowed. But there are also instances of acharyas resorting to personal attacks

4:43 PM

@TheDestroyer what up

5:00 PM

@RakeshJoshi Brahman

come on..

@RakeshJoshi what?

@ChinmayaB Rickross didn't laugh at Pancharatra Agamas. He said claims of all Agamas being Sruti is laughable. he didn't laught at any Agamas.

I also want to know how come beejas of agama find its place in the vedas ?

5

Q: If a brahmin has qualities of sudra should he be prohibited from duties of a brahmin?

EXPLANATION : A brahmin is considered to be of Purity(Sattva guna) and Sudra of Impurity(Tamas guna). Both Brahmin and Sudra position are given to a person who is Born in that varnas(Brahmin Varna , Sudra Varna) and also with Qualities(Sattva Guna , Tamas Guna) according to it . A Person can b...

scripture tradition brahmins gunas

@Seeker - From which scripture you are quoting these shlokas?

books.google.co.in/…

@SwiftPushkar

5:13 PM

@Seeker - Then provide the link in your answer

It is an episode of Mahabharata actually.

Okay.

@TheDestroyer I'm sorry but i'm not gonna take your bait.

@anuvaramban you should use proper words before you teach others or judge others.

@anuvaramban what is the bait?

@Seeker i think Yaksha Prasna.

@TheDestroyer but same doesn't apply about insulting others right?

Yes @TheDestroyer Yaksha Prashna, events of Mahabharata

5:20 PM

@anuvaramban It looks like you lack understanding. Prejudices won't help you. I made my stance clear. Where did i insult? and whom did i insult?

@anuvaramban You feel others can't understand. I can easily differentiate a spiritual and non spiritual person by their words.

@TheDestroyer Did i say you insulted? I merely stated that you are not concerned when people don't use proper words to disagree and instead end up insulting. And look what you've done here again - you are insulting my character not my actions, it is you who are enraptured in your belaboured maya.

@TheDestroyer good, i hope you get a mirror first then

@anuvaramban Using words such as "bait" shows what? Mocking with words such as "merely" shows what?

@TheDestroyer I'm not your english teacher.

@anuvaramban That's what i say. You have prejudice on Rickross and you believe he insulted Pancharatra. In reality, he talked about claims. And you expect me to censure him for insulting "whole" Pancharatra Agamas.

@anuvaramban Explain me then what do those words mean?

@TheDestroyer please go back and read the original argument from the beginning, then read it again in case you don't understand still. i was asking apology for his laughter reaction regarding the claim of descent from Vedic Saktha of the Pancaratra agamas

5:28 PM

@anuvaramban See, now you talk about claim. But in between you mentioned Whole pancharatra Agaams.

And you blame me saying i have bias.

@TheDestroyer Prove this statement if you want response, i don't care for such allegations otherwise. Also, i didn't say you have bias always, i said in this particular issue after numerous comments by me to you to recognise false equivalency you still clung to wordplay without even realising, that's when i said you are not even aware that you are biased.

@anuvaramban Show me false equivalency and enlighten me.

@TheDestroyer Ugh, like i said, if you wanna pursue this further go and read. I have done enough pointing out, it is like you listened to Ramayana and at the end are asking if Sita is Ravana's Daughter!

@anuvaramban who decides about making moderator panel here?

@RakeshJoshi context?

5:35 PM

just want to know how are moderators selected ..

@RakeshJoshi for my proposed debate rules on the chat room?

@anuvaramban Come one! Simply using some jargon doesn't resolve anything. You should be able to explain it. Else, i consider it as escaping.

no generally ...

@RakeshJoshi SE staff selects for beta site and after graduation community can elect.

@TheDestroyer as long as you can sleep at night, consider it whatever you want it to be.

5:37 PM

@anuvaramban ok. got it.

no need to discuss further.

@ChinmayaB - kai re , kasa aahes .😊

@SwiftPushkar Bas thik aahe

Tumhi sanga mandali

@RakeshJoshi may i know why you are interested in Parashara mother?

@ChinmayaB - kahi nahi yaar , doka dukhayala laglay hya vad vivad ne 😀

related to caste/varna

5:41 PM

Do you want to know only from MhB or any Purana ok?

@Seeker btw what other examples do Vishwaswara Tantra gives in gross subtle manifestation concept... ?..

@TheDestroyer if not given in MBH then puranas too ok

@RakeshJoshi ok.

@RakeshJoshi btw, Reva khanda of Skanda Purana mentions Satyanarayana, besides bhavishya Purana.

Last 5 chapters in kolkata Manuscripts.

@TheDestroyer it should be uniform in all editions na

@RakeshJoshi This is famous temple in Andhra for Satyanarayana.

annavaramdevasthanam.nic.in/A.htm

Annavaram.

5:47 PM

yes you are sensitive about this deity i know :)

@SwiftPushkar Ha vivad garje cha aahe amhchya prana priya deva sarkhe bhagwad ramanujacharya an pancharatra tradition war insult zhali aahe kali bawalt loka naahi samjat

Legend says Satya Deva appeared long ago. So, Satyanarayana is not created by any people. He is just a form of Vishnu.

@RakeshJoshi Not sensitive. But i feel there is no need to create a new diety.

@TheDestroyer do not believe legends dear. use mind as well.

@Tezz Don't know. I simply read in commentary. Actually, An image must have the subject. An image can't exist without subject. I will give you exact verses when will have.

@ChinmayaB - Ho barobar aahe 👍👍👍 mi kadhich asa farak kela nahi , mi sarvana accept karto 😉

5:48 PM

@SwiftPushkar Oh ok..😊😊

@RakeshJoshi In Andhra, every couple who marry will visit Annavaram or at least they perform Satyanarayana Vrata. He is famous since many centuries.

then is he parial about andhra only ?

why no ancient temples in other states.

@SwiftPushkar mi accept nahi karat pan mi apman hi nahi karat btw Adi shankrachrya karta kup respect aahe malaa

its just many of andhra people more vulnerable ..

@RakeshJoshi How? You can't neglect Sthala Purana of temple.

5:51 PM

i can also make a sthala purana what big deal?

90% of the residents of the place dont know sanskrit

@RakeshJoshi btw, there are many Khandas of Skanda Purana which are not translated into English. Who knows they might mention him.

@ChinmayaB - hmm , mala he konacha apman karna barobar watat nahi re👍 and your views are very nice 💐👏👏👏

@RakeshJoshi How is that related? Priests of temple are preserving Sthala Purana.

@TheDestroyer they want to run business na

It is said that one Brahmin of the village by name Earanki prakasam got a dream wherein lord appeared and told him that his vigraha was left abondened on the hill without worship and they shall trace it and reconsecrate it. That Brahmin informed the said fact to Sri Raja I.V.Ramarayanam,the then Zamindar of Gorasa of kirlampudi estate, and both of them along with other villagers traced the idol on the hill, worshipped it and installed it. at the present spot on Sravana Suddha Vidiya of the Telugu year Khara (i.e.) 1891 A.D (Fasli 1301).

@RakeshJoshi Do you think the dream was just coincidence?

5:56 PM

@TheDestroyer so god will say to people ... i m here come and start worshiping me ?

@Tezz - BTW , have you read my Comment question abt.kartikeya story , i came to know abt that story From this Video -youtu.be/TlKBlhmkZsE

@RakeshJoshi then who else will solve their problems which are beyond their intelligence?

the brahmin wanted to be popular and wanted to somethoing new

so he first made an idol ...

dig a hole in the forest/hill and buried it .

after a few days made a story about his dream of god.

why would he do such things ?

1. he will gain great name... he will be considered a pious soul that god appeared to no one else but only him.

2. he will have good amount of control over the temple . If brahmin then he will be most propably offered the priesthood and this will continue for generations

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