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r9m
12:06 AM
yay ! Leonidas and his brave 300 !! :D
 
@r9m ??
 
r9m
@Hippalectryon it happens to be my 300th consecutive day on M.Se :)
3
 
12:20 AM
Sorry for the delay, @Hippa. The key is knowing the topology of $[0,1]$; you can't really do this otherwise. His proof and Daniel's are basically the same thing. Pick a path between any two points $x \in U$, $x \in U^c$. Consider the set of points $f^{-1}(U)$; convince yourself it's open. Then its complement is closed. In $[0,1]$, this means it has a least element: a smallest $c$ such that $f(c)\in U^c$. This is your limit point.
 
What is $f$ ? @MikeMiller the path ?
 
Daniel's proof would go as follows: pick a path $f$ connecting $x$ and $y$. Then $f^{-1}(U)$ and $f^{-1}(U^c)$ are both open. The unit interval is connected, so one of them must be empty; contradiction, there was either no $x \in U$ or no $y \in U^c$.
Sorry. It's our path $[0,1] \to V$.
So understanding this situation gets pushed back to understanding the topology of the reals.
 
And how do we show that $f^{-1}(U,U^c)$ are open ?
 
Follows from whatever your definition of continuity is.
 
The one I know is $\forall\varphi>0,\exists\alpha>0,\forall x_0\in[x-\alpha,x+\alpha],|x-x_0|<\varphi$
continuity at point $x$
 
12:25 AM
Use that one.
 
But how do you link openness and continuity ?
 
@Hippalectryon the inverse image of every open set is open
 
@robjohn I haven't seen that property yet
@robjohn Is there an easy way to prove it ?
 
It's sort of a definition
 
@robjohn The definition I know is the one I wrote above
 
12:31 AM
With the definition... let $f$ be continuous. Pick a point $x \in f^{-1}(U)$. By definition $f(x)\in U$. Pick $\varepsilon$ small enough that $B(x,\varepsilon)\subset U$. Then by definition of continuity...
 
We haven't done much topo at all
 
(You can finish this.)
I'll write a metric space flavored answer when I get home.
 
@Hippalectryon Yeah... what Mike Miller started is pretty much the way. It is not hard.
 
@MikeMiller I see, thanks. I still have one thing bugging me
Let's say that $f^{-1}(U)=].5,1[$
Then $f^{-1}(U^c)=[0,.5]\cup\{1\}$
Wouldn't the least element of ^ be $0$ ?
 
Well, it should include $0$. By a path from $x$ to $y$ I mean a continuous map $f:[0,1] \to X$ such that $f(0)=x, f(1)=y$.
There was a minor error in my proof. I'll fix it when I'm home.
 
12:34 AM
@MikeMiller I need to go to sleep now, i'm looking forward to your complete proof for when I wake up :) Many thanks
Thanks to @robjohn also
Have a good night/evening/... everyone
 
Shout out to my boy, @Hippa!
Good night!
 
r9m
12:49 AM
ugh I feel stoo..oopid ....
 
@r9m How about this one? $\displaystyle\frac{\displaystyle\left(1+2\sqrt{4!+5!}\right)\left[\prod_{n=1}^3‌​\Gamma\left(\frac{n}3\right)\right]^2} {\displaystyle{e}^{2\operatorname{Li}_1(\frac12)}\operatorname{Li}_2\left(\frac{‌​\Gamma'(1)}{\Psi(1)}\right)}=50$
 
don't we all, @r9m? :)
 
r9m
@teadawg1337 hmm !!! monstaa !! :D release the kraken !!! :D (release the kraken = post it :-) .. )
@MikeMiller perhaps I have additional reasons to curse myself this time .. I was staring at it the whole time ! :(
 
@teadawg1337 It just takes a few formulas... I think Gauss' product formula for Gamma and a few special values of special functions should do it
 
r9m
@teadawg1337 I see you posted it already :) (+1)
 
12:59 AM
@robjohn That's an expression I found while playing around with the properties of polylogs and the gamma function
 
@teadawg1337 I proved Gauss' Multiplication Formula in this answer
 
r9m
@robjohn I think they are planning to give the senior teacher a heart attack !
 
$\displaystyle \prod_{n=1}^3\Gamma\left(\frac{n}3\right)=\frac{2\pi}{\sqrt3}$
 
@Hippalectryon Posted it if you're still awake.
 
@robjohn I must say, that is a nice proof though :)
 
1:07 AM
@teadawg1337 Thanks. I had been working with lots of product identities at the time and so the proof just seemed obvious. I've found that what you are working on at the time greatly affects the proofs you come up with
@teadawg1337 I don't know any closed form for $\Gamma\left(\frac13\right)$ or $\Gamma\left(\frac23\right)$, but I know their product :)
@teadawg1337 For $n=3$ we can use the reflection formula, too
 
r9m
I simply like the reflection-formulas ! ^_^
 
$\Gamma\left(3/3\right)=\Gamma(1)=0!=1$
 
@r9m there are a number of them... $\Gamma$ and $\mathrm{Li}_2$ are two that come to mind.
 
n=3 is trivial
 
ah, just noticed that it is time to take a dog to the park... BBL
 
r9m
1:18 AM
@robjohn ya ! all of them are exciting :-)
I like all of the reflection formulas coz everytime I use them I feel like I'm doing this - uchiha reflection :P lol
 
i cut a mobieus strip that had one 180 degree turn in it, down the middle, and I got a longer one, then two turns and i got two rings, three and i got a knot, and four i got two knots, will i just keep getting knots if i keep going? i ran out of paper
 
r9m
@beginner whether you duplicate it or not depends on the number of turns (how many surface it has 1 or 2) ..
 
r9m
1:35 AM
We start with concavity of $f$ in $[0,1]$, $f(tx) \ge tf(x) + (1-t)f(0) \ge tf(x) + (1-t)$

$\displaystyle \begin{align} \implies \int_0^1 f(tx)\,dt \ge \frac{1}{2}f(x) + \frac{1}{2}\end{align}$

Making the substitution, $tx \to t$, and integrating w.r.t. $x$,

$\displaystyle \begin{align} &\implies \int_0^1 \int_0^x f(t)\,dt\,dx \ge \frac{1}{2}\int_0^1xf(x)\,dx + \frac{1}{4} \\ &\implies \left[\int_0^x f(t)\,dt\right]_0^1 - \int_0^1 xf(x)\,dx \ge \frac{1}{2}\int_0^1xf(x)\,dx + \frac{1}{4} \\ &\implies \int_0^1 f(x)\,dx \ge \frac{3}{2}\int_0^1 xf(x)\,dx + \frac{1}{4} \\ &\implies \left(\int
 
$4!+5!=12^2$
I wonder, are there any other pairs of factorials whose sum produces a perfect square?
This group of four factorials produces a perfect cube: $1!+2!+3!+6!=9^3$
I know what I'm spending my day doing tomorrow :D
$9^3=27^2$
 
 
1 hour later…
3:12 AM
@r9m but for $n$ turns, $n$ even i have two surfaces, and $n$ odd I have one, but $n=1$ i have a middle cut giving me a longer mobieus strip, and $n=2$ giving me two interlinked mobeius strips, but $n=3$ gives me a knot, and $n=4$ seems to give me a knot too!
 
@beginner When you say $n=3$, you mean that you're making one long cut, that ultimately cuts each "vertical part" into 3 pieces?
 
$n=3$ i mean is the number of 180 degree twists
three 180 degree paper twists before sticky taping
 
And then you cut that down the center?
 
yeah so one cut that joins up, not a boundary cut though. the cut never passes past itself, it is just a middle cut
ill be back in a few hours and respond to you again cause my parents need to take me out now
 
For $n=3$ it should give you the $6$ twist version... I'm confused
 
3:25 AM
I'm heading off to bed, night guys
 
Night.
 
can someone do me a quick chat favour please?
i have hit a length limit in a canned reply and need someone to add a line just so i can continue :-).
 
just say boo or something
 
hope that helped
 
3:37 AM
thanks mike!
 
no prob
 
I'm not sure if this is the right place to do this, but could a moderator (or anyone) explain why this comment is acceptable on this site
" @Behaviour Im sorry but I think you are being not nice. Maybe she has more time " from now on " or something like that. Surely she is an intresting user of MSE. Or maybe Im just defending her because she is pretty :) But still I think she makes a good candidate." math.stackexchange.com/election/5#post-1059198
I don't want to call anyone out publicly, but I flagged that comment and the flag was rejected.
 
A few moderators come to this chat. You could ping them.
 
@MikeMiller could you do that? I have no idea who those mods are.
 
the comment is trite, borderline misogynistic and says more about the commenter than anything else. what action were you expecting?
 
3:50 AM
@copper.hat I would expect it to be deleted, since it really serves no other purpose.
 
:-). that would cover a lot of comments (a lot of mine fall in that category :-)).
 
@Christofian The usernames of those who regularly visit here are robjohn and Alexander Gruber.
@copper.hat Trite, borderline misogynistic, say more than you than anybody else, and serve no other purpose?
 
@copper.hat I was also expecting that they would have a conversation with that person. Looking at his profile, he sais that he's ~15 years old, so that probably is a factor. I would hope that they would explain to him the right way to participate in an online community.
 
sorry, mike, i don't understand what you mean?
 
@robjohn @AlexanderGruber could you respond to the message I posted above?
 
3:52 AM
(my comment was not about Christofian.)
@Christofian: if the behaviour is repeated then some action would be appropriate, but for one comment may stir up more than is necessary?
 
@copper.hat You said "that would cover a lot of comments", and I was throwing in the other adjectives, too. I'm not suggesting it should be deleted because it's not particularly constructive on the nomination, I'm suggesting it should be deleted because, as you said it's trite, borderline misogynistic, say more about him than anybody else, and as I said, serves no other purpose.
I don't see why it should stick around.
Anyway, this doesn't concern me, so I'll stay out of it.
 
@MikeMiller: where does the comment appear?
 
@MikeMiller: thanks! i suspect censoring the comment would generate distracting flak. anyway, i should stay out too, i was just curious. thanks for helping earlier, much appreciated (turns out that i misunderstood the system response, my paragraph was too long, i just needed to split the paragraph, not get someone else to interject.)
as an aside, i think mods should have some minimum rep as a proxy for maturity of some sort. also lets one evaluate by looking at their responses, etc. (that said, the acrimony that has appeared in the past between high-rep mods suggests my though process is flawed.)
 
Wait, how can you flag comments on nominations? I thought they were disabled.
 
4:04 AM
@Behaviour Maybe they just called the mods?
 
@Behaviour Will you be wearing a hat, come the 15th?
 
Anyway, I think the comment should stay because it says something about its author (mick), who is one of nominees.
 
Ah, that he's a nominee is a good point.
 
@MikeMiller No, they tend to slow down the browser. I'm all about efficiency.
 
@Behaviour What's the comment?
@Behaviour Hehehe.
 
4:06 AM
Mike: that was what i meant by 'says more about the commenter than anything else'
 
@Christofian This one. ^
 
@copper.hat I hadn't realized this. Sorry.
 
@Christofian the only person that comment seems to deprecate is the speaker.
 
@Behaviour Ah. Well, kid is young.
He shouldn't even be running for moderator.
 
I can say that about many people.
 
4:07 AM
There are a great many people who shouldn't be running for moderator.
 
user61230
'tis why there's a primary and an election
 
and many great who are not :-)
 
Wow, we're saying the same things. Soon we'll be able to finish each other's...
 
@Behaviour: just how many pseudonyms do you have?
 
@MikeMiller ...sandwiches!
 
4:08 AM
Only one, but it changes with time.
 
i thought you could only do that once?
 
@copper.hat No.
 
@Behaviour Ah, but that's not quite true, is it? You've got old accounts, abandoned to time.
 
Every now and then.
 
i chose copper.hat in my privacy enhanced days, but should probably go by my real name
 
4:09 AM
@copper.hat Without tricks, one can change the display name once every 30 days. With tricks, as often as one wishes.
 
@Behaviour Yes, you're the trickmaster here.
 
now i'm really curious...
 
@MikeMiller Yeah, well. I don't talk about those.
 
Might I ask how long you've been an active member of the site, in some form or another?
 
i like intrigue. the cold war is over so all the good shows have stopped...
 
4:13 AM
@MikeMiller I joined for the first time sometime in spring 2012, if I remember correctly.
2
 
any folks familiar with smooth manifolds here? i had a noobie question on an answer i read today...
 
Ah, that's a year further back than I can find evidence of.
@copper.hat I'm familiar. What's up?
Oh, Ted's more familiar.
 
Hi @Mike @copper
 
in the answer they have some function $h$ that defines a patch
 
I'll bow out of this one, as holy moley I do not want to read that post
 
4:15 AM
oh, and @Pedro
 
it maps to \mathbb{R}^{n-k} and i was expecting to see the range to be R^n
hi ted!
excuse my pedestrian typing
@MikeMiller: i don't need to know about the whole post, just if there is some 'dual' way of expressing a patch/coordinate thing in manifolds that i haven't got to yet?
usually it is something like $\phi:U \to \mathbb{R}^k$ or the like, here they have $n-k$ instead of $k$.
 
I agree with you that it doesn't make sense from those few lines alone. I haven't read further to see if it does later.
 
You have to flatten $M\cap W$ out, so you're wanting to view it as a level set of a map to $\Bbb R^{n-k}$.
 
See, this is why I should be quiet.
 
so the patch is defined as the zero level set of $h$ or someting like this?
@TedShifrin
 
4:20 AM
You want a patch on $\Bbb R^n$, not on $M$.
There's always the implicit versus parametric game ....
 
@TedShifrin: i see, so the $h$ is an implicit description, that i what i was looking for!
much appreciated. this is the sort of thing that trips me up when learning...
 
You're not alone :)
 
@copper.hat I maintain that answer is poorly written, at least. But I'm also a dummkopf, which might make it worse.
 
:-). i used to have a collection of friends/colleagues with whom i could ask trivial questions, but that was many years ago and they have very dispersed time zones...
and i trip on very basic stuff, not so much the technical content as the underlying idea.
 
half the point of colleagues is to ask each other trivial questions...
the other half is to ask each other nontrivial questions, of course
 
4:24 AM
one line from ted saves me hours or rumination adn digging through lee
 
I haven't the patience or energy to read it.@copper.hat, it may be of some slight help to watch my YouTube lecture from last spring on this.
 
i will. i didn't expect you to read ti. you gave me all the pointer i needed.
much appreciated.
 
Sure thing.
Is @Pedro serving me sandwiches?
 
No, we're completing each others' sandwiches now.
 
i'm getting hungry now
 
4:27 AM
Well, it's past your dinner time.
 
There's an easy solution: eat sandwich anyway; become fat.
 
politicians do a lot of "serving sandwiches" around election time :)
 
luckily i still have some of my pot roast and mashed potatoes left over :-). time for wine! thanks again!
 
Night :)
oh, @skull is alive ...
 
4:30 AM
I have so much to do ... Exhausted :( Missed an important meeting by a day. Sigh..
 
Gonna write the retirement letter ...
 
Write the rec letters first :P
 
And grade the rest of the homework, write an algebra qual question and two finals (mostly done)
 
Eh, those are last priority. )
 
4:33 AM
@Christofian I rejected your flag.
 
@Alex !
 
@TedShifrin Hey there. :)
 
Back better?
 
I'd like to know how he flagged it
 
Is there a flag on the play?
 
4:35 AM
@MikeMiller he flagged another comment from the same user and explained what he meant
@TedShifrin I slept on a fold out couch last night, it was not a good choice :p
 
Oh, those kill me too, @Alex ... Someone kicked you out of bed? :D
 
@AlexanderGruber not as cool as a system exploit
 
System exploit?
 
I assumed he'd tricked the system so he could flag an otherwise unflaggable comment.
 
There are unflaggable comments?
 
4:38 AM
@TedShifrin i was visiting my parents in their rental cottage. They come down for a couple months every year to see me, and because it's Florida and they're retired.
 
On the election nomination page, yes, @TedShifrin.
 
ohhh @Alex
 
(and by every year I mean last year and this year)
 
i should see if there's anything good on the nomination page. Gnight all.
 
There's not, @Ted. Give it a few days.
 
4:42 AM
Anyway, @Christofian, you don't seem to be here, but mick was not being blatently rude, and although the part of the comment you highlighted is irrelevant, the comment on the whole is not. One could read into his intentions in many different ways, but when it comes down to it, none are offensive enough to warrant moderator intervention.
 
@AlexanderGruber Clap, clap, clap.
 
@PedroTamaroff danke danke
 
@robjohn Any idea about that integral?
 
@AlexanderGruber What have you been up to?
 
@robjohn Could you extend the complex integral into something real?
 
4:54 AM
oh, y'know; mass murer
 
@robjohn Or probably, could you approximate it? ( Which is the main question! )
 
@PedroTamaroff Not a whole lot, finishing up finals. Got a research idea.
 
@AlexanderGruber Nice.
 
Yeah, it'll be good to have something to do over break. Frees one of the dangers of enjoying his free time. :)
 
@AlexanderGruber Ah, summer break is lurking.
I am trying to decide what to study during summer.
Well, winter break for ya'll alls norther people.
 
4:57 AM
@PedroTamaroff study coarse geometry
 
@MikeMiller What is that?
 
@PedroTamaroff Oh wow. I forgot y'all had summer in the winter.
 
whereas a lot of the ideas of point-set topology are about local phenomena, coarse geometry is tailor-made to only notice the difference at global levels
 
@MikeMiller aw yes
 
@MikeMiller OK.
 
4:59 AM
two things are topologically the same if you can squish one into another; two things are coarsely the same if you can change the local data from one to the other; $\Bbb Z$ is coarsely equivalent to $\Bbb R$
 
That coarse geometry is cool stuff
 
where'd you learn it?
 
You can do them group lengths
 
@MikeMiller That's ugly.
 
yeah, @Alex, that's one place I know it's applied
 
4:59 AM
$\Bbb R$ is clearly superior to $\Bbb Z$.
Not as rings, however.
As rings $\Bbb Z$ is the runner up.
 
Also, Remmert talks about valuations on fields of meromorphic functions when he means discrete valuations, which makes me wonder if there are non discrete valuations on such fields. He shows the only discrete valuations on those fields are the order valuations times integers.
@MikeMiller Why does the guy speak of "...**the** fundamental group."?
 
he means the fundamental group of the manifold
 
I suspected so.
 
as you should
 
5:03 AM
the manifold!? There is more than one manifold!
 
Specially because I have a good ranking.
Muahahaha.
 
I was a part in making it. I'm so proud.
 
I'm baking empanadas at 2 a.m. Hope the smell doesn't wake my folks.
 
@PedroTamaroff Got you by one point buddy
 
@AlexanderGruber Yes. Now I hate you.
 
5:04 AM
as if you didn't before
 
@MikeMiller Alex is a groups guy. I love groups. Hence I love Alex.
Many of my friends don't like groups.
They share Atiyah's view on the classification of simple groups.
 
that doesn't make sense at all.
 
Such a shame.
 
5:18 AM
@PedroTamaroff You're wasting your time with groups.
You should be spending all your time on pseudogroups
 
5:34 AM
hello
quick algebraic geometry question if anyone would like to help
 
5:53 AM
@AlexanderGruber Ahoy, admiral.
I could try if it's simple enough @daOnlyBG, but can't guarantee I'd be helpful. But ask away.
@skullpatrol Long time no see.
Where've you been?
 
Hi pal :-)
 
Hi @KajHansen
 
Hey
 
Christmas shopping, do you like my new hat @BalarkaSen?
 
LOL. Yeah.
 
6:03 AM
Hi @KajHansen
 
Hey hey
Been doing analysis all day preparing for final.
 
I've faith in you
bedtime for me
 
Sheesh @Kaj. Good luck with that.
 
Later pal
 
6:04 AM
Mike is ignoring me. annoyed. Right when I need an algebraic topologist.
 
@KajHansen Nice. What topics?
I will surely sit for a final on Dec 23rd.
Heheheh.
 
Nothing too out there. Just the first 5 chapters of baby Rudin.
 
I've zero faith in Pedro.
 
I need to do the metric space chapter of Rudin.
 
Chapter 2 was my favorite
 
6:06 AM
I've been told to do that for months. But I didn't.
 
6:18 AM
hmmm, what meaning would that give to "negative faith" @MikeMiller?
disbelief?
 
I have [some transcendental number] faith in you.
 
That^ would be an irrational faith.
 
6:44 AM
@MikeMiller </3
 
Arthur Fischer commented on a deleted answer of mine, how can I respond? Should I undelete, comment, and redelete?
 
You must be regretting at the deletion of your answer, @regret.
 
I am not, that's why I'd like to keep it deleted :D
 
I was just making a pun :P
 
I know
I regret choosing this name, though
 
6:53 AM
Hi guys, can I ask questions here as well that are too trivial for their own question on the site?
 
I think so
 
hello
 
Heya!
 
are you a topologist?
 
Sadly not!
 
6:58 AM
do you know anything about it?
 
I do not
 
If I'm given the graph of f'''(x), how can I determine the points of inflection of f(x). Would they be located at x values where f'''(x) attains a max or min? Or what?
 
you have inflection points where f''(x) is 0, right?
so I think given f'''(x) you want to see when its integral is 0
 
Wait nvm my approach wouldn't work. And yeah, where f''(x) changes sign.
 
(see when the area under the curve of y=f'''(x) sums to 0)
 
7:02 AM
Thanks, let me think about that for a sec
I guess it's analogous to asking: given f'(x), where are the roots of f(x)
 
yes
you have to integrate to go from f' to f
 
hmmm why does that work?
 
FTC 1
 
Oh going from f' to f I understand
I meant finding the POI's by determining where integral of f'''(x) = 0
Ahhh I think I got it, thanks.
 
did that work?
$f'''(x)=\int _0 ^x f''(t) dt+C$
 
7:09 AM
(I'm not 100% sure because I haven't done integrals yet, I just know what they do.)
It's easier to visualize with f'''(x) being velocity as a function of time: v(t)
and
f''(x) being distance (displacement?) as a function of time: s(t)

The area under v(t) is distance, so when that area is 0, s(t) = 0, so t is a root.
 
yeah this is just FTC 1
 
haven't learned it yet, but thanks for the help definitely cleared things up for me
today tom cruise helped me with calc
 
and a skull said you have too many primes on your f :)
 
7:27 AM
oh right I meant $f''(x)=\int _0 ^x f'''(t) dt$
 
f' is speed, f'' is acceleration.
 
7:41 AM
Hello @TomCruise
 
are you a topologist?
 
Moi? I am studying algebraic topology.
 
I found an interesting open problem
 
OK?
 
Suppose $X$ is a connected space with the property that every nondegenerate closed connected subset is disconnected. Then is every proper subcontinuum of $\beta X$ nowhere dense?
 
7:47 AM
What is $\beta X$?
 
stone cech compactification
 
ah ok.
 
so assume $X$ is normal or something
so that $\beta X$ exists
 
right, assume whatever needed for X to have a compactification
 
very interesting question
 
7:50 AM
can't say that. i have no intuition for it to be true/false.
 
one interesting aspect is that nontrivial such spaces $X$ exist!!!
isnt that neat?
in other words, a space with more than one point such that every non-singleton connected subset is dense in it
and of course the space itself is connected
 
$X$ surely exists.
 
you think so?
 
i think you could look at some continuums.
that is the place to look for such spaces.
 
it is easy to get a T$_1$ example... take the cofinite topology on an infinite set.
but getting a normal or metric example is very difficult
 
7:53 AM
i am thinking of profinite topologies.
:P
 
profinite?
yes but it is not connected!
 
OK, I have an example.
I think.
@TomCruise I think a solenoid does the trick.
 
very good though, you see that totally disconnected spaces vacuously satisfy the property.
because there are no nondegenerate connected subsets
I am not familiar with that
 
@TomCruise Consider a solid torus. Call it $T_0$. Take a torus wrapped up twice inside it. Call it $T_1$. Take another torus wrapped twice inside $T_1$. Call it $T_2$. etc...
Now consider the space $\bigcap T_i$
That is called the solenoid (the geometric topologists interpretation).
It's clearly connected.
 
yes
but I think you could get some proper closed connected subsets
 
7:58 AM
Hmm. I doubt that.
My intuition comes from a different viewpoint though. The solenoid can be thought of as a nontrivial fiber bundle of S^1 and the cantor set, and the cantor set has the property you want.
 

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