The Bridge

StrixVaria

9:00 PM

My main issue with this one is just that it needs something done to it. Right now it's in limbo.

badp

I'm going for deletion

fredley

@badp Oh that

sarge_smith

@strix yep, but does it need something done to it right this second?

StrixVaria

@sarge_smith Why not bring it up now?

Powerlord

@badp By company, I assume you mean NCSoft, since iirc they already dissolved the subsidiary that ran CoH/CoV.

Jason Berkan

9:01 PM

@sarge_smith Everything here happens now or not at all.

badp

@Powerlord Whomever has the IP... or the server executable.

sarge_smith

this site seems to jump on stuff super fast compared to others, meaning very few people have a chance to weigh in

Jason Berkan

This linked question should be treated the same way as the final decision on the question in question: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/65814/…

badp

whew, just beated again the Doctor's Revenge

@JasonBerkan deleted them both

My BoI secrets count is at 84/97 :/

tiddy

@sarge_smith They take things pretty seriously here

badp

9:05 PM

@sarge_smith hm? You mean we answer very fast? Take meta decisions very fast?

Powerlord

@badp Cook bacon and/or turtles really fast?

murgatroid99

@badp Well, I guess that settles that

Jason Berkan

@sarge_smith You obviously weren't around for the game rec or ITG fights.

badp

@Powerlord We had some guy who cooked bacon really fast, then he left.

Jason Berkan

They lasted forever.

sarge_smith

9:06 PM

@tiddy it is serious, I just have always had a problem with the fact that long before people weigh in, people just do... and I was here for those.

tiddy

But it isn't serious

Dave McClelland

@sarge_smith There have been several issues that we took forever to make a decision on (ITG), and all it did was lead to dozens of meta posts and chat discussions. I'd much rather have people take action and then reverse it than have everyone spend hours discussing an issue and never get off their asses and do anything about it

Wipqozn

@sarge_smith You don't need to get the input of the entire community on every decision. That's just a waste of time. We make metas on larger issues, and on edge cases which people seem really divided on.

badp

@lesspop btw I genuinely laughed when I read that tweet :D

Powerlord

@JasonBerkan Which ITG fight? The first or second? Or was there a third in there somewhere?

badp

9:09 PM

All the ITG fights were too long. All of them.

Jason Berkan

@Powerlord I remember 2.5. The first, LessPop's clean up the sucky ones (0.5) and the last and final decision.

sarge_smith

agreed, but you are talking precedent for dealing with questions that apply to games that can no longer be played... that potentially affects a large amount of people's work on this site.

badp

Well the decision was made to preserve such work in this specific case

sarge_smith

@badp didn't you just delete those questions?

StrixVaria

@JasonBerkan If you count chat battles you can easily increase the number by about a bajillion.

I think maybe we had 2.5 wars.

Dave McClelland

9:11 PM

@sarge_smith One of the nice things about SE is that every "destructive" action (closing/deleting) that users take is reversible. If the community changes its mind about a decision or someone gets a bit overzealous in making a decision, it can be reversed.

badp

@sarge_smith yes, because they are no longer relevant and about a game that is still online; what they do is add confusion and/or keep outdated information online - and that's not good.

Wipqozn

@sarge_smith Did you not see the meta that was already posted during this conversation?

badp

also if your post gets enough reputation before being deleted you now keep the reputation you gained from it.

Wipqozn

14 mins ago, by Jason Berkan

16

Q: What do we do with questions about games that can no longer be played?

So City of Heroes shut down over the weekend. There is no longer any way to play it, as the servers went dead. Now, we only have seven City of Heroes questions, so there's not a lot of content, one way or the other. But it brings up an important question: For games that you can no longer play ...

Jason Berkan

@StrixVaria And vote and comment battles on the ITG questions. So 2 bajillion.

sarge_smith

9:13 PM

that meta question has the top voted answer at 50 votes to leave such content alone. alone does not mean deleted.

Wipqozn

@sarge_smith It's a different issue.

badp

One thing is a game that is completely offline, frozen in time if you will until it returns back to being relevant; another thing is a game that has changed so much some of the questions no longer make sense

In one case we keep, in the other we delete

sarge_smith

I agree, I also think it deserves some time for the community to weigh in

@badp where's the meta question that establishes that?

badp

@sarge_smith It's nothing new for the community to weigh in; we've already deleted questions for being no longer relevant 1.5 years ago when minecraft boosters were removed from the game

Jason Berkan

@sarge_smith There's gotta be one due to all the Minecraft changes.

Though everything I can find has "don't delete them" as the highest answer.

10

Q: Should questions about obsoleted mechanics be simply removed?

We have quite a lot questions about minecart boosters and water elevators, neither of which work anymore in patch 1.6. The community's consensus is currently: "add a disclaimer on them all"; as the person who suggested this, I'd like the community to reconsider this. When I suggested this, I fi...

discussion obsolete-questions

6

Q: Minecraft has gone gold

...so it's time to do a mass clean up of our Minecraft content, yes? We have two options: You flag outdated questions (= about items or mechanisms that are no longer there, etc) and we delete them. The homepage should not get trashed by question and answer deletion. Some reputation will be lo...

discussion minecraft information-rot

badp

9:18 PM

@JasonBerkan turns out no one made the -legacy tag or the -beta tag and no one undeleted the relevant posts

Ben Brocka

Jason Berkan

@badp Because if it's not done now, it gets forgotten about.

Ben Brocka

wizard cat

agent86

I think I edited that disclaimer into the top of the SWTOR question, and I did it based on what was on meta.

sooooo

Jason Berkan

@agent86 mod fight?

badp

9:19 PM

It's not a mod power to make tags or undelete posts

sooooo

agent86

yeah. that's what I think should have been done, cause otherwise I wouldn't have done it

badp

The internet nets no gain from knowing how to make boosters in Minecraft one year and a half ago, or from knowing what happened to SWTOR trial accounts at level 15 half a year ago.

that said getting a list of deleted questions with a tag is... trivial (although manual)

agent86

we're not really running out of question IDs, and it's work to remove stuff, useless or no

tiddy

We speak for the internet, and thus the world.

badp

@agent86 it's also work to undelete it.

Ben Brocka

9:21 PM

@JasonBerkan Mod abuse! Everyone get your brooms

sarge_smith

except that I used that booster knowledge when minecraft 360 came out... and I got it from this site when I did

badp

I'd say it's more work to edit disclaimers in and close than it is to delete it.

agent86

@badp yeah. I don't know what we're arguing about.

badp

@agent86 Ponies.

StrixVaria

@agent86 My issue was just that it was closed and it couldn't stay that way. Whether it gets deleted or stays open with your disclaimer I don't care either way.

agent86

9:22 PM

I feel like I just woke up and everyone's eating breakfast and I'm like "where's my breakfast?" but nobody knows because we're out of eggs.

badp

@StrixVaria The historical consensus apparently is "stays closed with disclaimer"

Grace Note

Hm. The whole issue of City of Heroes isn't something we really thought about when we last discussed certain things.

Ben Brocka

@agent86 Breakfast was closed

agent86

the historical consensus is... hahahahahahahahaha consensus on the internet, that's funny

3

StrixVaria

@badp Well that's stupid.

Grace Note

9:23 PM

@badp I'd rather just leave it open with said disclaimer.

badp

@StrixVaria I'm pleased to discover that I've been arguing against it for a while.

sarge_smith

@agent86 it was my fault... I was dragging in a larger issue

badp

@GraceNote leave it open to... new answers?

I just don't see the point.

Grace Note

@badp What would anyone with half an ounce of a mind post as an answer?

StrixVaria

HISTORICAL LOCK

badp

9:24 PM

@GraceNote "help i'm doing this in my minecraft and its not working why"

sarge_smith

Historical lock seems made for this

agent86

closing something solves some very narrow problems, imho

Jason Berkan

@GraceNote "This no longer works."

Grace Note

@badp "Protection" exists for this case.

@JasonBerkan And this is a legitimate answer if the case may be.

Ben Brocka

What's the point in closing each and every post every time a game closes, especially if that means if the game starts up again we have to go and reopen each and every one?

agent86

9:24 PM

I say we do nothing, because it's easy and I like easy.

Ben Brocka

Locking is even worse since I don't think you can even flag those, so fixing it's even more of a fustercluck

sarge_smith

can't the mod's batch edit tags?

StrixVaria

@BenBrocka Different topic. City of Heroes is different from handling this SWTOR question.

agent86

@sarge_smith nope.

badp

@JasonBerkan That's a lot of identical answers for a lot of different questions and honestly not what I'd like to see.

Grace Note

9:25 PM

@sarge_smith No.

sarge_smith

oooo... I think I found myself on the wrong side of this

agent86

I can do mostly what other people can do, with the caveat that I don't need other people to agree first.

well, I say that.

Jason Berkan

@badp I know. I agree with Grace, though - the question can be protected if it is left open and attracts undesirable answers.

badp

I'd rather not have a gold rush for votes and accepts just to write "This won't work in the next update"

agent86

I can do things unilaterally, as long as I'm willing to be beaten upside the head afterwards.

Grace Note

9:26 PM

If we want to keep the content on the site, we reopen it. Closing means that there's something that we don't want, fixable or otherwise. We don't close things we don't have an intent to keep, unless the closure is intended to spur changes to make it something to keep.

agent86

I'm like a bus driver. I tell the bus where to go, but all the passengers get upset if I go off the route.

Grace Note

So, that's really the rule here - do we want to keep legacy stuff that got outdated? There's arguments for and against this - even for outdated and no-longer-existent games, we can remain a knowledge base of "That which once was" as well as "That which still is". Alternatively, we keep in tune with what is actually presently usable information, and trim away stuff that no longer suits the state of gaming.

Lazers

0

Q: Kill streak or Stun streak. Can i combine?

I am trying to get The_ INDEPENDENT_hack, and i need to activate 2 Kill streaks during 1 sessions. My questions are: Does stun streaks also count (they activate kill streak skill bonus) Can i combine both, kills and stuns? For example kill -> stun -> kill to activate streak? Why i am asking? ...

multiplayer assassins-creed-3

agent86

removing (or otherwise touching) stuff that's outdated is painful and unlikely to succeed with 100% accuracy. I say deal with the squeaky wheels instead of trying to cull the content in some sort of wholesale fashion

StrixVaria

@GraceNote I like the idea of keeping around outdated information.

badp

9:30 PM

@GraceNote If there was a way to make questions "unlisted" then I'd be all for it. (You can still find the question if you have a link to it.) But I'd say it's easier to just hit delete.

StrixVaria

It's interesting to look back on "that which once was".

badp

@agent86 The accuracy argument is irrelevant; we need to act on each question anyway by adding notices and protection and whatnot.

agent86

ie, a question is no longer valid and it becomes popular. add a disclaimer saying it's no longer valid. no reason to go around attempting to preemptively find those things that are out of date and likely to become popular

badp

I'd rather make the historical lock/notice/whatever the exception for questions that have had significant inbound links

(not something that's rather easy to prove though)

If we're really worried about losing information to the mists of time, may I remind us all that we have a blog for that. "Minecraft boosters, how did they work?" would make a killer blog post :P

Grace Note

I don't think we really need to put a historical lock. To me that screams of "We don't trust people to let bygones by bygones".

agent86

9:33 PM

the organizational structure of posts on this site is very loose. it's very much a heap where we lose pointers to stuff on a regular basis. the best way to say "this is dumb" is to forget about it. it just disappears into the mass of data.

Grace Note

Well, maybe not screams, but I just feel that the measure of stasis introduced is overkill and unnecessary.

agent86

which is why my suggestion is to forget until it's notable for whatever reason. there's enough stuff around on a daily basis to keep busy with without making work for ourselves and so forth.

badp

@agent86 Unlike data for games that no longer can be played - we can afford to have those dangle around - data for games that still get played, googled about etc. is very much not-dangling by effect of the all-seeing Google deity

Why do we want to pollute information about "Minecraft booster tracks" with information about "Minecraft boosters"?

agent86

@badp if it becomes notable, then it reappears again and we deal with it.

badp

@agent86 we're currently not arguing about dead games, I understand

agent86

9:37 PM

@badp I don't particularly draw a distinction between "content for dead games" and "dead content from games"

badp

A dead game is a game no one really cares about; those who do only are interested in the last known working state of the game

A dead feature in a game is a feature no one really cares about; it gets replaced by other stuff that's actually relevant here and now

The very real risk is polluting information relevant here and now with outdated information we're just keeping for nostalgia value

"booster tracks" are called that precisely to supplant "boosters"

agent86

so, that's a special case, go do something to touch that content.

badp

it's no special case

today, we had a question about level cap

the level cap is gone, why have questions about it?

agent86

so... you're now at 2 questions of 26k

clearly not a special case :)

Grace Note

@agent86 There are a lot more than a single booster question. It warranted a meta discussion on its own just to clean that up.

badp

9:40 PM

@agent86 ...

Grace Note

badp's point is a salient one about the fact that irrelevant, and more to point misleading information on our site is given equal prominence to relevant information to the current state of the game.

agent86

@GraceNote I'm not saying it's so localized as to be not noteworthy; I'm saying it's a problem that we handle when it comes up, rather than trying to cull the existing question base for invalid content

I'd be willing to bet that there's a very low percentage of things on the site that, on a daily basis are both obsolete and noteworthy.

sarge_smith

0

Q: What should be done with out of version questions?

Gaming is a fast moving field and sometimes things get left behind or shut down. What should we do with the content on the site that is no longer pertinent to the current state of gaming? Should we preserve it as a nod to the past and those people who put some effort into answering and curating t...

discussion

agent86

it seems like already we've come to several conclusions about ways we could handle these noteworthy obsolete things, we should probably pick the one that actually works best and just save it for those times we come up with these obsolete but noteworthy items

perhaps consolidating the discussion on the subject would be good.

StrixVaria

I'm glad I brought this up :P

Grace Note

9:46 PM

@agent86 I can't speak for badp, not being he, but I think that "noteworthiness" isn't much an issue so much as the presence of any sort of misinformation can be googled and traced to us, our authoritative reputation thus deceiving folk or otherwise marring their ability to find the right stuff if they stop at the wrong stuff first.

Yes, these can be handled on a case-by-case basis as they each turn up. Each case being a bad experience for someone, being the crux point of opposition here.

agent86

@GraceNote if this is the problem, it is an intractable one that I think we can't solve with the current tools we've got.

Grace Note

16 mins ago, by badp

@GraceNote If there was a way to make questions "unlisted" then I'd be all for it. (You can still find the question if you have a link to it.) But I'd say it's easier to just hit delete.

agent86

(at least not in any sort of efficient or accurate way)

Grace Note

That kinda wraps up his point, I think. Did I do you justice, @badp?

badp

I think you have, good sir/madame/space ship/bullet.

Grace Note

9:48 PM

@badp Self-propelled artillery.

agent86

if our goal is to be as close to always right as possible for every visitor, the system is terribly inefficient for that purpose

Grace Note

I think here we have two people looking at two different kinds of big pictures.

Jason Berkan

@agent86 Sometimes I think the goal of SE and what SE provides are two different things.

agent86

I think trying to optimize that problem past "handling the squeaky wheels as they come up" is likely to end in an amount of work that doesn't match the amount of benefit generated.

badp

@agent86 That doesn't mean we shouldn't try; the "we aren't running out of questions ID" argument you've used a little ago is an argument for, not against deletion.

LessPop_MoreFizz

9:50 PM

@badp Vaffanculo.

Ben Brocka

badp

@agent86 The current amount of work is editing (and bumping) each of these questions

Ben Brocka

Headphoneswords

2

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz Assorete.

agent86

@JasonBerkan Well, I think part of it is that we tend to get lofty goals in our minds, but we're working with software, created, designed, and implemented by humans with jobs and schedules and so forth. we'll eventually be there, it'll just take 6-8 weeks :P

sarge_smith

9:51 PM

you know, if you have below 10k rep.... you can't see those questions at all anymore even with a ID

badp

(That's dialect for "your sister;" I realize we aren't on quite such friendly terms but you called for it :P)

sarge_smith

so deletion is not at all preserving them except in the case of high rep site participates

agent86

@badp it's hard to go back from deletion. making a mistake and deleting something useful in the future outweighs the cost of a "this has been reported as obsolete" edit template.

Grace Note

@JasonBerkan I had a nice philosophical dive yesterday or so about our performance in terms of fulfilling our stated mission versus fulfilling our platform duty.

agent86

@badp I don't see this as much work.

Jason Berkan

9:52 PM

@agent86 Personally, I think they designed some great software and after it took off, created the lofty goals, without noticing that their software did not actually work great with the lofty goals.

badp

@agent86 You see clicking edit, then pasting a sentence, then clicking okay as more work than clicking delete?

Grace Note

@JasonBerkan Genuine interest here, such as?

Mad Scientist

@GraceNote semi-related. Is it intentional that closed questions can be googled? If they weren't we would have theoretically the option to close them and keep them out of sight from the outside. I'm not sure this is a good idea, but I also don't like to remove questions that were useful and were answered in good faith.

agent86

@badp I see the additional 2-3 clicks as being worth the effort to avoid the possibility of false positives. it also distributes the work (any user can edit, only some can delete)

badp

You could argue it's more specialized work, anybody on the internet can edit but not anyone can delete, but still not anyone in the world gives a fuck about this janitorial work to begin with

agent86

9:54 PM

@JasonBerkan well, I think also there's a tendency within a community to elevate the purpose and goals of their work. I saw the same thing in previous communities. people got very upset about stuff, and it was just, y'know, playing a game.

badp

At the end of the day, the set of people who care and the set of people who can delete doesn't overlap completely but comes rather close

and the set of people who care and the set of people who can flag overlaps

Grace Note

@MadScientist Duplicates.

agent86

@badp tell ya what, every time one of these obsolete and notable things happens, I will cut and paste myself. you can just ping me with the question id or whatever.

Mad Scientist

@GraceNote but non-duplicates can also be found via Google

Grace Note

@MadScientist No special case logic there.

badp

9:56 PM

@agent86 There's already a system that automates this, it's called flagging. "Delete question" is one very prominent button when this happens.

The system is built to favour deletion.

agent86

@badp I'd also take the current, lengthy discussion on the bridge as evidence that there are several people who would be willing to take a community-approved action on an obsolete, notable item.

Grace Note

Past duplicates, again, it all rolls back to "Closure is a temporary state". Introducing weird Google rules for questions closed under certain circumstances sometimes for a state that either it'll be back to Google-able or won't be Google-able anyway... not really a thing I see anyone looking forward to implementing. Low gain for complexity.

agent86

here's a bunch of people pressing a bunch of keys to say "we should do something about obsolete notable content"

badp

The discussion's length is brought to us by our unwillingness to change our mind and/or failure to change others' minds rather than the amount of people who chimed in on this.

Dave McClelland

@BenBrocka That's "Headphone 'S' Words", Mr. Connery, not "Headphone Swords"

agent86

9:58 PM

now we're arguing about the argument. it's so meta :)

can we argue about our arguing about the argument next?

badp

Also, I missed the part where these two questions are notable in any way shape or form

Dave McClelland

@agent Meta.chat.stackexchange is clearly needed

Ben Brocka

This one's just...lewd

badp

gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/78806/… gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/65814/…

↑ these two "notable" questions for your reviewing pleasure

agent86

@BenBrocka mustache rides, 5 rep

badp

9:59 PM

One's got 6k views, the other's 300.

Mad Scientist

@GraceNote despite the intention of closure as temporary, which I very much agree with, in practice reopening is the rare exception. And by exposing closed, non constructive and similar questions to Google we're not exactly making the internet a better place

Dave McClelland

@agent86 I now know how I'm going to get myself to 10k

agent86

@badp notable in this case means it attracted some form of attention - people posted it on the bridge, it got flagged, a NAA posted, closed, etc

sarge_smith

I would point out that it wasn't the notableness of these questions that sparked the debate, it was the precedent set that did

agent86

just some reason why it's bubbling back out of the big data heap to the attention of the community.

Jason Berkan

10:00 PM

@GraceNote I'll have to get back to you. Chat moves too fast for me to formulate a decent reply.

GnomeSlice

Today's IGS deal: Flatspace 1 & 2

badp

That's a very poor definition of notable; I could just go through my list of deleted posts and make stuff notable by merely mentioning it.

agent86

@DaveMcClelland a strategy as old as mustaches themselves.

Grace Note

@MadScientist This is something we're actually kinda workin' on.

agent86

@badp this discussion isn't really making sense to me anymore. I don't really know what point we're even trying to make anymore. I think we're just arguing to argue.

Dave McClelland

10:02 PM

@agent86 This gives a much more literal meaning to "rep whoring"

agent86

what I've said is, if anyone wants to bring to my attention obsolete content, I'm happy to put a notice at the top of it, which is one of the more popular things I saw on meta to solve the problem.

Mad Scientist

I thought a few times about making a feature request that would distinguish temporary closure better from permanent closure, but all my ideas were rather complicated and weren't convincing enough

Jason Berkan

@GraceNote Though I will say this. SE created an awesome way for a community to answer questions and for the community to rate the answers. How that can or should be used to "make the Internet a better place" (whatever that truly means) has always perplexed me.

agent86

if someone wants to meta up a better solution, I'm happy to do whatever that is

Lazers

1

Q: What benefit do I get for 100% synchronization?

I see that many missions have a challenge associated with them, in order to get 100% synchronization. What benefit(s) do I get for achieving 100% synchronization? Some of the challenges are kind of hard, and there seem to be a million of them, so I want to understand if it is worth it.

assassins-creed-bh

0

Q: What should be done with out of version questions?

Gaming is a fast moving field and sometimes things get left behind or shut down. What should we do with the content on the site that is no longer pertinent to the current state of gaming? Should we preserve it as a nod to the past and those people who put some effort into answering and curating t...

discussion

Grace Note

10:03 PM

There's a lot of issue with closing and reopening, largely the difficulty of the latter in the cases where it should be happenin'. We're working on some nice changes based around the entire theory of closure, but it still sticks strong to "This is a temporary state", and not a brand on the question.

agent86

I think it would be a waste of time to dig through old content looking for things to do work on. If someone else wants to dig through old content and point things out, I'm happy to be the Action Guy and Action those things into submission.

Ullallulloo

@GnomeSlice Is that the Star Trek logo behind their name?

GnomeSlice

@Ullallulloo No, but it does look like a triangle.

Grace Note

@JasonBerkan Mmhmm.

Mad Scientist

@GraceNote I disagree to some part. There is a rather large part of closed questions that are not salvageable and where closing is anything but temporary.

badp

10:05 PM

@JasonBerkan Google juice

Grace Note

@MadScientist Why are they still on the site if they're unsalvageable?

badp

The unbelievably mad amounts of google juice we get.

@GraceNote How is an hopelessly irrelevant question salvageable and thus still on the site?

Grace Note

@badp This is based on whether we consider "irrelevance" in this manner to be an actual harmful knock against it, something that would require salvation. This is kinda what the original inquiry posed.

By choosing to accept the mission of a museum, naturally the implication is that these questions do belong on the site.

Mad Scientist

@GraceNote because if we mods delete them immediately we circumvent the community review, and the process to delete older,, closed questions is rather arbitrary and annoying because you can't filter out duplicates, which should not be deleted

Grace Note

@MadScientist This sounds like an issue with the speed and accessibility of the deletion stage moreso than the makings of closure.

Powerlord

10:08 PM

Help us @LessPop_MoreFizz, you're our only hope!

LessPop_MoreFizz

@Powerlord wat

wat did I do

Powerlord

@LessPop_MoreFizz Scroll up

Grace Note

If the problem is that stuff that shouldn't be around is sticking around when it shouldn't, that is the problem. Not the closure status.

Jason Berkan

@badp That's kind of my point. Until SO was big, there was no Google juice. There were just programmers asking and answering questions.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@Powerlord Not sure what I can contribute to this one.

Also I need to get to UPS dropoff before the last pickup, so later!

Powerlord

10:11 PM

Whoa, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is 20 years old? o_O

Now I feel old.

Ullallulloo

@GnomeSlice Pretty close.

Mad Scientist

I think we don't distinguish enough between questions that just need some edits', and questions that are fundamentally not a good fit and can't be saved. Reapating that closing is temporary is fine, but telling someone that his questions could be reopened is unfair and a waste of time if that question is not actually salvageable

GnomeSlice

@Ullallulloo Not really.

Grace Note

@MadScientist I don't know how much I can spill, but I will say that a lot of our recent talks, especially at the summit, were about this very topic.

@BenBrocka Did you get the true ending yet?

Powerlord

@AshleyNunn Did you get the true ending yet?

Jason Berkan

10:14 PM

@GraceNote That's awesome to hear.

Powerlord

(this is only funny because we're talking about completely different games)

badp

@GraceNote Do we have what it takes to run a museum in the first place? Like, glass cases to put those questions in so that no people can get their greasy fingers all over 'em?

Mad Scientist

And a touchscreen keyboard is no replacement for a real one when I'm trying to discuss that kind of stuff

Ullallulloo

Unrelated, but one more person want to open this?

Powerlord

@badp It belongs in a museum!

Grace Note

10:15 PM

@badp Not all museums have these and they still trust people.

badp

I don't think I've been in one.

@Jason gj

For Macross/Robotech fans.

Ullallulloo

@GnomeSlice gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/61680/…

badp

10:16 PM

Well, okay, unless we're considering e.g. paintings, which have those cloth strings running across the sides of rooms

...and alarms that set off if one gets too close

GnomeSlice

@Ullallulloo what about it

Grace Note

@MadScientist What I can hint at probably is that one of the things we looked at is the instruction that is given through closure, what can be changed to convey the things that can be repaired versus what must be overhauled versus nothing helping.

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert AHHHHHHHHHHHH

Ullallulloo

@GnomeSlice It's open.

Ben Brocka

@GraceNote Ages ago, conquest too. Trying to get to chapter 4 for the 4th? time to get all the various other endings for trophies (no more playthroughs though)

Grace Note

10:17 PM

@BenBrocka Alright, so you saw the CG scene for the last trophy there for seeing a certain CG, right?

GnomeSlice

@Ullallulloo It was opened a while ago.

Grace Note

Not the hot springs one.

GnomeSlice

@fbueckert This is actually a really shitty trailer. Please be real anyway.

fbueckert

@GnomeSlice It's indie, dude.

Ullallulloo

@GnomeSlice "occurred 2 mins ago "

Ben Brocka

10:18 PM

@GraceNote ...probably. It's been a week so I forget what any of them were

GnomeSlice

@Ullallulloo did it get closed again?

Because it was opened like yesterday.

Ullallulloo

@GnomeSlice It never got opened.

GnomeSlice

It did so!

Ullallulloo

@GnomeSlice It just got undeleted.

gaming.stackexchange.com/posts/61680/revisions

GnomeSlice

@Ullallulloo NO, I'M TELLING YOU

@BADP

DID IT?

badp

10:19 PM

wat

Ullallulloo

2 days ago, by badp

@Ullallulloo I undeleted but I'm not going to force a reopen

GnomeSlice

@badp tell him his things

oh.

OKAY THEN

badp

@Ullallulloo his things

Ullallulloo

@badp :O

badp

looks over at @GnomeSlice confusingly, making the cabbage hand gesture

Ben Brocka

10:20 PM

Wait, yes I have, all the trophies left are for the console/human endings

And beating delphinis

Grace Note

@BenBrocka Well, if I say something along the lines of "The discussions about closure got heated to the point that, for a moment, all I heard was indistinguishable from a bunch of CPUs bickering with each other", that ring a bell and illustrate an appropriate image in your head? Granted, in this case it was more productive right afterwards, but point is, for that moment... that one moment...

Ben Brocka

@GraceNote Ohhh yeah. Forgot you got a trophy for that one

I liked that the sisters were like "whatever" and just playing on their portables

Grace Note

Quite.

agent86

Grace Note

@badp So, one thing I was going to say was that "This requires a certain amount of resource that not all places have, which rounds to my point that museum curation didn't wait until we had proper tech and resource before the practice began."

badp

10:23 PM

@GraceNote Yeah, well, but then you need to place one steward per museum room, and they need to - like - be actually watching what's going on rather than chatting casually with people.

Might be easier to just delete at this point.

At any rate

2

Q: Allow questions to become unlisted

An "unlisted" question is deleted for all practical purposes, except it's visible to people who have a link to it. This would allow us to have a graceful way to "retire" questions about topics that are no longer relevant to the world here and now but have been in the past. They don't have to be...

feature-request information-rot

[information-rot] will probably need to be replaced by something else that MSO actually does have

This can't possibly be the first post on MSO about such issues?

Grace Note

@badp I'm amazed we don't have an information rot tag prior to now.

Ben Brocka

[link-rot]

Grace Note

...hum.

badp

@BenBrocka This isn't quite that, link rot was mostly used to refer to the very first review queue to audit outgoing links (the one that was never published)

this is about inbound links

Powerlord

Wow, I made the mistake of creating my connection pool and datasource in my app server's application instead of the main pool... and redeploying the app wiped the connection pool and datasource.

Ben Brocka

10:27 PM

@badp There was lots of talk of link-rot due to deleting famous questions on SO/etc as well

badp

@BenBrocka oh, okay.

Oh look, downvotes!

Mana

oh god I'm so sick of video games

and restless as hell. I can't do anything today.

Jason Berkan

@Mana I think you have to turn in your mod status now.

Ullallulloo

@Mana Well, you came to the right place.

badp

@Mana Super Hexagon is not the kind of games I'd play to relax myself tbh

Mana

10:29 PM

@badp yeah...my eyes hurt.

I was actually suffering from an optical illusion where I thought there was height in the game.

Grace Note

@Mana Do what I did. Go on a three month hiatus from gaming so that you can do hardcore focus on your game dev work, then realize that you were far less productive in those three months on account of burn-out and so you realize that there's a necessity to play games in order to make them.

Ben Brocka

@badp I dunno, I play bullet hell games to relax lots of times. But not Super Hexagon, screw that

You do have to be good at them for it to be relaxing though

Grace Note

@BenBrocka But they are oh-so-relaxing when you are~

Mana

and things started getting inverted and stuff like that, my character was not where I thought it should be.

that's how long I've been playing Super Hexagon for today.

badp

@Mana man, I saw you open Super Hexagon roughly 30 minutes ago.

Mana

10:31 PM

On the plus side of things...I only have hardest and then hyper hardest left to go!

@badp I closed it briefly.

badp

@Mana Oh.

Mana

I opened it at 2 pm.

Ben Brocka

@GraceNote May I attempt to shoot 256 bullets into your body?

Mana

51 seconds on hardest was very demoralizing.

Grace Note

@BenBrocka Attempt is an operative word here.

Mana

10:33 PM

What's annoying is that the game isn't even that difficult anymore -- I've hit the point where the majority of the difficulties feel very slow.

It's just that the controls on hardest are very finicky.

badp

@BenBrocka but you only win if you hit her belly button.

Mana

@GraceNote What's a good Touhou game?

badp

@Mana *hyper hexagonest

Grace Note

Subterranean Animism.

Ben Brocka

@Mana The Gundemonium Collection (on Steam and PS3) is great

Grace Note

10:36 PM

Note that you gave me very vague terms to work on so naturally I've given you one filled with extreme amounts of pain.

Ben Brocka

Or for free (and relatively quite easy) there's Bullet Heaven

Grace Note

@BenBrocka Those ain't Touhou though. If he had asked for shmups in general I might've suggested summat a mite different.

LessPop_MoreFizz

REGARDING PETE SEEGER’S REQUESTS FOR A HAMMER AND HIS DESCRIPTIONS OF WHAT HE WOULD DO IF HE HAD ONE.

2

Grace Note

@BenBrocka Surely there's a cleaner link you can give for Bullet Heaven? I like that game, too.

Ben Brocka

@GraceNote I assumed he meant bullet hell, not literally "from the touhou series"

@GraceNote probably I just copied it from google

Mana

10:38 PM

@BenBrocka no, I meant Touhou

@LessPop_MoreFizz and mandatory background

LessPop_MoreFizz

@Mana One would assume that that song is just common knowledge. I mean, why wouldn't it be?

> Thor thinks it’s likely that you have a pretty poor understanding of what Mjolnir, Thor’s hammer, is really all about. War, Pete. It is war hammer! You could not hammer out love between brothers and sisters. Hammer out brains between brothers and sisters maybe! Ha! Thor conquers humor! Thor should do an open-microphone night!

Mana

@LessPop_MoreFizz Hey man, it's The Bridge. You can't assume anything.

badp

I do know about S'i Fossi Foco (If I Were Fire), is that relevant?

Mana

> And you should know that there has been a spirited and still ongoing debate about alerting the authorities, since establishing love between your brothers and your sisters with a … hammer?! … has many of us very nervous.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@Mana His other similar articles are pretty great too, FYI.

A LETTER BETWEEN SIBLINGS WHO LIVED IN THE HOUSE DESCRIBED IN “OUR HOUSE” BY MADNESS.

GnomeSlice

10:48 PM

@badp the... the what?

badp

Mana

> To be quite honest, the childhood I spent in our house was one of constant blinding terror, owing entirely to the location: in the middle of our street. Not along our street or recessed from our street or up a winding footpath from our street like other houses. No. Our house? In the middle of our street. I mean, whose idea was that? A disgruntled city planner’s?

GnomeSlice

@badp The italian thing, gotcha.

Mana

omg this is amazing.

GnomeSlice

@Mana Never read mcsweeny's before?

Mana

10:50 PM

@GnomeSlice NO

EXCUSE ME MR. MCSWEENY HIPSTER.

GnomeSlice

@Mana YES YOU HAVE

Mana

@GnomeSlice oh, so I have.

GnomeSlice

HAHAHAHAHAHA YES

BAM BITCHES

Mana

MAGNETS

WHOO!

badp

mcsweeneys.net/articles/im-comic-sans-asshole

This is the only one I remember reading in full, although I've seen the unmistakable graphic design of the site multiple times.

followed by endless walls of text about cultural references I could never hope to get

LessPop_MoreFizz

10:52 PM

@Mana I think this one is my favorite of them.A LETTER TO PRINCE REGARDING THE CRYING OF DOVES AND THE FIASCO THAT RESULTED FROM THE PRESENTATION OF A SPEECH ON THAT TOPIC.

Clipboard fail.

Mana

> Also, as you know, we were all quite fond of your father, Tubold. Knowing how rigorous Tubold’s academic standards were, we thought his son would be just as thorough and insightful. But you are not like your father, Tubold.

GnomeSlice

@badp One of my favourites.

LessPop_MoreFizz

Sincerely,

Nicholas E. Darling
President
American Ornithological Society

I think that is probably the best part.

Mana

> Then, in the midst of all this chaos, you informed us that the screaming itself was the sound that doves make when they cry. And, I mean, what? No it’s not.

LessPop_MoreFizz

Just for @badp, a McSweeneys article about pop music in which he is guaranteed to get the various joke's. WAYS IN WHICH SHE COULD HAVE BLINDED ME WITH SCIENCE.

badp

10:59 PM

er... um... hahahaha. ha. hahah. ha. no.

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