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10:06 PM
Morning
 
10:16 PM
@Mike: Clearly your clock is stuck on morning.
 
@Ted It's morning somewhere.
 
rsz
@TedShifrin and one other question, since the calculator doesn't accept this long number, the easiest way to determine the decimal number 2^63 in hex is to do it manually, i mean it would be probably stupid to go the way you pointed me to the relation between the levels
 
Well, fortunately, it's martini-time here :P
@rsz: Right, that's probably why you were assigned that question rather than, say, $2^8-1$. :)
 
A student asked me what multiplication of matrices was in terms of systems of equations. It stumped me. I (probably unsuccessfully) tried to make the point that this is why passing to matrices instead of systems of equations is good.
 
Wait, stupid to go the way I pointed you? Huh? @rsz
That's a very interesting question, @Mike. Multiplication is natural for linear maps, far from natural for systems.
 
rsz
10:19 PM
it is not stupid, just till i would get to 63 by going through the exponents it would take a lot of time
 
@JasperLoy Many Thanks
 
Sorry, @rsz, I don't understand what you're trying to say.
 
rsz
i mean, i get this task on an exam, for example where i have limited time for multiple things, to get the value of 2^4 or 2^6 would be easy to count, but to get the 2^63 without the calculator would take a lot of time, or am i missing something?
 
@JasperLoy very good thanks
 
@MikeMiller Doesn't it correspond to subsituting variables in some sense?
 
10:21 PM
I figured out $2^{63}$ without a calculator, @rsz. How did you use a calculator?
@Espen: Sure, it's composition of linear functions. But that's hard to understand when you're in the first week of linear algebra just discussing systems of equations :)
@Mike: Very, very disappointing. One of the problems I put on the algebra qual was to prove that commuting diagonalizable linear maps (finite dimensions, of course) are simultaneously diagonalizable. No one got it :(
 
Not quite, @Espen. That's conjugation of matrices.
 
I mean, substitution of "2x2" systems of equations is something we did in middle school. ;O
 
@Mike: He means to write $(AB)x=0$ as $A(Bx) = 0$ and let $Bx=u$.
 
@TedShifrin right.
 
Sure - but to do that one talks about transformations. It's a level beyond systems of equations. (Whence why it's natural to talk about linear transformations!)
 
10:25 PM
@MikeMiller Perhaps explain it in terms of permutations? Of course, that would require decomposing a general matrix into a basis of permutation matrices... I'm not sure that would be satisfying.
 
Well, matrix multiplication makes $(AB)x = A(Bx)$, i.e., it's associative, so you can still do it without linear maps, @Mike.
smacks @Arkamis
 
@Ted You're applying a linear map to x.
 
rsz
@TedShifrin what is the easiest way to do that? cuz the decimal representation of the number is pretty long, so i assume there is some way to do that quickly, could you tell me?
 
But you don't need to say you are, @Mike. Trust me, I've taught linear algebra a LOT :P
 
10:26 PM
@TedShifrin Sometimes maybe the best way to answer the question is to show the student that the answer is truly terrifying (or terrible)!
 
@rsz: Sure, I thought you'd figured it out! $63 = 15\cdot 4 + 3$, so $2^{63} = 16^{15}\cdot 2^3$.
 
@Ted How do you write down/explain the RHS without doing a transformation?
 
NO, @Arkamis. You're not my sort of teacher.
 
@TedShifrin ;)
 
How did you define matrix multiplication and how do you justify associativity, @Mike?
 
10:29 PM
@TedShifrin Well, proving associativity of matrix multiplication is not very pleasant in any case.
 
It is easy if you define matrix multiplication by columns, rather than by dot products of rows and columns.
I define it and emphasize $Ax = \sum x_ja_j$, where $a_j$ is the $j$th column.
 
I didnt and I didn't.
 
well, you suck :D
 
No, it's not my job.
 
LOL, I know.
 
10:30 PM
Good!
 
I define it that way, and then I show them that they're doing the dot product thingy.
Trust me, @Mike, I've thought long and hard about how to present this stuff for many years.
 
@TedShifrin Sure, I can see how it makes the summation gymnastics easier.
 
The point is that the $j$th column of $AB$ is $Ab_j$.
 
I have never had a good introduction to linear algebra. =(
 
I hope, hope, hope ... my students don't say that :)
 
10:32 PM
Personally I would start with abelian categories and later specialize to matrices of complex numbers. #AbstractNonsenseCannotBeBeat
 
I simply learned through mastering subjugation and terror. Much like how Bruce Wayne became Batman.
 
Anyhow, @Mike, if you take associativity as an ansatz, then this still works, for whatever it's worth.
rolls eyes @Espen You're as bad as @Laters.
 
@Ted I spent most of the time teaching them how to invert matrices.
 
Invert ... already?
 
It's on the homework. But not in the book.
Yes.
 
10:33 PM
Oy ... With $[A|I]$?
 
yeah
 
Say Cramer's Rule! Say Cramer's Rule!
 
Wrong again, @Arkamis. You go on ignore.
 
One person asked me why it works, so I started to talk about elementary matrices, and then they said they didn't know what those are.
 
@Mike: Seriously, tell the curious kid to come see you in office hours and talk about this. I'm super-impressed by the question.
You don't need elementary matrices at all.
You should read my linear algebra book :P
 
10:35 PM
hello i have a matlab related question is someone available
 
@TedShifrin =P
 
The algorithm tells you that $AB=I$. The subtlety is why $BA=I$.
 
<-- Resident MATLAB fellow. @user2692669
 
Finally, @Arkamis has a useful application.
 
@TedShifrin :O
Let's not be hasty.
 
10:36 PM
@Arkamis when doing arithmetic operations (+,*,powers etc) does matlab follow round to the infinity side?
 
wow, what does that mean?
 
What do you mean? MATLAB simply reports the CPU's implementation of IEEE 754
 
@Mike, have you ignored me or are you thinking?
 
and what does that round to? :S
i thought matlab used rounding methods
 
10:38 PM
Well, one less @Mike to be bothered by ...
 
MATLAB, as far as I am aware, does not re-implement core parts of the floating point spec.
 
@TedShifrin In my LinAlg1 class, we did the group-theoretic proof.
For uniqueness of inverses, that is.
 
@Arkamis i see 4 methods
 
totally crazy, @Espen. Mathematicians are nuts.
Uniqueness? That's just immediate from associativity.
 
rsz
@TedShifrin and how does that equation you wrote help me to get to the result in hexadecimal number base? i was figuring it out till now and couldn't get to the meaning
 
10:40 PM
@user2692669 There are 5. I believe it just implements whatever's on your processor. I have no idea what that is.
 
Because, @rsz, what I wrote down tells you that you need an 8 ($2^3$) in the fifteeenth (well, really, sixteenth) slot, and that's what you had.
 
@TedShifrin I mean left-inverse implies right-inverse. Wow, I'm developing a habit of misleading descriptions.
 
hmmm
 
Whoa. @Espen: Assuming square matrices?
 
@Arkamis The reason I'm asking is because I want to split a range of numbers
to equal parts
(max_value-min_value)/(2^N)
 
10:41 PM
I don't remember fully, but I think the proof is the same regardless, right?
 
2^N parts to be exact
 
NO, for non-square matrices, you can have a left-inverse in certain circumstances but then never a right inverse, and vice-versa.
 
@Arkamis these parts (regions) will be: Regions = min_value:Region_size:max_value;
 
Hey everyone
 
@TedShifrin Oh, right! For square matrices, then. :P
 
10:42 PM
hi @Kaj: you should knock me off my soapbox.
 
ok
 
but
how i'm i sure
for the last part that will be max_value
 
@Espen: Yes, basically that's what most people do with elementary matrices, but as I was trying to say to @Mike (who's put me on ignore) is that it's more basic than that.
 
@TedShifrin, I've been trying to find an elegant solution to finding the order of $\operatorname{GL}_2(\mathbb{Z}_p)$.
 
@Ted No, I am just doing other things. You once told me to do some work...
 
10:43 PM
LOL, funny how you choose to apply that when I'm trying to talk to you, @Mike.
oooh, great problem, @Kaj.
 
So far I've only found an inelegant solution :/
 
why not use linspace(min_value,max_value, 2^N)
 
(One student came to office hours and asked if you can use Gauss-Jordan to solve AB=C where C is a matrix. I was very impressed...)
 
Which was basically a counting argument.
 
And tell people you don't want a solution or someone will give you one. :)
 
10:44 PM
@TedShifrin But the proof that left and right inverses coincide when they exist is still the same. :P
 
@Arkamis i didn't even know that existed
 
@Mike: So far I'm very impressed by your students, so please encourage them. And don't hesitate to ask me if you want pedagogical advice to ignore :P
@Espen, that's just associativity with symbol-pushing.
 
@TedShifrin It's the only way to fly.
 
Well, now you do. it should be guaranteed that if X = linspace(min_x, max_x, N), then X(end) == max_x returns 1.
 
@Arkamis the bad thing is that any "suspicious" clever code might suggest a cheater (sucks)
 
10:45 PM
I figure if I can find the order of $\operatorname{SL}_2(\mathbb{Z}_p)$, then I'm finished by applying the isomorphism theorem.
 
Well, the order of most things amounts to counting, @Kaj, so what do you mean?
 
@Ted Well, there are 5 out of 35 that have anything to say.
 
That's backwards, @Kaj. It's easier to do $GL$ and use it to find $SL$.
 
Supposedly Dr. Rumely knows a solution to this problem that makes it almost immediate @TedShifrin
 
linspace is a core function to MATLAB -- it's hardly cheater code. In any case, it provides you with a ground truth so you can test whatever algorithm you come up with.
 
10:46 PM
Well, that's why you should encourage the 5 to come to office hours to learn more math, @Mike, and spend more time in class on the other 30.
My proof is immediate, @Kaj :D
 
Make the other 25 invert matrices with Cramer's rule.
 
ignores @Arkamis for good
 
gets smacked by @TedShifrin
 
@Ted How do you convince yourself the RHS is the (right-)incerse without knowing that row transformariojs are right multiplying by elementary matrices?
 
@TedShifrin, my solution amounted to subtracting from $p^4$ the number of matrices of determinant zero, which I was able to count with some case work.
 
10:47 PM
@Arkamis i want to use it for finding equal spaces then implementing Lloyd-Max algorithm (or something that looks like it i hope :D )
 
no, @Kaj, that sucks.
 
@Mike: I give you the proof one of my talented students told me 20 years ago (and which I've never found in any book other than mine). Look at the algorithm upside-down.
@Kaj: You prove that I failed at teaching you linear algebra. So much for my cred here.
 
I was also trying to playing around with $\det$ as a homomorphism $GL_2(\mathbb{Z}_p) \rightarrow \mathbb{Z}_p^\times$, but I wasn't getting anything useful...
 
What?
Oh, I see.
Meh.
 
10:49 PM
I have no idea what that algorithm is, @user2692669, but unless I needed to write my own algorithm as a requirement, I would simply use linspace. Farting around with trying to outsmart IEEE 754 implementations is usually a fast track to pain.
 
@Mike: Upside down, $[I|B]$ turns into $[A|I]$, so $BA = I$. So f***ing clever of Paul.
@Kaj: What does it mean for a matrix to be nonsingular (invertible), thinking, of course, of its columns?
LOL, @Mike: You say "Meh" but it's so cute.
 
The columns are linearly independent? @Ted
 
I don't care about the left inverse. That's clever. I'm asking how you know it's a right inverse without talking about elementary matrices.
 
Right, @Kaj. So count now.
 
Ohh, wait
 
10:50 PM
But I see that now.
 
hehehe
 
Huh, @Mike? That's immediate from the algorithm for solving $Ax=b$ with an augmented matrix.
 
I work for an company with over 15 PhDs in electrical engineering. for the past 5 minutes, I have listened to someone fail to use the microwave oven properly.
 
ROFL @Arkamis.
 
Yeah, I see that. I find that completely uninspiring.
 
10:52 PM
Ah! Now they have discovered that the door was not fully shut.
 
gives up and ignores Mike for real
maybe it needed Cramer's rule, @Arkamis.
 
I'm glad it was closed.
 
@TedShifrin We all need more Cramer's rule.
 
10:53 PM
Anyways, I should be working on my complex homework.
 
I can't stand these congratulations threads anyway
close em all
 
Yeah, @Laters, I agree, especially since we have so many rep whores around here.
But I am exceedingly proud of what @DanielF contributes here.
 
Au contraire, @Kaj, your homework is very simple.
 
It really is @MikeMiller
 
@Arkamis: You, as a numerical person, know that Cramer's rule is worthless.
 
10:54 PM
@TedShifrin Not being facetious, for a moment, actually sometimes a good way to inspire a student to think about a problem is to initially present a shitty way to do something, and hope that they come to the conclusion "there's got to be a better way." Unfortunately, 85% of students just give up anyways.
@TedShifrin Of course. It is the devil incarnate.
I learned matrix inversion by Cramers rule -- using Maple.
 
-1
A: How to show that "Uniformly continuous implies continuous"?

Aaron MarojaLet $f: X \to \mathbb{R}$ be uniformly continuous. Then for any $\epsilon > 0$ given there exists $\delta > 0$ such that $x,y \in X$, $$|x - y| < \delta \Rightarrow |f(x) - f(y)|<\epsilon$$ In particular fix $a \in X$ arbitraly, then $$|x - a| < \delta \implies |f(x) - f(a)| < \epsilon $$ ...

 
It took me two years to recover from that injustice.
 
the end is near!
 
@Laters That's because you hate happiness and joy.
 
@Arkamis: Occasionally if I tell students I don't know a nice way to do something, the very good ones will take that as a challenge. But 99% give up and say that if I don't know, they certainly will never find it. ... But I reference that wonderful student (who flunked out of my university for reasons not related to mathematical talent) who gave me the right proof for matrix inverses above.
 
10:56 PM
@Arkamis: no. I think people that seek congratulations on an internet site should buy instead: youtube.com/watch?v=o50_ZlMnjqY
 
I'm worried about a coup here of the formal, category types. @Laters seems to be picking up quite a côterie :D
 
@TedShifrin: don't worry, I am currently assembling my followers, we'll take over this site and allow category theory questions only
 
well, @Laters, more reason for me to retire from here when I retire from the university :D
 
And no interpersonal relations at all.
 
What are those, @Arkamis?
 
10:58 PM
@TedShifrin There are two types of mathematician. Category theorists and closeted category theorists.
 
@TedShifrin: I think to non categorical mathematics the same will happen that happened to the dinosaurs
 
Then I deduce that I have never been a mathematician, @Espen @Laters
 
if you know what I mean
sadly, sadly
 
@Laters Luckily us engineers are ignoring you category theorists and building lasers and shit to handle that asteroid.
pewpew
 
I'm still sceptical about categorical contributions to e.g. analysis, though.
 
10:59 PM
you are an engineer?
 
or differential geometry ...
 
I wear many hats.
 
@TedShifrin: what is the meaning of "the function f(x)=1/x"?
 
not anymore @Arkamis
 
it will be done, don't worry
 
11:00 PM
@TedShifrin Allow me: www.mat.univie.ac.at/~michor/kmsbookh.pdf
 
LOL, you tell me cateogrically, @Laters
 
@MikeMiller January cannot steal all of my hats!
 
There is still the SB champion hat :-)
 
What value were your many hats when you know that I had more?
 
jk it has none. in any case, I hope you teach the definition of a function the way it should be: (X,Y,f) with f subset of X times Y with....
 
11:01 PM
it's just formalizing formalism, @Espen. I'd like to see really new content.
 
the bourbaki way, i.e.
-1
A: How to show that "Uniformly continuous implies continuous"?

Aaron MarojaLet $f: X \to \mathbb{R}$ be uniformly continuous. Then for any $\epsilon > 0$ given there exists $\delta > 0$ such that $x,y \in X$, $$|x - y| < \delta \Rightarrow |f(x) - f(y)|<\epsilon$$ In particular fix $a \in X$ arbitraly, then $$|x - a| < \delta \implies |f(x) - f(a)| < \epsilon $$ ...

 
There are many good arguments that that's not true, @Ted.
 
here some guy claims that f(x)=1/x is not uniformly continuous lol
 
That's one of the basic principles of logic, @Laters. General $\implies$ specific.
on what domain, @Laters?
 
It....isn't? @Laters
 
11:03 PM
yeah, you see. no its not on a compact set
 
@TedShifrin Well, that's what category theory does, really. It organizes stuff and allows one to ask new questions. Already we see new developments about, say, Lie groupoids.
 
I don't care, @Laters. What not compact set?
 
he doesn't specify the domain, i.e. does not understand what a map is
this is why the definition is as I put it above
ordered triple definition
 
If one doesn't specify domain, common parlance is that one means the maximal domain. So he's right.
And you're being an ass.
 
lol ted
what does this even mean, maximal domain?
 
11:04 PM
I'd star that, but I fear the wrath of @PedroTamaroff.
 
You know full well what it means.
 
to the punctured complex plane?
:D
 
Fine.
 
I don't think that this is so standard
perhaps in the u.S.
 
Jesus christ, Category theory is what happens when lawyers and mathematicians get fused by some supervillain's ray gun.
2
 
11:05 PM
but I have never seen this in use in e.g. bourbakis book
surprise surprise
 
It's totally standard in precalculus and calculus that if one does not specify a particular domain, the intent is the set of all $x$ for which $f(x)$ is defined. In those settings, $x\in\Bbb R$.
 
@Laters Can you do a blow up to remove the singularity? (Doesn't know alg.geom)
 
I'm really not very patient about dealing with you any more, @Laters. I'm outta here.
 
@TedShifrin haha ok bye
 
@Arkamis Are you saying we are damned? :(
 
11:06 PM
sorry I never took calculus or precalculus
 
@Laters ergo, it must not exist and everyone else's experience is irrelevant.
 
Why not? @Laters
 
@EspenNielsen We are always damned; the only repentance is to invert three 4-by-4 matrices using Cramer's rule.
 
this is the kind of mathematics which you forget and replace it by some more powerful concepts
like e.g. the usual linear algebra stuff
well I do so in any case
 
I think you confuse the concepts of "you" and "I".
 
11:08 PM
Why forget where you came from @Laters?
 
because as for most humans, my brain capacity is limited. and as I learn a lot of new stuff, I also have to forget some things, there are anyway a lot of things I hope to forget, they are more of a burden
 
@Laters Or you can reorganize them in the new framework. There is no practical bound for how much a person can learn though.
 
I know that some people never want to get above something like introductory complex analysis, but I certainly want
 
Then you learned the wrong basics my friend @Laters
 
@skullpatrol: I think I have a pretty precise understanding of the basic concepts of mathematics
 
11:11 PM
Math builds upon itself.
 
What's complex analysis? I only know Kähler geometry...
 
@Ted @Mike \o
 
I am talking about "vector calculus"
this is totally trivial stuff which at some point one just has to replace
 
When Category Theory builds an MRI machine, give me a call.
 
category theory is not meant to be useful to an engineer
 
11:13 PM
@Arkamis It will probably be a "Homotopy MRI" machine though, the way things are developing lately.
 
Then stop using "one" when you mean "me".
 
engineer mathematics is for (human) calculators. @Arkamis: No.
 
But the he extension must be natural. Otherwise where is the motivation?
 
@skullpatrol When you have a big hammer...
 
Then your arrogance in speaking for the entire mathematical community is truly, categorically unbounded.
I'm off to enjoy a burrito. Goodnight!
 
11:15 PM
lol rage quit
 
Later pal
 
What's the commotion about?
 
bye, it was a pleasure. I am not talking for " the entire mathematical community", I was just expressing my opinion
 
Laters is being nonsensical
 
I was sleeping but had a stomachache and woke up and now I can't sleep.
 
11:17 PM
@skullpatrol: no
@JasperLoy go eat something and go back
to be
d
 
To be d?
 
bed!
do your health a favor, like arkamis did
player haters!
@Arkamis: math.stackexchange.com/questions/638299/… so you like category theory
 
7
Q: Congratulations (again), Daniel Fischer!

amWhyNo, this is not a belated post about the moderator election results. Instead, I noticed that Daniel Fischer has very recently topped 100K in reputation. And he accomplished that in one-year, six-months, while also contributing enormously through helpful comments on questions. I think these feat...

 
@skullpatrol Ahh commotion
 
@skullpatrol I think meta should allow these posts. This site is too serious, lol.
 
11:30 PM
@JasperLoy The problem is, where do you draw the line?
I am going to congratulate myself for reaching 3.1 k soon
 
@Alizter Yeah. How is school?
 
@JasperLoy Good. All A's and a high B in Chem
 
@Alizter Good. Don't forget me when you win the Fields medal. I am going to eat now.
 
Fields medal he says. Pff.
 
@Arkamis linspace spaces are not exactly equal right?
i used
a = linspace(0,100,455);
for i = 3:455
a(i-1)-a(i-2) == a(i) - a(i-1)
end

and I get a mix of 1's and zeroes
 
11:43 PM
@user2692669 What are you talking about?
 
@evinda well equal spaces are not so equal but i get it now, it should be like that
(in computer arithmetic****)
 
@user2692669 Do you use Matlab?
 
@evinda yes
 
@user2692669 Aha!
 
@evinda i sence evil energy from that aha :P
 
11:46 PM
@user2692669 What do you mean?
 
@user2692669 Of course they cannot be exactly equal. You are using floating point arithmetic.
 
@evinda nothing major just matlab is like evil if you don't use a microscope
 
MATLAB is not evil. One must understand their tools
 
well if someone is not extremely cautious then things can get really bad
 
@Laters I like category theory quite well. I'm on the fence about category theorists.
@user2692669 The entire field of numerical analysis is predicated upon understanding precisely that caution.
Computers are finite -- this is a curse we all must live with.
 
11:57 PM
that's a nice quote :)
 
The mind is finite too, for mere mortals.
Hello @AsafKaragila! Hope you return to chat one day.
 
I started a class today. The professor asked many questions to students. I played dumb because I didn't want to embarrass the other students.
 
Hrm, there is a user asking for answers for something which is equivalent to an exam. How come the question has received several answers and no delete votes?
-5
Q: Find a function $F(n)$ such that $F(n) = 2\,F(\sqrt n\,) + 1$ for all $n\in\mathbb N$

ADARSHI applied for job in a company abroad, and got a mail detailing a few questions. One question out of them is this. I tried to find the answers over several sites, but didn't find the exact right answer for the below question. I'm left with $10$ hrs to reply back with answer. Find a function $F(n...

 
@AsafKaragila Link?
@AsafKaragila Strange -- I reviewed that today and voted to close, yet my name is not among the close voters.
 

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