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1:00 PM
Heh the asterisks in each \mathbb{R^{*}} were taken as delimiters for italics.
 
@robjohn with fundamental theorem of ... (unique prime factorisation) it is the harmonic series that grows logartimic
 
@robjohn something strange, $\frac{1}{|\Gamma(0.5+iy)|} = \frac{1}{\pi} |\sin(\pi (0.5+iy))| |\Gamma(0.5-iy)|$, function on the left is increases as $e^{\pi/2 |y|}$, function on the right seems bounded because $|\Gamma|$ is bounded by $C_1e^{-\pi/2 |y|}$ and sinus by $C_2\sqrt{\sin(0.5 \pi)^2+\sinh(\pi y)^2}$ and so increases as $e^{\pi/2 |y|}$ so term on the right is bounded I don't see where is the mistake
 
First time Chris'ssisterandpals posts a limit I can do
 
@caveman hehe. Hi.
 
1:03 PM
hello
 
@DominicMichaelis yes, the harmonic series grows logarithmically. Does that bear on what Chris's sister was asking about?
@Nimza In the answer I cited, $$\left|\Gamma\left(\tfrac12+iy\right)\right|^2=\frac{\pi}{\cosh(\pi y)}$$
 
Hmm, back up: Nimza is trying to bound the reciprocal of the gamma function?
 
@robjohn yes, I used it to say that $|\frac{1}{\Gamma(0.5+iy)}|$ increases as $e^{ \frac{\pi}{2} |y|}$
 
@robjohn yes $$\frac{p_1}{p_1-1}=\frac{1}{1-\frac{1}{p_1}}=\sum_{i=0}^\infty \frac{1}{p_1^i }$$
 
@Nimza yes, it increases like $e^{\frac\pi2y}$
@DominicMichaelis you need to put logs and exps in there to get what I said
 
1:10 PM
@caveman have you seen this one? Let $f:(0, \infty)->\mathbb{R}$ be continuous in $1$ and we know that $f(x^2)=f(x), \space \forall x\in \mathbb{R^{*}_{+}}$. I have to prove that $f$ is constant.
 
@Chris'ssisterandpals, I was about to say: sum over primes below n of log(p) = O(n)
 
@robjohn but function on the right seems bounded because at first $|\sin( \pi(0.5+iy))| = \sqrt{ \sin(\pi/2)^2 + \sinh( \pi y)^2}$ and increases as $e^{\frac{\pi}{2}|y|}$ and on the other hand $|\Gamma(0.5-iy)|$ on the right hand side decreases with the same speed
 
can be done elementarily
 
so lim x->1 of f(x^{2k}) = f(1) for all k
 
1:12 PM
@Nimza, you've already seen these, I take it?
 
I think that you can just make k large enough in terms of epsilon to show it's constant now
 
@J.M. what a nice link! You helped me very much! Thank you!
 
@Nimza Using the formula I cite above, you get that $\frac1{\left|\Gamma\left(\frac12+iy\right)\right|}\sim e^{\frac\pi2y}/\sqrt{2\pi}$
 
@robjohn right, but where is a problem with Euler reflection formula? Why doesn't it work?
 
@Nimza I got the formula I cite using the reflection principle
 
1:15 PM
@robjohn oh i missed the link
 
@robjohn oh, I don't know how. Estimate on sinus kills my formula. I mean, I wan't to apply it for general $x$, not necessary $0.5$ and I want to know where is the problem on this explicit example
 
@Nimza Ah, I see your problem: $\left|\Gamma\left(\frac12+iy\right)\right|=\left|\Gamma\left(\frac12-iy\right)\right|$
 
@caveman The root Latin is precisely where "sine" came from...
@robjohn I think that equivalence is somewhere in A&S...
 
@J.M. also $\Gamma$ is real on the real axis so they are conjugates
 
1:19 PM
@Chris'ssisterandpals, I'm feeling so tired today I cant bring myself to study, do have any advice
 
@robjohn quite right. :) I also meant there was an expression in terms of trig/hyperbolics. I suppose I now have to look up...
 
@robjohn ah, I've found a mistake, sorry. sinus increases as $e^{\pi |y|}$
 
@Nimza $i\sinh(y)=\sin(iy)$ increases like $\frac i2e^{|y|}$
 
right, so $|\sin(\pi(x+iy))|$ like $Ce^{\pi |y|}$
 
@Nimza yep
 
1:24 PM
If you remember the $\exp(iz)-\exp(-iz)$ bit, you're just effectively ignoring the decaying term, since you're considering large arguments anyway.
 
aha
 
@caveman some sleep can help :D
 
@J.M. Were you thinking of this one
 
@robjohn Ah, yes! I just got up for my A&S, and there it was. :)
 
@J.M. Yeah, I derived that in my estimate of the size of $\Gamma(x+iy)$ for large $y$
 
1:30 PM
@caveman and sometimes is good to take a longer break and stay away from doing math.
 
yeah
 
@Chris'ssisterandpals yes, good advice. one should decompress every so often.
 
while I agree - at this point I have to push myself harder than I'd like
 
@J.M. after the break I took when I came back and started to do some math I felt myself as powerful as Zeus :D
Full of ideas!
 
@caveman will it be worth the potential loss of sanity?
 
1:34 PM
@caveman but hard work doesn't necessarily mean to harm yourself.
 
I have nothing to lose
 
@J.M. Sounds good. A warm decompress.. a cup of tea
 
@robjohn It doesn't just sound good; it is certainly good! :)
 
@caveman Actually you lose all your efforts done so far.
 
just ajoke
 
@J.M. Heating water now :-)
@Chris'ssisterandpals I think he was referring to the loss of sanity
 
Is there some strategy to obtain lower estimates of absolute values of integrals of complex-valued functions?
I.e. is there some general way to obtain lower estimate on $\left| \int\limits_0^\infty f(x) dx \right|$ where $f(x) \in \mathbb{C}$?
 
@robjohn I know. The loss of sanity also means to lose all your efforts done so far because you probably cannot continue on your way.
 
exact sequences are best typesetted with a commutative diagram or ?
 
yes
 
1:44 PM
When I am lazy, I use xrightarrow
 
and when you're not lazy?
 
tikz
 
@DominicMichaelis Hello
 
By the way, do you know guys that went crazy due to mathematics?
 
1:46 PM
I have a question. When considering double integrals, how do you change the limits of the integrals in order to integrate in terms of x first instead of y first
 
@user43418 you can introduce the indicator function of set of integration. then your integrals are taken over the whole space and you change the order without thinking of changing limits
 
@Nimza I don't know anything general. Most of the methods I know are ad hoc.
@user43418 Equivalent to Nimza's approach, I tend to use Iverson brackets when changing domains.
 
@J.M. I will be thankful for any special method too, I have absolutely no ideas. More precisely I have to estimate the integral $\int\limits_0^\infty x^{z-1} f(x) \, dx$, it is the Mellin transform
 
@Nimza Oh dear, Mellin. No particular $f$?
 
So if I have $1 \leq x \leq 4$ and $\sqrt{x} \leq y \leq 2$ then we have: $1\leq x \leq y^2$ and $1 \leq y \leq 2$ ?
 
1:52 PM
(I believe Sasha would be the guy here who knows a lot about Mellin.)
 
@J.M. Decreasing at infinity and smooth. Any additional requirements are possible too
 
@J.M.
@Nimza
 
Oh, Sasha. I haven't ever seen him here
 
@user43418 Sounds right.
 
@J.M. Also Mhenni Benghorbal.
 
1:53 PM
@Nimza You should maybe ask a question on main and hope he sees it.
 
good
 
@Nimza @J.M. Thank you
 
@Nimza Tag it special functions and he might have a better chance of seeing it.
 
@robjohn thanks
 
@J.M. Mellin Transform falls under special functions, no?
 
1:57 PM
@robjohn Not really; , more like.
(I do recall having to do an inverse Mellin transform to answer a question here...)
 
@Nimza Ah, then then instead
@J.M. Thanks
 
@robjohn Aha
 
@J.M.: I am enjoying a warm decompressing tea in my MSE swag mug :-) very appropriiate.
 
@robjohn My nephew broke mine months ago. :( I wish there was a way to get a replacement...
BTW, what sort of tea?
 
@J.M. It is Tazo Organic Chai; I've added honey. Very nice
 
2:08 PM
Ah, the honey makes things even better!
 
Drawn this in paint :p
Star this if you like , so that others see this too.
 
sorry no stars for paint from me :D
 
@DominicMichaelis Yes you always draw in some other software .
 
math.stackexchange.com/questions/353924/… how can I generalize that to not approximate 0, but any vector?
 
for plots most time mathematica and else Tikz
 
2:15 PM
I have tried ALOT, however I have been unable to get it done
 
just take any vector;) once a professor asked what is an approximation of 5 and he said any number but 5
 
...
 
@CBenni, Kroneckers theorem
 
with approximate I mean with less distance than any epsilon
 
2:27 PM
@caveman I dont understand that one o.O
lets see if I find some information on it
 
meh
if I know my values are irrational, I am done anyways
then dirichlet is good enough
 
:/
 
the problem are the rationals
basically, I am trying to prove that a complex function has a max. of 2 periods
(if it is meromorphic)
I show that, if there were another period which is only a irrational linear combination, we have a limit point in 0.
 
@CBenni There's a thread on math.SE somewhere on this. Search the tag.
 
2:33 PM
however, for rational linear combinations, this fails (dirichlet gives us the null vector). Therefore, I dont have a limit point >_<
@J.M. I will take a look
 
A troublesome limit:
Let's consider $x_{n_{(n \ge 1)}}$ defined as
$x_n=\begin{vmatrix}
1 &1 &1\\
\sin\sqrt{n^2+1} &\sin\sqrt[3]{n^3+1} &\sin\sqrt[4]{n^4+1}\\
\cos\sqrt{n^2+1} &\cos\sqrt[3]{n^3+1} &\cos\sqrt[4]{n^4+1}\\
\end{vmatrix}.
$ Compute $\lim_{n\to\infty} x_{n}$.
I love insane things and this seems to be one of those.
 
2:50 PM
I asked a question that only got one answer, and that was from me – does anyone have any thoughts on whether it is suitable for mathoverflow?
 
post it, they wont mind
 
I'm never quite sure how hardcore something has to be before it counts as research-level :P
 
@BenMillwood Well, it has been more than a month. But be sure that you link to the math.SE version if you do repost to MO.
 
okay, that makes sense
@Chris'ssisterandpals: the determinant is a continuous function of the entries, so can't you just take the entrywise limit of the matrix and then work out the determinant of that?
(i.e. 0)
 
3:05 PM
Are there any operations beyond these six: addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, raising to powers, and taking roots?
 
@JohnMerlino, modular forms
 
what branch of mathematics does it fall under?
@caveman would logarithm count as an operation?
 
you decide
 
@BenMillwood I got the point. I think I saw a similar limit in the past but I simply cannot find it right now. (solved by Chris)
 
@JohnMerlino: "operation" can mean basically any function, depending on context, and there are lots of functions :)
 
3:18 PM
My focus would be algebra/calculus for now
 
@JohnMerlino: what are you intending to use the answer for?
 
the operations used in college-level algebra, but would be interested if that applies to calculus as well.
 
@JohnMerlino: yeah but I mean, what do you intend to do with The Complete List Of Operations once you have it (this will help me decide what I think is or isn't an operation in your sense)
@JohnMerlino: when you ask "would logarithm count as an operation?" the natural answer is "sure, why not?"
but if that's the way you answer that question then like I said, there are literally too many to count
maybe you want "commonly used"?
in which case that's not a maths question but possibly still an interesting one :)
 
I think basically anything that follows order of operations rules is what Im interested in
 
ah, ok, interesting
so roughly you're thinking "I'm going to come across some mathematical writing and I want to know all the things I should be aware of to be able to interpret it"
does that sound right?
 
3:26 PM
yep
 
well, if you're including calculus you might want to include integration and differentiation operators
like d/dx and ∫
otherwise I think you've covered all the major ones
you might be interested in "factorial"
i.e. $n!$
 
thanks
 
I dunno, there are a fair few niche things that may or may not ever come up
 
4:31 PM
Let $a,b,c$ be positive real numbers such that $c<a$. Suppose given is a thin plate $R$ in the plane bounded by $$\frac{x}{1}+\frac{y}{b}=1, \frac{x}{c}+\frac{y}{b}=1, y=0$$ and such that the density of a point $(x,y) \in R$ is given by $\delta(x,y)=x$. Compute the mass of $R$

I know that by definition $m(R)= \int\int_R f(x,y)dxdy$ and the definition of the density is mass/area ie $\delta(x,y)=\frac{\int\int_R f(x,y)dxdy}{\int\int_Rdxdy}$

But I am not sure how to proceed. First of all what is f(x,y) ? Is it equal to 1 ?
 
can someone help me with easy number theory question please?
how to show -3 is quad. residue of prime p if and only if p=1+6k
can you help me with this: can someone help me with easy number theory question please?
how to show -3 is quad. residue of prime p if and only if p=1+6k
can someone help me with easy number theory question please?
how to show -3 is quad. residue of prime p if and only if p=1+6k
can someone help me with easy number theory question please?
how to show -3 is quad. residue of prime p if and only if p=1+6k
can someone help me with easy number theory question please?
how to show -3 is quad. residue of prime p if and only if p=1+6k
 
4:48 PM
@MathproofP., don't do that
 
Woohoo a kitty.
I AM MELTING.
 
Its 36.1$^\circ$C here at 22:00 hours.
 
It's like 15 here.
I sweat like a pig that can sweat and is sweating a lot.
 
And yes, that temperature is after it rained in the afternoon.
 
4:57 PM
Like an hour ago.
 
This is on the library?
 
Yes.
The roof.
 
Nice.
 
5:19 PM
@JonasTeuwen Because one pen is never enough!
 
@PeterTamaroff A single pen always fails.
 
@JayeshBadwaik Not if it is a good pen!
 
that was a really really bad joke.
 
alright - here's the real question. suppose we've got a finite group $G$, let $K=G\times G$, denoting subgroups $G\times 1$ and $1\times G\leqslant K$ by $G_1$ and $G_2$ respectively, and denote by $\mathcal{S}_G$ the set of subgroups of $X$ isomorphic to $G$. now, given an $S\in\mathcal{S}_G$, can we find an automorphism $\mu_1(S)\in\operatorname{Aut}(K)$ such that image of the restriction of $\mu_1$ to $S$ is $G_1$? when can this happen?
is it all the time? it seems like it should be all the time (i want it to be all the time.)
 
What is $X$?
 
5:29 PM
what's an example of G not decomposable as a direct product other than G_1, G_2 as a subgroup of K?
 
@JayeshBadwaik that should have been $K$
@caveman right that's one thing i'm wondering
 
it sounds like there shouldn't be any, let G not decompose but G \le K not equal to G_1 or G_2... then we have a decomposition of $G = \pi_1 G \times \pi_2 G$
 
it seems like what we should be able to do is decompose $K$ by $\mu_1(S)\times \mu_2(T)$ where $T$ is the complete inverse image of $G_2$ under $\mu_1(S)$
in other words generalize the projection guys to depend on subgroup rather than coordinate
 
but isn't the observation about indecomposable G enough?
if G = A x A x B then given some G <= K = (AxAxB)x(AxAxB) you can easily construct an automorphism that puts it back to G_1
just swap around the A's, flip the Bs if necessary and then apply automorphisms per component if needed
 
Bel
5:50 PM
Hi everybody
I'm looking to generate a specific model
can anybody help me to do that
 
@PeterTamaroff Hello
 
that could mean anything
 
Do you know what will be the forms of the moments of inertia here ? -> math.stackexchange.com/questions/361342/mass-of-a-rectangle/…
It's a multivariable calculus question
Anyone ?
??????\
 
6:20 PM
Do you know that today is Leonhard Euler's birthday?
 
6:33 PM
@user43418 Hello. Who are you?
 
6:54 PM
For the calculation of $\int_0^b \int_{-\frac{c}{b}y+c}^{-\frac{a}{b}y+a} y^2dxdy$
Can I change the order of the integrals ? in order to integrate y^2
or do I have to iterate the integrals ?
 
user, integral of y^2 dx = y^2 integral dx
 
@caveman So I just integrate y^2 between 0 and b and then the other one right ?
 
7:19 PM
@JonasTeuwen I like the pens
Blahblahblahblah
 
7:53 PM
hi , someone can tell me how to solve this exrcise ?
2
Q: Exercise on measure theory

VrouvrouI have this exercise: from the book "Measure theory ; Donald L. Cohn" I don't know what $\sigma(...)$ is? Thank you.

i must use the "hint" to solve it , or the "hint" is a generalization of the exercise ?
 
@julien
 
@peter
 
@Charlie
 
8:14 PM
@peter
 
Spinoza had a geometrical method for ethics. :P
@GitGud Hey ho!
 
@GustavoBandeira Yo.
 
How are you?
 
A comment of mine was just deleted for no apparent reason. Who do I address about this?
 
@GitGud Master @robjohn
 
8:20 PM
@GustavoBandeira I'm OK. What about you?
 
I'm fine.
 
Is there such a thing as a super user on SE?
 
Is the set of all integers Z, closed because there are no limit points ?
 
@hyg17 What topology?
 
Oh, sorry. Z as in a metric space Z.
 
8:28 PM
Apparently super.SE is another branch of SE, one related to computers. What a dumb name.
 
If you're considering the usual topology on $\Bbb R$, the set has no limits points since every point is isolated, (just take a ball with radius less than $1$)
@hyg17 Just take a sequence it $\Bbb Z$. Can it leave $\Bbb Z$ in its limit?
@hyg17 OK, any metric space is closed "in itself".
That is, if $(X,\rho)$ is a metric space, $X$ is closed.
 
Ah, I see. Z as in a subset of $\BbbR^2$
 
@hyg17 As a subset of $\Bbb R^2$ it is closed, but not open.
 
Hmm ?! Are you implying that there is a set that is both open and closed ?
 
Well, you really want to talk about $\Bbb Z\times \{0\}$
@hyg17 Yes... $\Bbb R$ is both open and closed in $(\Bbb R,\|\cdot\|)$
In fact, in any metric space $(X,\rho)$; $X$ and $\varnothing$ are both open and closed.
 
8:33 PM
Okay, I'm chewing off a bit more than I can handle. I'll come back when I learn a bit more :)
Thanks for your help !
 
@hyg17 How do you define open and closed?
 
@GustavoBandeira where?
 
open : Every point of set S is an interior point.
 
@robjohn Dunno. I guess @GitGud knows.
 
closed : Every limit point of set S is contained in the set.
 
8:34 PM
@GitGud where?
 
@hyg17 OK.
 
@robjohn On here.
 
@hyg17 OK
@hyg17 Do you know about the discrete metric?
 
nope
I just started studying analysis on my own.
 
8:37 PM
@hyg17 Hmmm... and what have you studied before this? What book are you using?
 
I know up to abstract algebra, non-euclidean geometry, linear algebra and multivariable calculus. All self taught.
The book is Principle of mathematical analysis. 3rd Ed
 
@hyg17 Rudin, yes?
 
@hyg17 Pro!
 
yep
 
@hyg17 Rudin is a tough cookie.
If you haven't read about topology elsewhere, it would be good if you did so.
 
8:41 PM
Thank you so much for telling me that. I was suspecting that the book was too hard for me. But it's okay, I will just take my time working on this.
But I will think about taking a topology study/
Any recommended book ?
 
@hyg17 I liked "Introduction to Topology" by Mendelson.
 
Thank you. I will look into taht.
 
He treats Metric Spaces first (which are a special case of topological spaces)
I recommend chapters 2 and 3, and 5. From chapter 4, avoid "Homotopic paths" and beyond.
From chap. 5 you can avoid "Surfaces by identification".
 
9:07 PM
@robjohn Can you tell me why were my comments deleted?
 
9:19 PM
Hi would it be legitimate to ask a question that's more of an "understanding" what is required of me question?
 
@PeterTamaroff Duh?
 
@JonasTeuwen Dah?
 
I am a war monger.
I think. Don't know.
 
@JonasTeuwen You talking bout the Koreas?
 
:) sorry kinda new here , so someone asked me to prove that if $f,g \in \mathbb{R}_[x]$ are not zero polynomials and $q \in \mathbb{C}_[x] $ and f=gq that $ q \in \mathbb{R}_[x] $ well on one hand it seems obvious on the other I can figure out how to formally write this
 
9:25 PM
@PeterTamaroff No.
 
@Scis Write \Bbb C_{[x]} to get $\Bbb C_{[x]}$. If you want $\Bbb C[x]$ then write \Bbb C[x]
 
@PeterTamaroff ok thanks
 
Hi. Off topic and I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask such a question: I am citing a math theorem from a textbook in my thesis, but the notation is a bit different from what I have set up. For example, I use $a_n$ where the author uses $r_n$. When I cite the theorem, can I rephrase the author's theorem or should I cite it as it is and explain the differences?
 
@TheSubstitute Ideas transcend notation. But that's just my opinion.
 
@anon
 
9:35 PM
@Charlie yes
 
@anon nothing
}:)
 
@GitGud There were 4 comments that were deleted as offensive. None of the comments appeared offensive, but it appears that there were enough of these flags that the comments were all deleted.
 
@robjohn Is this automatic?
 
@GitGud if there are 3 flags, I think so. I am checking on that.
 
@robjohn How could those comments be flagged 3 times? That's impossible by chance.
 
9:41 PM
Impossible by chance.
That's a cool statement.
 
Not sure if it even makes sense. It would in my native language.
 
@GitGud Are you offending people?
 
@GustavoBandeira Who knows?...
 
@GustavoBandeira I am
 
@Charlie I'm sure you are. :P
 
9:47 PM
@GustavoBandeira claro que sim
esses cabra da peste...
 
Did y'all know that white noise is supposed to improve concentration?
 
@Charlie Se for alguma tentativa de imitação regionalista, a gente num usa tanto essa expressão não. XD
 
err
 
A última pessoa que eu vi usando isso - faz uns 10 anos. xD
 
@GustavoBandeira haha eu imagino, mas ninguém sabe
 
9:49 PM
Of course yes.
These goat plague.
 
@GitGud HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH NOT AT ALL
 
@Charlie Yes, google rules.
 
@GitGud VAI VER SE EU ESTOU NA ESQUINA
 
TEA WITH ME!
 
In algebra you can only add like terms (where variable and exponents are the same). Is the rationale for this because exponents by nature multiply copies of something?
 
9:51 PM
@GitGud Nice. I'll just open my synthesizers now!
 
intéressant!!
 
@GustavoBandeira HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH THAT WAS AWESOME
 
@Charlie That wasn't very nice.
 
@GitGud it was for me
 
@Charlie O que é: "The little stop of the big black guy"?
 
9:52 PM
@GustavoBandeira ?
 
@GustavoBandeira A pequena parada do negão.
 
A paradinha do negão. :D
 
@GustavoBandeira sabia
:P
@GustavoBandeira another, another
 
@GustavoBandeira this is a hand on the wheel
 
9:54 PM
Look: Each monkey in its branch. GRAPH THEORY!
 
Which one is, bro?
 
Qual é, mano?
 
You travelled on the mayonaise
 
could somebody help me on an answer I gave?
 
9:55 PM
Say: "Qual que é, véi?"
 
@GustavoBandeira wazza old?
 
Because I dont know if I gave the right answer..
 
@GitGud I downvoted this anwer because I judged it pathetic.
 
so can someone give an example of white noise
 
@pourjour the space sound
 
9:56 PM
(The price you pay for using windows...)
 
@GustavoBandeira Actually I think it's the best answer. But yeah, I prefer windows.
 
@GitGud But CBenni's answer is cool: math.stackexchange.com/a/299020/25805
 
@GitGud I have talked to the higher ups. If something nefarious was going on, hopefully they will be able to take care of it.
 
@Charlie like what can't get it
 
@robjohn The GOD-METAModerators?
 
9:57 PM
@robjohn Thanks for your time. I should say, however, that I'd delete the comments anyway. They're pointless now.
 
@pourjour neither do i
 
@skull hi mister
 
@JohnMerlino I don't understand your question.
 
@GitGud there were a lot of comments deleted, mostly by their authors.
 
9:58 PM
@Charlie hi senorita
 
ok I've already downlaoded the autumn winds nosie
it sounds like a broked radio
 
Brown noise is white noise with a High-pass filter.
 
@pourjour What's the link? I couldn't find free downloads.
 
@skullpatrol ¿cómo está?
 
@GitGud 2x^2 + 3ab – x^2 + ab is written as x^2 + 4ab because when using the addition operator, you can only add together like terms. Is the rationale of that because exponents are only worked with multiplication and not addition.
 
9:59 PM
This is nice.
Sound of the rain.
 
@GustavoBandeira really good
 
@pourjour The autumn wind is a raider
 
You cant add terms with different exponents
 

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