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12:00 AM
@robjohn @anon @PeterTamaroff bye
I am off now
 
@BenjaLim g'day
 
@robjohn yup
@robjohn straya mate
 
the only user that brings more orange to the chatroom than robjohn :)
 
@anon who?
is that me? @anon
@anon but @robjohn is yellow?
 
@BenjaLim your screen needs adjusting...
@anon how does BenjaLim bring orange to the chatroom?
 
12:04 AM
consider it a logic puzzle
 
@robjohn PINGING, ROB!!!
 
@PeterTamaroff But no one sees the orange when he pings me except me...
 
@robjohn He pings EVERYONE =)
 
@PeterTamaroff Now that is sort of what I was thinking anon meant
 
12:21 AM
@AlexYoucis Are you there?
 
@PeterTamaroff NO
:)
 
@AlexYoucis Heh.
I was going to ask something but I just answered it myself.
 
What's up?
 
It was über sillyness.
 
While aren't you the little mathematician :)
What are you studying?
 
12:26 AM
@AlexYoucis From Rudin, and from Jacobson.
 
It was that guy
over there
I think his name was John Tate
go challenge him to a math-off
 
@AlexYoucis Dude, his tutor was Artin.
 
Tutor?
Advisor?
 
Hm... what do you call it?
Yes, that.
 
Haha, Artin was pretty amazing, but Tate is at least of equal craziness
His thesis
has a name
 
12:30 AM
@AlexYoucis Am I wrong or do you start college earlier than I do in USA? (and other countries abroad?)
 
Don't you do some weird introductory year thing?
 
@AlexYoucis Yeah, I heard of "The Tate Thesis".
 
We start at 18
 
@AlexYoucis Oh, OK. Right.
 
I've never seen it prefaced with "the"
 
12:30 AM
We "lose" a year from the weird introductory year, then.
@anon " In it he used a translation invariant integration on the locally compact group of ideles to lift the zeta function of a number field, twisted by a Hecke character, to a zeta integral and study its properties." LOL
 
it probably should have had the outside of the scare quotes
PS, I just referred to you as "it"
@PeterTamaroff
 
@AlexYoucis Hey
@AlexYoucis I deleted the O(n) question
 
@BenjaLim Sup homie
 
@AlexYoucis I felt it was a stupid question
 
Why?
 
12:32 AM
@AlexYoucis Maybe I asked that question because I didn't agree with the way Lee did things
 
It wasn't stupid, I just think it may have been a little off-mark
i mean, it really reduced down to "which is easier to compute in general, the dimension of the kernel or the dimension of the image"
 
@AlexYoucis Yeah
@AlexYoucis Are you familiar with things like intersection numbers?
 
Sure
in what context, though?
 
Right because I'm reading Fulton
 
for curves, ok
 
12:35 AM
and I'm having difficulties getting my head around things like flexes
multiple points, etc
For example
 
what the hell is flexes? Also, why are you reading fulton and hartshorne concurrently?
 
@AlexYoucis I am not reading Hartshorne :)
I just looked at the section on projective curves in Hartshorne
because the bit in Fulton wasn't very inspiring
 
Sure. Can I suggest Miranda's Algebraic Curves and Riemann Surfaces, and a huge recommendation for Lorenzini's "An Invitation to Arithmetic Geometry"
 
@AlexYoucis You mean after fulton?
 
concurrently or instead of, actually ;)
 
12:37 AM
@AlexYoucis Well my supervisor wants to stick with Fulton
 
Ok, that's understandable
definitely look at them. Milne's (free) book on Elliptic Curves is good too--especially his whole (first) section on intersection numbers
 
oh shit really there's a section there on them?
 
I don't think there's a whole section
but he discusses them extensively
it's good
 
ah ok
@AlexYoucis Thanks perhaps I'll read there
 
Fulton and Harris are like best buds, so that guy probably has a predisposition for Fulton
 
12:39 AM
because I have to say that Fulton doesn't give much motivation for things
 
Nor will he ever--I don't like the book much personally
 
ok
@AlexYoucis I see milne uses the resultant
for intersection numbers
 
Sure.
 
the one I'm familiar with is the dimension of some quotient
@AlexYoucis Maybe I'll go and read milne
and I can have better questions to ask you then
@AlexYoucis How often do you come on chat?
 
Not that often now-a-days. I'm pretty busy recently (e.g. I have to videotape famous people give lectures tomorrow, bleh)
 
12:41 AM
ok
 
You can email me though if you want, although I don't know how productive that'd be
 
@AlexYoucis I'd like to stay in touch with you. I have facebook.
 
is your advisor not helpful?
 
@AlexYoucis He is, but I don't want to see him that often
I already see him like 4 times a week
 
Shit dude haha
When's the wedding? :)
How are your studies going, in general?
Ok
(removed)
(what is that)
 
12:44 AM
@AlexYoucis I added you on facebook
 
Dude, facebook is the worst place to reach me. I go on there like once every three months
 
maybe we can chat there
 
gchat may be better
 
ah ok
let me just say
that he says after we finish fulton he wants me to read hartshorne chap 1 in one month or so
 
Ok, go on.
 
12:45 AM
because I wouldn't be so bad having studied fulton
straight after the sem
and then he wants to start with hartshorne chap 2
I mean I am not afraid of the commutative algebra
I think my commutative algebra is ok
 
What are you again? A freshman?
 
no I am in third year
 
of undergrad
 
Dude, there is so much stuff to learn besides that
 
12:46 AM
@AlexYoucis What did you think I was? A grad student?
 
that one should learn before that i my opinion
No, an undergrad
 
ah ok
@AlexYoucis Other stuff like?
 
Do you understand where algebraic geometry came from? Do you understand what it's an analogy of? For example, do you know why locally free, locally free O_X-modules are important?
 
@AlexYoucis I don't know what an O_X module even is
 
Hmm. I guess what I'm saying is, it's easy to jump into Harshorne, it's just weird not to have done any of the classic stuff where it came from
doing Fulton is awesome
 
12:48 AM
Yeah I know
 
it's great, that's the basics of the algebraic side of things
 
there's almost zero comm. algebra
 
that will give you intuition about the more abstract stuff later on
 
You just need to get your hands dirty
 
but you also want to get the geometric intuition, the stuff coming from complex geometry
 
12:49 AM
@AlexYoucis For example I learnt algebraic number theory from Marcus
 
bleh, Marcus. Haha
 
@AlexYoucis I am taking a differential geometry course now
 
Using Lee though, right?
 
yea
My lecturer's notes are out of there
 
I was thinking more of something like this: mast.queensu.ca/~andrew/teaching/math942
or something on Riemann surfaces, or something
 
12:50 AM
dude that's like super advanced shit
 
Pause for a second
 
@AlexYoucis Also I have studied algebraic topology
I think I have enough prereqs
 
Enough prereqs for what?
 
hartshorne chap 2
 
You technically probably do, yes.
 
12:53 AM
@AlexYoucis I should go now, really lovely to talk to you but I would like to keep in touch with you on a more personal level.
 
Ok man, samesies. Email me at alex.youcis@gmail.com
 
you have gchat yea?
 
you betcha
:)
@AlexanderGruber Why do I care about the holomorph?
Got it friend!
 
send me a message via chat?
 
@AlexYoucis hmm, well $AGL_n(\mathbb{F}_p)$ is the holomorph of an elementary abelian group
 
12:57 AM
@AlexanderGruber Hmm, I'm not convinced. More?
:)
 
@AlexYoucis well one reason that's important is in the theory of solvable groups, because the minimal normal subgroups are elementary abelian
p-groups of maximal class also have a lot of holomorph-y stuff going on in them
 
@AlexanderGruber Hmm. Interesting. Have you ever had reason to use it?
 
@AlexYoucis the example i gave to prove this one bound is strict in my paper is a subgroup of a holomorph
 
@AlexanderGruber If I gave you a random group, how hard is it to find a nice representative for its isomorphism class
 
finite?
 
1:02 AM
Mhmm
 
depending on how big it is it can get pretty hard. usually i'd start by looking for direct factors, then identify its characteristic subgroups (center, fitting, frattini commutator)
then i'd take chief series of each sylow subgroups if it's solvable, otherwise first i'd look at a composition series
there's like a bajillion $p$-groups though, most of the time it's not really worth it to completely determine the isomorphism class.
 
Hmm, interesting.
Is there any semi-algorithmic way to find Aut(G)?
 
@AlexYoucis I was pretty amazed when I was given the definition of a derivative of a multivariable function in the Euclidean space as a map from $\Bbb R^n$ to $\operatorname{hom}(\Bbb R^n,\Bbb R^m)$! Although Rudin's previous discussion made it more natural.
 
@AlexYoucis in general that's a pretty hard problem.
 
@PeterTamaroff Really? The linearization of a function at a point?
 
1:09 AM
even for abelian groups you've got to do it module theoretically for the general case
 
@AlexYoucis Ah?
 
@AlexanderGruber That's true.
@AlexanderGruber What? haha
@AlexanderGruber Can I tell you something embarassing?
 
drum roll
 
@AlexYoucis there's a paper of hillar and rhae which has an algorithmic method for finding automorphism groups of finite abelian groups, it gets pretty nast-ay.
@AlexYoucis hit me
 
@AlexanderGruber My favorite trick, of all time, is the basic fact that if $N$ is normal $|G/N_G(N)|$ divides $(|Aut(N)|,|G|)$
I have used it 123423480-09834234912
times
 
1:12 AM
you've used it -9710811432 times?
:)
 
-:=*
 
@AlexYoucis if it's normal in $G$? lol
 
I hate you..so much
Actually, I have a question for you.
I know this is by no means advanced group theory. But, hear me out.
Every single book on algebra proceeds the same way to prove Sylow
and related theorems, and they, every time, reinvent the wheel
when they really could make everything two-lines
if they used the trivial lemma
"If $G$ is a finite $p$-group acting on a set $X$. Then, $\#(X^G)\equiv |G| \mod p$"
Why don't they?
*finite set $X$
 
what's the $#(X^G)$ denote?
 
fixed points
 
1:17 AM
oh, they don't use that generally?
 
Not books like D&F
they do, but "secretly"
 
that is used for proving existence of Hall subgroups too i think.
(in solvable-town)
 
Right, that is true.
God, I need to go back to solvable town.
Also, I'm always asking you math questions. Why don't you ever ask me math questions? I feel like a moocher.
 
i love solvable town, it sucks outside of there.
probably because i know dick about algebraic geometry. :p
 
I know other stuff too though!
 
1:20 AM
are you good in complex?
 
>:)
yes
 
i'll have to hit you up when i'm miserably failing at my homework this weekend then ;)
 
Do it dude.
I'm all about complex
 
it took me about 8 hours to prove that the 0's of analytic functions are discrete a few days ago
 
Haha, that really has more to do with the fact that holomorphic functions are real analytic
well, I guess that might have been obvious depending on what your definition of holomorphic is hah
 
1:22 AM
i assume that does not mean "extremely analytic"
 
Haha, no it means locally expressible as a power series in x and y
 
oh yeah yeah, right
which book did you use?
 
When I learned complex?
 
1:24 AM
ohh! is that the same conway who did combo groups?
 
No, that's John H Conway haha
 
aw. haha
well did you like that one? i am using palka and i'm not sure how much longer i can deal with it
 
Yeah, I really liked that one. Except for the integration part. But it's pretty good for other parts.
I hope that doesn't sound as silly as it does to me now
 
the entire book is a single wall of text with barely any paragraph breaks or sectioning, and every theorem has like 35 hypothesis. oh and it's in typewriter.
 
@AlexanderGruber....you may not like Conway on second thought..
Conway just regained 5 points
 
1:27 AM
hahaha
good lord
 
It's a shame. I feel like complex analysis teachers or books are never inspiring as they should be
 
why does anybody even want to integrate anything
 
you'rejokingright
 
only about 75% :p
 
what;s that other 25% doing
ಠ_ಠ
 
1:30 AM
thinking it's an awful lot of bother to obtain expressions what generally aren't much more enlightening than $\int f$ was in the first place
 
The point of integrals, at least in the most basic sense, in complex analysis is that they allow you to deduce regularity.
If you can prove something is the integral of something
 
hallo
 
that's good, because integrals don't pick up tiny bad parts
and so your function has to be relatively nice
@Charlie Sup man
 
@AlexYoucis all fine, and ya?
 
Pretty good man
 
1:31 AM
@AlexYoucis i guess that's a good way of putting it.
 
good :)
@AlexanderGruber what about you, Alex, how are you?
 
i still lack a lot of motivation for the subject though, a lot. and i wish i didn't - even at the most basic sense i still struggle to care about complex functions at all, but other people certainly seem to like them.
@Charlie i'm not bad. i'm at a convention!
 
@AlexanderGruber interesting
 
@AlexanderGruber I mean, at least from a naive point of view, it's a natural question to ask. We want to do calculus on R^2, but since R^2 happens to come with a nice field operation what happens if we try to do "one-variable R analysis" in C, formally replacing all x's with z's
why it's interesting is a different question though
you'll be happy to hear that complex analysis is, in some sense, the most algebraic analysis
 
@AlexYoucis yeah, that's why i chose that one as my gateway drug. :)
 
1:35 AM
@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez I heard Illia and Lugones were impossible today!
 
@AlexanderGruber Algebraic geometry, in some sense, is just the result of abstractifying parts of complex manifold theory to other base fields
 
@Charlie i've got a friend who's a creative director for some comic project who's up here to talk about his work, i had nothin to do so i tagged along
 
@AlexanderGruber Cool!
 
Good. $163$ appears in my rep.
 
Goodbye everyone
 
1:38 AM
@AlexYoucis there may be something rebellious in my spirit, but a lot of what seems interesting to me in complex analysis so far seems to be things others want to avoid. i was excited to study non-rectifiable curves, but most of the chapter spent time talking about how to avoid them.
@AlexYoucis haha later man
 
@AlexYoucis Bye!
 
@Ethan have you been at UCLA for classes at all?
 
@robjoh No =/
 
@Ethan Ah. I didn't know when that would occur
 
1:53 AM
@robjohn I have been trying to write my own proof of dirichlets theorem with out characers, I was able to show if, $$\lim_{s\to 1}(s-1)\sum_{n=0}^\infty\frac{\mu(an+b)}{(an+b)^s}=0$$, then the primes in coprime residue classes have dirichlet density $\frac{1}{\phi(a)}$, I eventually found a way to solve for $$\sum_{n=0}^\infty\frac{\mu(an+b)}{(an+b)^s}$$ in terms of a system of equations, and I could show it was $O(1)$ so long as the system was solveable
But the eigen values turned out to be precisely the dirichlet L functions with characters modulo a
So to show the determinant was non zero I had to show they didn't vanish... lol, math.stackexchange.com/questions/353506/matrix-inversion-help.
wasted alot of time sofar
I got this, though $$\sum_{p \equiv b \text{ mod a}}\frac{\ln(p)^2}{p^s}+\sum_{pq \equiv b \text{ mod a}}_{p\ne q}\frac{\ln(p)\ln(q)}{(pq)^s}=\frac{1}{\phi(a)}\frac{1}{(s-1)^2}+O(\frac{1}{(s-1)})$$
sofar by elementry means
So I can show, atleast half of the coprime arithimetic progressions contain infinitely many primes
Its remarkably easier to obtain results on semi primes, then it is primes
@robjohn Did jasperloy leave math se?
 
@Ethan yes he did
 
Why?
 
@Ethan he was wanting it a long ago.. i think he wants to focus more on his life
 
2:43 AM
@Charlie Vamos encher a cara. :P
 
@GustavoBandeira não, valeu, eu não bebo
 
@Charlie Eu também não.
 
@GustavoBandeira bom
 
Era uma piada.
 
hmm...
 
2:45 AM
Hmn.
 
:P
 
E aí, o que faz?
 
@GustavoBandeira tá fazendo?
@GustavoBandeira dando uma olhada nuns negócio de hebraico
 
Tô revisando math.
 
bom
 
2:47 AM
Ontem eu vi um vídeo de um tio que lançou um livro.
Ele alega que os números complexos são errados.
E que $1/0=\infty$
 
ai....
 
Além de outras coisas bonitas. :P
É Hebraico que não tem vogal?
Parece que as vogais são deduzidas, coisa assim.
 
@GustavoBandeira não não tem, são "pontos", na linguagem escrita usual elews são omitidos
בְּ רֵ אשִׁ ית בָּ רָּ א אֱ ֹלהִׁ ים אֵ ת הַ שָּ מַ יִׁ ם וְּ אֵ ת הָּ ָרֶ ץ
 
São quantas vogais?
 
@GustavoBandeira são os mesmos sons aeiou
mas são várias representações
 
2:52 AM
É uma dedução minha, mas eu acho que uma vogal é um som produzido na garganta e depois filtrado pela boca (sem interrupções).
Então cê tem infinitos formatos pra filtrar o som com a boca.
 
@GustavoBandeira sim concordo
 
Tem uns idiomas que tem como se fossem dois e's.
É dificílimo pra a gente distinguir.
 
é
 
Tem até um filtro pra sintetizador, o formant filter.
 
Poxa, já tá tarde..... Vou me recolher. Boas noite @gustavo :D
 
2:56 AM
Oky.
Boa noite.
 
:)
 
 
1 hour later…
4:03 AM
@Ethan It appears so :-(
@Ethan I've never investigated Dirichlet's Theorem... interesting.
 
4:20 AM
@robjohn What kind of math do you do?
 
5:18 AM
@Ethan Fourier Analysis, I guess.
 
5:48 AM
@amWhy Hello!
 
pen
@gustavo Hi!
 
@pen You're a pen now.
How do you feel about people using you to write?
 
pen
@GustavoBandeira I feel great!
 
How are you doing?
 
pen
@GustavoBandeira Just spreading my ink around.
 
5:54 AM
=)
What are you studying?
 
pen
@GustavoBandeira Addition.
 
Addition of what?
 
pen
@GustavoBandeira Numbers ^_^
 
What kind of numbers?
 
pen
@GustavoBandeira 1,2,3,4...
 
5:57 AM
I guess it doesn't make sense.
Unless it's about some avanced aspects of addition.
 
pen
@GustavoBandeira 1 + 1 = 2
 
One of the proofs of this has ~362 pages.
Which seems to be a flawed proof.
Dunno.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:05 AM
@Ethan Fourier Analysis, Discrete Math, whatever I've found interesting in the past seveal decades...
 
Fourier Analysis is surely interesting! 8-).
Lately I eat singular integrals for breakfast.
Change of square functions are quite tasty results.
@robjohn It is time you found functional calculi interesting! So then you take an unbounded operator and the analytic function on a sector $z \mapsto \sqrt{z} \exp(z)$ and plug in $L$!
And then you are like holy cow, it is a bounded operator.
 
7:25 AM
@JonasTeuwen: here's a question for you: is $\sqrt{x^2-1}$ an even or an odd function?
 
7:37 AM
9000 hours later...
 
@JonasTeuwen Is this true for any $L$, or just those with certain spectra?
@skullpatrol :-D
 
@robjohn };-D
 
@skullpatrol Just under the wire on that edit :-)
 
@robjohn yipyipyip
:-)
 
@skullpatrol I don't think I'm going to get an answer to either question.
 
7:49 AM
mh very very strang
someone flaged an answer as not an answer and i flaged it with invalid flag, and my "invalid flag" was disputed with the comment "disputed - flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer"
 
@DominicMichaelis Odd...
 
In fact non of my invalid flags were helpfull at all, which is kind of strange I think
 
@DominicMichaelis That doesn't seem like what should happen...
 
should I ask in meta about it ?
 
I'd say yes.
Not that I can be considered a M.SE authority.
 

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