Morning

@MisterPositive If you're still interested in electorate vs reputation stats I whipped up a quick query here: data.stackexchange.com/workplace/query/989773/…

This is an example for last election. the monday after this one is over (so in 2 weeks), you can run this with the start / end date of this election and type in what thresholds for voter reputation you'd like to see. In my example, it shows that last year's election had 491 total voters, 245 of which had below 500 reputation, and 388 of which had below 2000

Expanded the Query a bit to include Q/A Counts as Metric: data.stackexchange.com/workplace/query/989781/…

Just got downvoted + VTD on my SO answer because another answer, on another question, already exists

how the hell am I supposed to rep-farm if mostly everything has already been asked? jayzus...

@rath trying to rep farm on SO is like trying to use a rude goldberg machine to make a cup of tea. It doesn't generally work, you don't generally know why and you end up frustrated and burned more often then any other outcome

I see. I thought our site had problems welcoming users but now I understand what all the meta-spam was about

Here's an easily answerable question - but no - let me do an in-depth search to find something from 2013, with much more details than needed, and tell the user to f-off and read that instead.

well, no

I'll just answer the damn question

@rath pretty much every dev I know uses SO to help them - I only know one who actually dares to ask questions

it's about as welcoming as a spiked baseball bat to the face

@motosubatsu This. I was surprised that as a trainee, i had the more experience/reputation in SO. They use it a lot, but without really contributing, just in a passive way

@motosubatsu yeah, I'd take do-it-yourself dentistry over asking a question there.

@RichardU it would certainly result in less pain and screaming

probably less blood as well

@RichardU Mr. Positive mentioned that you were also interested in moderator election demographics

@Magisch nah, just how many times I've rep capped, I know it's over 200

@motosubatsu depends on the tag you're in. if you're in an established language tag like c or c++, you'll be made to feel like crap immediately as you get scolded by 5+ people

it's really unfortunate

I have a question that's good but I don't wanna ask it on the stack incase said person sees it

@Twyxz growlf?

So i'll ask it here. I work with another apprentice who is the exact same level of experience and in terms of hierarchy. We started at the same time but he doesn't really understand things as quickly as I do. However if we get similar (or the same) task he tends to just try and figure it out but as soon as I figure it out he just asks me how to do it. Without me he would never finish his work but I want to try and get him to figure things out on his own

Learn to research and debug his code

@Twyxz you are doing a disservice by sharing solutions and helping too much

I know but he can literally see my screen

He sits less than a metre away

and my manager sits on the other side of me

so I don't want to just be like nah do it yourself or try to figure it out because when I've finished she'll just say you should've helped him and not left him behind (happened before)

But if I don't help him he never figures it out

@Twyxz He will. Or come to a different, albeit equally valueable conclusion: That the job isn't for him

It actually heavily relates to the guy who got a project given to him and he doesn't wanna ask and look incapable

except this apprentice pretty much is

but if he doesn't ask someone else other than me he isn't going to learn the trade

So here is the problem:

Later in life, help will be sparse. There are situations where you really can't piggyback off of a coworker. In these situations, he will have to do it on his own. Either he can learn it (in which case your acquiescence is hindering that learning) or he can't (in which case you're just delaying that realization). Either is bad

Yeah but I'm trying to get the message for across to him without telling my manager and without dropping him the sh*t when I inevitably leave

so then he can find out what he really wants to do or find out how to do what he is doing

stop helping

I've been trying to hide my monitors

he can just turn his head and see

Because I never get to speed ahead because he is always at the parallel stage

What kind of assigment gets given to both apprentices anyways?

Do they just have you both write the same code?

Well this ones just building an mvc form and forcing it into a website that really doesn't work

and we're doing different forms

which are practically identical

The technical term is "Help Vampire".

@Snow Hodor

o/ @MisterPositive

Morning all

still absorbing my first cup of coffee.

I've had twelve so far.

@Snow Your slacking off good sir.

@Snow for real?

@Twyxz while your fellow apprentice certainly sounds like a help vampire handling them at work is tricky - it's all too easy for the vamp to spin your reluctance to help as you not being a "team player"

@Magisch Possibly eight or ten. I typically get a new coffee when my mug starts getting cool.

@Snow that's hardly any! u ok hun?

@Snow you suffer any ill effects from all that caffeine?

@Snow In all seriousness, I hope you throw some water in there.

Coffee is mostly water.

@Snow LOL you know what I mean sir. You need to stay alive and healthy in order to feed the pups.

Life without your eyelids twitching isn't much of a life at all....

@Snow Ah such is the Mod life. I did not sleep very well at all last night.....booty be a draggin.

@MisterPositive draggin pirate booty to the spot marked by an X, for buryin' arrrr

@RoryAlsop Thank goodness someone got my lame attempt at humor

@MisterPositive depending on how you want to interpret that sentence, it has a secondary, more obscure meaning as well

@MisterPositive I was assuming it was some sort of Destiny's Child reference.. that would have been rather embarrasing

Its Rhianna, not Destiny's Child.

@Snow LMAO

@motosubatsu always assume I am way too old to understand anything by Destiny's Child - other than Beyonce is one of their number

I bet i have the coolest coffee cup of this bunch

@MisterPositive I like mine toasty hot

@MisterPositive Mine is free from a conference. One of those ones you can't tip over

mine is just a plain white mug with a curious octopus on it

it's very good

@MisterPositive impractical though.. how do you stop the coffee from pouring out the side?

@Snow did you learn nothing from last week's Titanium debacle?

@motosubatsu Funny, but the photo on my desktop its oriented correctly

@motosubatsu Nope

@Snow Not bad....how come your photo oriented properly....must be a damn windows 10 thing

grrr

@motosubatsu Yes, Rhianna had to have sung something.

@MisterPositive It's an intelligence thing. Sorry.

I've stopped bringing personal mugs to work.. so far I've had one stolen and two broken. Feck it.. company branded mugs FTW

@motosubatsu I would set this place on fire if my mug came up missing.

@motosubatsu how do you break someone else's mug?

Heads would roll if anyone did that here. A lot of the older employees have cool novelty mugs

@motosubatsu All my water bottles are Stack Exchange branded (except one work provided one) and all my coffee cups are security vendor freebies

@RoryAlsop I want a SE water bottle...

@Magisch Moto works in a farmyard - cows trample everything.

nobody in the office will steal security or SE swag - they all know who it belongs to

@Snow moooooo

@MisterPositive Some are nice. The Bicycles ones are pretty good, but my favourites are the bright orange SO ones

@RoryAlsop I sadly would not know.

one of the apprentices in the warehouse commented the other day how my SE waterbottle was "lame nerd ****"

As a TWP mod, you'll get a small stapler. It's barely powerful enough to staple together two sheets of toilet roll before it jams.

@Snow I am sure Mags will love it.

@Magisch and that is why they are an apprentice. They can learn

But perfectly capable of stabbing your thumb at the least opportunity.

@Snow ouch

right - time to head off to interview someone. Later!

@RoryAlsop thanks for backing my humor!

@RoryAlsop We'll look forward to the inevitable TWP question shortly afterwards.

@Snow you actually got a stapler?

On that note, the SE watch swag finally ships on monday \o/

Time to roll, enjoy the day!

Thought I'd take one to the interview :-)

\o/

See if the candidate recognises it

I have the same bottle

@RoryAlsop Do you work at a bank, by any chance?

So, the current trend with the sales managers here is to wear tweed or fleece gilets in the office.

@Snow lol, yes I do, but that is not what I am interviewing the candidate for. I'm a Fellow of the Institute of Information Security Professionals, so I interview candidates for membership

Mmmmm, bagels in the office. I will amend my diet for the day, and pay penance tomorrow.

Would it be okay to follow a user around and tell them to adhere to the Be Nice policy? (prely hypothetical scenario, of course)

@AnneDaunted If he's not being nice, sure.

then if he ignores it, just start flagging away

@AnneDaunted Probably unfruitful. Flag a comment with a custom flag highlighting the pattern

Mods have a better lever to talk with a user about their tone

@RichardU What if a mod saw the post I have a problem with and decided to not act, still okay?

@AnneDaunted flag another mod?

How do you flag specific mods? It's not possible as far as I know

@AnneDaunted you can also bring it to our attention here. I think three users flagging a comment automatically get's it deleted

you cant

all mods see all flags

@Magisch you can ping a mod in chat

not all mods, but generally yes

for instance monica isn't pingable here

@RichardU What if you do and the mod later enters chat but doesn't answer you or say anything about it?

@AnneDaunted then you may need to bring it to the attention of SE employees

@RichardU Would you?

@AnneDaunted not at this point, as I am generally reviled and have one foot out the door and another on a banana peel, but others might get better mileage than I.

But, at least I know where I stand.

@RichardU Do you really think so?

@RichardU not true. You are definitely listened to

@AnneDaunted If the flags were dismissed, typically I'd remind them you had raised a few flags and were wondering what the outcome was going to be, but all site mods see the flags so there should be visibility

On sites with a lot of flags it can be a challenge though

Your approach on other sites is clear and thorough so I would expect it to generally work

@AnneDaunted Yes. And funny enough not so hypothetical ;-)

@AnneDaunted In all seriousness though, flagging should get the job done.

@RoryAlsop This seems indeed like a good approach

@MisterPositive But if the mod(s) don't act - what if I'm wrong in my judgment or it's borderline?

@AnneDaunted If the Moderator feels that way, they should communicate that to you IMO.

@MisterPositive If you won, you would?

@AnneDaunted I would certainly try. As a regular user, I don't like feeling ignored.

I also don't like feeling ignored

Btw., the original "edit invalidating top voted answer" question has about twice as many views as the questionnaire.

I will say based on my experience with our current crew of moderators, I haven't felt ignored. It may be that they are either really busy, or are pondering the appropriate response. ( pure speculation here on my part ) @AnneDaunted

I guess you are right. maybe they may want to get some other mod's input first, too

@AnneDaunted another thing is that flags take some time to resolve. Mods here do not swing the axe willy-nilly.

They should take their time

@AnneDaunted On a humorous note, every time I read a question, we have a user who earns my flags on a regular basis...

@MisterPositive I suspect I know who that is, but I won't name names.

@AnneDaunted just wait until you get a downvote stalker or two.

@RichardU I guess I know it, too

@RichardU I won't confirm or deny anything.

@AnneDaunted the good news is that if this becomes a pattern with an individual, and multiple people start flagging the same user, the mods will take a serious look at it, and take action, usually quietly and behind the scenes.

@RichardU Yours got caught?

@AnneDaunted I have received a few friendly reminders in the past.

not to say that the occasionaly silly action isn't taken as well, but overall.. not bad.

greetings @user10940316

interesting name you've got there. are you fond of the number 316?

@RichardU you have almost 100k rep, does a downvote stalker really bother you? I guess the -1 rep for DVing answers hits them harder than -2 hits you

@AnneDaunted I'm more amused by it than anything. Usually, I get the attack of the downvotes on days I rep cap anyway, so it literally has no effect on me whatsoever.

@RichardU I kind of like the term downvote stalker. I call them admirers

they just push the wrong button

@AnneDaunted there are people who just hate anyone who do anything even a little bit better than they can. If you get a downvoter, it is a kind of admirer. It's their way of telling you that they know they'll never be as good as you are ;)

Sometimes a DV may be justified, though ;-)

@AnneDaunted more often than not, it's just someone not liking what you posted.

@Magisch I suspect it was generally just typical kitchen clumsiness - it did irritate me that no-one would ever fess up to this sort of thing. It's just a mug after all but there is the principle of the thing

@Snow funny you should say that.. one of the other sites I occasionally visit for the current client is in actual fact a farm. No cows though (unless giant frozen hunks that were formerly a cow count?)

I tend to steer clear of the meat plant where possible anyway - it's more than a little fragrant

^ RIP Human Empathy - we hardly knew ye

@motosubatsu When I was in between jobs, I worked retail. If that doesn't destroy your faith in humanity, nothing will

I always hear that. I wonder if american retail is different?

Here a grocery store cashier is a medium wage job that has an apprenticeship dedicated to it. And the few people I know who work as one really dont get too much grief

outside of people trying to do bogus returns

@RichardU I can sympathize - during my student years I worked several holidays in Greggs. Which basically means obnoxious, hungry tourists queuing out the door all expecting haute cuisine levels of quality and service when buying their 99p sausage roll

@Magisch notalwaysright.com

@Magisch If a Hindu in India lives a particularly wicked life, he is reincarnated as a retail worker in America

@motosubatsu Many people insist that much of what is posted on notalwaysright is fiction. None of it so far has been worse than what I have seen with my own eyes

I have that customer service voice and demenour going on when talking to internal clients

(coworkers that we write software for)

@Magisch Being familiar with both cultures, I can tell you that in Germany, retail workers are treated far, far better than in America. In America, you're treated like crap in retail.

I mean, I never understood people making a scene

the nicer and more pleasant you act, the more willing the workers are to make an exception anyways

@Magisch from my (limited) experiences as a customer in Germany it's always seemed much more civilized an arena than the US (or even the UK)

If I want to maximize my shopping efficiency and returns, being rude is literally counterproductive

and yelling at the cashier has no impact on written store policy, so whatever

@Magisch I know this, you know this. But to your average Angry American Customer it's tha goddamm CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to yell at the poor cashier, question their citizenship, their religious affiliation, perhaps even kick it old school and suggest that telling them that they can't return their week old, half-eaten hamburger for a full refund might just be unpatriotic and/or communist

@Magisch The culture is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY different

The only thing worse than retail is fastfood, where your chances of getting assaulted are pretty damn good

@RichardU I thought I covered that? :D

@RichardU yeah, happens here too

I once took on a customer that made a coworker of mine cry (and she was TOUGH!). He was an obnoxious, college professor type (may have actually been one) who thought he was better than everyone, talked down to people, was cuttingly insulting and really tried to hurt people..... After he made her cry, they let me loose on him..... it wasn't pretty

Long story short. I infuriated the prof, my coworker was watching from the back, laughing her butt off. Every time he came back, they threw me at him. Eventually he stopped coming.

@RichardU During one of my stints working in a restaurant I saw what chefs do to the food of people who upset the waitstaff. Suffice it to say a) the customers in question all deserved it and b) I will never, ever be rude to waitstaff.. ever

@RichardU 4) Security guards

also as I've heard before (and agree with) - If someone is a nice person to you and an asshole to the waiter - they really are an asshole

@motosubatsu I know of more than one hiring manager who likes to do lunch interviews for just that reason. SPOT THE ASSHOLE

@motosubatsu also 5)Janitors/custodians

One place the building maintenance was handled by an old man, who happened to be the brother of the owner of both the company and the building it resided in. Guess what happened to the jackass interviewee who was rude to the old man on the way in?

@RichardU similarish thing happens by coincidence here. One of the owners is handy and quite cheap, so the 200+ employee company has only one repair technician and the owner helps out a lot. Also assumes a lot of maintenance / janitorial positions, and likes to dress down a lot (comfy sweater & 10 year old jeans nearly exclusively)

the other owner has a tweed jacket on most of the time

@Magisch "be kind to every man you meet, from peasant to a king, for even the smallest insect has, and will use, it's sting" -Ben Franklin

@MisterPositive a snarky comment to her answer that got upvoted might have something to do with it.

Time to start flagging again. I'll probably run through the Q&A tonight and grant the moderators an assist by reviewing them. No need for such nastiness.

@RichardU Damn. Cannot flag it if its DELETED.

@MisterPositive we can if it's UNDELETED ;) one vote cast already

Two

if one more soul would vote.....

crickets..

My new years resolution is to take the nastiness down a few pegs in here.

@AnneDaunted I agree. Bring your answer back. It was especially valuable to have a female perspective.

@RichardU Weird that I can see the comments on Fatties answer and not Annes

@AnneDaunted I planned on giving my bounty to you, but I cannot if its, well deleted.

Need one more vote to un delete it. ;-)

[ENTERING SLEEP MODE]

@MisterPositive I would but with out knowing why she deleted her answer I really hate to overrule her choice and force her to endure the comments.

Hello everybody

@DarkCygnus Greetings, programs

Greetings @RichardU

@DarkCygnus an amazingly quiet election we are having, eh?

it's been calm tbh

I also see that one nominee didn't answer the questions :0

@DarkCygnus that's what I should have done last time. Just put my name up, walked away, and viewed the results when I got back in a few weeks.

last time, I feel elections left more bad than good

in other topic, I paused viewing Star Trek: Discovery

I'd hate to binge watch it to the point I have to wait a week for the new episodes :(

So, I am now watching anime again, started the Fate series

@IDrinkandIKnowThings I understand...

One should not have endure comments....

@MisterPositive Honestly, I think the site would be much better without them.

@RichardU me too

Imagine that comments had like some sort of expiration time... and after some, say minutes, they get deleted

@DarkCygnus This is fantastic idea. Comments are not evil, so you can use them, but they all expire at some point

Enjoy the weekend everyone...

@MisterPositive you too Neo :)

I also like the answer from Anne

And I also think one should not have to delete or withhold a good answer for the fear of nasty comments (that can be flagged/handled)

@MisterPositive third casted. Answer back again. +1