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9:00 PM
Samaria?
 
nah, i said sumeria by mistake, thinking of sumer
 
ich nicht denken "Canadia" ist ein guter witz.
 
As in, samaritans?
 
Here's a problem I want to answer.
 
yah
 
9:00 PM
@Semiclassical Nah those guys are different I think
 
Akiva, aren't you german?
Or does your last name deceive me.
 
@Dodsy I usually say "Canadia" since it makes more sense
Canada - Canadans or Canadia - Canadians
 
no i'm pretty sure the samaritans are from samaria
 
@Dodsy Nah, Jewish
 
The problem ls how to end sentences wlth a polnt when a polnt ls lnflnltely small wlthout people not seeing the perlod After all, how are we to use punctuatlon based upon polnts? Plus "l" looks like "l" because the letter "eye" has a polnt above lt, and you cannot see a polnt
 
9:01 PM
@AkivaWeinberger Oh, cool :)
 
Mine was more like: What does an American call the two countries north of Mexico?
 
@Daminark -____-
 
@Daminark So what about the Netherlands then?
 
@MikeMiller Just looked it up. 450 are in Holon (near Tel Aviv), and 350 are in Qiryat Luza, in the West Bank.
 
Dutchland?
 
9:02 PM
Specifically, the north bit of the West Bank, which I think is Samaria.
 
@AkivaWeinberger There are 800 Samaritans?
 
And "50 in other Israeli cities."
 
"America." "And the other?", "Not America!"
 
850 isn't so many
 
everyone please check out the edit to my earlier post
 
9:02 PM
@MikeMiller Yeah apparently
It's not a very big group of people
 
i would have guessed a larger diaspora
 
@TheGreatDuck That's a lot of things to stress about.
 
> Total population
777 (2015)
 
when you say samaritan does that refer specifically to the religious group that shows up in the new testament?
 
^ Wikipedia. Math doesn't quite work out, but eh
 
9:03 PM
@Dodsy well thlnk about lt Polnts cannot be seen
 
what are polnts
 
@MikeMiller I dunno but they're an "ethnoreligious group"
 
ah
"Hard to classify"
 
lnflnltely short lengths
 
@Krijn shrugs
 
9:04 PM
I think I saw this in QI one time, that the good samaritan in the bible isn't explicitly samaritan?
 
@Dodsy wut
 
I like Jewish culture, I find it interesting.
 
wlth no wldth or helght
 
?!
you mean a point?
 
I'd make a riff on "not seeing your point" but
 
9:05 PM
you said "POLNT"
 
what goes above an "i"?
 
OK, yeah, so Samaria is Samaritans @Semi
 
a point
and points are infinitely small
so you cannot see them
 
Well....
 
9:05 PM
hence the joke!
 
A point is that which has no part.
 
Heh, fun fact:
 
I wrote all my sentences as if the points were too small to see
 
properly i doubt samaria is a recognized region
like, today
 
The Turkish alphabet has two 'i's, one with a dot and one without.
 
9:06 PM
Via euclid's definition of a point.
 
So you can get a capital i with a dot and a lowercase i without
 
so "point" should look like "polnt"
 
i got yelled at for writing a Turkish name with the wrong i on a poster
 
Depends who you're talking to
 
Iı and İi
@MikeMiller Yeah, they're pronounced differently
 
9:06 PM
Yankı Lekili
 
@MikeMiller what name?
 
how do I pronounce that?
 
@Dodsy yeah, I was referring to Euclid's. I just couldn't quite remember the exact phrasing. Thanks.
 
Isn't that just a top-down !?
 
i think samaria is actually used as a term for a geographical region by the israeli govt
 
9:07 PM
Yahnk-uh Lenkeelee I think
 
polnt = point where the dot above the i is a point.
 
"Since 1967, Samaria has been used by Israeli officials to refer to the north of the West Bank, as the administrative Judea and Samaria Area"
 
anyways....
 
If you talked with someone from a settlement I wonder if they'd describe the area as such
 
@TheGreatDuck what's your point.
 
9:07 PM
Huh, so it's a legal definition as well
 
@EricSilva Yeah
 
One definition of euclids that I find hard is "A straight line is a line which lies evenly with the points on itself"
 
The Israeli government doesn't actually officially call it "the West Bank" at all
Only "Judea and Samaria"
(Yehuda veShomron)
 
interesting
 
I like euclid's elements, a lot of people have a hard time understanding it.
 
9:08 PM
@Dodsy when or if you lean non-Euclidean geometry you'll find that the vagueness of that definition is vital.
 
that's because it's hard to understand archaic things @Dodsy
 
I suspect quite a few people dispute their right to unilaterally name the region
 
@Dodsy "The problem ls how to end sentences wlth a polnt when a polnt ls lnflnltely small wlthout people not seeing the perlod After all, how are we to use punctuatlon based upon polnts? Plus "l" looks like "l" because the letter "eye" has a polnt above lt, and you cannot see a polnt"
tis a joke about punctuation
and how we use dots and call them points.
 
@EricSilva Eh, I didn't really have a hard time with it, but I read specific excerpts.
 
sorry if it confused you. I figured people would get it.
 
9:10 PM
I found that the interesting thing with euclids elements
Is that when it defines say a point or a line
 
@TheGreatDuck I provıded you wıth a lowercase dotless ı
 
i mean i like greek stuff so ive read it very thoroughly, idt it's hard from a mathematical perspective but from a historical perspective it's pretty annoying
 
@Dodsy negate the parallel postulate. See what happens. I can think of at least 3 surfaces for which that all works. I can state with 90% confidence that you stand on one of them.
 
we all know what those things are, but the definitions are going to be a little difficult to understand.
So people get hung up on that
 
@Dodsy Yeah it does so in a very vague way
 
9:11 PM
instead of just being like oh I know what that is
 
@AkivaWeinberger dodsy was confused by the joke, which was more of a random jest than a serious query.
 
@Dodsy reading the math in greek though, very hard going
 
*Okey
 
their terminology was hard to follow
 
9:11 PM
*Okay
 
ʎǝʞo
 
@EricSilva lmfao I wouldn't be able to do that.
I found reading archimedes to be severely difficult though
 
@EricSilva nah. Euclid set down a pretty solid foundation. One just have to think deeply about what they meant. It's like bad MSE posts. You just have to read between the lines and mentally revise it as you read. If you can do that, you learn quite a bit.
 
i had a big history of math phase where i learned attic greek to read elements and conics mainly
 
In Hebrew, the word for "Greece" is יון
 
9:13 PM
they thought about math weird back then
 
Have you read on the circle and cylinder book 1?
by archimedes
 
i never read all of eulicds elements
 
felt like I was pulling teeth
 
My history of mathematics class was one of the most fun classes I had
 
@TheGreatDuck i literally never said he didnt put down a solid foundation
 
9:14 PM
I love math history.
 
but I proved by hand some of his first book and analyzed some of the axioms. To try to think of non-Euclidean geometries.
 
hm.
 
@EricSilva ironically, you'll never believe what geometry breaks the 4th postulate. It's kind of hilarious, in fact.
The surface that breaks the 4th postulate is 3D modelling.
ironically, that's arguably more famous than spherical geometry
 
Which one's the fourth?
 
right angles and isometries
 
9:15 PM
book 1 is hard
 
@Bala Help me decide which book to read next
 
All right angles are equal?
 
if you shift a right angle along an isometry the angle remains a right anfle
 
Finished one this evening
 
yup
you have to read between the lines otherwise it becomes a smart alek "you just defined equality"
 
9:16 PM
@EricSilva dork
 
I'd like to read all of the elements one day
 
@Krijn what do you want
 
@AkivaWeinberger take a folded piece of paper. Shift an angle on one side so that the vertex is on the fold. You just obtained an angle less than 90 degrees.
 
@EricSilva You're a very smart and talented man, Eric.
 
err wait
a right triangle
 
9:17 PM
A book.
 
put the non-right angle on the verex
 
what kind
 
@Dodsy, it's a very interesting subject, but there are better ways to learn math than to go through the ancient stuff
 
the trick is that one leg pops off the surface
 
unless you just wanna learn history for history's sake, which imo is a good goal
 
9:17 PM
@EricSilva Yeah, I kinda went through a phase where I thought it'd be better to learn from the sources.
 
@MikeMiller I just finished a long book, so I would like to go for something short, maybe a classic
 
it really isn't a good way to learn in the sciences
 
Have been thinking about finally reading Hamlet, because it is referred so often
 
Got hung up on archimedes, then went to diophantus
 
floer homology groups in yang-mills theory is pretty short and was an instant classic
 
9:18 PM
Or should I go for the big dog, which I have ignored too long, War and Peace
 
better to read hamlet before you see a stage performance imo
 
then got hung up on descartes because it's basically archimedes
 
i'm trying to get a feel for your taste so i can recommend something you wont hate
 
Hi people
 
Faulkner +++
Steinbeck ++
 
9:19 PM
no
 
@Krijn Have you read any other tolstoy books?
Anna Karenina is one of my favourites.
 
Death of Iwan Iljitsj
Dostoyevski +++
 
War and Peace is ok
 
the crying of lot 49, by thomas pynchon
 
This is the first I've ever heard of death of iwan.
I am having a hard time getting started on war and peace.
 
9:19 PM
@MikeMiller Very good one! I forgot I wanted to read this
 
i'm big into pomo but i don't want to push a faulkner fan too hard over the border
 
I stole my copy of Anna karenina from my college library 4 years ago
right before I dropped out.
that's right, I'm a felon.
everybody judge me!
 
judges
 
I recently read Hard to be a God by the Strugatsky brothers and liked it
 
9:24 PM
@Daminark :/
Does uchicago have nice old books?
 
Surely
 
noice.
I love books.
 
@MikeMiller I'm scared to start with post-modernism
 
start with the crying of lot 49
 
Start with Nova Express lol
 
9:26 PM
Is Howl post-modernism?
I liked Howl
 
I like Howl
a lot
I think it's early postmodernism
 
Vonnegut?
I don't get why everybody loves Vonnegut
 
haven't read
 
I dont like Vonnegut
but anyway, apparently $\int \dfrac{\mathrm dx}{\sqrt(x(1-x))} = \pi$. why?
he has interesting ideas but i dont find his writing enjoyable
 
Okay, last question, Things Fall Apart or something by James Baldwin
Orrrrr, some actual historian, like say Suetonius or Herodotus
I always order books per three so I need to choose
 
9:34 PM
things fall apart is great, james baldwin is great
herodotus is like a protohistorian
very very fun to read
 
I have heard of Things Fall Apart
 
The title is very strong
 
it's part of a trilogy
which are all quite good imo
 
I have heard of a lot of things by Chinua Achibe
did I spell that right?
 
no one wants to help me with the integral? :( Im sure its been asked before but i dont knojw how to search for it
 
9:38 PM
chinua achebe i think?
 
@Krijn Have you read Joseph Conrad?
 
No
 
achebe had some bad things to say about conrad loll
 
@GFauxPas I tried Wolfram but it said "no, is not pi"
 
@Eric that's what reminded me of it
he dissed Heart of Darkness
 
9:40 PM
oh, hm
 
his essay is p good @Balarka
 
@Balarka, did you ever read the Paris Review interviews?
Or some of them
 
sorry, had the sign of the radicand off
maybe i cna fix it now
 
Nope, none
 
9:54 PM
How should I answer this question?
Is powerset actually an important concept in analysis, algebra, geometry? — brittany 4 mins ago
To be honest, I don't really see the $\cal P$ symbol come up a lot outside of set theory
 
No, but it's probably the first time you encounter the * of all sub* of something which you probably encounter in some general form sooner or later
So, for abstractness maybe?
 
It's the easiest way to create a big set fast?
 
I just wrote, "On occasion."
 
Hmm, this is neat: "any finite Boolean algebra is isomorphic to the Boolean algebra of the power set of a finite set. "
 
Seems legit
 
10:07 PM
Do people read Musil?
outside of german language space
 
What are the operations, $\cup$ and $\cap$?
(I don't 100% remember the definition of a Boolean space)
 
I dunno, I stole that from the wiki page on powerset
Though another way to understand its significance is to interpret each subset as a binary number
 
is there a quick and dirty way to express the residues of $\dfrac 1 {(1+z^2)^m}$ as a function of $m$? say $m$ is a positive integer
 
yes, if $m\neq1$ all residues are $0$
 
In which case the size question becomes: How many numbers can you represent using n binary digits?
 
10:12 PM
oh, that's actually not good, maybe I cant use residues on this: $\displaystyle \int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} \frac {dx} {(1+x^2)^m}$
 
:/
 
excuse me what I said was really really wrong
 
:O
 
And the power set of that in turn would be found by taking all those numbers, using each of them to label a binary digit, and asking how many numbers can be represented using that set
 
you have $\frac1{(1+z^2)^m}= \frac1{(i+z)^m}\frac1{(z-i)^m}$
 
10:15 PM
(The image I took from Wikipedia)
 
the residue at $-i$ for example is the $m-1$ derivative of $1/(i+z)^m$ at $i$
with some prefactor $2\pi i$ or something
 
the prefactor is, uhh..
limit as z approaches $i$?
let me find the formula
 
The generalized product rule should be handy if you want to differentiate that
 
power rule you mean?
 
Power rule and chain rule looks good
 
10:19 PM
No.
 
well here's the full question
 
Generalized product rule is $(abcd)'=abcd'+abc'd+ab'cd+a'bcd$ I think
but for arbitrary lengths
 
but for residues, only one of the factors is not a constant at a time?
 
Oh, many derivatives, not many factors.
 
10:21 PM
@Semiclassical I'm starting to see now that the issue is the sheer bookkeeping. I need to determine more efficient ways to update the 3D model produced during runtime as things change...
 
might just be "too ambitious"
 
thanks guys
 
The $(abcd)'$ thing can also be written as $abcd(\frac{a'}a+\frac{b'}b+\frac{c'}c+\frac{d'}d)$, by the way
 
How much of the model can actually / typically change during runtime?
 
10:24 PM
Or, rather, $\frac{(abcd)'}{abcd}=\frac{a'}a+\frac{b'}b+\frac{c'}c+\frac{d'}d$.
 
@akiva yep. All hail the log derivative
 
Which makes sense when you realize that that's just the derivative of $\ln(abcd)=\ln(a)+\ln(b)+\ln(c)+\ln(d)$.
(Sniped?)
 
Still works in generalized settings where the natural log doesn't exist (like polynomial rings and the like), which is always nice
 
@Semiclassical it's not like that
you cannot just change a portion of a 3d model
you have to recreate it from scratch
that's costly
 
10:25 PM
Well, I mean
 
It's nice when there's a proof of some theorem that works in a specific setting, where the theorem can be extended to more generalized settings (even if the proof can't)
 
Do all of the relevant coordinates change?
 
I'm not talking about that
I'm talking about making the graphical model from the block structure
when the block types change that blocks texture mapping has to change so it looks different
which means every frame has to rebuild the model
 
Hmm. So there's no useful way to tell it "build up everything like it just was with these exceptions"
 
no
it would be more useful to just reach in and change the texture coordinates
but there's no way to get any of the vertices in 3D models like that... :p
they're just "models"
you're not supposed to know how they work
I think I figured out a trick though
 
10:30 PM
Well, you'd know what the limitations are
 
there's a much easier way to do it
only rebuild the model when things change
 
Is there a movable viewpoint involved, or just fixed?
 
that's not relevant
the issue is the block types changing
i.e. ice changes to water so I have change the texture mapping in that region
you know those stone squares? Those are supposed to let things flow into them like water or lava or what-have-you
 
Kinda is. If you've got a movable perspective, then not every square needs to get generated. Just the ones they need to see
 
uuuh
that would be really expensive
 
10:35 PM
But I may not be understanding you correctly
 
you are
 
Hi!
What's the usual meaning of a notation like "g(t − 2∆t) ", where ∆t is the sample period, i.e. in my case the interval between recording one sample (of $g \in \mathbb{R}^3$) and its successive? t is of course the time at which g is recorded. For example, g(t) means a 3D vector recorded at time t.
 
Is $g$ a function?
 
$g(t)$ is somehow a function dependent on time
In my concrete case, $g(t)$ is an angular velocity at time $t$.
 
Then I guess it's the angular velocity two moments ago
Two samples ago
 
10:42 PM
I have basically the following expression, which in theory should be a 3rd order approximation for the derivative of $g(t)$
I'm not asking for an explanation of what 3rd order, etc, means, since I more or less have an idea of "approximating derivatives".
But given the equation above, do you still think that "g(t − 2∆t)" represents the angular velocity two moments ago?
What would g(t − ∆t) then mean?
 
Yeah it's using the values of the surrounding samples to approximate the derivative at the sample
I'd bet it's exact for polynomials of high enough degree
Maybe quartic
 
and 12∆t would be, say ∆t is given in Hz and it's 50Hz, 600?
the problem is, there should not be any unit of measure
I guess
 
@AkivaWeinberger what're you doing?
 
@AkivaWeinberger Another question. Do you think I should drop the first term of the numerator for the approximation of the derivatives of the first and second angular velocities, or maybe I should avoid using the first and last two angular velocities so that I can find an approximation of the derivatives?
 
@Semiclassical I think the problem is that you don't understand the gameplay completely. I suppose it's the sort of thing you have to play with to really understand. :p
 
10:53 PM
well, yes.
not sure why you expected any differently :/
 
@nbro Don't drop the first term, it'd probably not be very accurate
 
@Semiclassical there is a 2D sandbox demo thing if you want a point of reference for the gameplay.
 
not that interested, if I'm honest.
 
11:10 PM
@Semiclassical fair enough. Just thought I'd offer.
^^in case anyone is confused by the convo
 
11:50 PM
Huh
The best case scenario is that, in a hundred years, most people believe that global warming was a hoax
 
umm...
wat?
in a hundred years the arctic will melt
and people will think snow was a hoax
 
No, I mean, the best case scenario is we get our act together and fix it
 
ugh the higher order residue formula isn't simplifying :(
for $\dfrac {1}{(z-i)^m(z+i)^m}$
maybe the problem isnt meant to be done this way
 

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