The Bridge

Ben Brocka

17:00

> this video is fucking dumb... fuck cheaters real mmo players play legit

comment on a youtube video...about Final Fantasy 7

Sconibulus

...

fbueckert

@BenBrocka Youtube comments are the bottom of the barrel.

LessPop_MoreFizz

Night Vale Episode 30, coming September 1st, to be titled "Dana".

ANSWERS FROM WITHIN THE DOG PARK ARE COMING.

OrigamiRobot

O_O

Someone must have thrown her some beans.

RedRiderX

@LessPop_MoreFizz gasp

That phone must get great battery life.

FEichinger

17:08

@LessPop_MoreFizz Those bearing the Outsider's mark are protected from the poisonous depths of Dunwall's waters. Duh!

Lazers

0

Q: Dumping a unconscious enemy to the water, counts as a kill?

I just finished a mission, and i dont remember killing anyone, but i threw 3 bodies on the water. At the end of the mission, i ended up getting "3 kills" So, dumping a unconscious guard/enemy to the water, counts as a kill ?

dishonored

Sterno

17:26

Someone please refill The Bridge's drama meter. It's getting dangerously low.

fbueckert

@Sterno It will happen as soon as @RavenDreamer gets home from work.

Sterno

@fbueckert I know. So hard not to get it started early!

FEichinger

@Sterno You could just post a meta Q on your own, rather than petty questions, but hey, where's the fun in that, right?

Sterno

@FEichinger I like to leave meta questions to people smarter than me.

And what you call petty, I call pointing out the absurdity of the situation.

fbueckert

@Sterno Personally, I don't care which way we go along the piracy debate, as long as it's a consistent policy. I thought your question was pretty facetious, but I'm letting others handle it.

Sterno

17:31

In does raise the question of whether or not every Skyrim question that guy ever asks in the future needs to be automatically closed since he's now admitted to a pirated copy.

FEichinger

@Sterno You don't contest a decision by posting crap, but on meta or with reopen votes.

Sterno

@FEichinger I didn't post crap. I reposted a valid question. AND I cast a reopen vote.

fbueckert

@Sterno You can't have it both ways, dude.

Sterno

@fbueckert What are the two ways?

fbueckert

If the other question is acceptable, yours is a dupe.

FEichinger

17:32

You reposted a question that was collectively (not unanimously, mind) considered OT. That is crap.

Sterno

@fbueckert I know. I also VTC'd mine as a dupe.

fbueckert

If it's not acceptable, you just posted a stupid question you can't even confirm is correct.

Sterno

@FEichinger Yeah, that's weird, huh? that one was considered OT, but my identical question hasn't gotten any OT votes. I don't understand.

YES I'M BEING FACETIOUS

Seriously though, the situation is pretty absurd.

FEichinger

There's nothing wrong with arguing that the question should be reopened, that's perfectly fine to do. But reposting it and leaving passive aggressive comments is just flat-out not okay.

Sterno

@FEichinger I strongly disagree that reposting it is not okay. I'll delete the passive aggressive comments. Which one? The thing about it not being pirated?

fbueckert

17:35

@Sterno Welcome to our policy on piracy.

To my understanding, it's black and white, with no inbetween.

Sterno

@fbueckert I'm not convinced we all have the same understanding of what that policy is.

I mean, clearly we don't.

The meta you linked in that one question was hardly cut and dry. It was about an entirely different case where you could NOT separate piracy from the question and still have the question.

fbueckert

@Sterno My basic gist is that we don't even question the legitimacy of the question if we find out it's about a pirated game.

Trent Hawkins

@Sterno sure you could; modify the question to involve moving the save from one machine to another, with no mention of piracy.

fbueckert

Because we are tacitly supporting piracy by helping him.

It's always been, "Piracy? Close. Period."

Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Sterno

@TrentHawkins Sounds like a good question then.

@fbueckert You keep quoting that. I don't see that anywhere except in chat.

fbueckert

17:38

@Sterno Are we, or are we not, tacitly supporting piracy by answering his question?

Trent Hawkins

@Sterno then why did we deep six that question, and are trying to save the currently debated one?

Sterno

@fbueckert Who cares, if it addresses an actual problem non-pirates face?

Jason Berkan

@fbueckert As much as we are tacitly supporting piracy by allowing him to browse any already answered questions.

Sterno

I mean, let's say I take this question:

40

Q: What does the full research tree look like?

I find myself constantly wishing I had some idea what the research tree looked like. For example, if I want to unlock plasma weapons, do I have to go down the laser weapon path first to unlock it, or am I going in completely in the wrong direction?If I want to get a satellite nexus, what do I nee...

xcom-enemy-unknown

Now I go post "By the way, dudes, I totally pirated that game!"

fbueckert

@Sterno Because it matters.

Sterno

17:39

Should we suddenly delete it because it supports piracy?

fbueckert

@Sterno No, because you're still being facetious.

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno I've tried argueing that before, it wont work.

Sterno

@fbueckert the correct answer is "no, because it doesn't matter"

fbueckert

If our stance is to not support piracy, then we don't support piracy. End of story.

FEichinger

@Sterno This is one case in which I agree with @fbueckert that "the question should stand on its own": We can only prove that the bug isn't down to piracy because other people confirm so.

OrigamiRobot

17:40

Feb 23 at 18:32, by OrigamiRobot

Just because someone tacked on "BTW this is pirated" doesn't make it support for pirated games.

fbueckert

If can no longer assume good faith of the question, then we close it as off-topic.

Sterno

@fbueckert We're arguing over what it means to actually support piracy.

fbueckert

@Sterno And I'm saying answering a question that a user has specifically said he's pirated is supporting piracy.

Sterno

@fbueckert And I disagree with that definition.

OrigamiRobot

@fbueckert False.

fbueckert

17:42

We've hashed this out in the Bridge before.

We're not going to come to an agreement.

Sterno

Drama meter refilled though!

Good job everyone!

@fbueckert I was actually surprised you didn't have a close vote on it.

OrigamiRobot

If I go comment on an existing question "Thanks, this helped my pirated game." does that make the question supporting piracy? No.

fbueckert

@Sterno The one we're talking about? I do.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot To me a lot of it really comes down to your "why to upvote/downvote" chart

fbueckert

> Post Closed as "off-topic" by SevenSidedDie, kotekzot, Schism, fbueckert, authenticgeek

Sterno

17:43

@fbueckert I didn't think I saw your name on the list.

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno I agree. I have thought about making a chart for this too.

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert Is this like a badge of honor

Sterno

@fbueckert Ahhh... I didn't realize it was closed twice.

fbueckert

We're going to have to respectfully agree to disagree on this point. I've made my side known, so have you, we disagree.

OrigamiRobot

If the question is about a problem caused by piracy, it is obviously supporting piracy.

Trent Hawkins

17:45

The issue I'm seeing is this (per the meta @fbueckert is going by - That question had an underlying good question; "How do I move my stats from one installation of the game to another?" - but because the user admitted to piracy, we didn't even attempt salvaging it for the good underlying question and deleted it.

Now a new question comes up with another valid question, but the user outright admits to piracy - why is our response not the same?

OrigamiRobot

If the question is about a problem that exists in legitimate copies and the asker mentions "BTW, this is pirated" it is not supporting piracy.

fbueckert

@OrigamiRobot Ok, prove it's not caused by piracy.

FEichinger

@TrentHawkins It is, we closed it - we don't delete it, because people contest it.

Sterno

@TrentHawkins Because that's a misrepresentation of that meta question, for one.

I don't see anywhere in that meta it being discussed if a version that removes anything about piracy would be okay

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert Prove it is?

OrigamiRobot

17:46

@fbueckert Sometimes you can.

Sterno

It specifically talks about if telling him how to move from cracked to legit is okay

FEichinger

@Sterno Because we don't even go to that point. Piracy is a clear-cut "No."

fbueckert

@OrigamiRobot Can you in this case?

Sterno

@FEichinger Citation needed.

OrigamiRobot

I don't know or care what specific case you're talking about, I'm talking about general case.

Sterno

17:47

(and I bet that a quote you find is going to get us back into what it means to "support piracy")

OrigamiRobot

If it is unsure, err on the side of caution and close it.

Trent Hawkins

How does the save file of a pirated copy differ from that of a legit copy? if he hadn't informed us, would we know?

fbueckert

> When it comes to legality, we tend to err on the side of assuming good faith here, and only prohibit questions that are clearly on the wrong side of the law

FEichinger

@Sterno Are you friggin kidding me? You just said it yourself: We did not discuss if a "fixed" version would be okay. We don't, because we already threw the question out before we even got to that point.

Sterno

@FEichinger So you're saying that this is not a conversation we should have because we didn't have the conversation?

FEichinger

17:49

@Sterno I'm saying that the current situation is in no way different from the linked one. And therefore our resulting actions should be the same, too.

fbueckert

@Sterno We're saying that Test #1, before we even figure if the question is legitimate or not, is if it's about piracy. If it is, question is closed. Full stop.

It doesn't matter whether the user has a legit problem or not. It's piracy, therefore off-topic.

Sterno

@fbueckert I get what you're saying. I'm saying that I don't think that the meta question you're referencing states that. That may have been what happened in it, but it's not about whether or not that's the proper policy.

OrigamiRobot

@fbueckert What is "about piracy" to you? Some would argue that mentioning piracy makes it about piracy.

Sterno

Seriously, though, if imagebox asks another skyrim question now, are you guys proposing we auto-close it since he has admitted to piracy of the game? If not, why not?

2

GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot shut up you pirate

fbueckert

17:51

@Sterno That's the consistent policy we've enforced ever since I got here.

OrigamiRobot

44

Q: What do these symbols mean?

I'm seeing these symbols everywhere. Merchant stalls, houses, etc. What do they represent? Are there more? Note: These are not unique to these locations. I have found the 4th symbol the most. On both houses and shops.

skyrim

If I mentioned "I pirated" at the bottom of this question does it make it about piracy?

GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot -1 piracy

Sterno

@fbueckert Let's say for a minute you are 100% right. A discussion about it on meta still sounds valuable to me, then.

fbueckert

@OrigamiRobot You keep using that argument. It's facetious.

@Sterno I agree.

FEichinger

@Sterno Nobody disagrees with you there.

GnomeSlice

17:52

@OrigamiRobot Only one way to find out. Edit that shit in and see if the downvotes roll in.

OrigamiRobot

@fbueckert No, it's not. Some people would say that does make it about piracy.

2

fbueckert

@OrigamiRobot You're not asking seriously, and you know it.

Sterno

Maybe @OrigamiRobot really is a pirate and you just think he's being facetious! HOW THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW?

:)

Robots, can't trust 'em.

OrigamiRobot

@fbueckert I am asking seriously

FEichinger

@OrigamiRobot What do you expect to hear? "Yes, your petty action does make it piracy so let's close it!"? You know full well that that's bullshit.

OrigamiRobot

17:53

@FEichinger And yet some would say that.

fbueckert

If we want to enforce a consistent policy, then yes, I'd say close it.

2

Grace Note

@fbueckert I'm pretty sure he's being serious in his statement here because the inanity of the situation is, in his mind, equal to that.

FEichinger

@OrigamiRobot I am not seeing these mysterious "some" you're talking about.

GnomeSlice

I think he's asking because you guys seem to have differing opinions on the matter.

OrigamiRobot

Feb 23 at 18:34, by OrigamiRobot

0

Q: What's the use of Lucid Memory Artifacts in Tyranny of King George?

I've found a (my first) memory artifact in Assassin's Creed 3 Tyranny of King George (episode 1). I've pressed the "interact" button and a picture appeared; nothing else. The symbol did not disappear from the map. Is that supposed to happen? Can I collect all 3 of them in this episode (The Infamy)?

assassins-creed-3

Start there.

Sterno

17:53

@fbueckert The point isn't whether or not it's facetious. The point is whether we're prohibiting questions as some sort of punitive measure against pirates, or if we're doing it because such questions are a problem on the site. It sounds like the former, because that's the only case where it matters if @OrigamiRobot is actually a pirate or not.

fbueckert

@GraceNote I understand you're asking seriously, you're not seriously pirating Minecraft.

FEichinger

@OrigamiRobot I am talking about this particular situation where you edit it in purely out of spite.

OrigamiRobot

@FEichinger That's not a situation I am talking about.

Sterno

I guess I stated that wrong, because it wasn't really an either/or, but rather an "and"

GnomeSlice

Can't we all just getabong?

OrigamiRobot

17:54

I am talking about when I originally asked it.

fbueckert

The point is to assume good faith until we no longer can.

OrigamiRobot

@GnomeSlice is the one who said edit it in.

FEichinger

@OrigamiRobot For what it's worth, if the original revision contained a note that says it was pirated, then, yes, I'd say close it in keeping with the policy we enforced before.

GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot My bad, sorry.

Sterno

Okay, honest question: Why does good faith matter? Why does the name attached to the question matter?

2

fbueckert

17:55

If you actually comment that you pirated it, I will vote to close it, since we can no longer do that.

OrigamiRobot

@FEichinger And I disagree.

FEichinger

I'm not against changing that policy, mind you. But we can't arbitrarily say "Let's not close it this time, because fuck what we did last time."

fbueckert

That's my understanding of our policy, and how I will enforce it.

Sterno

@FEichinger Actually, we can do exactly that.

Policy is whatever close and reopen votes dictate that it is.

(short of mod intervention)

FEichinger

@Sterno And the next time we enforce it differently again. Back and forth like that. Welcome to tons of complaints from everyone involved.

fbueckert

17:56

@Sterno It's always been our policy to assume good faith. Until we get told straight out it's been pirated. Then it's close the question.

OrigamiRobot

When a question is asked, it's not just the asker's anymore. It's everyone's. Therefore, if it can apply to legitimate copies, it should be on topic regardless of who asked and whether or not they pirated it.

2

fbueckert

It matters not if the question is legit or not. Piracy = off-topic = close.

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert I don't agree.

Sterno

It is clear that we have very, very different opinions.

I am kind of curious from the StackExchange perspective what matters with regards to "supporting piracy"

GnomeSlice

@Sterno Obviously you are incorrect then.

FEichinger

17:57

@Sterno Yes, it is. And right now, the close votes are saying that we close any mention of piracy.

fbueckert

If we're going to declare limited cases of piracy on-topic, we had better have a consistent policy in place.

2

Sterno

@FEichinger Then it sounds like me reposting without mention of piracy is a win-win!

FEichinger

@Sterno No, because that is still a dupe you posted out of spite just to fuel a petty argument.

Sterno

@fbueckert For what it's worth, I wouldn't think piracy is on-topic. It's totally irrelevant to the question. The entire comment chain should be deleted. Then no one would ever know.

fbueckert

@Sterno I still think that was more of a jerk move than anything else, and that you shouldn't have done that. But, regardless, others can handle that. I don't care enough about it.

Sterno

17:59

@FEichinger Okay, I realize why you would think I'm doing it to fuel a petty argument because I make jackass comments in The Bridge. But I assure you, I really do feel strongly about this and am not doing it just to incite trouble.

fbueckert

@Sterno Check the revision history. It's part of it.

FEichinger

Again: I'm not against changing the policy about piracy. If we can edit it out and the question still works for everyone involved, that'd be perfectly fine by me. But we need to set that in stone, so we don't bump around from one end to the other every single time piracy comes up.

fbueckert

@FEichinger And this is my stance.

If you want to change it, I'm on-board with us hashing it out.

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