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12:01 AM
hey
I have a probability question.
can someone help with the last part of question e here imgur.com/a/N5806
 
does integration by u substitution not work in all cases? for example if i have x*sin x dx , i don't know how to get just x dx to integrate since i will have cos x dx
 
@arctictern
 
any ideas?
 
12:18 AM
@WDUK Yeah, u-substitution isn't always helpful.
For that particular example, you'd instead want to do integration by parts to get rid of the x in front.
 
is there a good way to remember which method to use based on what i have to integrate?
 
What I think is useful is to think in terms of a priority list.
If you can see a smart substitution, do that.
(I include in that category stuff like trig substitutions.)
 
Apparently every non compact complete metric space is homeomorphic to a non complete metric space, that's a bit unexpected
 
If you see something of the form $f(x)g'(x)$, then integration by parts is a smart move.
In particular, it's usually what you want to do if you've got an integral like $x^n f(x)$. (Though in that case you usually are doing trig/hyperbolic trig/exponential functions, so taking antiderivatives is easy.)
 
i see, i hope matrices are not as difficult as learning this stuff xD
 
12:46 AM
Is there nothing in braid theory called the plot twist?
 
The puns never ends it seems
 
@AkivaWeinberger Probably not.
 
1:11 AM
Hey @arctictern
 
hello
@JessyunBourne If you know what an elementary matrix is you should be able to count how many there are.
 
I'm assuming you need $n$ of them.
 
don't assume
 
But I'm having trouble with the minutiae of showing it for $A = \begin{pmatrix} a_{11} & a_{12} & \cdots & a_{1n} \\ a_{21} & a_{22} & \cdots & a_{2n} \\ \vdots & \vdots& & \vdots \\ a_{n1} & a_{n2} & \cdots & a_{nn} \end{pmatrix}$ where $\det(A) = \pm 1$
 
How do I show $y'=f(x,y)=\frac{xy\cos(y)}{x^2+y^2},y(-1)=3/4$ has a unique solution which may be extended arbitrarily close to the boundary of the region $D=\{(x,y):-1\leq x\leq 1,y\in\Bbb{R},(x,y)\neq(0,0)\}$
 
1:22 AM
You need the same number of elementary matrices as it's going to take row operations to turn $A$ into $I_{n}$
 
@JessyunBourne induction - show you can apply elementary matrices in order to reduce A to a block matrix with blocks of size (n-1)x(n-1) and 1x1 (the lower block just being [1])
 
@Simple it looks obvious for $(x,y)$ not approaching $(0,0)$
 
@arctictern I don't think I understand you.
 
And since I haven't actually learned multivariable calculus, I can't say much more. However, I can see that the limit to $(0,0)$ does not exist
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt I know it is not continuous at the origin
 
1:24 AM
You mean the first n-1 rows and first n-1 columns will be whatever the right hand lower corner is 1 and everything else is 0?
 
Then I need to learn multivariable calculus
 
I don't know how to show this!!
It's sthe minutiae. the mechanics.
 
@JessyunBourne Would be easier I suppose to put the 1x1 block on the upper left.
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt this is an ODE question
 
I've been working on this for two whole days, and I am really bad at visualizing what people are telling me I'm supposed to do.
 
1:25 AM
Oh
Oops
 
@arctictern actually that makes a lot more sense.
 
now, there's an algorithm we were given in our notes...
 
@JessyunBourne yeah. so the first order of business is to zero out the first column, except for the top.
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt The matter is I need to the function is local Lipchitz
 
1:26 AM
Yup, I haven't learned those things
 
It's a lemma actually: Assume that at least one entry of $M$ is nonzero. Then using elementary transformations described above, we can transofmr $M$ to the form with zeroes in the first row and in the first column except $r_{11}$: $M = \begin{pmatrix}d & 0 & 0 & \cdots \\ 0 & r_{22} & r_{23} \cdots \\ 0 & r_{32} & r_{33} & \cdots \\ \cdots & \cdots & \cdots & \cdots& \cdots \end{pmatrix}$
 
Yep.
After that of course you can make d=1. Then you do the n-1 case in the lower block.
 
But it doesn't say how to get $d = 1$, nor does it tell us how to take care of things when we want to keep our determinant $\pm 1$ or what to do when all the entries are integers.
@arctictern also, how many matrices do you need just to get it to that point up there?
 
@JessyunBourne well, $\det(M)=d\cdot\det(R)$, where $R$ is your lower block. If this $=1$, then $d=\pm1$. If $d=-1$ you can multiply by an elementary matrix to make it $+1$.
 
Because we're supposed to start out with $A \in GL(n, \mathbb{Z})$...
But, what am I supposed to be doing? Taking $A$ and turning it into $I_{n}$?
 
1:30 AM
Yes.
 
In that case, it shouldn't matter what the determinant becomes in the process, right?
As long as all the entries remain integers?
 
What do you mean?
 
I'm saying that the resulting matrix is going to be $I_{n}$, so if the determinant changes signs along the way, it doesn't matter, because in the end it's going to be $+1$
 
The determinant can only change sign when you multiply by the elementary matrices we're using.
 
Just keep track of the sign changes I guess
I know that.
 
1:31 AM
Not sure why you care.
 
it can only change sign if you multiply it by elementary matrices that result in switched rows
I'm probably just overthinking
 
Or diag(-1,1,1,...,1), yeah
 
There's also a guy who answered the question and introduced all this crazy terminology.
 
Lee? He didn't introduce crazy terminology, he used standard terminology.
 
It might be standard, but it's not terminology I'm familiar with.
I'm getting kind of confused by all the subscripts
I had to try to work out everything he did just to keept hat from happening
Anyway, here's how I'd do it.
Say $a_{11} = 0$, then ,because $A \in GL(n, \mathbb{Z}), \exists a_{i1} \neq 0$.
So, switch rows $1$ and $i$, or as Lee says $D_{i}A$
 
1:35 AM
@Semiclassical can it be possible that you are still here?
 
Now, take whatever element is in the first row, first column - call it $a_{11}$ (let's pretend like $a_{11}$ wasn't $0$).
 
@Semiclassical can I ask you something or is it enough about $\phi_A$ today?:)
 
sure, no guarantees I can answer of cours
 
@Semiclassical but you know what the $\phi_A$ means. So, will tipe it down in some minutes, the question.
 
1:38 AM
If $a_{11}<0$, negate first row. Otherwise, go directly to looking at $a_{21}$.
Now, here's where I get confused.
 
Are you going to use the Lemma you mentioned?
 
@arctictern am I supposed to find the $\gcd(a_{11}, a_{21})$ and do what with it?
Yes, but I don't understand the way the proof is written
 
Is this for an assignment or personal edification?
 
I could just straight up apply the lemma if all I wanted to show was that $GL(n, \mathbb{Z})$ was finitely generated, but they want me to actually specifically say what the generating set is.
 
@JessyunBourne The proof of the lemma uses elementary matrices doesn't it?
 
1:40 AM
@arctictern yes. I got an extension on some assignments and the final for this course from last semester b/c my father was sick. I have until the end of the month
@arctictern no it uses elementary transformations.
 
which are?
elementary transformations are just multiplication by elementary matrices (on the left and right)
 
No. My message is too long.
It says the transofmraions are $m_{1} \mapsto m_{1} - tm_{2}$
 
hi
 
for some $t$ where $d = \gcd(m_{1}, m_{2})$
 
@JessyunBourne Subtracting $t$ times row $2$ from row $1$ is just subtracting row $2$ from row $1$ a total of $t$ times, and subtracting one row from another is accomplished by multiplying by elementary matrices.
 
1:47 AM
Is $[0,1]^2$ a quotient of $[0,1]$? Taking $f$ to be a space-filling curve, and having the equivalence relation be $f(x)=f(y)$
 
I'm never going to figure this out.
 
Figure what out?
 
How to prove this problem
How to formally write out and express what the finite generating set of $GL(n, \mathbb{Z}) $ is
 
You already know what the generating set is right?
And you're trying to prove it?
 
No.
All I know it's the "elementary matrices"
Nothing more specific than that.
 
1:51 AM
You know what elementary matrices are?
 
yes
But that doesn't matter.
Because it needs to have some kind of systematicness or algorithmicness or something
 
So you know what elementary matrices are, you know they are a finite generating set, but you don't know what the generating set is? You seem to be contradicting yourself.
I asked you: you already know what the generating set is, now you have to go about proving it, right?
 
I don't know how to algorithmically show it. I keep getting confused.
 
There we go.
 
Everybody keeps telling me to do it for n=2 and I'm sick of them telling me that.
 
1:53 AM
Do you understand the effect of multiplying by elementary matrices on the left and right? (In other words, do you understand how these give us elementary transformations?)
 
I even get confused on that, because I don't really understand how to turn $\begin{pmatrix} a_{11} & a_{12} \\ a_{21} & a_{22} \end{pmatrix}$ using that language and using gcds
 
One step at a time. Answer my latest question.
 
I know if I wanted to transpose rows, I'd multiply $\begin{pmatrix} a_{11} & a_{12} \\ a_{21} & a_{22} \end{pmatrix}$ on the left by the elementary matrix $\begin{pmatrix} 0 & 1 \\ 1 & 0 \end{pmatrix}$
Actually i lied that's the wrong one.
 
That's correct.
 
NM, that's the right one
 
1:56 AM
And what would be the effect if you multiplied on the right?
 
@Semiclassical I have shown that $Image(\phi_A)=\langle a_1, \ldots, a_n\rangle $, where $a_i$ stay for columns, that was pretty ok because of our conversation. Then I was given an $A=\begin{pmatrix} -2&1&3&2 \\ 1 & 0&-3&1 \\1&-1&0&-3\end{pmatrix}$ and have to find a basis $B$ of $kernel(\phi_A)$. I found out that kernel is the set of vectors $\{ \begin{pmatrix} -\lambda_4+3\lambda_3 \\ 3\lambda_2-4\lambda_4 \\ \lambda_3 \\ \lambda_4\end{pmatrix} \mid \lambda_4, \lambda_3 \in \mathbb{R}\}$.
 
Random ramblings — YouTube captions cannot distinguish between "kerosene" and "heresy"
 
But I am confused about finding the basis of this space. How can I find a basis being giving the set with conditions like this one?
 
$\begin{pmatrix} a_{12} & a_{11} \\ a_{22} & a_{21} \end{pmatrix}$ so same thing but transposing columns instead of rows.
 
It helps, I think, to write the set of vectors you got as an explicit linear combination of vectors, with $\lambda_3,\lambda_4$ as coefficients.
 
1:57 AM
@JessyunBourne Right.
 
Just to check: Should $\lambda_2$ in there be $\lambda_3$?
 
So, next thing. Do you understand how you can use row operations to make the first two entries (say a and b) of the first column the gcd(a,b) and 0?
 
@arctictern no
This is where everything falls apart for me
 
@Semiclassical yeap, sorry $3\lambda_3$ should it be
 
@JessyunBourne Are you familiar with the Euclidean algorithm or Bezout's identity?
 
1:59 AM
@arctictern yes
 
Yes to both?
 
yes
So, let's divide $a_{11} by a_{21}$
 
If you think of the first two entries as (a,b), then row operations mean you can do things like (a,b)->(a,b+a) or ->(a,b-a) or (a+b,b) etc. In other words, you can do the Euclidean algorithm in the first two entries of the first column.
 
then, $r = a_{11} - qa_{22}$
 
$a_{21}$ but yeah
 
2:01 AM
yes, but what specifically do I have to multiply them by in order to get $1$ and $0$? And how will the $gcd(a,b)$ help me?
 
to replace $a_{11}$ by $a_{11}-qa_{21}$ you have to subtract the second row from the first row $q$ times
 
I know that!
 
subtracting one row from another is accomplished by multiplying by an elementary matrix
 
I mean what do I have to do to turn the first entry into $1$ and the second entry into $0$?
How does this help me accomplish that?
 
@Semiclassical so, just again $x_1 \cdot (LAMBDAS) + x_2 \cdot (LAMBDAS) + \ldots = 0$ ?
 
2:02 AM
I know that as well.
 
You can't do that right away. The best you can do is get the first entry $\gcd(a_{11},a_{21})$ and the second entry $0$.
 
Okay, so how do I do that much at least?
 
What?
 
You said you're familiar with the Euclidean algorithm right? For example,
(14,9)->(5,9)->(5,4)->(1,4)->(1,0).
 
@Semiclassical I thought you meant a linear combination with this lambda-vectors as coefficients
 
2:04 AM
The Euclidean algorithm starts with (a,b) as input and can spit out (gcd(a,b),0) as output.
 
So, you just keep repeating until you're done?
 
Yes.
 
So, say I had a larger matrix.
Say I had a $3 \times 3$ matrix.
 
hi again
 
??? The $\lambda$'s aren't vectors.
 
2:06 AM
Once you get the first entry $\gcd(a_{11},a_{21})$ and the second entry $0$, you would do the Euclidean algorithm again, but this time using the first and third rows. This will end up with the third row having $0$ in the first column.
 
I'd do that $a_{11}$ and $a_{21}$ first and then do it again with $a_{11}$ and $a_{31}$?
 
Right.
 
@Semiclassical are they not elements of a vector space?
 
I totally sassed that other dude who answered me. But I just deleted the sass.
 
@Semiclassical you mean, they are scalars?
 
2:07 AM
^ Right. Like you said above: $\lambda_3,\lambda_4\in \mathbb{R}$.
 
So, once I'm done with the entire column, then I need to try to do the same thing for the whole first row.
 
Right. Which can be accomplished the same way, but using column operations instead of row operations.
 
So, multiplying on the right by the elementary matrices this time.
 
Yes.
 
Then, you move on to what's in $a_{22}$
and repeat., this time $n-1$ times?
 
2:09 AM
@Semiclassical Lambdas of course, but still not $\begin{pmatrix} \lambda_1 \\ \lambda_2 \\ \lambda _3 \\ \lambda_4\end{pmatrix} \in \mathbb{R}^4$
 
Well, at this point we've zeroed out the first row and column except $a_{11}$. Then $a_{11}$ must be $\pm1$. If $a_{11}=-1$ then multiply by ${\rm diag}(-1,1,\cdots,1)$. Otherwise we have proved the lemma. Then you want to use the lemma in an induction proof (or in other words, if you're describing the full algorithm, then yes repeat with the new lower block matrix, so we're zeroing out row&column a total of $n-1$ times).
 
can I kill myself now...
 
@10Replies I'll join you.
@arctictern Okay, I'm going to try to write this up. How would an induction proof go for this though? The lemma would be my base case. Then, what's the induciton hypothesis?
 
@JessyunBourne That what you're trying to prove is true for (n-1)x(n-1) matrices...
 
What I'm getting at is that, for instance, $$\displaystyle \binom{\lambda_1}{\lambda_2}=\lambda_1 \binom{1}{0}+\lambda_2 \binom{0}{1}=\lambda_1 e_1+\lambda_2 e_2$$
 
2:14 AM
Is it bad that in every chat room I visit I must make all the starboard even numbers?
 
Pretty sure no one would notice it...
 
No, the induction hyposthesis is "assume true for"
What am I assuming true for?
 
@JessyunBourne Assume true for n-1.
 
And show true for what?
 
Huh?
 
2:16 AM
Base case is the lemma. Assume true for $n-1$. Then, show true for...
 
For $n$. That's how induction works...
 
Usually yes.
But the fact that we're dealing with rows and columns of matrices is confusing.
The lemma isn't just showing hte case for $1\times 1$. It's showing that $a_{11} = 1$ and the rest of the row and column that $a_{11}$ is in are made up of zeros
It kind of seems then like $n-1$ is just the rest of the square
 
@Semiclassical so like $\lambda_4 \cdot \begin{pmatrix}-1\\-4\\0\\1\end{pmatrix}+\lambda_3 \cdot \begin{pmatrix}3\\3\\1\\0\end{pmatrix}$? And these two are my basis vectors? :)
 
The lemma reduces proving the theorem for nxn matrices to proving it for (n-1)x(n-1) matrices, which is true by induction hypothesis.
 
Let's say it was a 5x5 matrix
 
2:21 AM
If that's the entire kernel, then yes. Those two vectors are enough.
 
and we reduced it to $\begin{pmatrix} 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & a_{22} & a_{23} & a_{24} & a_{25} \\ 0 & a_{32} & a_{33} & a_{34} & a_{35} \\ 0 & a_{42} & a_{43} & a_{44} & a_{45} \\ 0 & a_{52} & a_{53} & a_{54} & a_{55} \end{pmatrix}$ using the lemma
 
(I think it is, since the last row of $A$ is the sum of the previous two and therefore the rank is reduced.)
 
What would the $n-1$ case look like in terms of that matrix.
 
@Semiclassical I did it as you said with a set transformation. Also, $ran(A)=2$
 
Yeah.
 
2:23 AM
So that I can see what I'm assuming I have been able to reduce and what I still need to reduce
 
hi @ted
 
@JessyunBourne You see the $(n-1)\times(n-1)$ block matrix. We're both staring right at it on the screen. It's the $4\times 4$ block.
 
Hi @Semiclassic, @tern, @Jessy
 
hello
 
But that's the rest of the problem
 
2:24 AM
@TedShifrin hello
 
and hi, @Kirill
 
hi @TedShifrin
 
@Semiclassical build these two vectors the only basis of kernel, or can I modify them into the $e_i$ vectors, too?
 
i was just looking at vieta's formulas.
 
hi @Zach
 
2:26 AM
they appeared twice in the same problem set so id thought id check it out
 
They show up a lot in math competition (and in serious math, too), @Zach.
 
Or do you mean that if I assume that $\begin{pmatrix} 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & a_{33} & a_{34} & a_{35} \\ 0 & 0 & a_{43} & a_{44} & a_{45} \\ 0 & 0 & a_{53} & a_{54} & a_{55} \end{pmatrix}$ is the $n-1$ case?
 
i was also looking at stuff like modulo arithmetic for problems like "what is the units digit of large power here"
 
@JessyunBourne If n=5 then n-1=4 and that is not a 4x4 block matrix.
 
Yes, I taught that kind of stuff in abstract algebra, @Zach. Sometimes you need Fermat's little theorem. Sometimes not.
 
2:28 AM
If you don't think "reduce from nxn to (n-1)x(n-1) and the (n-1)x(n-1) case is the induction hypothesis" makes sense to you, then just describe the algorithm as you wanted to do so before I mentioned induction.
 
@Ted a lot of it is searching for patterns
 
@kirill Not sure what you mean, but you certainly don't have to use those two vectors as a basis. Any basis of two vectors which generates the kernel will do.
 
well, sometimes theory tells you the patterns :)
 
Because the way I understand induction, I would assume instead $\begin{pmatrix} 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 0 & 0 & a_{44} & a_{45} \\ 0 & 0 & 0 & a_{54} & a_{55} \end{pmatrix}$
@arctictern what you're saying makes sense, it just doesn't match my concept of what induction means
 
(One has to be a bit careful with choosing a basis. For instance, do (1,0)^T and (2,0)^T generate the same subspace? Over $\mathbb{R}^2$ they do, but not over $\mathbb{Z}^2$!)
 
2:31 AM
So, what you're saying isthat our base case and our induciton hypothesis are pretty much the same thing here.
which usually they are not.
 
@JessyunBourne I did not at all say that.
 
@TedShifrin i think im going to hit the snoozer. 6:30 am for me tomorrow.
 
@arctictern so the base case isn't the 5x5 matrix with a 1 in the upper left hand corner and o's below and to the right of it?
 
That's the induction hypothesis?
the thing with the 4x4 block inside
 
2:34 AM
The lemma says you can multiply A by elementary matrices until it's a matrix A' with 1 in the upper left and an (n-1)x(n-1) matrix B in the lower right. By induction hypothesis, B is a product of elementary matrices. If we "frame" each of those elementary matrices (used to express B) by putting 0s to its left and on top of it and a 1 in the upper left, we have just written A' as a product of elementary matrices.
 
@Semiclassical got it. No, I thought, that as the dimension of my kernel is 2, I can just give two $e_i$ vektors and say that they build a basis. But, if everything were so simple, I could not get the purpose of my calculations with lambdas.
 
The proposition P(n) here is "any matrix in GL(n,Z) can be written as a product of elementary matrices."
 
Right.
 
One is showing that P(n) is true if we assume P(n-1) is true and use the lemma.
 
finitely many elementary ces
matrices
Okay. I'm going to go for a little while and try to work this out on paper.
Thanks for all your help @arctictern
 
2:35 AM
thank you, @Semiclassical!
 
Night @Zach.
 
how do i get a trsncript?
 
@TedShifrin The file you sent me won't open
 
Ah, it's an .eps file.
 
2:39 AM
Morning.
 
@TedShifrin Thanks. Added a .eps at the end, now it works
 
G'night, @MikeM.
Sorry about that, DogAteMy.
So, try to understand why the picture is what it is :P
 
There we go ^
 
What are we doing?
 
Just trying to receive a missing figure
 
2:42 AM
hm, that's a neat picture
 
So now everyone can guess (along with my avatar) what that is. :P
 
hah. You say that :P
 
I can post the exercise it came from
> Let $f:\Bbb R^3\to\Bbb R$ be given by$$f\begin{pmatrix}x\\y\\z\end{pmatrix}=z^2+4x^3z -6xyz+4y^3-3x^2y^2$$Is $M=f^{-1}(\{0\})$ a smooth surface (2-dimensional manifold)? If not, at what points does it fail to be so?
 
Hint to DogAteMy: The curve where it fails to be is in bold in that picture.
 
2:47 AM
I'm good.
 
So I compute the partials with respect to $x$, $y$, and $z$, if I recall correctly?
And see where they're all zero
 
DogAteMy: Yes, you want to know if there are any points where they all vanish. If not, it's a smooth surface.
(BTW, you come back to manifolds much more seriously in a few chapters.)
 
I'm actually not as far in your book as I should be, mostly because of school but also partly because I began reading this thing on machine learning.
 
Do you actively time manage?
 
No. I guess I should.
 
2:49 AM
I've found it helpful.
 
looks at piles of index cards on heavily-disorganized desk Hm, maybe these could be useful
(Blank index cards)
By the way, here's a question: Is the word "fifteen" stressed on the first syllable or on the second?
This popped into my head a few days ago and I realized I don't actually know
and, according to Wiktionary, it depends on what the next word is
 
LOL, DogAteMy. Yeah, I mostly accent on the first, but occasionally on the second, I think.
 
anyone have any pointers for solving this?
 
@arctictern one more thing if you're still here. How do we know that $a_{11} = \pm 1$?
 
Uh, make a matrix, put it in echelon (sp?) form, hope that the quadratic doesn't get really messy
 
2:52 AM
@JessyunBourne because $\det(A)=a_{11}\det($ lower block $)$
@10Replies the first two equations describe a line. parametrize the line, say as a function of t, then plug into third equation, try to solve for t (see which values of a make it possible)
 
Yup, @10Replies, what Akiva said is right. Any time you get questions like that, you make an augmented matrix and put it in echelon form.
 
oh, the third equation is linear too
disregard me
 
@arctictern so if I want the 1 in the $a_{11}$ place right at this pont, go ahead and multiply by $diag\{-1,1,1,\cdots, 1\}$?
 
If you want to turn $a_{11}=-1$ into $+1$, yes.
 
DogAteMy: So the question is how this surface arises from that curve. :)
 
2:56 AM
Sorry, dealing with overdue library books, will get to you in a bit
 
ROFL ... I'll be going to eat dinner "in a bit." :D
 
According to the renewal-by-phone system, I have "no outstanding items," which is false — I have two overdue books — but, uh, I'll take it.
So, uh, I, uh compute the partial thingies of the thingy
 
Gotta love computers.
 
Well, it's a phone, but same thing I guess
$$\begin{bmatrix}12x^2z-6yz+6xy^2, & -6xz+12y^2-6x^2y, & 2z+4x^3-6xy\end{bmatrix}$$
I think
This isn't very helpful.
$$2\begin{bmatrix}6x^2z-3yz+3xy^2, & -3xz+6y^2-3x^2y, & z+2x^3-3xy\end{bmatrix}$$
 
So can you figure out where all three are 0?
 
3:04 AM
What do I do now...
 
There shouldn't be any x's ...
 
13 mins ago, by 10 Replies
user image
 
I should probably put my thing into a vertical matrix
@TedShifrin a, x, same thing
 
No, the derivative is a row, DogAteMy.
 
Right, but if I take the transpose it would probably be easier for me to do the calculations
 
3:05 AM
I don't know what you're doing @10Replies.
No difference, DogAteMy. It's the same high school algebra.
 
I'm trying to solve problem 17 @TedShifrin
"@10Replies, what Akiva said is right. Any time you get questions like that, you make an augmented matrix and put it in echelon form."
 
I like being right
 
I understand, @10Replies. The matrices you put up there make no sense to me.
 
I also like being wrong, if only because I think I'm right at the time
What I don't like is realizing that I was wrong
 
The x represents the unknown constant
I put it in the matrix cause I didn't know what else to put there.
 
3:08 AM
It was an $a$ in the original problem, but whatever
Same thing
 
But then there are an a and a b off on the side?
 
a is the first row, b the second and c the last row
 
Where did the first row of your matrix come from @10Replies
-1, 2, 5, 2?
 
@AkivaWeinberger I swapped the first and second row
 
And you have not gone to echelon form at all. Use the 1 at the top left (don't change it ever) to get rid of the both the coefficients under it.
Don't swap. Keep the 1 and use it to remove the lower coefficients.
 
3:09 AM
@10Replies I still don't see it
It's like you only partly swapped them
Like you only swapped the first two numbers in each row but not the last two
 
oh... lol. That could be why I am having trouble
 
Follow Ted's advice
 
Yeah, Ted taught linear algebra for only 35 years. :P
 
You're still ignoring my advice ... Great.
Don't change the first row at all.
And you haven't killed off the 4 in the last row.
 
3:20 AM
Why shouldn't I change the first row?'
 
Because your goal is to get a 1 in the upper left to use to clear out everything else. When you have a 1, don't mess with it at all.
 
Returning to that problem: We get $y=x^2$, $z=x^3$, and the fact that I had a sign error in my computation of the partial with respect to $x$
But, yeah, it's $[t,t^2,t^3]$.
 
Ah, perfect, DogAteMy. Now, how did the surface arise from that curve? :) This is a fundamental example in differential geometry, it turns out. :P
 
...That equation (the equation for $f$) looks too ugly to be a "fundamental example" O_o
 
The construction from the curve is a fundamental example.
 
3:22 AM
But, uh, we end up with $f\begin{pmatrix}t\\t^2\\t^3\end{pmatrix}=$...
 
It sure better be 0.
 
$t^6+4t^6-6t^6+4t^6-3t^6$
$=0$. Right.
How do I see that it's the locus of the tangent lines?
 
Ah, so you guessed that from the pic?
I leave you do answer that. :)
 
No, it was in the answer — that's how I knew that the pic was missing in the first place
I'm sorry, I had looked ahead
 
Oh right. I gave it away. Well, knowing that answer, prove it's right. :)
 
3:26 AM
 
Why is the 4 still there?
 
In the bottom right corner?
 
Bottom left.
 
I don't know how to add things to the bottom row because it has X in it..
 
Hm. Tangent line is everything normal to $\nabla[t,t^2,t^3]$, right? Or am I confusing stuff up @TedShifrin
 
3:28 AM
Don't worry about the x. Use the 1 in the upper left to use the first row to kill the 4 in the last row.
You're confusing stuff down, DogAteMy.
 
You're confusing me all around
Oh, sorry, the tangent line to the twisted cubic at the point $[t,t^2,t^3]$ would be everything of the form $[t,t^2,t^3]+s[1,2t,3t^2]$?
 
Righto, DogAteMy. :)
 
${}=[s+t,2st+t^2,3st^2+t^3]$
which looks worse
 
Well, eliminate s,t in favor of x,y,z. :P
 
3:37 AM
I'm not checking your work. But what happens if $x=\pm\sqrt{12}$?
 
I see!.. I think
 
And I finally get what your a,b stuff means.
 
Hey all!
 
When z is divided by zero, the matrix has no solutions... when z is zero, it has infinite, and when z is anything else, the matrix has one?
 
@10Replies: You'll only have infinitely many solutions if $a^2-12=a+26=0$ (which can't happen). So can $a^2-12=0$ happen? If it doesn't, then I agree that there's a unique solution.
 
3:43 AM
So just dividing by zero isn't enough to warrant infinite solutions? You need 0/0?
 
You're not dividing by zero. The equation says $0z = 23$, say. In other words, $0=23$. That cannot happen. But if the last equation says $0z = 0$, then the equation gives no information and you have just the first two equations.
 
I thought that if the equation has 0z=0 it is the same as one of the other equations and therefore there are infinite solutions?
nvm, thats stupid.
 
There will be infinitely many solutions, because you'll have z as a "free variable," yes.
 
But not really infinite solutions because it is parametric.
now I'm really confused... Should parametric equations count as infinite?
 
It's still infinitely many solutions. When you have a free variable, it is in fact a parameter, but as it varies through all real numbers, you get infinitely many solutions.
 
3:50 AM
So if z = x/0 when x is nonzero, how many solutions will the matrix have?
 
Don't write that.
 
If the coefficient of z is 0 and the constant on the right is not zero, you have 0=23, which is impossible. So there are NO solutions. Read what I wrote up above. I have to leave now. Good luck!
 
ok! Cya
Now I get it. Just a little tired.
 

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