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6:00 PM
So you need to factorize $f(x)-120 = 2x^3+10x^2-28x+120=(x+3)p(x)$.
That's a fair question.
I think I'd do it a bit more on the fly, as such:
$2x^3+10x^2-18x + 120$
$= [2x^2(x+3) -6x^2]+10x^2-28x+120$
$=2x^2(x+3)+4x^2-28x+120$
$=2x^2(x+3)+[4x(x+3)-12x]-28x+120$
$=(2x^2+4x)(x+3)-40x+120$
$=(2x^2+4x)(x+3)-40(x+3)$
 
I looked at how I did it when i handed it in, and it's weird...
 
oh, i see it
 
Wait no I'm blind
 
O hai
 
6:04 PM
$=(2x^2+4x-40)(x+3)$
yay
So $p(x)=2x^2+4x-40$.
 
@AkivaW What do you have on your plate
 
I have finals
 
That gives the relevant equation as $2x^2+4x-40=-34 \implies 2x^2+4x-6=0$.
 
$2x^3 + 10x^2 -28x = -34x + 18$
$2x^3 + 10x^2 - 28x + 34x -18 = 0$
$2x^3 + 10x^2 + 6x - 18 = 0$
$2(x^3 + 5x^2 + 3x - 9) = 0$
$ x = 1$ <---- huge jump
$f(1)=2(1)^3 + 10(1)^2 - 28(1) = -16$

Therefore, the tangent line intersects the graph again at point (1,-16)
 
6:05 PM
Tomorrow is physics; Friday is Spanish
 
Yikes
 
Well, to defend them a bit
You can actually discover that root in the following way.
You've got the equation $x^3+5x^2+3x-9=0$.
 
right
 
Merp @Akiva, good luck
 
6:06 PM
Is this the "try stuff and see what works" method?
 
By the rational root theorem, the only possible rational roots are of the form $\pm 1,\pm 3,\pm 9$.
 
@Daminark Thanks
 
So that suggests testing these roots to see if any of them work.
 
Good luck from me too
 
hm...
 
6:07 PM
And if you plug $x=1$ you find, miracle of miracles, that it works.
 
@Balarka is there an easy construction for a space with assigned $n$-th homotopy group?
 
I want to say there's a better method, though.
 
@Alessandro Yeah. Do you know the Eilenberg-Maclane spaces?
 
What I want to say is that $x=-3$ should be a double root of that equation
 
6:08 PM
a double root :o
 
Hey, it's true that $f$ has a repeated factor iff $f$ and $f'$ have a common factor, right?
 
And if that's the case, you'd need to have that equation factorize as $(x+3)^2(x-a)=0$.
 
Do you compare $f$, $f'$, and $f''$ if you want tripled factors?
 
Yeah, I guess it is here. Or, more geometrically: The tangent line to a curve always intersects the curve as a double root.
 
@Alessandro Say $G$ is an arbitrary group. I want to construct a space $K(G, n)$ with $\pi_n = G$ and $\pi_k = 0$ for all $k \neq n$.
 
6:09 PM
hm.
 
@Dodsy Here's a summary of that.
Suppose you didn't have the tangent line, but just some secant line.
 
@BalarkaSen $G$ better be abelian if $n>1$, right?
 
It'd intersect in two spots where $x=a,b$.
 
Thanks, yes, abelian.
 
@BalarkaSen ok, can this be done for every $G$ and $n$?
Abelian $G$*
 
6:10 PM
If I write the equation of the secant line I'm working with as $y=g(x)$
 
For every $G$ if $n = 1$, and every abelian $G$ if $n > 1$
 
then the fact that it intersects the curve in two places means that $f(x)=g(x)$ for $x=a,b$.
 
(Are all higher homotopy groups abelian?)
 
sniped.
 
6:11 PM
Or, equivalently, that $f(x)-g(x)$ has zeros at $x=a,b$. Does that make sense?
 
I think so
 
Interesting
 
Okay. Now I proceed to move one of the roots to 6, and then slide the other one to 6 as well in order to get the tangent line.
 
f(x)-g(x) = 0, right?
 
Right.
 
6:12 PM
I should really learn some algebraic topology
 
Once I do that, $g(x)$ will be the tangent line equation.
 
hm
 
@Alessandro So take a presentation $\langle g_i | r_i \rangle$ of $G$. Look at a wedge of $n$-sphere $\bigvee S^n$ indexed over the generators $g_i$. Attach cells $D^{n+1}$ corresponding to relators $r_i$.
 
But now both zeros are at 6!
 
D:
 
6:13 PM
Hence it should be the case that $f(x)-g(x)=0$ has a double root at $x=6$ when $g(x)$ is the equation of the tangent line at $x=6$.
 
@BalarkaSen so it's the same construction as for a group with assigned fundamental group
 
Oh, blargh.
 
@Alessandro In the event that I could make a case for doing grad geometry without officially taking algebraic topology I'd be up for doing some this summer
 
It should be easy to see that $H_n = G$, so you know by Hurewicz theorem that $\pi_n = G$ (because no cells below $n$)
@Alessandro Nope!
 
I somehow went from the roots being at x=-3 to x=6.
 
6:13 PM
I wasn't sure if that would work
 
There is a subtlety.
 
Ignore that; it should be at x=-3 throughout.
 
You might have higher homotopy groups.
 
So we conclude that $f(x)-g(x)$ has a double root at $x=-3$.
 
so then we can just put $f(-3)$
 
6:14 PM
Indeed, this does not even work for $n = 2$, $G = \Bbb Z$. You have $S^2$ from my construction, which has a lot of higher homotopy groups. $\pi_3$ is nonzero.
 
Blarg
 
Eh, that wont' help immediately. $f(-3)=g(-3)=120.$
 
@Faust7 same
 
Oh, right
 
oh right
 
6:14 PM
But, what did we have for $f(x)-g(x)$?
 
Kek @Alessandro and @Dodsy
 
You computed that a bit earlier.
 
Wasn't it zero?
 
Well, that's what we're equating it to.
But what did we actually have for that function?
 
@Daminark I have to decide whether I want to properly learn AT or set theory in August (or if I can find time for both)
 
6:16 PM
oh it was f(x) - (-34x + 18)
 
Right. What polynomial did that give?
 
Lol, makes sense
 
The trick is to take this CW complex $X$ I constructed, which might have nonzero $\pi_k(X)$ for $k \geq n+1$, so you take a map $f : S^k \to X$ representing a nontrivial $k$-homotopy class, and glue a cell $D^{k+1}$ along it (that is, glue $\partial D^{k+1}$ by $f$)
 
$2x^3 + 10x^2 + 6x -18$
 
Right.
 
6:17 PM
@BalarkaSen So this would end up infinite-dimensional generaly.?
 
Do it for ALL nontrivial homotopy classes in $\pi_k$, for ALL $k$. So that's a big big big space, possibly infinite dimension (usually so), which has $\pi_n = G$ and $\pi_k = 0$ for all $k \neq n$
 
So we input -3 into that function?
 
Oh haha
 
Stop trying to just plug numbers in.
 
6:17 PM
@Akiva Correct. Eg, $K(\Bbb Z, 2)$ is $\Bbb{CP}^\infty$.
 
I'm thinking that if I can make a case for going into grad geotop after self-studying atop, then I could do computability theory in the spring or smth
 
(Incidentally, the English language does not have enough punctuation marks)
 
Instead, let's recall something. If I've got a polynomial with roots $r_1,r_2,\cdots,r_n$, then it must be of the form $a(x-r_1)(x-r_2)\cdots(x-r_n)$
 
Yes sir.
 
So that'd be convenient
 
6:17 PM
Right.
 
If not, then I'm not sure if it'd be a good idea to pregame a class I would necessarily take soon anyway
(Though it seems like atop is the key to finally understanding what happens in this room)
 
If I expand that out, I'll get $ax^m-a(r_1+r_2+\cdots+r_n)x^{n-1}+\cdots +a(-r_1)(-r_2)\cdots(-r_n)$.
 
@BalarkaSen (@Ales) Is this uniquely defined?
 
Anyway, so this space is called $K(G, n)$. This space is unique upto homotopy equivalence, by Whitehead theorem.
snip'd
 
6:19 PM
@AkivaWeinberger Really? Are you, like, absolutely sure?! I mean, as far as English is concerned, punctuation is all around; especially here, and there.
 
Which means that the ratio of the last coefficient to the first one is (up to a sign) the product of the roots.
 
@Avantgarde I mean there's not enough individual symbols
 
hm.
 
Right
 
I want to write a poetry using just punctuation marks.
 
6:19 PM
Just . , : ; ( ) ? !
 
In the present case, that gives us $a=2$ and $a(-r_1)(-r_2)(-r_3)=-18$.
 
but I want more
 
so
 
Or, simplifying, $r_1 r_2 r_3=9$.
 
. . . ?
!!
,,. )
 
6:20 PM
Why need more when you can do with less?
 
@BalarkaSen wow
 
So the product of the 3 roots is 9.
 
-2(3)(-r2)(-r3) = -18
 
@Balarka and it even rhymes
 
Oh, yeah, forgot about ellipses…
 
6:20 PM
Remember, it's a double root
 
ohhhhh
right
 
@Daminark lol
 
that's an easy way to look at it....
-2(3)(3)(-1) = +18 though
 
A poem: (
 
Sure.
That equation is true.
So r_3 = -1.
 
6:21 PM
\('-')/ wao
 
How can we tell if it's a double root though?
 
This is the new postmodern poetry
 
because it intersects twice?
 
I already told you that :)
 
6:21 PM
Because it's a tangent line, basically.
 
oh wow
this will make things much easier!
This is mathmagic
 
The unclosed bracket clearly implies a state of immense uncertainty and despair.
A monologue of a broken heart, snif.
 
Another poem: )))… ad infinitum
 
begins analyzing meter
 
hello denmark
 
6:25 PM
Hey Avantgarde!
 
@Alessandro Neat, isn't it? In any case, if you want $\pi_i = G_i$ for $i = 1, 2, \cdots$ then $K(G_1, 1) \times K(G_2, 2) \times \cdots \times K(G_i, i) \times \cdots \times$ is a space with those specified homotopy groups.
 
@BalarkaSen So $\prod K(\pi_n(S^2),n)$ has the same homotopy groups as $S^2$
 
@Semiclassical thanks again
 
Is it in any way related to $S^2$? Like homotopy equivalent or something
 
@AkivaWeinberger Nope, it's probably a terrible space. There's a theorem, however.
I think it's called Postnikov tower? Basically expresses a space $X$ as a "twisted product" of $K(\pi_n(X), n)$ or something.
I should learn how to do that at some point of time. Hell why not now
 
6:37 PM
@AlessandroCodenotti Hey, with regards to higher homotopy groups being abelian
So you know how $\pi_1(S^1\vee S^1)$ is the free group on two generators?
Try to see why $\pi_2(S^2\vee S^2)$ is not that
(And I assume it's $\Bbb Z^2$)
 
@BalarkaSen Classify spaces with two homotopy grouos
 
Or $\pi_2(\Bbb R^3\setminus\{p,q\})$, I guess.
 
@MikeMiller Hmm, Ok.
 
@AkivaWeinberger I'll ponder that when cooking dinner
@BalarkaSen when does $\pi_n(X\times Y)=\pi_n(X)\times\pi_n(Y)$ hold? It's always true for $n=1$ but it can't be in general for higher $n$
 
Yeah it's true for any $n$. Any map $A \to B \times C$ is created out of maps $A \to B$ and $A \to C$
 
6:50 PM
That's what I thought, but don't you get groups that aren't commutative this way?
 
How?
 
Oh, no, wait, the groups I'm taking the product of are abelian to begin with
Derp
 
Yeah.
 
@AlessandroCodenotti Relative homotopy groups can be nonabelian
(♫Nonabelian♫)
 
What does relative mean here? That a subspace gets fixed by the homotopies?
 
6:56 PM
Guys, just to be sure: we can have $0\vert0$, but not $\begin{aligned}\frac{0}{0}\end{aligned}$, right?
 
what
 
Huh. I guess so
 
whats the diffrence?
 
$a|b$ is $b=ak$ for some integer $k$, right?
 
yes @Akiva
 
6:58 PM
So, yeah, I guess $0|0$ is true then
 
@AkivaWeinberger Nonassociative
 
lol of course :P
nobody saw that
 

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