The Bridge

alexanderpas

14:00

that is, how long?

Mechko

1 hour :-p

alexanderpas

timezone difference is funny ;)

Mechko

hehehe I can do a chat injection attack on the 'starred' stuff.

I think.

anyways. peace out

alexanderpas

you can edit your own chats for 2 minutes.

Mechko

yes, but I noticed that my comment got starred and the edit showed up.

so I could potentially completely change the contents of the chat. if I wanted to misinform

but I guess there's no significant reason to abuse that

alexanderpas

14:03

within the first two minutes, yes, and stars can always be removed.

Mechko

meh it's a futile attack, but it was amusing. To me. but I have a fail sense of humor anyways, so it doesn't mean much.

kbai4realz

alexanderpas

ceilingcat is watching you gaming.

tzenes

14:25

gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/…

Arda Xi

voted

tzenes

ty

Arda Xi

wait, rts is a synonym for real-time-strategy by role-playing-game is a synonym for rpg?

tzenes

yeah, that was a dumb one

expanded form should always be the standard

Arda Xi

well

what about PC

should we tag that personal-computer?

alexanderpas

14:28

rts vs. tbs

Mechko

no PC is right. @tzenes: See? Its the exception that proves the rule

alexanderpas

just like RPG

tzenes

what?

alexanderpas

RPG games is correct, right?

tzenes

no I get that alexander I mean rts->real-time-strategy is correct

role-playing-game going to rpg is wrong

acronyms are bad

Arda Xi

14:30

remember what jeff said about game-rec?

alexanderpas

rpg matches with mmorpg

Arda Xi

acronyms are usually the standard

tzenes

acronyms are broke

Arda Xi

otherwise we have to tag questions with massively-multiplayer-online-role-playing-game

tzenes

or just mmo-role-playing-game

Arda Xi

14:31

or just mmorpg

tzenes

mmorpg can be the name of a game

what's worse, what if it is the name of a popular game

acronyms are broke

Arda Xi

what

alexanderpas

game developpers aren't stupid

Arda Xi

who would call a game mmorpg?

or rts

tzenes

Rorry The Squirl

Arda Xi

14:33

by that logic, massively-multiplayer-online-role-playing-game could also be the name of a game

tzenes

it is less likely

Arda Xi

no it isn't

tzenes

there are more possibilities for an acronym

Arda Xi

it's just as likely

very very very unlikely

tzenes

how is that just as likely?

alexanderpas

14:33

Random Technology Shooter

Arda Xi

they both already have an established meaning

tzenes

and that stops people from reusing them?

Arda Xi

yes

tzenes

First person shooter, frames per second

we've already had this debate

Arda Xi

that is an unfortunate exception to the rule

tzenes

14:34

there is no barrier

why is that an exception?

its an example which proves the rule is broke

Arda Xi

no, it's the exception that proves the rule

there's no developer in their right mind that will call their game rts of rpg

alexanderpas

Frames per second -> framerate

tzenes

no, it doesn't prove the rule

Arda Xi

my point is, it doesn't disprove the rule

tzenes

it proves that acronyms are reused sometimes

Arda Xi

14:35

it doesn't prove they will be

alexanderpas

sigh belongs on the other meta!

Arda Xi

which is what you're implying

@alexanderpas this is meta

tzenes

if they have been, they can be

Arda Xi

and this works a lot faster

tzenes

if we all die right now, nothing will be reused

that's a specious argument

Arda Xi

14:36

yours is too

any tag can be reused

PC could mean something different

3D could mean something different

tzenes

Anything could

Arda Xi

exactly

tzenes

somethings are more likely

Arda Xi

so we shouldn't base our strategy on what could happen

tzenes

on the contrary, we should play the odds

Arda Xi

14:37

it is not at all likely that anyone will re-use a popular gaming acronym ever again

tzenes

since its happened before I don't see how you can say its unlikely

Arda Xi

I still don't think we should tag questions with massively-multiplayer-online-role-playing-game

the big bang happened before

alexanderpas

it's impossible

Arda Xi

do you expect it to happen again next week?

alexanderpas

26 chars.

tzenes

14:38

I don't think -role-playing-game part of massively-multiplayer-online-role-playing-game is necessary

its usually not necessary to include that part

Arda Xi

sure is, there's other kinds of mmos

tzenes

I expect new games to come out next week

yes, but you can tag both mmo and rpg

Arda Xi

mmofps for example

tzenes

you don't need them smooshed together

Arda Xi

and you expect a new game from a developer that has never heard of the acronym rts?

tzenes

14:39

I'm willing to bet there already is one

I don't think most game developers think of what the acronym is for their game when they make it

its existance isn't the issue

alexanderpas

even then, the game name would be written in the long form

tzenes

the issue is popularity

right, because one of them has to be written in long form

there is no reason both couldn't

Arda Xi

besides, we can always decide to change our tagging strategy later

tzenes, there is

tzenes

that's always true

Arda Xi

a 26 char limit

tzenes

14:40

which we can abbreviate to get around

alexanderpas

[real-time-stategy] matches with [turn-based-strategy]

tzenes

you mean they're synonyms?

Arda Xi

you're against abbreviation, unless it's better to abbreviate

I don't get it anymore

tzenes

I'm against acronyms

alexanderpas

[rpg] matches with [mmorpg]

tzenes

14:41

not abbreviations

and there is no reason mmorpg shouldn't be two tags

alexanderpas

acronym role playing games, no acronym for RTS

Arda Xi

massively-multiplayer-online is still more than 26 chars

alexanderpas

search mmorpg will not find [mmo] [rpg]

Arda Xi

that too

tzenes

it could if we place a synonym

Arda Xi

14:43

you can't place a synonym to two tags

alexanderpas

search mmo or rpg will find [mmorpg]

tzenes

that maybe a limitation of the technology

Downvoter

Hello

Arda Xi

not really, seems perfectly natural to me

tzenes

hi Juan

Downvoter

14:44

could you read this and comment your thoughts in the post?

Downvoter

5

A: Voting on the future of list of X questions

I think the major flaw in list questions is not only the size, but the approach that we take. I completely disagree with the popular approach of "one-per-answer" polling for list questions. I know, everyone loves the fun of the rating system that you can simulate with votes. However, I believe it...

Arda Xi

careful, there's a hot debate going on :)

Downvoter

oh, I can't stay

Downvoter

too much work today sadly

Arda Xi

we're discussing whether or not to rename mmorpg to massively-multiplayer-online-role-playing-game

Downvoter

14:44

lol

alexanderpas

it's not possible! sigh! ;)

Downvoter

synonyms FTW

Arda Xi

I know

yeah, but we're talking about which should be the synonym

Mechko

if only this were taken more to heart

tzenes

I don't think we should

you're just being a jerk

Arda Xi

14:45

so anyone who disagrees with you is a jerk?

tzenes

my argument was that acronyms are inheirently broke

no, you're metioning a subject of what we were arguing about

Mechko

oh no I agree that acronyms is broke

tzenes

and I don't mean that offensively

Arda Xi

it's impossible to not use acronyms

Mechko

I also agree that Arda's statement from way back, that we shouldn't base our strategy on what could happen should be taken more to heart

tzenes

14:46

I believe there are alternatives

alexanderpas

it's [real-time-stategy], [turn-based-stategy], [rpg], [mmorpg], [framerate], [fps] etc etc etc (I'm willing to discuss [fps])

Arda Xi

StackOverflow uses vb, not visual-basic

and C#, not c-sharp

alexanderpas

also, no personal attacks!

tzenes

C# is actually its name

Arda Xi

the vb argument still stands

tzenes

14:48

I don't like rpg

I understand the precidence, but it also has tags that aren't acronyms

Arda Xi

I could go on, sql instead of structured-query-language

alexanderpas

microsoft calls vb vbasic in the msdn url

tzenes

what's more it doesn't have to deal with the existence of new games

Arda Xi

I'm talking about SO, our example site

basically our parent

tzenes

sql has become a noun

Arda Xi

14:49

it's the best basis we have to go on

alexanderpas

just like rpg

tzenes

that doesn't make it right

Arda Xi

so has RTS and all the others

at least among gamers

what..

tzenes

sql has become a noun amongst non-programmers

Arda Xi

errm..

antony.trupe

14:50

but it's meaningless most of the time

alexanderpas

RPG is beyond gamers.

Arda Xi

I don't think there are many non-programmers whom know SQL

tzenes

Both my parents, my last 3 girlfriends, I could go on

its a big deal in business

Arda Xi

same goes for RPG I'm sure

alexanderpas

how about the [jrpg] tag ;)

tzenes

14:50

none of the afformention would have known RPG

antony.trupe

could they distinguish a sql statement from a java statement?

tzenes

no, not in a million years

let me take another example

Arda Xi

but you're switching arguments all the time, nobody can give sql a new meaning because everyone knows it?

then the same thing would go for RPG surely

tzenes

google queries for sql: 91million, structured query language 400k

alexanderpas

exception: military

tzenes

14:52

sql is the standard

by comparison

stats for rts: 21 million

alexanderpas

STRUCTURED query language

tzenes

realtimestrategy: 62 million

antony.trupe

sequence?

tzenes

sorry I wrote that out wrong

my typo

alexanderpas

edit typo

Mechko

14:53

honestly, I don't think it's a big deal

tzenes

real time strategy is the standard

antony.trupe

how much rep do you need to be able to edit other people's chat messages?

tzenes

though, not as by much

Arda Xi

rpg: 57m, role playing game, 30m

tzenes

its not a big deal

Mechko

14:53

I don't think we'll have another rpg or rts in gaming

tzenes

we're arguing philosophy

Arda Xi

google results are irrelevant

tzenes

agreed

Arda Xi

no we're not

alexanderpas

how about a tbs?

tzenes

14:54

tv station

Arda Xi

we're arguing whether or not to abbreviate tags

tzenes

no

that is not what we're arguing

alexanderpas

[turn-based-stategy]

tzenes

I have no problem with abbreviations

Arda Xi

in your case, about whether an acronym could potentially be re-used somewhere in the future, and whether that is at all relevant

tzenes

14:54

only acronyms

alexanderpas

if tbs is not known enough, we should not abreviate real time stategy.

Arda Xi

but instead you keep coming up with a red herring

antony.trupe

are't acronyms a subclass of abbreviations?

tzenes

yes

Arda Xi

@alexanderpas the two are not dependent on each other

tzenes

14:55

I have no problem with the superset

Arda Xi

an acronym is an abbreviation

antony.trupe

so if you're ok with abbreviations, you're necessarily ok with acronyms

alexanderpas

@ArdaXi they are if you're trying to be consistent.

Arda Xi

@alexanderpas then we have to be consistent with every tag

tzenes

I think acronyms are broke, the same is not true for the super set of abbreviations, or the super set of all words

Arda Xi

14:56

and we get back to the [massively-multiplayer-online-role-playing-game] problem

antony.trupe

ok, now I understand

tzenes

which I suggested has a solution

Arda Xi

the alternative is broken too

tzenes

abbreviating part of it

or breaking it into smaller tags

Arda Xi

you only proposed breaking it up in two tags

which are still too long

tzenes

14:58

I did previously suggest abbreviating part of it

alexanderpas

@ArdaXi that depends on the size of the set. [mmorpg] is required by limits, so [rpg] is consistent with it.

Arda Xi

but what about, for example, wcf on so

tzenes

if you'll scroll back up

Arda Xi

there are not a lot of programmers who know what wcf means

yet it is abbreviated on SO

tzenes

windows communication foundation?

Arda Xi

14:58

yes

Mechko

This is phuckin english. it's not a consistent language!

Arda Xi

wcf is specific to .NET, so many programmers won't know anything about it

tzenes

as I've mentioned before Stack Overflow is not infallible

Arda Xi

I just think that abbreviating everything is much more manageable than not doing so, if we want any kind of consistency

antony.trupe

I think it only needs to be unambiguous and understood by those already 'in'.

Mechko

14:59

then again most programmers with a question about its about?

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