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3:06 PM
*knock* *knock* *knock* Leonard?
*knock* *knock* *knock* Leonard?
*knock* *knock* *knock* Leonard?
What, italics don't work in multiline? That's just stupid.
 
@Powerlord This is like the fifteenth time you realize multiline posts don't do formatting. That's just stupid.
 
@badp I was aware certain kinds of formatting didn't work in multiline posts, not all kinds of formatting.
These types of things tend to be more obvious when they're documented somewhere.
 
Nothing works except: whole-post quoting and whole-post code formatting. To do those put a > or four spaces on every single line. Including those that would otherwise be empty.
 
@badp So, in other words "multiline posts don't do formatting" except when they do?
 
They only do paragraph formatting.
 
3:14 PM
There's a certain irony with you calling me stupid then pointing out a few posts later that what you said in the line calling me stupid was wrong.
takes screenshot
 
0
Q: Where can I catch the different types of fish?

ManaI'm currently trying to obtain the best equipment possible in preparation for the final boss and the survival dungeon. However, in order to do so, I need to take on a challenge of a...decidedly different nature from anything else in the game. I need to spend my time fishing. Unfortunately, it se...

posted on August 04, 2011 by Ratz

Does anyone know, or have some speculation, as to what the "New Biome Code" in Minecraft 1.8 means? Will this change the number or types of biomes, or will it change the way the transfer into each other, or something else entirely?

 
@Lazers @Mana Have you tried as a lure?
 
THAT ANSWERS NOTHING
I HATE YOU SO MUCH HATE HAAAAAAAATE
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR‌​RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG‌​GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAA‌​AAAAAAAAAHHhh
 
@Mana There's a for that. ;)
 
0
A: Can someone formulate a clear description of the ending of Limbo?

MakailaI totally agree. I think that they fell out the tree house and the sister landed first. And at the end if you look past where the sister is sitting theres the ladder and then a big tree with wooden "steps" on it...It also leads me to thinking its a Tree House because at the end Menu if you look u...

man, this question...:/
 
3:19 PM
@Powerlord Tsk. What's stupid is your not seeing the "NO U" snowclone in action. You know fully well I didn't mean it :P
Also, ever heard of "writing something down helps you understand it better"?
 
TF2 != Halo, kthxbye
 
ah, the pains of summer, including youtube videos
 
1
Q: Are you interested in beta testing games?

Brett White ΨYesterday, Alex Miller posted over on Meta.SO about a potential match-making service between our developer and user communities (namely Android, Apple and gaming enthusiasts). You can check out his original post, but the gist of it is that we have great developers and user communities on the site...

 
@Lazers Yes.
 
3:36 PM
95
Q: How can I tell if a corpse is safe to eat?

Kaestur HakarlI am playing a human wizard, and I just killed a monster, leaving a corpse on the ground. How do I tell whether it is safe to eat this corpse? I leave the monster unspecified because I am interested in "how can I figure out whether this is edible," rather than whether any particular monster is e...

I want this on a t-shirt.
Also, that question needs 5 more upvotes.
@GraceNote I just noticed this, do you mind if I add in the more technical details of rotting? That is, the amount of turns a corpse stays guarenteed safe to eat?
 
@ArdaΞ While a usable statistic of sorts, I've generally always preferred to recommend "never eat unless you just made that corpse" over tracking the actual rot rate.
Go ahead if you'd like though.
It'll bump the question and that's a win in my book.
 
0
Q: Would you like Gaming.SE merch with "classic" questions on them?

Brett White ΨOne thing the Gaming.SE has that other SE's don't seem to is an abundance of eye-catching, peculiar questions that, when taken out of context, are hilarious. These questions get a ton of views and get quickly linked and shared among communities (at least among the six members of CHAOS here at SE)...

 
@GraceNote Me too, but even a cursed corpse is completely safe to eat for 32 turns, and will only cause food poisoning after 48.
 
@ArdaΞ Generally, unless you're insane or a priest, you don't bother to check the beatitude of a corpse you just made. But that is a fair point indeed.
 
@GraceNote That's why I assumed cursed.
 
3:46 PM
Cursed just has a chance of reducing the satiation gain, unless it's a Wraith corpse, but otherwise there's not so much an issue there, if I'm not mistaken. I might be confusing it with nother system, though.
 
@GraceNote Nope.
 
@ArdaΞ So, nope, I'm wrong, or nope, I'm not mistaken?
 
A cursed corpse rots two turns earlier, and a blessed corpse rots two turns later.
if (mnum != PM_LIZARD && mnum != PM_LICHEN) {
		long age = peek_at_iced_corpse_age(otmp);

		rotted = (monstermoves - age)/(10L + rn2(20));
		if (otmp->cursed) rotted += 2L;
		else if (otmp->blessed) rotted -= 2L;
	}
 
so I now also own Osmos and Revenge of the Titans and Cortex Command. Everything they could do to make me pay more than I have, I guess.
 
Oh, so no negative effect on actually eating it.
 
3:51 PM
It's just, what's the next cool number after pi?
 
@badp Phi? Tau?
@GraceNote Nope.
 
Hrm... I can redeem Steam codes while in offline mode?!
 
@badp I thought you already asked this
 
@GraceNote I also think I do.
 
2
Q: What's the next awesome number after π?

bad πToday, I was foolish enough to use the rollback button. Now on stack overflow I no longer have 3 silver badges and 14 bronze badges. My joy in opening the website every day in a pinned tab in Chrome is severely diminished now. FML I know that badges once given can't be taken away. What's the nex...

 
3:53 PM
@GraceNote So that makes $4.67 I guess
 
@badp Try putting the answer to whether a corpse is safe to eat on the back of a t-shirt.
 
@ArdaΞ "If your pet ate it, it was safe."
 
@badp Pet Yellow Dragon
 
@badp What if it died?
 
@GraceNote "If your cat ate it, it was safe."
 
3:59 PM
@badp But my cat is a Yellow Dragon now
 
@GraceNote Then it's no longer a cat.
 
95
Q: How can I tell if a corpse is safe to eat?

Kaestur HakarlI am playing a human wizard, and I just killed a monster, leaving a corpse on the ground. How do I tell whether it is safe to eat this corpse? I leave the monster unspecified because I am interested in "how can I figure out whether this is edible," rather than whether any particular monster is e...

What do you think?
 
@badp But it's got my cat's name, so it's gotta be my cat. To some limited application of logic for the sake of this sentence alone.
 
Also, there's a huge list of monsters you shouldn't eat.
kobolds, rabid rats, baby green dragons, vampire bats (poisons you, no beneficial effect except nutrition; okay for poison-resistant characters like orcs, barbarians or if you have acquired poison resistance)
bats and stalkers (stuns you for a while; see above for benefits to eating stalkers)
mimics (you can't move for a while)
cockatrice, chickatrice, Medusa (you die of stoning; okay if you're petrification resistant)
Death, Famine, Pestilence (you die)
green slimes (slimes you)
your own race (cannibalism gives you the aggravate monster intrinsic unless you're a caveman or orc)
 
@ArdaΞ I missed out on kobolds but otherwise my main intent, as requested by Kaestur, was to focus on general advice.
 
4:01 PM
@ArdaΞ I don't think your cat will eat any of that, but it would make for an interesting question.
Also the back/front of the shirt might very well be a small-print flow chart. "EATING IN NETHACK"
...we could make a poster, whaddayaknow.
 
@GraceNote Fair enough. I doubt someone on our site will have to ask about eating Death, Famine or Pestilence.
 
Wanna make a meta topic?
 
@badp Actually, I think cats will actually eat dogs.
 
Should I kill Death and eat him?
 
And vice versa, but don't quote me on that.
 
4:02 PM
Another interesting tidbit, if you're polymorphed into a fungus or a ghoul, you're immune to sickness.
 
I was playing nethack on my ipad last weekend. It was kinda fun.
I actually made it more than two levels down before my embarrassing death.
 
@ArdaΞ While useful, this also means you're a fungus or a ghoul.
 
@GraceNote Y-yeah, so?
 
@ArdaΞ Unlike the stoning resistant options, sickness resistance is... only possessed by weak stuff that will crumble to the actual might of anything that will inflict sickness on you.
 
@GraceNote Except corpses.
 
4:06 PM
@ArdaΞ By the time I'm actually dealing with both sickness inducing corpses and polymorph, I'll have enough K-Rations to carry me to the end-game. And if you're unlucky, polymorph shock could make the whole experience a net loss.
 
@GraceNote Fair enough.
 
0
Q: What keyboard macros are useful in sc2?

tenfourI have to wonder how much keyboard macros can really help in sc2. Are there really key sequences which can improve mechanics? I am skeptical but I've never tried it. I guess I can boil it down to this principle: If the sequence is simple enough to be macro'd, isn't it extremely easy to just do ...

 
Oak
4:21 PM
@Grace interesting starred item here...
Congrats! (right?)
 
Thanks
 
Oak
And that means we get an extra moderator?
 
Aye. Oh, right. I needed to procure the stats from that.
 
Oak
Cool, since I'm sure you'll still be around, so effectively it's one extra mod. I wonder who came 4th...
 
I'm not sure how to tell. I thought it was one person but it ended up being another one, so someone who can analyze the data again would be useful.
 
4:43 PM
1
Q: How many wired controllers fit on an Xbox 360?

GuyHow many wired controllers can fit on an Xbox 360? I've heard just 2, but other people say that there is another port in the back, and still others say that there is a hub that you can connect to an Xbox 360. What is the maximum number of wired controllers that you have been able to fit on your X...

0
Q: Looking Good/Reputable Source for Hardware to Dump Old Cartridge Based Games

RLHI love retro-games! What kid from the 80's doesn't! I'm also a software engineer by trade. Recently, I've also had to transition into designing actual embedded computer hardware which has meant that I'm having to learn information about electronics as well as refreshing myself on the specifics ...

 
@Lazers People use wired controllers?
2
 
@Powerlord How weird.
 
Hell. it's actually REALLY hard to find a wired Xbox 360 controller.
And the only reason there is to own one is to connect it to a PC. ;)
 
@Powerlord I agree completely.
 
You're welcome btw at @powerlord
 
4:52 PM
@Oak At risk of sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, we're getting a new moderator?
 
@GnomeSlice Most likely.
 
Oak
@GnomeSlice as a high-rep user on this site, I don't see how it doesn't concern you
 
I assume so anyways.
 
Nobody nominate me.
 
@GnomeSlice You're down a moderator, so you need someone to pick up the slack.
 
4:53 PM
@GnomeSlice Don't worry, nobody would.
 
@Oak Not that, I just wasn't sure if I was getting the full conversation.
@Wipqozn Oh, good.
 
Depending on how last election's results were, if the 4th place candidate was close then we select that one. Otherwise we may have to do other measures.
 
Oak
@GnomeSlice It's likely we'll just go with the 4th one from the last electrions
 
@GraceNote Who are we down?
 
Grace
 
4:54 PM
@GnomeSlice Pins. Right side. Many whelps.
 
she decided she hates all of us and left
 
@GraceNote When I checked the results last time, the people still in the race at the end were all fairly close to each other.
 
Oak
@GnomeSlice we're not actually down, we're getting one extra :)
 
@GraceNote I didn't see anything useful in the starred/pinned list, but that's probably because I don't really know how to read between the lines.
 
@Powerlord Here are the results that I found in chat. Dunno if you can read them well enough, though.
@GnomeSlice Good heavens...
yesterday, by Grace Note
So, I'm... kind of a Stack Exchange Employee rather than a moderator.
 
4:55 PM
@GnomeSlice (or the lines themselves :P)
 
I nominate @FallenAngelEyes because he/she bought me Galcon Fusion.
:3
@GraceNote Oh, I saw that... I didn't see how it pertained to the situation though.
Employee or not, you've still got moderation duties, no?
 
@GnomeSlice "rather than a moderator"
 
@GraceNote Right, and the next 3 down have 9.16, 8.47, and 8.41... and at that point, the minimum threshhold was 27.38.
 
@Powerlord So... that's actually a far shot.
 
@GraceNote So... what do you do?
 
4:57 PM
@GnomeSlice I'm basically in a community coordinator type position.
 
I imagine that we'll get a new election rather than just using the previous results due to this, but I don't know.
 
So, basically what Robert and Rebecca do.
 
@GraceNote I don't know Robert, but Rebecca showed up during the elections.
 
@Powerlord Since this is the case then yes, it is likely we'll be hosting a new election.
 
@GraceNote For just one moderator, or for all three positions?
 
4:58 PM
Just so everyone knows, my high Gaming rep doesn't necessarily mean that I have a good understanding of the entire SE community.
 
@Wipqozn We're not losing Juan or badp
 
@GraceNote Good.
 
@GnomeSlice Did you forget how elections went last time and thusly you have to self-nominate?
 
@GraceNote Yes, but I have to self-deprecate.
Which one of these do you guys like more?
The straight one, or the kinda bent one.
 
Straight one.
 
5:02 PM
I was liking the distortion envelope, but I couldn't get it quite right.
I fooled around with it for probably half an hour. :P
If I could figure out how to get a uniform tilt on the bottom one like I did on the left half of it, I think it would look better.
But Illustrator is so confusing.
 
@Raven Yeah he was called that for a while on one of the sites around here... (MSO IIRC).
@GnomeSlice I finally tried your Minecraft server. About 5 minutes passed before my little start of a base was majorly griefed. >.<
 
@John Wait... what?
Really?
:/
 
Yeah...
 
We've had some major griefing problems recently.
 
I noticed.
 
5:10 PM
A bunch of Avolition players too.
It's usually pretty good.
 
Yeah I saw the sign.
Nikinor gave me a tour, and I played spleef with I7.
That was good, but as soon as I started building, it was griefed.
And I couldn't even tell who it was because there were about 4 people very near me.
 
Aha, did i7nvd show you his new Spleef arena?
It puts mine to shame.
 
No we played in yours.
 
0
Q: None of my games are working in Wine

WolfOkay, with the exception of StarCraft I, every game I've installed with with Wine will not run (I've tried C&C 3, Worms Armageddon, and Rome Total War). All the games install fine, but when I try to run them (from the winefile), the screen flickers a bit (like it's trying to close out winefil...

 
:D Hooray, people still use it!
I haven't been playing much recently.
 
5:14 PM
I figured by your reaction.
 
Is it set up so any question tagged "game" (or a variation there of) is posted in here?
 
@Wipqozn Yes, sadly.
 
@John Well, I hope you come back some time, despite the griefing... We're working on it.
 
No tracking update yet today. Stupid FedEx.
 
@GnomeSlice I will give it another chance, but I can only play because of the humble bundle, so my time expires in about 2 weeks.
 
5:15 PM
I want mine computer!
 
@John That's a shame. Considering purchasing the game?
 
0
Q: Name of game where pill-men build/defend base?

BlueRaja - Danny PflughoeftOkay, this should be an easy one: One of my favorite games for Playstation (the original) was a game where you had a few (three?) pill-shaped men, who ran around gathering blocks from the terrain. These blocks could be brought back to your base, and, depending how many you had and what shape yo...

 
@Lazers I love ITG this game questions.
Wait... no I don't
I actually wouldn't mind the odd one, but when half of the front page is ITG this game, it's a real knock against the site
at least I think it is
 
@John well, if you'd like news updates from our server, you can check things out here on facebook, but the owner doesn't really update it, and I haven't been on much lately.
And our website almost never gets updated. :/
 
@GnomeSlice I definitely am considering buying.
Ottawa! That explains the lag!
 
5:18 PM
@John Actually, the host is based in Toronto, but yeah.
Wow.
 
Well, it's a lot better than the Singapore server I tried... :P
 
The server I play on is hosted down the street from me.
 
We've had new moderators and admins for like a month, and the website hasn't been updated yet...
@Wipqozn That's awesome.
 
@Powerlord - I'm working on a ruby script to mod Dwarf Fortress RAWs en masse. I forget what exactly I was looking for help with, but I figured it out, so all's well.
 
So you can go over and beat wholesale ass if some of the admins give you lip.
 
5:20 PM
@RavenDreamer I don't really know Ruby.
 
@GnomeSlice It's my friends server. He just runs it on his computer, so it's just for me, him and 1 other friend :P
 
@Wipqozn When I can, I host my own server and play with about 3 friends over Hamachi.
 
Oh jeez, I'd completely forgotten that we had a Twitter
Lol...
 
@Powerlord - Sometimes its just good to have another programmer pick your brain to help determine your problem, though.
 
5:20 PM
Like I said, I got it working in the end.
 
@Wipqozn <3
 
Haha, those were done by ferriswheel42
 
@GnomeSlice Wow.....that's a dormant twitter account....
 
He...he also did the pony...
x_x
@John Uh... yep.
 
@GnomeSlice Ponies are awesome. Don't knock ponies.
2
 
5:22 PM
Damnit, whoever starred that! I was just about to check the link in the list of starred messages, and you managed to push the link off the list just as I was moving my mouse to click it! >.<
 
@RavenDreamer I lol'd
 
@Wipqozn He and I did the train station, but the railway was griefed irreparably, so it's mostly just for looks now.
 
@RavenDreamer Oops.....
 
@RavenDreamer That just happened to me a minute or two ago.
 
@GnomeSlice Don't you keep a back-up of the server?
 
5:23 PM
sorry :P
 
@John Don't worry, it's funny so it's justified.
 
@Wipqozn I have no idea. The server owner (close friend of mine) is horrendously sloppy.
Probably somewhere, but it was griefed so long ago.
 
@Wipqozn Whew!
 
Plus, nobody used it, everyone just uses flyhacks. :/
 
Yeah I don't like too many cheat mods...
 
5:24 PM
You know what would sound great while playing Minecraft? Chiptune! Check out this playlist on Youtube! http://t.co/6faSLQW
 
@GnomeSlice You kids and your hack.
 
It's really annoying when people use them in the Spleef arena.
 
@GnomeSlice And they don't get in trouble?!?
 
No not while playing.
But just to get into the arena, or to avoid falling after losing.
After I went to all the trouble of designing the place.
 
Oh right because of all the glass blocking paths.
 
5:25 PM
@Wipqozn Don't forget Macha and his .hack
 
Not to mention thickening the walls twice so that I could wire redstone doors up to the moderator booth.
 
@Powerlord Enjoyable series (the animes that is, never played the games).
 
Have to go. Bye guys!
 
^ That's a great playlist, by the way. ^
 
@Wipqozn I played the first game, and it wasn't really that great.
 
5:26 PM
Lovingly compiled by me.
@John Adios. =]
 
I remember when you tried to wire up the piston doors @GnomeSlice.
 
@Powerlord That's why I haven't played them. They look very bland.
 
It's repetitive as all hell. Just like some real MMOs are.
 
@KevinY Oh, yeah I gave up on that.
 
:D
 
5:27 PM
I just put fences in front of it now when it's being renovated. :P
Have you been back for your next tournament game yet?
 
@Powerlord yo dawg we heard you like games so we put a game in your game so you game while you game
 
Nobody really proceeded with it while I was away...
 
Y'know, I should probably go check on that.
 
SOrry, couldn't resist.
 
It's pretty pathetic when actual MMOs are more fun than a single player game about MMOs that are doing weird and unexpected things.
 
5:27 PM
Haven't been playing Minecraft much lately.
 
@KevinY I'll go see who your opponent is.
@KevinY Me neither.
 
It's we1rdprism.
 
Aha.
 
Oh no... today's Thursday, isn't it.
 
Quick everyone – ask more Minecraft questions! (I haven't been able answer any questions lately)
 
5:28 PM
I think weirdpr1sm got promoted.
 
@Powerlord In North America anyways
 
World of Warcraft lost substantial numbers of subscribers. Hm.
 
As did like 5 other people.
 
might already be tomorrow somewhere
 
Ahh.
 
5:28 PM
1.5 hours until I have my daily Thursday nap. And by daily Thursday nap, I mean boring meeting that I'm required to go to.
 
Ah, he's not online @KevinY.
 
@RavenDreamer Really now?
 
And when it's a meeting with only 3 people in it, I can't get away with not participating.
 
@GnomeSlice Thanks for checking. :)
 
@Wipqozn - according to their earnings call, 300,000.
 
5:29 PM
@Powerlord that sucks
 
@RavenDreamer That's not a surprise. They redesigned a lot of their old world content, but high level characters don't spend their time there. Oh, and they added half the usual amount of high level content last expansion.
That, and rumor had it a lot of people only returned temporarily to what Blizzard changed, then left again.
 
And increased the time / money required to reach contemporary endgame content.
 
(which includes me, btw)
 
Yeah. I got an email from Blizzard the other day, saying my account had been suspended for suspicions of gold selling.
 
Some of the players transferred over to Rift as well
 
5:31 PM
@RavenDreamer From 0 to 85, yeah, but it was shorter than the usual expansion time from the previous max level because you only had half as many levels.
 
Which was having population problems itself last time I checked
 
At the time, my account had been inactive for 3 months... O.o
I still liked Burning Crusade the best, I think.
 
Rift, when I played the beta, came off as a cross between WoW and the Warhammer MMO.
Sure, you have more skill trees to choose from than WoW, but... you have less than half as many classes.
 
And there's not much synergy between the trees.
 
Oh right, I remember why I stopped playing on here...
 
5:34 PM
That's what I was dissapointed about.
 
Too many plugins.
 
Heh.
 
No, really.
Plus.
Pretty much everyone has a 'nickname'
Which lets them change their display name.
Which makes it really hard to do username-specific commands.
 
Yeah, I noticed that too.
 
Bah! I'd be finished with this program if I could just work out the permissions issues!
 
5:35 PM
I was tempted to get Rift when it was on sale, but decided not to. I don't really need an MMO right now.
 
@KevinY Even the owner...
 
As it is, I don't get the dev work done I want to for the game I do play.
 
Plus, people keep changing my name.
 
What is your name currently?
 
'You are now set as beeing afk!'
 
5:36 PM
@HomeSlice: How?
 
Oh
 
@KevinY I fixed it. 'GnomeSlice'.
 
@LomeSlice Okay.
 
Often, it gets changed to UMAD?
But the server has a chat filter.
If you type umad it changes it to 'derp'.
 
._.
 
5:37 PM
@Derp: Er... OK.
 
Failed use of a chat filter right there.
 
@KevinY Yeah.
@KevinY No kidding.
Oh, the owner thought that was quite clever of him.
 
Ha, that reminds me of a TF2 command I had installed at one point. It lets you toggle a mode on people to make everything they say get replaced be a random phrase from a list of phrases.
 
The owner from Treepunch.US has a similar thing.
 
A fun plugin to use on Griefers.
 
5:39 PM
He can make all of the chat become 133T 5P33|<
 
Err, how do you grief a TF2 server? :/
 
Or make everything you say just become Puddi
Puddi puddi
 
@Puddi puddi puddi puddi
 
Giga puddi.
 
@KevinY Well, I was thinking more along the lines of cheating in general, as well as people who have scripts to change their names repeatedly.
 
5:40 PM
Ahh.
 
The latter of which earns you an auto-ban on my server, thanks to a plugin I have installed.
A plugin that I also wrote. \o/
 
:D
 
@Powerlord Do you just run the OCR servers? or do you have other ones as well?
 
@Wipqozn I just run the OCR servers.
 
Server harassment.
At it's finest.
Wow, nice thumbnail, that is supposed to be Duke Nukem.
 
5:43 PM
@GnomeSlice The fact he's running a vent server, and seems to have no idea who duke nukem is frightens me.
 
@Wipqozn It's actually a she. And one of the other guys in the conversation is her son.
x_x
 
Very interesting game.
 
@GnomeSlice Oh wow, it is a woman. L o L
 
@Wipqozn 'Peggy'
There's another one featuring her as well.
Oh man, those videos are so good.
The over 9000 one is pretty entertaining.
 
@GnomeSlice do you know which one it is?
 
5:48 PM
Just youtube 'Ventrilo Harassment' it's like it's own genre of video now.
Have any of you ever heard the 4 strength, 4 stam leather belt!? meme?
 
Level 19 twink gear for World of Warcraft
Serious memetic business.
 
That originated from one of these videos, I think.
If not, it was used in one of the greatest ones.
 
Don't these people know what a whitelist is?
 
@Wipqozn There are ways to get around it, I think.
Ah, the Deliverance one made me laugh until I cried.
AHA! HERE IT IS
4 STRENGTH 4 STAM LEATHER BELT?
I'm pretty sure that this is where that originated.
 

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