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12:00 AM
@robjohn What does "community wiki" do?
 
@Potato It makes it so that you don't get reputation for upvotes.
 
OH
 
It donates the answer to the community
 
Well, look at the masterful handwaving in this argument: math.stackexchange.com/questions/95388/geometric-inequality/…
If only $\sqrt 6 -2 > .5$! If only!
 
You get the votes from before it was made CW, but it locks out further rep
 
12:01 AM
Well I made it CW for some reason.
 
@Potato Perhaps a mod could change that for you if you did it accidentally.
 
Nah it's fine.
Look at my beautiful (ugly) answer!
Don't let the fact that it doesn't quite work bother you.
@robjohn if you see an easy way to make that last part rigorous, by all means edit it in.
 
@Srivatsan I need help getting this integral. \int_0^pi {\dfrac{1-\cos mx}{1-\cos x}dx}
 
12:29 AM
Happy new (Gregorian) year, everyone.
 
@HenningMakholm Good call, Julian day starts in 11.5 hours
@KannappanSampath Decided not to put it on the main site?
@HenningMakholm Happy New Year!
 
@robjohn But there's 13 days to the Julian new year...
 
@HenningMakholm That's true, too. So it is definitely good that you specified Gregorian :-)
 
I don't think "Gregorian" is an appropriate antonym to the astronomical practice of counting a day from noon to noon. After all the Julian day number is not named for Caesar either.
 
I am used to using the JDN without regard to year start or end. EG it is now 2455927.528044
or it was a bit ago :-)
 
12:42 AM
Yeah, but floor(JDN) changes its value at noon.
 
@HenningMakholm Indeed, that is what I meant in my first reply to your HNY comment.
 
Correcting myself: Wikipedia states that the Julian date is indeed named (indirectly) for Caesar -- in contrast to the popular myth that claims the correct explanation is a myth.
 
@HenningMakholm I get dizzy just reading that.
@Henning: for some reason, which I am still trying to determine, Didier did not like my answer about Stirling. He has not replied to my most recent comment.
I think everything is in order, but perhaps there is some detail left out. However, I include more detail than Byron does.
I don't know for sure, but I think that Didier is the one who downvoted.
At least he is the only one to have raised an objection.
Time to walk the dog. Happy New Year to those whose meridian passes midnight before I return.
 
I'm afraid the answer is beyond the kind of analysis I know how to fake my way through.
 
@HenningMakholm I will see what Didier says if he replies to my comment
 
1:09 AM
If I want to show L is a closed subspace of K, why does it suffice to show that every closed subset of L is closed in K?
The proof shows that every closed subset of L is closed in K, and that if A is closed in K, $A\cap L$ is closed in $L$. Why does this work?
 
1:27 AM
Kannappan: What do you need this integral for? $\int_0^{\pi} {\dfrac{1-\cos mx}{1-\cos x}dx}$
 
2:25 AM
@Potato: Because L is a closed subset of L. :p
 
Yeah, actually he was going for the subspace topology, which is why I was confused.
 
2:43 AM
Suggestions, criticisms welcome: math.stackexchange.com/a/95528/13425.
 
I haven't gotten to your answer yet, but there's an interesting misparse in the question: He wants to prove lim_{x->2} (x^3=8) -- not the correct (lim_{x->2} x^3)=8.
 
I see =)
 
Also, the quantifier on x seems to be missing from his definition of limit, which can't be helping his understanding either.
 
@HenningMakholm Perhaps the book is using the convention that missing quantifiers are universal.
 
Well, yes, but that doesn't tell us where in the quantifier hierarchy it should bind.
It's rather essential that the delta you produce must not depend on x.
On the other hand there are x's on both sides of the \Rightarrow, and these have to be bound by the same quantifier.
 
2:52 AM
Oh, let me revise that: missing quantifiers are (a) universal, (b) placed in the innermost position.
I agree that the definition should make it explicit so that students are not confused, or worse yet, misled.
 
QED
Ih ave my own way to prove this but don't think posting it would help
 
@QED The limit question? What way?
 
QED
I prove that you can just evaluate the function at a
for a class of functions that contains x^3
 
@QED You are saying that the cubic polynomials are continuous everywhere. Right?
I guess that wouldn't help the OP because this is likely a pedagogical exercise in epsilon-delta. It's important NOT to skim through that lightly. =)
 
@Srivatsan But wouldn't the "innermost position" yield: (forall x. 0<|x-a|<delta) => (forall x. |x³-8|<epsilon) ... which is always true because the LHS is false for every delta?
 
QED
2:57 AM
that's not what I meant
 
Playing the devil's advocate, of course.
 
I see. Why do you break up the proposition into two parts and add "forall x" twice?
 
@Srivatsan Because that's "more innermost" than putting the quantifier outside the implication.
 
I see. I am not sure what to say =)
 
@Srivatsan I think you said the right thing up here.
... assuming you meant that quantifiers should not be left implicit.
 
3:10 AM
Yes, especially in an introductory textbook, it is bad practice.
 
Quite. Students at this level are still struggling to learn how the order of quantifiers work -- how the burden of proof is distributed and so forth. Requiring them to do the same all while figuring out what the "obviously right" place to imagine an implicit quantifier is just mean.
 
And I did not even touch upon that in my answer... I hope I will not have to considering that it's already bloated =)
 
Nice answer now that I've skimmed it, btw.
 
Thanks.
 
QED
3:31 AM
I define $F$ to be the set of functions such that if $f \in F$ then $\lim_{x \rightarrow a} f(x) = f(a)$. Given that we can prove the theorem in the following way:

> $2^3 = 8$ proves that $\lim_{x \rightarrow 2} x^3 = 8$ since $x^3 \in F$.

To see that $x^3 \in F$ I can prove that $x \in F$ and that if $f, g \in F$ then $fg \in F$.
 
I read your definition as continuity (or a variation of it).
 
QED
continuity is irrelevant
 
$\lim_{x \to a} f(x) = f(a)$ is the definition of continuity. How is it irrelevant?
 
QED
You're calling it continuity to make it sound difficult and confusing
I've written everything down that's needed though
(also my def. of continuity is to do with inverse image of open sets)
 
On the contrary, just because you avoid the term for some inexplicable reason, I don't see why I should not see it that light.
In any case, let's keep this point aside. Let me read further.
Right, I read it.
 
"anyway the answer was accepted...and thanks again. you rock." -- The answer's not accepted. What happened?
 
@Srivatsan It doesn't look as if the answer was ever formally accepted. But Gerry rocks nevertheless :)
 
I think the OP accepted it in their heart.
It's so hilarious. Sometimes in response to us urging them to accept answers, the OP replies something to the effect "Yes, I wholeheartedly accept the previous answers." Wtf?
tb: "Unfortunately, as intuitive it might seem, this statement is neither precise nor correct." -- Can you check the grammar in this sentence?
@robjohn You too. Can you check the grammar in the previous sentence? I suspect something is off.
 
@Srivatsan ... as intuitive as...?
 
"Unfortunately, as intuitive as it might seem, this statement is neither precise nor correct."
 
3:56 AM
as intuitive as it seems, it is blah?
 
@Srivatsan I think it works about the same way as accepting Jesus as your lord and savior.
Perhaps future e-book editions of the Bible should come with a green checkmark you can click.
5
 
Now that you point it out, it makes sense. I cannot seem to go back and find out what exactly my confusion was.
Thanks, all of you.
 
I hate to change the subject, but does anyone know an online tool for computing Groebner bases?
I can't seem to find one. I keep getting directed to one called OGB, but the site does not function properly.
 
That ought to be on-topic on the main site.
 
QED
What are Groebner bases for
 
4:07 AM
@QED They are a type of basis for polynomial ideals
@QED They let you do certain things with multivariate polynomials that you can do with univariate polynomials, such as polynomial division
 
QED
cool
 
@AlexBecker I think Sage has some Gröbner basis tools, and you can use that online.
It's probably wrapping some existing tool; not sure what.
 
@DylanMoreland Thanks a bunch, I didn't realize you could use sage online.
 
Ah, it wraps Singular and some other library called gfan that I didn't know about.
No problem.
 
4:27 AM
Aha! I thought I missed the stroke of midnight due to the editing. Apparently not.
 
who was that one guy who argued about the meaning of mathematical symbols, and can anyone link me to the thread?
 
Doug?
Bleh, concision is not my strong point, it seems.
I'm somehow amazed every time I see my answer =)
 
Here's Wishing you a happy and prosperous new year to all !
 
4:45 AM
Slow night here. Going to bed. Happy new year to UTC+0500ff.
 
5:01 AM
Happy new year math.se
 
QED
hi
 
@QED hi QED
 
Hey everyone.
 
@KorganRivera Hi Korg
Slow night on math.SE
 
QED
5:19 AM
Do you know about fractals?
 
@QED A little. What do you want to know?
 
QED
I wanted to study julia sets
 
@QED Can't help you much there.
 
QED
what fractals did you do?
 
Well, I have studied only a few specific fractals. But I know how to compute fractal dimensions and a few other things.
I prefer algebra or dynamics to be honest
 
QED
5:39 AM
I think this is a bit different than the hausdorff computations, but I haven't been able to find out much yet
 
6:00 AM
Minus two hours and counting!!
for PST :-)
 
@robjohn Minus one for me.
 
It's close, either way :-)
 
PST here for me. : )
 
@AlexBecker MST?
 
@robjohn Indeed, though only because I'm on vacation. :)
 
6:03 AM
@AlexBecker Ah, Denver would be my guess, based only on population clustering :-)
 
@robjohn No, but close. Dillon, CO.
@robjohn I assume LA then?
 
@AlexBecker I got the state right, at least. Yes, Los Angeles.
I believe it's visible in my profile.
 
@robjohn Well I didn't cheat.
@robjohn Plus it says West Hills, and I don't know that's in LA.
 
@AlexBecker :-) I don't consider that cheating, but I haven't looked at your profile, either.
 
hi guys , how do i simplify sqrt{2}^sqrt{2} ?
 
6:07 AM
@AkramHassan why do you think it can be simplified?
 
@AkramHassan Hi Akra, not sure how to simplify it much
 
QED
Hello robjohn
 
@AkramHassan I seem to recall it being transcendental
 
@QED Happy New Year!
 
QED
Happy new year
 
6:08 AM
$\sqrt{2}^{\sqrt{2}}$
 
well , (2^0.5)^2^0.5 = 2 ^ (2 * 0.5 * 0.5) = 2 ^ (0.5) , which is wrong !
 
QED
what do you mean
 
my attempt to simplify it @QED
 
QED
what do you mean by simplify?
 
@Akram: do you have the MathJax bookmark installed?
 
6:12 AM
no :( , should i ?
 
@AkramHassan It is in fact transcendental en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelfond%E2%80%93Schneider_constant so you can't simplify it into something more workable.
 
@AkramHassan Definitely. See here
 
Does the MathJax bookmark work in chrome also? I only added it to FF.
 
alright , thank you Alex , than you robjohn , i will check both MathJax and the link
 
@yunone I have heard differing things regarding Chrome. I think there are some who have installed it, but some have had problems, and I am not sure of the nature of the problems.
 
6:18 AM
@robjohn Ok thanks, in that case I'll just hold off from it then.
 
@yunone I don't think that it hurts anything in those cases that it doesn't work, though.
I wish someone who has it working in Chrome would post how they installed it.
 
Let's see if this works, $\varphi\colon G\to H$, $\int_a^b f(x)\ dx$.
It seems to be working fine. I just copied and dragged the code to the bookmark bar in Chrome and it works the same.
 
QED
Do you think this is worthwhile ? math.stackexchange.com/a/95534/16697
I can delete it
I just get sick of these "prove lim P(x) = P(a)" problems so prove them all in one go
 
@QED Looks like a fine answer to me.
 
QED
ok thanks
 
6:29 AM
@QED +1'd
 
QED
I wasn't sure about it after talking about it here
but since I had typed it out thought might as well add it
 
6:42 AM
Is it worth it to type out really long answers?
 
QED
I do it for myself
I forgot how to prove that fg is continuous when f and g are
so writing this answer helped me
 
I feel the same way often
But this answer I'm completing now is a monster
 
QED
I'd like to get into some new maths though
new to me
 
Like what?
 
QED
I dont know
 
6:46 AM
Have you had any algebra? (as in modern/abstract algebra)
 
QED
a bit
 
Like what?
 
QED
I didn't learn to use things like exact sequences and stuff
but I learned a bit of the basic definitions for categories and things
 
groups and rings too?
 
QED
yes
 
6:48 AM
that's a good start
Have you studied any algebraic geometry?
 
QED
I don't think so
I may know a tiny bit like projective coordinates
 
well I think its a fascinating area anyway, so that may be a good thing for you to study
there are some pretty good resources online too, such as the lecture notes of Ravi Vakil
 
QED
thanks - I'll look at these notes
Does this work to solve some interesting diophantine equations?
this theory
 
I believe so, but the applications of algebraic geometry to number theory come mainly through Dedekind domains, which I haven't studied.
 
QED
cool
 
6:54 AM
Be warned, they're 639 pages.
 
QED
that's great - I found this math.stanford.edu/~vakil/0506-216 but I guess that's something else
 
that's the site for the course with which the notes are associated
but an old version
Well, I just finished the longest answer of my life.
 
QED
scary stuff!!
 
QED
It's great to have explicit computations but I can't follow it since I don't have the background [yet?]
 
7:07 AM
Hey Dylan! I used sage like you suggested, and it did the trick. math.stackexchange.com/questions/95217/…
@QED It's commutative algebra, which is closely tied in with algebraic geometry
@QED In order to follow Vakil's notes you need a little commutative algebra (exact sequences included) but not too much. I'd definitely say its worthwhile.
 
QED
ah
well, I can certainly fill that gap
 
@QED It's fulfilling. I have to say that my commutative algebra class was both my best and hardest class ever.
 
QED
I like that :D
 
@tb Ein glückliches neues Jahr!
 
8:13 AM
@Srivatsan : )
 
hi all
 
Hello
 
@RajeshD Happy New Year!
 
Oh, Happy New Year to y'all. :)
 
@JM: Happy New Year!
 
8:21 AM
Back at you, rob. :)
 
@JM @robjohn Happy new year to you both
 
@AlexBecker Happy New Year.
There have been some fireworks in our area, but they seem to have ceased.
 
You too, @Alex. You're on the EST timezone, yes?
 
@robjohn There were some right outside my window, even though they're illegal year-round here.
 
@AlexBecker They are illegal here unless permitted by the county.
none of these fireworks have permits, I am sure.
 
8:31 AM
naturally
@JM No, MST. People just shot lots of them off, so they lasted till almost 1.
 
8:46 AM
@Matt I haven't touched a video game console in years. :D
 
QED
9:13 AM
hi
0
Q: How do you determine if a number is prime or composite?

SachindraIs there any way to decipher, manually of course, whether a (large enough) number is a prime?

1
Q: How can I determine the number is prime number?

chimpanzeeSuppose I don't know that the number 1937923859 is prime number or not and I don't have any calculator. but I want to determine that the number is prime number or not. How can I do that? Added Sorry for my poor explanation. I mean, more precisely, not using anything but only your hand.(maybe bra...

What's with these stupid question
 
@JM Too bad : )
Beatles Rock Band can be quite fun.
 
QED
I like John Lennon
 
I don't know him that well.
 
QED
heh
 
But I like their music, at least their old stuff.
 
9:48 AM
lol, the guy has two accounts: "chimpanzee" and "orangutang"
-5
A: How can I determine the number is prime number?

orangutanWhy does not anyone use this formula? $$p_n=6\left \lfloor \frac{p_n}{6}+\frac{1}{2} \right \rfloor+\left ( -1 \right )^\left \lfloor \frac{p_n}{3} \right \rfloor$$ It takes less than 3minutes to determine that 1937923859 is prime.

 
10:39 AM
@Daniil His/her impatience is annoying.
 
QED
Why do people keep asking this question?
Isn't it obvious? Test every possible factor.
or just google for "prime test" or something
 
As you know, trial division can be a bit inefficient for big numbers. :)
On the other hand, the guy seems to want to do it by hand, and the numbers he's interested in are not too huge, so trial division might still be good enough for him
 
QED
this "by hand" thing annoys me too
What possible circumstance is there where you'd need to test 10 digit primes by hand...
 
@QED That I definitely agree with. In this day and age, it's quite unrealistic (yes, I think the classroom is unrealistic :) ).
 
QED
but on the good side I was able to write another answer for a question here
even though it was sort of questionable whether it is useful to the person asking ..
 
10:50 AM
Heh.
 
QED
The shop has some 2 meter long box of jaffa cakes
for really really low price
but if I buy that I would get sick
$$\binom{n}{m} \equiv \binom{\lfloor\frac{n}{p}\rfloor}{\lfloor\frac{m}{p}\rfloor}\binom{n_0}{m_0} \pmod{p} ,$$ cool
looks like there's a bug, mathjax wasn't parsing the pmod correctly
 
11:55 AM
has anybody seen Jonas?
 
QED
he was on this chat yesterday
 
@QED: happy New Year, how is 2012?
 
QED
happy new year
I got woken up by all the fireworks
 
icic ))
 
Is anyone familiar with algebraic topology, specifically some of the material in bott/tu, in chat?
 
QED
12:01 PM
sorry
no
 
@Gigili Danke, Dir auch!
 
Well, can anyone tell me, in broad terms, why knowing about cohomology is important?
 
Look, he's got an acceptance rate of 100% now : )
 
Bott/tu seem to restrict themselves to computing the cohomology groups of $S^n$ initially, which seems rather boring and weak.
 
QED
I don't know anything about cohomology
 
12:11 PM
What's so difficult about Urysohn's lemma? This is the second time recently that people complain about it... (in other words: if you're thinking of Urysohn's lemma as difficult, then abstract harmonic analysis will be painful)
 
QED
I don't really understand the point of this topology
 
In general, I think it's bad practice to ask questions of the form "How do I do X without Y" when Y is something that can be learned in 15 minutes.
 
QED
It can be really frustrating when people don't want to use Y sometimes
 
I know. There's a reason we proved Y.
Not just to ignore it.
 
@QED I'd say it depends. Sometimes attempts to find roads less traveled can be useful.
 
12:17 PM
@Potato That's what I was trying to say...
@Potato This is a bit hard to answer in short terms. Maybe this thread helps a bit?
One of my new year's resolutions: tell my neighbor that hovering three times a day is a bit much. Especially when you're listening to Bryan Adams (or any other music for that matter)...
 
@t.b. That's all about homology, not cohomology. Also, I find it disturbing that de Rham cohomology isn't strong enough to tell a sphere from a mobius strip. I seem to be missing the point though; what other things can be done with it besides trying to classify surfaces?
@t.b. "hovering"?
 
@tb Wait, what? Are houses there wall-to-wall, or is your neighbor just really loud?
 
@Potato hoovering: vacuum cleaning. Those machines that suck up the dust
 
Ah, you were missing an o there, and I was confused.
 
@JM He's in the flat above mine. Well, I don't like the sound of the hoovering machine. And I don't like Bryan Adams. But listening to both at the same time is torture...
 
12:24 PM
Oh, Hoover. :) That's a brand I haven't seen in a while...
 
QED
Is there a wiki software with the same good live mathjax editing support?
 
@QED I would think it's possible to modify extant wiki software to support MathJax...
 
@JM That's the term I learned in school. What would be the proper word to use?
 
QED
possible yes
 
After all, it's only a matter of inserting a piece of JS in the right places.
 
QED
12:26 PM
the live editing is really nice though
so you can see the LaTeX rendered as you type
 
@tb Oh, it's a fine word. :) It's just that I remember a time where all the vacuum cleaners were Hoovers, and now...
...everything's Japanese. Or Chinese.
 
QED
why are japanese lettters so complicated
 
Ah, the $\varepsilon$-$\delta$ answer of mine is my three-hundredth here... =)
 
@Potato Well, it's a powerful invariant and de Rham cohomology is pretty easy to compute. Besides, differential forms arise everywhere. For instance: Morera's theorem is the statement that a function is holomorphic if and only if $f dz$ is closed. Or: a vector field on a simply connected set is a gradient field if and only if it is rotation free, and so on.
 
QED
12:42 PM
What does "powerful invariant" mean
 
@QED They are actually not so complicated if you compare them to Chinese writing. One reason why they "have to be so complicated" is that they contain more information per character than Roman letters. What this means is that you can read much faster i.e. take in more information in less time than when reading Roman letters.
 
QED
I see
 
Another reason is that beautiful letters are part of Japanese culture.
The don't want to use fugly letters. : )
@QED What made you say that, anyway?
 
QED
Since it came up
 
@QED Where?
 
12:50 PM
@Matt I like the "fugly" word =)
 
Another reason is that many words in Japanese have the exact same reading. For example "hashi" can either mean "bridge" or "chop sticks". Now if you try to read a children's book in Japanese it wil be "simplified": meaning mostly written in their alphabet. As there are no spaces separating words you are facing two problems:
one is that you're struggling to distinguish the end of a word and the second one is that you don't know which word was intended (although that might be clear from the context).
 
QED
do you know japanese?
 
Some.
 
QED
how long have you studied it?
 
About 5 years more or less but it's just a hobby.
 
QED
12:52 PM
thats cool
 
@tb Wear earplugs?
@QED It comes in handy when going there for holidays. : )
 
@Matt Ooh, you've folks there?
 
QED
all the boys I know who went to japan came back with a wife
 
@Matt Three times a day?
 
@JM Folks as in friends, yes : ) No relatives.
 
12:55 PM
@tb No, all the time.
 
@tb 8 days a week.
 
You're not being helpful, you know...
 
Well spotted : )
 
I don't know about you guys, but I hate having anything stuffed in my ears...
 
QED
12:56 PM
I only notices from being primed earlier
 
@tb Why not 3 times a day?
@Srivatsan : D
 
...I'd kick the guy's door first before wearing earplugs all day.
 
QED
@JM, it could the lesser of two annoyances
oh that works too, lol
 
@JM Me too that's why I got myself a pair of ear protectors that you wear to practice shooting.
Unfortunately that's even less comfy than earplugs. Although much more effective. So I wouldn't recommend that.
 
QED
kanji can both look futuristic and ancient.
 
12:59 PM
Futuristic -- how so? // At least I never had that feeling before.
 

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