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QED
1:00 PM
I might be thinking of blade runner
or something like that
 
@QED I think I see what you mean.
 
Interesting. The OP says they study astrophysics and pure mathematics. I hope I didn't oversimplify my answer...
 
I wonder why Knuth didn't make \epsilon look like \varepsilon.
 
Yes, I don't like \epsilon anymore.
 
I never did.
 
1:06 PM
@Srivatsan nah, don't worry. It's on the level of the other questions asked. From the basic mistakes made in the question, it's perfectly appropriate.
 
@Srivatsan Looks quite fine to me; you never sounded like you were "talking down". I would add that he should see Bressoud's real analysis book as well for a nice view of epsilon-delta.
 
Recently, I have started not liking the tau.
@JM Add that as a comment? =)
 
QED
$\tau + \vartau$
 
@Srivatsan: Use mathspec and \exchangeforms
 
@Matt Knuth has an idiosyncratic way of writing various Greek symbols... Trouble is that the Stix version of \varrho is even uglier than \rho, for example.
 
1:09 PM
@ZhenLin Oh wow. Let me see what that is. (In any case, for all my private purposes, I have defined a newcommand called \eps which is varepsilon, so I am not usually that bothered by this. =))
 
QED
$\varrho$
borel?
 
test $\rho$
 
Thanks by the way, Zhen.
Let me explain the tau bit. I like the tau as in this picture: i.stack.imgur.com/3O0R0.jpg. Does anyone use such a font or seen it being used?
Also thanks for your comments on the answer, @tb and @JM.
 
QED
These hypocrits complaining about Iran testing nuclear weapons when they have their own already
angry
why don't UK and US dismantle their own first
this is why I don't listen to the radio
 
@QED He who has the nukes makes the rules, you know...
 
1:15 PM
test: $\varsigma$ -- Heh, this looks like a varzeta.
 
@Srivatsan: That's from a PDF, I guess?
 
\varsigma is to Greek as ess-zet is to German. :)
 
Not really.
 
QED
I wonder what I should do today instead of juts reloading web pages
 
ς is merely the form of σ used at the ends of words.
 
1:17 PM
@ZhenLin Or a book scanned? It's from this question. Dylan added a scan and I subsequently removed the image from the question.
 
@ZhenLin Okay, it's an oversimplification... :)
 
@Srivatsan: The main body text looks like Times, and the tau certainly matches the symbol in Times on my computer.
(and I mean Times rather than Times New Roman)
 
People write math in those fonts? // This is a serious question, not a sarcastic remark.
 
@Srivatsan No, they (primarily) write Greek words in those fonts. :)
 
@Srivatsan: All the Springer books I have from before 1990 are set in Times (or a variant)!
 
1:19 PM
Sometimes with tonos if necessary.
 
QED
What's the use of commutative algebra?
direct uses
 
@ZhenLin I see. Right.
 
And famously Michael Spivak created a math font for use with Times for his books!
 
QED
> Commutative algebra is the main technical tool in the local study of schemes.
 
@QED Yes, yes it is.
 
QED
1:21 PM
what is the point of local study of schemes
 
To study schemes, duh. :p
Next you're going to ask what the point of schemes is.
 
QED
this is too dry and difficult, I can't find motivation to study this
 
Heh, I was convinced commutative algebra wasn't up my alley, but I knew I would need to study it if I wanted to make any headway in algebraic geometry. So I persisted in banging my head against the wall.
The wall gave way, eventually.
 
QED
I would maybe study algebraic geometry if I didn't have to do commutative algebra.
even though I don't really see what applications algebraic geometry has
 
Oh, and if you're studying from Atiyah and Macdonald, drop the book. It's horrible.
 
1:27 PM
@ZhenLin Aw, I found this. This guy knows what he is talking about.
 
Hello @all happy new year to all
 
Happy new year, Rajesh.
 
Happy New Year, Rajesh.
 
Wait, I forgot all about the new year. :/
 
Happy New Year!
 
1:29 PM
@Srivatsan Plus one for your epsilon delta answer.
 
Indeed, happy 2012 to everybody!
 
@Srivatsan: Aye, he does.
I stopped using Computer Modern for my documents long ago.
But I haven't found a replacement I'm completely happy with.
 
@ZhenLin How about Comic Sans?
 
Hiss boo etc.
 
@Matt You're evil, you know that? :P :D
 
1:31 PM
@JM I do. strokes white fluffy cat
 
@Matt Oh my. Don't remind me. Yesterday I ran into two ladies who were so excited by the comic sans-ish font one of them managed to install in her iPhone.
 
QED
Hahaha
 
Imagine having to listen to a conversation about a phone with pink casing, pink background, and comic sans font. =)
 
@Srivatsan I'd run away like a bat from hell...
 
@JM So not very fast then because bats' legs are quite short...
 
1:35 PM
@Matt Hmm, you have to wonder about that idiom, no? :)
 
@Srivatsan Like Legally Blonde IRL? : )
 
=)
@Matt Ah, thanks.
 
Speaking of that... it took me quite a while to realize the clever wordplay on that movie title.
 
QED
LOL
about the bat
ah it's "Legally Blind" vs working in Legal .. stuff
 
@JM How did you like "Legally Blonde 2: Red, White and Blonde"? =)
 
QED
1:40 PM
I guess that's set in france
no
what does "Red, White and Blonde" mean?
oh it's the american flag
 
@Srivatsan I've watched neither, actually. I don't think I will...
 
@JM Fair enough. I was talking only about the title though.
 
Well, a quick read of the synopsis convinced me that I'm not part of the intended audience of that movie...
 
QED
Reese witherspoon is cute but I'm not going to watch an entire film just for that
 
Going on holiday to a place where you don't speak the language is boring.
 
1:53 PM
Where did you go?
 
I meant because JM asked me if I had folks in Japan. : )
 
@Matt Agreed. At the very least, I get a kick out of shocking locals. :D
 
QED
electrically?
 
I don't know what the shock value is when an East Asian speaks Japanese...
Do it well enough, they won't even realise anything is amiss.
 
I assumed he meant in general.
 
1:58 PM
@Matt Yeah, it's a bit apparent in their eyes that they weren't expecting you to talk to them that way, invariably.
 
QED
You both speak japanese??
 
@QED: just about enough to get myself into trouble, yes.
 
QED
I can barely do english
 
: D
 
QED
Let alone two languages
 
1:59 PM
私なら何とかできますが
 
@JM I think they're quite forgiving towards foreigners : )
@ZhenLin あたしも
 
@ZhenLin Reading is a different matter for me, however... :D
 
そんな言い方でバレちゃうんじゃないですか
 
QED
interesting
 
@ZhenLin バレちゃうってどういう意味?
 
2:01 PM
@JM: Admittedly, I cheated when I started learning because I could read Chinese already, but since then I've ended up having better reading comprehension for Japanese than Chinese...
 
QED
what is the relation between chinese and japanese?
 
@Matt: See here
@QED: Not unlike the relation between Latin and English. Many, many loanwords...
 
@ZhenLin Kanji is essentially Chinese characters that were adapted for Japanese use, no?
 
@ZhenLin Now I learned a new word. : ) Thanks!
 
@JM They're essentially the same, yes.
 
QED
2:04 PM
I gather japanese is great for puns
 
They have a word for pun, but that's not indicative...
 
@QED The wordplay in poems can be intricate, I'm told.
 
@JM I thought they were the old Chinese letters. Before they "simplified" Chinese, if you can really call it that.
 
@Matt Yeah, but it's still all recognisably part of the same system.
 
QED
nice brushstrokes
 
2:07 PM
@Matt I'd be hardpressed to tell the difference between "traditional" and "simplified" myself... :D
 
The trouble is when they start arguing about which character forms are really the same, or actually different... then we get the Han unification wars.
 
There was this nice documentary on Chinese calligraphers/scribes that I watched once. Really nice work.
 
@QED: That's Chinese, not Japanese.
 
QED
> Shown here is a sample of the cursive script by Chinese Tang Dynasty calligrapher Sun Guoting, from the late 7th century.
 
@QED It looks very stylish. =)
 
QED
2:19 PM
yeah I like that
 
I must confess, I never learned enough to read that...
I remember though, being in a calligraphy-tools shop and hearing some Japanese students try to read the samples and actually being able to make some sense out of them!
 
QED
:)
 
Speaking of scripts... @Sri, how fast do you write in script?
 
@JM Er, I didn't follow the question. Which script?
 
@Srivatsan Tamil is written in script, right?
 
2:31 PM
@JM Oh. The letters are disjointed and looks like this. I cannot write too fast; I doubt anyone can be very fast.
Of course, it depends on how good you want the output to look like =)
 
But do people actually write like that?
I mean, Thai is about as elaborate in printed form but my friend's handwriting doesn't look anything like the printed form...
 
@ZhenLin Yes. Is it surprising? // Oh, that is how we write. Not as neatly, but as elaborately.
Apparently, this is how it used to look like.
 
I joked with my friend, if the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, or the Thai invented computers, we would have had high resolution displays much sooner...
 
=)
 
I wish I could actually read Korean.
 
2:38 PM
Why Korean in particular?
 
I already have some reading comprehension in Chinese and Japanese, and Korean would complete the set. :p
 
How different is it from Chinese and Japanese?
 
Apparently, it's basically the same as Japanese, except all the words are different and there are a lot more sounds.
 
Somehow I have the impression that Hangul isn't as complicated as, say, Hiragana...
 
Pfft, there are only 45 Hiragana characters.
 
2:40 PM
Speaking Korean, however, seemed to be a stiffer challenge for me.
 
@ZhenLin I have that on my want to do list, too. : ) Not just reading though.
 
Hangul is easy enough to pick up. But I said reading comprehension.
 
@ZhenLin So you can speak it already?
 
@JM How many languages can you speak?
 
@Matt: Hah, no. But I'm not as interested in learning to speak.
 
2:45 PM
@JM: How long do these uploads persist? I'm talking about the code you uploaded in an external site in that answer.
 
@Srivatsan Just speaking? I can do Filipino, English, Spanish, some Japanese and Mandarin, and pidgin Greek, German and French.
 
That's a formidable list.. =)
 
@Srivatsan I'm told that it lasts for at least a month since the last download.
@Srivatsan Er, don't be too impressed. Note the adjective "pidgin". :D
 
@JM Have you always been learning languages since childhood? Or did it "start" at a later point? (E.g., when you had to travel around for some reason...)
@JM Oh, I was most impressed with the Filipino, actually. =)
 
@Srivatsan It's first for a reason...
 
2:49 PM
@Srivatsan The first three are from childhood. The others I took upon myself to learn when I needed to travel.
 
@JM Is Spanish spoken there commonly?
 
@Srivatsan Not anymore. In the old days, however, Spanish courses were a requirement in universities. Well, either that or Latin.
 
@JM Latin!? That must have been dead even in Europe for sometime now, no?
@JM How come? I didn't know of a Spanish connection to Phillipines. Or is there one?
 
@Srivatsan I know, right? :) But foreign language requirements in universities can be weird...
@Srivatsan The country was under Spanish rule for 300 years or so.
 
Oops :/ That puts my knowledge of other countries in display. =)
 
2:53 PM
@Srivatsan Yeah, it sucked. :) But hey, whatever must be done to get gold, right?
 
Oh, there was gold? I see...
 
And spices. But mostly gold.
 
Somehow Southeast Asia doesn't strike me as the sort of place to extract precious metals.
 
@ZhenLin Isn't gold and spices the main reason why Spain and Portugal got half of the world each, back then? ;)
(The missionary work was a flimsy excuse.)
 
I dunno, all we had here was tin and rubber, apparently...
 
2:56 PM
@JM Do you know they used to identify potential resources in such new places in those old days?
@ZhenLin We here refers to who?
 
@Srivatsan Well, that's what those explorers were for. Surveying.
 
@Srivatsan That's a puzzle for you. ;)
 
@JM I see. =)
India didn't have too much of such precious metals, I think. Wonder what they were there for.
 
Might be an exaggeration, but I'd say that back then, royal greed was what made them go around the world...
 
Spices, clearly.
 
3:00 PM
Most spices were worth their weight in gold.
 
Isn't saffron more expensive than gold?
 
I can't imagine spices being such a big deal. =)
 
Given that a. they liked meat, and b. refrigeration wasn't due for a few more centuries, the demand for spices was quite high.
@ZhenLin Hence "most". :)
 
But is it still, even now?
 
@ZhenLin I don't know if that's still the case now, though.
I'm not that loaded, but I can at least afford a spice rack... :)
@Sri: also IIRC, the Brits were quite enamored of rubber too, so there's that.
 
3:07 PM
The funny thing is, we talk about private corporations running the world nowadays, but it was literally true back then, what with the British East India Company...
3
 
Quite true.
 
...and the Dutch, to a lesser extent.
Not to mention "trusts".
 
May I break on in with a mathsy question?
 
@Matt Sure! We're the ones being weird, doing history on a math chatroom... :D
 
@Matt Why not?
 
3:10 PM
@Srivatsan Because it's quite off topic at the moment : )
Assume you have a finite open cover $B(\delta_i, x_i)$ for $0 \leq i \leq n$ and you want to pick $\delta := \frac{\min_i \delta_i}{2}$ and cover the space using $\delta$ balls, what's a good way to construct this? I'd like to write down the new cover but for that I'd need to specify the new $x_i$ I guess...
 
@Matt Now it's on-topic. =)
@Matt What do you mean by "construct this"?
 
@Srivatsan I need to add some points with balls around them so that the collection of balls still covers the space.
 
@Matt I'm quite sure what you want to do fails horribly in the discrete metric...
 
So, in effect, you are asking if every $\delta_i$ ball can be covered with a finite number of $\delta$ balls. Is this right?
 
@Srivatsan No I didn't ask "if", I asked "how" : )
 
3:14 PM
This seems relevant. As Zhen pointed out, the statement is not true in general, so the first question should be an "if" :)
 
Hey guys, can someone please help me with finding a bijection between $[0, 1] \cup [2, 3] \cup [4, 5] \cup \cdots$ and $[0, 1]$? I know that they both have the same cardinality because the first one is countable union of continiums and the latter is a continium, but I struggle to find a specific bijection.
 
@Daniil You want a single bijection between the two sets? As opposed to a pair of injections running in either direction?
 
@Daniil Why do you want an explicit bijection? Aren't you happy with the proof you've just provided?
 
@Srivatsan Sorry, I don't understand you. If we have bijection f, then we can construct $f^{-1}$
@ZhenLin I am just curious.
 
@Daniil Sorry. You're right: I just fixed a typo. I meant a pair of injections.
 
3:17 PM
Thanks Srivatsan and Zhen Lin.
 
No continuous bijection exists, since any such must be a homeomorphism.
 
bbl
 
I've also read that it's possible to construct a bijection between $\mathbb{N} \times \mathbb{N}$ and $\mathbb{N}$ as a mathematical formula (it actually says here that it's a polynomial of deg = 2 with coefficients from Q) as opposed to description in English.
@Srivatsan A pair of injections would do too.
I've also read that it's possible to construct a bijection between $\mathbb{N} \times \mathbb{N}$ and $\mathbb{N}$ as a mathematical formula (it actually says here that it's a polynomial of deg = 2 with coefficients from Q) as opposed to description in English.
 
@Daniil: That's the Cantor pairing function, no?
 
The number of votes on this post is mildly amusing.
 
QED
3:28 PM
20?
 
Are we going to complain about the bike shed again? :) To be fair, there are lesser answers that have gotten more votes than that...
 
An instance of the correct use of "lesser"! :o
 
(But yeah, the voting patterns here boggles the mind.)
@ZhenLin Okay, I'm confused. How are people abusing "lesser"?
 
As a comparative for "less", or a synonym for "fewer". It's common around here.
 
Oh. And, eww.
 
3:48 PM
test: Mobi$\ddot{\text{u}}$s
 
@Srivatsan Hey, good eye! I didn't notice that...
 
:2860631 That one was wrong in so many levels... But at least the OP was innovative. =)
 
Sheesh, if only good old Ahlfors wrote in such a way that mere mortals like me could understand as well...
 
Is it complicated? Or notationally messy?
 
Well, what's obvious to Lars Valerian isn't quite obvious to me...
(and it's a hell of a complicated argument for a non-specialist)
 
4:23 PM
(Look at the avatar.)
 
QED
4:39 PM
ha!
 
I'm off. See you guys later!
 
heya
Everyone =D
 
Hey, @N3buchadnezzar
 
Howdy, folks.
 
4:54 PM
I was reading a question about Taylor polynomials
And I was wondering, is there any way to approximate integrals such as
$$ \int_0^{\infty} f(x) dx ?$$
Mmm, perhaps if one were to take the expantion at infinity instead of at zero it could work... Mmm
For an example, how would one approximate the integral
$$ \int_{0}^{\infty} \cfrac{1}{1+x^4} $$ ?
I know you can solve it using countur-Integration. But lets pretend you only want a simple estimate.
 
How about splitting the integral up into $\int_{0}^1 + \int_{1}^\infty$ and develop the integrands using the geometric series?
 
@N3buchadnezzar "Taylor expansion at infinity" is basically the geometric series tb is talking about.
 
I tried reading something about that at wikipedia
Wikipedia is terrible for learning new things in mathematics, atleast to me. If I feel I know a subject to some degree, It is quite good for developing a deeper understading. But If you have absolutely no clue about a specific subject, wikipedia can be a rather tough place to start learning.
 
It's not that bad. I've learned some things from Wikipedia. But it takes effort and time...
 
@N3buchadnezzar - Which absolutely new subject did you try learning from wikipedia?
 
5:08 PM
Contour Integration, and I did look into some fractional calculus.
So we would say that $\frac{1}{1+x^4}$ is the sum of a geometric series, interesting.
 
Sure, but the series is only absolutely convergent in the disc $|x^4 - 1| < 1$.
This is a problem if you want to integrate it out to infinity...
 
Yeah...
 
Well, you would write the integral as $$\int_{0}^1 \sum_{n=0}^\infty (-1)^n x^{4n} + \int_{1}^\infty x^{-4} \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} (-1)^n x^{-4n}$$
 
Hm, disc might be a misnomer. But you get the idea.
@tb Nice trick!
I guess we apply locally uniform convergence to commute the limits.
 
@ZhenLin I don't know if that gives a good approximation, I haven't checked. But I'd say it should work well enough.
(however, I'd very much prefer to do the thing using residues :))
 
5:16 PM
This can't possibly be behaviour we should permit...
 
@ZhenLin nasty...
 
What is ajm?
 
@tb This gives me infinity
 
@ZhenLin I commented; and Adam replied. I really don't know what more to say...
 
@ZhenLin I've used my very first "unwelcome in the community" flag on that.
 
5:23 PM
I tried estimating a few values first, when actually using infinity I get 0.37 a bit away from 1.1
 
The OP looks like a crank, but that is no good reason for that kind of answer.
 
Huh, now that I see that page I have immediately reclassified the OP as a crank.
(I looked at the linked paper and thought it looked like mathematics, at least, even if completely unmotivated.)
 
So how is everyone doing?
 
"Please nominate me for the Abel Prize" redlines my crankometer in and of itself.
3
 
You talk about porton?
 
5:25 PM
Yes.
 
He is a bit strange.
 
I vote to close the question as too localised. It is literally true...
 
@HenningMakholm well, it gives 20 points on the crackpot index
 
What in the what what is this mathematics21.org/abel-prize.html ?
 
I think that he borders a crank, but he's relatively okay for one.
 
5:29 PM
Most great mathematicians are cranks so..
 
No... not really.
 
Heh. "10 points for arguing that a current well-established theory is "only a theory", as if this were somehow a point against it."
 
@tb Well there are different degrees of think you're due a major prize. Max Born thought for decades that he'd been cheated out of the Nobel Prize by Heisenberg and Schrödinger -- which was quite justified and didn't make him a crank. But I'm also sure that he didn't think it a viable way forward to exhort random strangers to nominate him.
 
Also, it is told in stories that Einstein believed he would win a Nobel prize...
 
So, "nominate me for Abel" -- this is not a joke/in-joke?
 
5:36 PM
Might be. What would the punchline be?
 
Hmmm, well, then it would be an example of Poe's law. I say it's too much/elaborate for a joke.
 
Should I leave a comment to the 1+1=2 guy and ask him if my answer is unclear?
 
@HenningMakholm Not every joke has a punchline, no? There are jokes by repetition, for instance. I kind of categorised it that way...
 
My answer about branch points and multifunctions got accepted. I'm not entirely sure the OP understood the entire thing...
(That is to say, acceptance/non-acceptance is non-indicative...)
 
@ZhenLin That is definitely something I agree with. [Unless the joke is that even such elaborate jokes could start to feel funny after some time... =)]
 
5:40 PM
Ye gods! The journal that Adam Smith's answer refers to actually exists -- or at least its website exists. It looks like it was made in 1993.
@AsafKaragila Posting #?
 
Well, this exists, and so does this...
 
@HenningMakholm ?
 
It would be easier to find the "1+1=2 guy" if you provided a link or quoted the posting number.
 
Oh. This question.
 
@HenningMakholm The existence of this journal and its reputation is what makes this answer as nasty as it is...
 
5:43 PM
He's profile indicates that he came several times since I posted the answer; and via quick browsing he is at most 14 years old.
I don't think he got my answer, and I don't care to add more.
 
If you don't care to add more, asking whether he got what's already there is a bit pointless, isn't it?
 
My god.
 
@tb: ...!
 
Well, we were discussing the very same thing in chat recently.
 
5:47 PM
@HenningMakholm But I'm not sure what should I add... it can be helpful if he can point out what is missing.
 
@AsafKaragila My hypothesis is that the Peano arithmetic proof went over his head and he's keeping mum rather than reveal his ignorance.
 
Most things in here go over my head atleast
 
@HenningMakholm And this is a teaching site. It's not a bad thing to reveal your ignorance.
 
My excuse is that I have yet to obtain my first Master Degree =)
 
@AsafKaragila Agree completely, but the OP may not be aware of that.
 
5:49 PM
Quick question: does chat also count as duplicate?
 
@HenningMakholm Which is why a comment can be useful :-)
 
@Asaf: There are lots of things you could add. Like what all the fuss about the Principia Mathematica proof is about. Or why some people might not accept the Peano axioms. etc.
 
@Matt Mostly not.
 
@AsafKaragila Well, yes, if you mean that you don't care to add more unless you get some feedback.
 
@Srivatsan Ok, right then, comment deleted : )
 
5:51 PM
@HenningMakholm I can always add more. I don't have all day long, nor the inclination to write a book.
 
I prefer to be a bit more focused.
 
I think that what the 1+1=2 guy needs most may be a touchy-feely lecture on how axioms are things we choose to work with and symbols just mean what we decide they mean, etc. His main ignorance may be about what it is reasonable to expect from formal proofs in the first place.
 
True. I left a comment, I'll think about it a bit more soon, and perhaps add some more about that.
 
@Henning: Definitely. This is the source of most 1+1=2 questions, really.
 
5:53 PM
I mean, I already have 29 votes... I might as well live up to them ;-)
 
Perhaps also note explicitly that the fact that such-and-such formal system can prove 1+1=2 is an interesting fact about the formal system but does not tell us anything interesting about 1+1=2 itself.
In fact, I'm inclined to think that bringing up the PA proof without such a qualification is a misleading approach. (This also goes for my comment to the question).
 
Yeah. I think I know what I'll add to the answer.
Give me a while to write, then I'll request your input on my addition.
 

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