Vedanta and Philosophy

6:00 PM

@RakeshJoshi you forgot one thing. He (papi as per you) also did Prana Pratishta and Lord came into it and showing his grace till now but Lord is not Swayambhu?

Rakesh Joshi

if its a swayambhu then where is the question of prana pratistha?

The Destroyer

No. As per you, Brahmin made an idol. So, i am saying you missed prana pratishta ritual.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer every temple they are doing pratistha .. what big deal in it ?

or it could be a scenario ...

he found the ancient idol somewhere and he burried to another location and then guided fellow villagers to it

this is case for 90% of such stories

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi But why Lord is showing his grace if a Brahmin (who wants fame) did Prana Pratishta?

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer how did he show his grace ? did he do aakasha vaani or sent him a certificate?

The Destroyer

6:04 PM

@RakeshJoshi Why people are going there ? Some take vows and vows are giving fruits.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer people are going for praying god not for the brahmin...

SwiftPushkar

Hey all 😴🙆 GN ,TC BYE 👍

Rakesh Joshi

if i construct a temple and people start coming in then how will it prove that i have got gods grace?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Your purpose is different and the Brahmin in your story is different.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan I had read in one of your question but don't remember now. Let me know among the various types of Mukti viz. Saarupya, Salokya, Samipya etc. Which one is the the Sri Vaishnava believe highest?

Rakesh Joshi

6:06 PM

@TheDestroyer how did god did grace on brahmin ? i m not able to understand?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi In original Sthala Purana?

Rakesh Joshi

any.. i just want to understand what is the logic.

The Destroyer

may be many janmas phala.

Rakesh Joshi

what is the proof if he was blessed by god ?

now many new temples are built ... people donate lacs or crores.. but many of them have gained the money by wrong means ... does this mean they are noble souls because they contributed in temple construction?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Sthala Purana. If you don't believe in it, you can come to Andhra, i will take you that temple. You ask temple management for required Scriptural evidence.

Pandya

6:08 PM

@KeshavSrinivasan Btw, how about enabling quicker notification at Preferences?

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer that is what i m saying .. the whole legend , story aka sthala purana was made by brahmin to uphold his views.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Do you know what Venkateswara said to Lakshmi Devi before convering to idol?

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer i m yet waiting for the proof that tirumala hills is not part of earth !!!

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Only Venkatachala, though other hills are also Adisesha and Parvata Muni.

Rakesh Joshi

in few years you will come across scriptres which will be foretelling about avatara of datta like sai , satya sai , etc

already many have been declared so far.

The Destroyer

6:11 PM

@RakeshJoshi I don't think so. This is not Hindu India. People are loosing interest in Hinduism and religion. No one has time or knows Sanskrit to interpolate.

Rakesh Joshi

not joking .. many recent saints have been made as avatar

already sahasranama are composed and specific gayatri also

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Sayujya is the highest. It involves equality of experience with Brahman.

@Pandya Equality of experience is spoken of at the end of the Brahma Sutras. Vyasa says that liberated souls have all powers that Brahman has except for the powers of creation, preservation, and destruction. And he says that when liberated souls are spoken of as being equal to Brahman, that is only referring to equality of experience, not equality of powers.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Lakshmi Devi asks Srinivasa to give back loan of Kubera as She is Lakshmi. But Srinivasa says in kali Yuga, people willingly perform Sins and he wanted to save them from those sins. So, he decides to stay there. Venkateswara says those who comes to his temple with pure heart and who gives money to him reach Venkateswara and those corrupted people who donate lakhs of money reach for welfare works such as Annadanam. etc.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer if indeed one has pure heart then whats the need of giving money

The Destroyer

So, Temple sole purpose is not for money. Lord takes care of it properly.

Rakesh Joshi

6:17 PM

@TheDestroyer you are literally taiking priest's story as gods own words.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Chaganti garu said this in Pravachanam. I don't think Chaganti garu creates a story.

Rakesh Joshi

he is an upanyasakara not logician ...

if priests are noble then why not majority of them attain liberation...

in all well known saints hardly there are any priests.

they are close to god but yet too far...

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi How can you say that? we don't know what happens after they leave their body.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan ok. I'll refer it. Thanks

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer same way how we know stories about other prists.

The Destroyer

6:20 PM

@RakeshJoshi I think we are deviating. So, what is your opinion about Satyanarayana. Do you accept him as Ancient diety considering Sthala purana of Annavaram.

Rakesh Joshi

no sthalapuranas are not authentic texts

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Then what scriptures you want?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya You can start with this section of Adi Shankaracharya's Brahma Sutra Bhashya and go forward: sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe38/sbe38333.htm

Rakesh Joshi

why would lord say someone ... come here and start my idol worship ? @TheDestroyer

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi You should read puranas to understand such stories. I can't say.

Rakesh Joshi

6:22 PM

in main puranas itself there is good amount of interpolation

what to talk about sthala puranas

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Ok. we are coming to square one. So, tell me what scriptures you accept in your question.

Rakesh Joshi

so you think that every word of scriptures is true ?

i believe in logic more

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi then why did you ask question if you don't believe in Scriptures?

@RakeshJoshi There is also logic in Puranas. Logic is not difficult thing.

Rakesh Joshi

i also have given by logic to you\

if i m on the way to andhra and i find some old temple in a broken state and find some idol there
then i come back to chennai

and say that i had dream and there is idol at xyz place

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya By the way, the powers of liberated souls is actually a subject where Thenkalais and Vadakalais disagree, see my question here:

3

Q: Do Thenkalai Sri Vaishnavas believe that liberated souls have powers of creation?

The members of the Sri Vaishnava sect of Hinduism, especially the Iyengars (Sri Vaishnavas who are Brahmanas), are divided into two sub-sects, Thenkalais and Vadakalais. These sub-sects both agree on the Visishtadvaita philosophy of Ramanujacharya that characterizes the Sri Vaishnava belief syste...

The Destroyer

6:27 PM

@RakeshJoshi Ok. At least you are accepting there is idol. Swayambhu idol. Right?

Rakesh Joshi

its ur belief .. uinderstand that its not the rock that works but ur prayer or ur luck works

u can pick any stone and do prathistha in it

one cant claim that a small linga of my house is inferior to vishwanath linga

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Ok. I will post answer to that question and concludes he is ancient deity. it's your wish if you agree or not.

Rakesh Joshi

:)

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi I think there is another old question. I think it's better if i answer that question.

Rakesh Joshi

ok

i have posted a new question.. do have a look if you have any clue

The Destroyer

6:31 PM

@RakeshJoshi which question?

Rakesh Joshi

it will be there in newest

The Destroyer

I saw. Sri Rangam?

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer yes

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Whom did they mummify?

Rakesh Joshi

Ramanuja !!!

The Destroyer

6:33 PM

ohh. i didn't know.

@RakeshJoshi I think you missed it in body.

of question.

Rakesh Joshi

but some people say its a replica which could be true also

thanks i have edited

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Is this true?

Rakesh Joshi

he himself posted a pic of that

in one of his answers

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi ok.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Yes, Ramanujacharya's body is preserved in Sri Rangam. I've seen it, you can still see the nails growing.

The Destroyer

6:42 PM

@KeshavSrinivasan OMG.

Is he alive?

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer You can see a picture of it in my answer here:

4

A: How much does the divinely created statue of Ramanujacharya resemble him?

They're pretty close. They have the same long low-hanging ears, round face, and thick fingers. Here is the statue found in the Bhavishyadacharya statue in Alwar Thirunagari: And here is the actual body of Ramanujacharya preserved in the Udayavar Sannidhi in Sri Rangam: Note that the statue...

The Destroyer

I am starting to believe he is really Adishesha.

@KeshavSrinivasan Is 2nd picture real body?

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Yeah, it is.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan How it is preserved?

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer many people (including me) think that it could be a replica

The Destroyer

6:48 PM

@RakeshJoshi You are skeptical of everything.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer i think not any temples have done such thing before... i doubt if its allowed

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer They apply some substances to it twice a year, I don't remember what substances.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan ohh.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer though if you wish to see it .. i can accompany you to srirangam :D

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi I will defintely visit one day.

Rakesh Joshi

6:50 PM

aunah ?

it has multiple pilgrim sites...

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Here's another picture of it:

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi But not with you. You may spoil my spiritual tour with you scepticism :P

Rakesh Joshi

jambukeshwara jala tatva lingam ..

akhilandeshwari temple .

only temple of Kaveri (lopamudra) is here (as far as i know)

uchipilayar ganesha temple (famous)

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan What is Ramanuja's height?

Rakesh Joshi

@KeshavSrinivasan is it true that Ramanuja was first student of advaita acharya?

The Destroyer

6:53 PM

@RakeshJoshi Yeah. I know.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer I'm not really sure.

Rakesh Joshi

yadava prakash?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi I have friends from Trichi.

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Yes, Ramanujacharya was originally a shishya of Yadava Prakasha.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan How can many days we can preserve dead body as per science?

Rakesh Joshi

6:54 PM

@TheDestroyer because great people like sri madhwa, ramanuja etc started using their mind and started being "skeptical" about the theories which were traditionally taught to them (sankara vedanta)

this is why they are known and venerated today. so being skeptical is essential for spiritual progress.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Logic alone won't take you to Paramatma.

Rakesh Joshi

but its one ofessential things ... god has given you own mind and vieveka what for?

its not true that logicians cant be saints.

@KeshavSrinivasan what do VA people think about acintya bheda-abheda doctrine?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Who said i don't use logic. I understand Purana with logic. Stories which people generally think conflicting are very clear. We need to study deeply to understand essence properly.

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi They had a falling out because Yadava Prakasha was teaching Adi Shankaracharya's Chandogya Upanishad Bhashya, and there is one Chandogya Upanishad verse which Adi Shankaracharya interpreted as saying that the supreme lord's eyes are the color of a monkey's butt.

Rakesh Joshi

so i m just citing that being skeptical not bad ... already we saw many great men in history .. i m also having that quality.. so does it hint at my futuere? @TheDestroyer

Keshav Srinivasan

6:58 PM

@RakeshJoshi "When Ramanujacharya heard that, he immediately started to cry, and he said, "How can you compare Sriman Narayana's eyes to a monkey's butt? That Chandogya Upanishad verse is actually comparing his eyes to a lotus flower kissed by the sun, not a monkey's butt." That is what started the animosity between Yadava Prakasha and Ramanujacharya.

Rakesh Joshi

@KeshavSrinivasan yes in a day or two i will post about this analogy of monkeys back or red lotus flower

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Even i am not against Logic. But Lord is beyond logic.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer yes u can also go beyond logic in samadhi

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi with expanding consciousness. You should say that.

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Yadava Prakasha got angry that his shishya was challenging him, and he ordered his other shishyas to kill Ramanujacharya. Thankfully Ramanujacharya escaped. Then he heard the Stotra Ratna, which is a poem by the Sri Vaishnava Acharya in praise of Vishnu. He was so inspired by the poem that he immediately wanted to become a Sri Vaishnava.

Rakesh Joshi

7:00 PM

??

The Destroyer

All Vedas are verifiable in state of Transcendental consciousness with "logic".

Rakesh Joshi

@KeshavSrinivasan @TheDestroyer similarly is the story of madhwa.. he had controversy with his guru whole learning first mangalacharana of brahma sutra itself

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan kill? Really?

@KeshavSrinivasan it looks like Yajnavalkya's case is better. haha.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Yeah. By the way, ultimately Yadava Prakasha became Ramanujacharya's Shishya.

@TheDestroyer In fact Yadava Praksasha went on to write the Yati Dharma Samucchaya, which is the manual for how Sri Vaishnava Sanyasis should live their lives.

@TheDestroyer That manual is still followed by Sri Vaishnavas today.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan How can a Guru ask his Shishyas to kill? That too a person who knew veda.

Keshav Srinivasan

7:05 PM

@TheDestroyer He was just in a really angry state, he wasn't thinking clearly.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer might be because advaitin thought killing ramanuja's body is no sin

atma imperishable :)

Keshav Srinivasan

By the way, here is the relevant portion of Adi Shankaracharya's Chandogya Upanishad Bhashya:

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Then he might have not understood Advaita Properly. Only after realization, maya disappears. All laws of nature are applicable to anyone who is not realized. How can knowing concept alone make someone realized.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer obviously he was realized

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi How can you say that?

Jeevan mukta?

Rakesh Joshi

7:08 PM

how can u say he was not enlgithed

guru must be brahma-nishtha shrotriya na ? as per advaita

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi I can't say anything now without reading complete story. but i think he was not realized completely. He might have known concepts.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer when sankara did something like parakaya pravesha and bad beed then u said its not body

when yadava prakash did u say he is not good

why this kolaveri ?

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi He was definitely not realized, because he ultimately came to the conclusion that his own beliefs were wrong and he switched to Ramanujacharya's Visistadvaita beliefs.

Rakesh Joshi

he was realized as per what advaita thinks realization is ..

then he went ahead to realize another level what is realization as per VA

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi If he was realized as per Advaita, why did he change his philosophy?

Rakesh Joshi

7:12 PM

cos he felt that something "special" beyond his realization..

i think krishna chaityanya was madhwa pupill.. later realzed some new concept

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Shankara thing is complex. Only Adi Shankara truly knows whether he was realized or not. If he was realized or Shiva in human form, no sins. Else, we should think of Sins. Again, we can't decide as we were not there with Shankara.

Rakesh Joshi

its clear no realized soul could commitsuch wrong act.. anway you can continue to overlook it

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Yes, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was originally a shishya of Ishwarapuri, who was a follower of Madhvacharya. Then he decided to found his own sect.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Not overlooking. Different possibilities. if Shiva went behind mohini, why not Shiva as Shnakra can do that? Who knows he could be Shiva . It depends on person's perspective.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer did shiva did against the wish of mohini?

The Destroyer

7:18 PM

@RakeshJoshi I think different puranas mention differently. Not sure.

@RakeshJoshi Even Shiva saw Parvati with bad thoughts when Kama attacked with arrow. Thereafter, he opens 3rd eye and burned him.

Rakesh Joshi

@TheDestroyer the story is vice versa it was mohini who tried to seduce ... and it was mutual

in this case it was done under disguise and was bad..

so not good to bring gods to justify scholars

seeing parvati with such eyes is not wrong . after all if not husband then who else will see ?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi This argument fails, if Shankara is Shiva.

Rakesh Joshi

how ?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi How can God get sins?

Rakesh Joshi

ur giving example of story of mohini which was not forced or cheating

your point is god cant incur sin

my argument is any realized person will not do such things at all

at least we didnt find any saints who did such things in history of thousands of years

The Destroyer

7:23 PM

@RakeshJoshi I think there are many versions. In Shiva Purana, nothing is mentioned in detail.

Rakesh Joshi

does any purana say it was forced .. or done with cheating

@KeshavSrinivasan what u think of mohini story

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi did you read exact words of Shankara on this?

Rakesh Joshi

yes what is ur point

The Destroyer

14

A: Was Adi Shankaracharya’s Parakaya Pravesha to learn Kamashastra Dharmic?

Renowned Advaitin Sri Vidyarana Swami had written a biography of Sri Adi Shankara. And this instance is also recorded in it. Canto 9 of Madhaviya Shankara Digvijaya records this incident. Shankara decides to enter the body of King as: Sankara said to his disciple Padmapada "Here lies dead t...

Rakesh Joshi

see my detailed answer with logic on the post

The Destroyer

7:34 PM

@RakeshJoshi problem arises as you don't believe his realization

But Shankara says it is similar to krshna with gopis

Or stealing their clothes

Rakesh Joshi

7:50 PM

what did u remove comment sir i did not read

Chinmaya B

8:04 PM

@SwiftPushkar @SwiftPushkar Formality mhanun bolla ki kharach. mala watla ki tu Advita wala aahe mhanun mala fakta marathi mhanun hi hello challay.

Chinmaya B

8:16 PM

@TheDestroyer @TheDestroyer I agree Logic cannot win over Shastras that's why Vedas are Shabda Pramana because they are expounded By Bhagwan himself(i.e. he can only teach us about himself).

@TheDestroyer Doing that is equivalent to laughing on Pancharatra agamas because he laughing at the seer Sage Narayana, it is sarvamanya(acceptable by everyone) that The Badri vishala expounded Pancharatra Agamas, at the same time I thank Adi Shankaracharya to save Badrinath from Atheists.

Chinmaya B

8:34 PM

@TheDestroyer "But there are also instances of acharyas resorting to personal attacks" So that's how you will justify Acharya apmana?

@TheDestroyer Give me a single instance where I have disrespected a single acharya, I even respect Nastikas like Rishabha, Buddhists etc.

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