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4:01 AM
@TedShifrin I give up. Where do I go from here?
 
4:14 AM
After lots of mashing into Wolfram Alpha, assuming I haven't made a mistake, I got:
$-4 x^3 z + 3 x^2 y^2 + y^3 + z^2 = 0$
 
what are you trying to do? implicitize the twisted cubic with tangent lines?
 
And, you know what, I think I messed up
@arctictern Yeah
 
DogAteMy: It isn't that impossible. :)
$x=s+t$, $y=2st+t^2$, $z=3st^2+t^3$, right?
 
math.stackexchange.com/questions/2131261/… someone help me with this problem
 
@TedShifrin Yeah
I have $s=\sqrt{x^2-y}$ and $t=x-\sqrt{x^2-y}$
 
4:24 AM
Yeah, but that isn't necessarily right.
 
and then I plug it into $z$ with Wolfram Alpha but it's not giving me answers that make sense
 
You can do Eliminate in Mathematica, but we can do this by hand.
First, you get $s=x-t$, then we have $y=t(2s+t)=t(2x-t)$.
Let's see if that gets us somewhere. $z=t^2(3s+t) = t^2(3x-2t)$. Hmm ...
Probably I should have eliminated $t$ instead of $s$, but let's see ...
 
Got it: $4x^3z-3x^2y^2-6xyz+4y^3+z^2=0$, which matches what you have (in a different order)
(using Wolfram Alpha)
 
OK, but I've done this by hand. I think I want to eliminate $t$.
It shows to go how difficult it is to see from an equation what is actually going on. There's another exercise (perhaps in Chapter 6) to give the equation of a torus, and it can be well-disguised.
If I eliminate $t$, I get $y=x^2-s^2$, $z=(x-s)^2(x+2s)$. This looks better.
I'm not seeing it now. I'll get back to you tomorrow :)
I know it's late over there.
 
What's the problem? :0
 
4:33 AM
Sure. See you tomorrow
 
Eliminate $s,t$ from $x=s+t$, $y=2st+t^2$, $z=3st^2+t^3$ and get it as an equation in $x,y,z$, @SAW.
 
It comes from the locus of all tangent lines to the curve $[t,t^2,t^3]$.
The answer ends up being $4x^3z-3x^2y^2-6xyz+4y^3+z^2=0$.
 
But you wanna see the steps? :0
 
Yup.
I know I did this a hundred years ago before Mathematica.
It's a venerable part of algebra called elimination theory.
 
4:36 AM
I just need to be more socratic, DogAteMy :D
 
Hm. Can we do this another way: define $\deg(x)=1$, $\deg(y)=2$, and $\deg(z)=3$, and write out all possible terms of degree six?
Then use linear algebra to find a linear combination of those that equals zero.
 
Sure, that'll work fine.
 
The question remains, why six
but apparently it works
 
@AkivaWeinberger maybe compute xy-z, y-x^2 and z-x^3 in terms of s and t?
 
Except for $x^4y$ and $x^6$, all of those terms end up being used. I suspect it has something to do with the fact that $x^6$ is the only one with degree six in $s$, and $x^4y$ is the only one with degree five in $s$
so they can't cancel out
@arctictern Tried that, didn't work as well as I'd hoped
 
4:41 AM
Those are the three quadrics whose intersection is the twisted cubic, tern, but where do we get the tangent lines?
 
That way I get $\left((z-x^3)-\frac{3}{2}(xy-z)\right)^2=(y-x^2)^3$
@TedShifrin I never said =0 in my message. I said compute those things in terms of s and t.
Then look for relations.
 
Hmm, well, we have an irreducible surface here, so there can't be two different equations unless ...
Gotcha, tern.
 
$xy-z=2s^2t, \qquad y-x^2=s^2, \qquad z-x^3=3ts^2+s^3$
 
Oh, wow
Wait, is that really $xy-z$?
 
Actually, $y-x^2=-s^2$?
 
4:44 AM
Huh. I don't know why I didn't notice that
Yeah, that works. Good job, Tern.
 
No, I screwed something up.
 
sorry, sign wrong on y-x^2. you're right it should be -s^2.
 
Replace it with $x^2-y$, yeah
 
Right, $x^2-y$ ...
 
All right, I'll say mystery resolved. I'mma go to bed.
 
4:46 AM
LOL. Night, Sir DogAteMy.
 
@TedShifrin ! Can I ask you a few things about vectors ??
 
I'm not staying too long, @Maks, but sure.
 
If I create a plane using three points
Meaning I create 2 vectors using that points and then I find the vector that is normal to those two
The resulting plane will contain the three starting points right ?
 
You haven't told me how to get the equation of the plane yet.
 
4:50 AM
I have three points A,B,C
I create two vectors, for example, A-C and B-C
 
Yes, and you cross them.
 
Yes
 
Call that vector N. Now what?
 
Then with the normal vector I just apply the plane equation
 
Namely?
 
4:52 AM
I do $ \left \langle (x,y,z) - C, n \right \rangle = 0$
 
Oh, sure, you stuck $C$ in there. You're fine.
 
And that gives me a plane equation of the form $ ax + by + cz + d = 0 $
That resulting plane contains the three starting points right ?
 
Yes, and $x=A$ satisfies it because $A-C$ is orthogonal to $n$. Etc.
Yup.
 
And the way I know if a point belongs to the plane
Is by replacing x,y,z with the point coordinates
 
Yup.
 
4:54 AM
Like if I have the point (1,2,3) then $x=1, y=2, z=3$
And if the equation is fulfilled then point belongs to the plane
 
Sure.
 
And the last question
When I'm given a plane equation in the form $ ax + by + cz +d = 0$
And asked to write it like $ x = s(s_1,s_2,s_3) + t(t_1,t_2,t_3) + (p_1,p_2,p_3) $
I just find two vectors and a point that fulfill the equation ?
As long as the vectors are LD
 
LI, not LD
 
LI*
yeah, sorry
 
You find two vectors that satisfy the equation without $d$ in there.
 
4:56 AM
But any vectors ?? which ever one comes to my mind ?
Ignoring the d ?
 
The point $(p_1,p_2,p_3)$ will take care of the $d$.
 
Then they have to fulfill $ ax + by + cz = 0 $ ?
And the point $ ax + by + cz + d = 0 $ ?
 
Note that if you have $ax+by+cz=0$, then $x=-\frac1a(by+cz)$, so you can set $y=1$, $z=0$ and get $(-b/a,1,0)$ and you can set $z=1$, $y=0$ and get $(-c/a,0,1)$.
Those are two vectors that satisfy the equation with $d=0$.
 
For example
 
Now "guess" a point $P$. And check it out.
 
4:58 AM
In one exercise they gave me $3x+3y+z=1$
And I wrote it like $ x = s(1,-1,0) + t(2,-1,3) + (1,0,-3) $
But that was using "d" everytime
 
Your point is wrong.
It does not satisfy the equation.
 
Only the point ?
The vectors are fine ?
 
We're starting there.
The vector $(1,-1,0)$ works fine, but the other one does not.
 
The point could be $(1,0,-2)$ then ?
 
Yes, that point is fine. So is $(0,0,1)$ :)
 
5:01 AM
The second vector can be $(0,1,-3)$
 
Yes.
 
I dont know why I wrote 2 in the first coordinate
I think I'm getting the grip on algebra haha
Thz ted ! :D
 
You're welcome :)
 
Hello everyone!
 
Heya, mad ark.
 
5:03 AM
Haha, how's it going?
 
My back hurts, but otherwise doing great. You?
 
Things are going pretty well. Done with midterms, and at least math went well, so that's a relief
 
I never doubted you.
 
Schlag uses the midterm scores quite a bit to decide bootcamp invitations so the stakes were pretty high :P
 
Ah ...
 
5:05 AM
But yeah, none of us had done all too well on the ODEs question
 
What was the question?
 
It involved integrating factors which came up for 10 seconds in class, really as a side note
Ah
 
I don't believe in exam questions that haven't been treated reasonably carefully, with homework assigned.
Crazy-ass homework is great, but exams are not the place for creative, inventive thinking.
 
So we should find the integral that solves $x'(t) = Ax(t) + f(t)$ where $f$ is continuous, $x:\mathbb{R}\to\mathbb{R}^d$, and $A\in M_d(\mathbb{R})$
Yeah, I'm just glad he didn't give us the midterm he gave last year's group
They got crushed hard
Since it was really heavy on the "Come up with really sneaky ideas in 50 minutes" element. He felt bad and toned it down after that
 
Yeah, so you know that $e^{tA}x_0$ satisfies the equation without the $f$.
 
5:07 AM
Yeah, that was part a
Oh right, side note, $x(0) = 0$
(The last condition was only in part b, where we had the continuous function)
 
Right.
So you do have to write $x'(t)-Ax(t)$ and realize to multiply by $e^{-tA}$.
 
Then part c was to solve $x''(t) + x(t) = \cos(t)$ using it, and solve out the integral
 
This is too much for a short exam.
 
Hi @Ted.
 
Did you do homework where you turned a 2nd order into a 2x2 system?
Heya @Fargle?
 
5:11 AM
Yeah, that came up
 
lol, I know I've been popping in and out lately, just been busy with school (! :D).
 
@Daminark: I actually did that in my course and then proved to them that a (constant coefficient) linear $n$th order ODE had an $n$-dimensional space of solutions.
 
But yeah, that question for part b and c messed me up. I never absorbed ODEs that well, but as it turns out, nobody got it
The other questions were pretty easy
 
They're fine questions, but not under hard time pressure, @Daminark. Computations take too much time. That 2nd order equation gives you $e^{t\begin{bmatrix}0&1\\-1&0\end{bmatrix}}$, which I presume he did in class?
 
1 was linear algebra, part a was to prove that a matrix $A\in M_2(\mathbb{C})$ is triangularizable, to prove that this did not hold in general for $A\in M_2(\mathbb{R})$, and to prove it did for $A\in M_3(\mathbb{C})$.
That equation also came up in the homework
 
5:13 AM
Ah. OK.
Where is all the integral calculus? Hrumph.
Glad to know you're staying out of trouble, @Fargle.
 
It was involved in proving that a unitary matrix was the exponential of a Hermitian matrix times $i$
 
@TedShifrin So far. ;) I have no intention of floundering any further.
 
If I remember correctly
Well, the third problem on the pset was on forms
He gave us $-ydx + xdy$
Asked if it was closed, exact, and to pullback to polar coordinates in part a
 
@Fargle: You'll sell your sole before you do that?
 
Part b was to integrate it over a circle of radius $R$, and part c was to verify Stokes's theorem using this form on the annulus
 
5:16 AM
LOL, @Daminark, my students would have loved stuff that simple :P
 
Yeah
 
I won't alarm you by sharing my exams :P
 
Haha, thank you
Though I think Schlag's exam from last year terrified me enough
 
I gave all sorts of 3D integrals (before and after Stokes's Theorem stuff).
And we did some cool topology proofs using forms, actually. Hairy ball theorem, for example.
I still prefer my course to Chicago's. :P
 
Problem 1: Find the largest open set in the plane such that $\omega = \frac{(x-1)dy + ydx}{(x-1)^2 + y^2} + \frac{(x+1)dx + ydy}{(x+1)^2 + y^2}$ is a smooth 1-form
I forget part b
 
5:18 AM
I guess @Fargle has finally learned to ignore me.
 
shivers 3d integrals
 
Did a figure-8 curve show up in that problem, @Daminark? ... It's a skill worth developing, BTW, 3D stuff.
You guys skip right to Banach spaces and shrug about it.
 
Yeah, we're starting tomorrow, I believe
I mean we kinda all know what they are anyway
Souganidis was telling us about the fixed point theorem
He kept slipping up and saying "Banach space" instead of "complete metric space"
 
Someone posted a question about whether you can do exterior derivatives in the setting of functional analysis (Banach spaces).
 
And then he's like "Aight guys I'm just gonna tell you what a Banach space is so I can say it"
 
5:20 AM
Well, there are plenty of complete metric spaces that are not vector spaces :P
 
Hmm
 
@TedShifrin Oh, no, I was making food. Or maybe I've learned that subconsciously, haha.
 
That's true, but Soug usually only thinks of Banach spaces, I think
 
Food after midnight, @Fargle?
 
Slightly before midnight, thankyaverymuch. :P
 
5:21 AM
Oh, right, you're one zone over.
So I hope you caught my fishy remark.
OK, my back is killing me. I'm going to go lie somewhere. You all take care.
 
I did. I was amused. The pun should be added to the great porpoise of human knowledge.
You too, @Ted. Hope your back feels better.
 
@Fargle: My students would not have survived punless.
 
But yeah, this pset on manifolds is helping me finally understand what they are
Darn, hope you feel better
 
Cool, @Daminark. I'll have some more interesting problems for you when you're out of school :P
Night!
 
Alright, definitely looking forward to them
 
5:28 AM
Why does $\displaystyle \frac{\sqrt{n}}{n}\leq \frac{\sqrt{n}}{n+12 - \sqrt{n}}$ only hold for $n \geq 144$?
it seems like $n+12 - \sqrt{n} \geq n$ $\forall n \geq 1$
So then $\displaystyle \frac{1}{n} \leq \frac{1}{n+12-\sqrt{n}}$
 
@JessyunBourne yes
 
@arctictern huh?
 
You said "it seems like blah" to which I responded yes.
 
Oh ok.
 
And $n+12-\sqrt{n}\ge n \iff 12\ge\sqrt{n}$
 
5:31 AM
So it's not tru that the first statement I wrote holds only for $n \geq 144?$
 
@JessyunBourne I never said that.
Oh, you put $\forall n\ge1$ in your thing.
 
That's what I"m asking you
 
That part is wrong.
 
Okay...
I'm looking at solutions for a problem I have to teach on Tuesday to my students and I want to make sure I understand it.
@arctictern can you give me a counterexample?
 
to what?
It should be obvious that $n+12-\sqrt{n}\ge n$ is equivalent to $12\ge\sqrt{n}$
 
5:38 AM
No, it is.
 
just cancel $n$ from both sides and move the $\sqrt{n}$
so you know why it only holds for $n\ge144$
 
But it seems like $\frac{\sqrt{n}}{n+12-\sqrt{n}} \leq \frac{\sqrt{n}}{n}$ is true for $n = 1$
 
11 mins ago, by JessyunBourne
Why does $\displaystyle \frac{\sqrt{n}}{n}\leq \frac{\sqrt{n}}{n+12 - \sqrt{n}}$ only hold for $n \geq 144$?
 
$\frac{1}{1+12 - \sqrt{1}} \leq \frac{\sqrt{1}}{1}$
eeps. Backwards
Bad, bad jessy
I made a mistake...
N/m
 
yerp
 
5:48 AM
hello
please
is it correct to prove that
a functional
f: X ---> \R
is bounded on X ?
we must write $||f||_X$ or $||f(x)||_{X}$ ?
or $||f||_{\mathcal{L}(X,R)}$
?
 
From h bar:
Will spherical cows be a better choice...?
 
6:26 AM
Yeah, that's creepy as hell.
 
The head looks like a heart
 
6:37 AM
So I'm trying to find the tangent spaces of the special linear group
Anyone have any pointers?
All I got is that at the identity, it's the set of trace 0 matrices
 
@Secret mine's better
@Daminark $T_xG=x\cdot {\frak g}={\frak g} \cdot x$ when $G$ is a matrix Lie group
 
I am not aware of said of the symbols you wrote
 
$T_xG$ means tangent space at $x$, $\frak g$ is the corresponding lie algebra (tangent space of $G$ at the identity)
 
Ah, we hadn't done lie algebras lmao
But I'll try to derive that
 
see what I wrote in parentheses
 
6:45 AM
Thanks!
 
If $g(t)$ is any differentiable path with $g(1)=x$ then differentiating $x^{-1}g(t)$ or $g(t)x^{-1}$ at $t=1$ gives an element of $T_eG$
(note $x^{-1}g(t)$ and $g(t)x^{-1}$ both equal the identity $e$ at $t=1$)
 
Ah
 
@arctictern yours is even creepier. I thought this was a family show! LOL.
I mean you are aware of what that looks like...
 
no, tell me
(okay, being sarcastic)
no idea how that got published
 
It got published in an issue of Hustler.
 
6:59 AM
I saw a giant plant just gobbled some human being or animal or some large object (note the 6 flaps near the base)
O wait, actually, it is a goard
 
 
1 hour later…
8:04 AM
@DHMO hi
 
hi
 
If a numerical method has order 3 convergence is this the same as saying it is has convergence O(n^{-3})
 
in my text book when equation are given like ax+by+cz=0 and dx + ey+fz = 0 then ratio is $$\dfrac {x}{bf - ec} = \dfrac{y}{at - dc} = \dfrac{z}{ae - bd}$$
So in general how they get all denominators?
@DHMO ^
 
@Ramanujan to get the first equation, for example, eliminate z in the two equations
to eliminate z, you have to multiply them each by something and subtract
(after that, get x on one side and y on the other)
 
@arctictern I can do it easily,but problem is text book want to say denominators are like determinant of cofactor matrix
 
8:12 AM
how is that a problem?
 
Like if two equations are$ a_1 x + b_1 y +c_1=0$ and $a_2 x + b_2y + c_2 =0$ then$ x=\dfrac{b_1 c_2 - b_2 c_1}{a_1 b_2 - a_2 b_1}$
And similarly y=……
 
yeah, so?
 
So let's say replace "c" with (some constant ) \times z
 
Hi @Daminark
 
Hi @Balarka
which kind of method @eurocoder?
 
8:17 AM
Ah, hi @Alessandro
 
@arctictern solving in something like this manner ^
 
gonna rewatch something by tarkovsky
 
@arctictern called criss cross method,@DHMO will you help me?
 
help you with what? I don't know what your question is.
 
8:32 AM
@AlessandroCodenotti It is a single step ODE method so it is the convergence when taking n steps of the single step method
 
@Ramanujan no idea
 
Here is actual question bothering me,why denominators are difference of multiples of coefficients of other two variables?
i hope you get what I mean
 
Hey @Balarka
 
@eurocoder so you say that a method has order of convergence $q$ if the error in sup norm goes to $0$ as $h\to 0$ as $O(h^q)$, where $h$ is the offset between the points you exstimate the solution at
More formally you need $\lim\limits_{h\to 0} ||y_n-y(t_n)||=O(h^q)$, where $t_i$ are the points you estimate the solution at, $y$ is the actual solution and $y_n$ is the estimate solution at $t_n$
Actually there's no sup norm involved, take the max over $n$ and it's just a normal modulus
 
8:59 AM
user image
2
Integration by parte'?
 
9:30 AM
hello guys
 
Hey does anybody know how I can turn these facts into an ODE:

1. Interest rate 5%
2. Mortgage 25 years
3. Pay $2000 per month

continous compounding of interest and payments
Would it be like this: $Pe^{rt}-2000t$

Where P in the loan amount?
 
It's not that simple, the mortgage will change everytime you do the monthly repayment and the interest rate will then depends on this new principle
 
@Secret yeah, what I wrote is not even an ODE anyway
 
So it is kinda a nested version of the above equation, which then after some algebra (details forgot) simplifies into something that looks like the annuity formula
 
9:49 AM
@Secret in the question it says that the person pays $2000 every month. Do you think the monthly payment changes?
 
the monthly payment is fixed, since it is a fixed amount instead of something like a % of the mortgage
 
@Secret yep
@Secret so do you think this would be a fair description of the situation: $\frac{\mathrm{d} P}{\mathrm{d} t}-2000t$
i.e. change in P (principal) - monthly payment
@Secret the question just asks me to find the form of the first order ODE for this situation
 
is 5% per annum or per month?
 
@Secret per annum
@Secret yep i see what your getting at
Change to yearly? $\frac{\mathrm{d} P}{\mathrm{d} t}-24000t$
 
I suspect the ODE is actually a recurrence relation, something like

$$\left(\frac{\mathrm{d}P_{n-1}}{\mathrm{d}t}-c\right)(1+r)=\frac{\mathrm{d}P_n}{\mathrm{d}t}$$
 
10:03 AM
@Secret hmmm, ok thanks for your help I'll use the information you gave me to think on it some more
 
If you are unsure, the monthly payment formula can always be looked up, and you can get the ODE straight away by differentiate P wrt t that way. However I think it is more important to understand where it came from and why the formula is that formula
 
 
2 hours later…
12:10 PM
Hi.
I have this integral: $\displaystyle \int_2^{\infty} \dfrac{x+y}{y(y^2-1)\ln(x+y)} dy$. I don't even know if its convergent. Any idea?
 
@Topologicalife You mean as a function of $x$?
 
No, as a function of $y$.
 
I meant the integral
 
The integral is a function of $x$, yeah.
i.e : $f(x) = \displaystyle \int_2^{\infty} \dfrac{x+y}{y(y^2-1)\ln(x+y)} dy$
 
so for fixed $x$, it is clearly convergent. Whether it is uniformly so, I don't know
 
12:20 PM
How do you know if it is convergent?
I guess you bounded it. How?
 
the integrand is bounded by $\frac{1}{y^2}$
 
Mm $\dfrac{y}{y(y^2-1)} \approx \dfrac{1}{y^2} $ as $y \to \infty$
but what about the other terms?
 
they only make the function smaller
 
Ah, right, sorry.
And what about y = 2?
I.e, in a neighbourhood of 2.
 
Hi all
 
12:24 PM
nothing happens around $2$
 
1
Q: Question about Cesàro summation

mickLet $S_n = \sum_{i=0}^n a_i$. Now define The Cesàro Sum as $$ C = \lim_{n \to \infty} \frac{ \sum_{k=0}^n S_k}{n} $$ Is it always true that $$ C = \lim_{n \to \infty} \frac{\sum_{k= n - L(n)}^n S_k}{ L(n)} $$ Where $L(n)$ is any strictly nondecreasing function such that $ 2 < L(n) < ln(n) $.

 
(well, actually I suppose that depends on $x$)
 
I mean, $x$ can cause trouble near $y=2$, right?
 
yeah, if $x = -2$ then you can be in trouble, so it depends on what domain you want
 
Okay.
Thanks. Now I will try to obtain that integral in terms of $x$.
It doesn't seem possible but...
 
12:58 PM
Hi chat
 
If anyone is interested, I'm hosting a big number contest. Code your number in any language (no experience needed), maximum of 256 characters, not including spaces, and try to reach the largest number you can. First submissions due Saturday. :-) chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/51337/…
 

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