Universe Software

You have Models, which contain all the actual logic, Views, which display things, and Controllers, which bind the two together.

@ArtOfCode Your repo is a dead link

Hmm. OK, hang about

@Zizouz212 'S cos I deleted it. Link's on the right -->

8:14 PM

-_-

At least cancel the stars...

There's an alternative here.

@bilbo_pingouin You said you were thinking of doing some Python?

@Zizouz212 said that if something were to be calculated I'd have to do it in python

I can, and I like python more than Java

@bilbo_pingouin Aye. You can do Python? Good.

@Zizouz212 can also do Python.

If you've got an object, it's ridiculously simple to port it into java

but we we'd rather stick to java, that's also fine by me

8:17 PM

5-6 lines to call the script and to get the object

My thought: if we hire @bowlturner, we can do the GUI in WPF using C#, and use Python scripts

@bowlturner You good with GUIs?

yeah, but it would be a pain for me to run it...

@bilbo_pingouin Ah. More of a problem.

Of course, that's why we decided Java in the first place isn't it. OK, do ignore me :)

@Zizouz212 Java is back on

well, I'll have to check

8:19 PM

Um, ok :)

It would come out as an exe

maybe there are some VM-.Net-like that run on linux

I've got osx

@bilbo_pingouin Ziz tells me there's a 'wine' that does this

Ah, Wine

Not the best for large applications, but it does the job remarkably well in most cases

Wine: wiki.winehq.org/FrontPage

8:20 PM

yeah wine exists, but it is awfully slow and does not always work

I got a compiler/simulator to run on wine not long ago though, was ok

otherwise there is mono

but I need to read more about it.

OK, let's just go Java.

It sounds far easier than messing around trying to get support, when we already have support for Java on all our machines

with Java we would be more portable

And that.

bowlturner

@Zizouz212 I'm not bad and I've had a bit of WPF exP

Alright, you guys seriously need to stop using short forms, unless i know them!

8:22 PM

it does not matter if we're slower... it's supposed to be a fun project, isn't it?

@bilbo_pingouin The man speaks the truth.

@Zizouz212 that's a C# thingy

I'm not much of a developer, testing is more my thing. I'm happy to contribute test cases to the cause.

OK, my point of view: If we can get support for running exes on bilbo_pingouin's setup, then I'd much prefer to do it with C#.

Ah, C#, don't know anything C (although I'm planning on learning C or C++)

8:23 PM

@Green Any help is helpful

Welcomd to the discussion, Green.

@Zizouz212 C# is basically Java, just API differences

thanks :)

C/C++ are the odd ones

But what's the difference between C/C++ I've never really understood it

8:24 PM

what was the github link again?

@Green On the right -->

between C and C++ ?

@Zizouz212 Nor me :)

there are quite a few

I imagine much like the differences between Java and C#: minimal

...I stand corrected.

8:25 PM

no, well C++ is pretty much like Java, C#... OOP and all

Basically, C++ is C with object oriented stuff built in.

but C isn't.

Ah

bowlturner

Sorry @Zizouz212 I was answering 2 questions from two people, and didn't notice

Java/C# are C++ without the ugly memory management issues (and a runtime to do garbage collection and bunch of other stuff.)

Any one have Erlang experience?

I'm curious about it.

8:26 PM

@Green Nope.

I would present it differently, but yes what Green said

neither do I

Can I just throw another tangential issue in for a moment?

Copyright.

Ooooooohhh

Specifically what about copyright?

Copywrite!

8:27 PM

How do we deal with it? We can keep our copyrights, but what about when we get contributions?

@Zizouz212 Is a completely different thing!

@ArtOfCode We make it clear, that contributions fall under the ownership of the organization

Simple?

How do larger projects handle it? This feels like a problem that's been solved before.

@Zizouz212 Universe Factory isn't a legal entity that can hold copyright.

Why not?

I'm in the process of writing a legal file that says "Universe Factory" refers to the owners of the Universe Factory GH org.

@Zizouz212 Because we haven't made it one

8:29 PM

@ArtOfCode Then let's do that :)

The important points are:

@Zizouz212 Either difficult, or costs money.

I've checked that one.

The important points are:

how do the others do that?

(1) Do we keep out copyrights, or do we assign them to one person between us?

Or maybe, have each person responsible for a sector in the project, and contributions are their copyright?

(2) When receiving contributions, do we let them keep their copyrights, or do we ask them to assign to us?

@Zizouz212 Possibly, yes

8:31 PM

I think that would make it simple.

Or for each pull request, they must raise an issue, and whoever is assigned the issue gains the copyright?

@ArtOfCode What's the downside if we let everyone keep their copyrights to themselves and demand an acceptable license?

Like if it's GPL-2 or something?

Q: What is the difference between a CLA and a CTA?

@Green There are arguments for and against. Lemme find something

8

I've seen that some projects require a Contributor License Agreement (CLA) and some require a Copyright Transfer Agreement (CTA). Some examples of places using a CLA: Django Google jQuery Some examples of places using a CTA: Oracle Cisco What is the difference between these two agreement...

contributor-agreements

Ah, Open Source SE shall be our best friend!

Frankly, I'd go for a CLA

They license their contributions to us

@ArtOfCode "CTA's are also used to ensure that the final product is single-copyright, instead of having multiple copyrights across the codebase." Is having multiple copyrights in the product going to be a problem for us?

8:34 PM

they get to keep their copyright

If not, then I say we go with the CLA.

@Green It's legally messy, but it's probably not a problem.

Seems I'm our legal man xD

Are we ever going to charge money for this project or is going to stay a free beer open source project forever?

A: How is selling FLOSS packages for monetary compensation a viable strategy?

@Green If it's open source, selling it is unlikely to make us money. People can copy the source code for free, compile it themselves, and distribute elsewhere for free

The trick with making money on these things is to sell peripherals.

8

You are correct, selling FOSS packages for money is generally a bad idea: someone else will come along, promoting their free distribution, and take all your customers away. This is not a very viable business strategy. However, what you can do is sell peripherals: little extra bits that nobody el...

@ArtOfCode or sell support (not that I ever ever ever want back into a support role again. Calls at 3am are not my favorite.)

8:36 PM

I'd go for CLA

@Green Solution: don't answer them :)

OK, I'll get us a CLA and commit that before any code.

And the Apache license.

@ArtOfCode and that rapidly leads to not getting any alls.

calls*

@Green I wouldn't mind handling support. I think the biggest thing will be to just document things in the wiki

@Zizouz212 Yep. And make it easy for people to use :)

@ArtOfCode So I can also take charge in the wiki (which will work out since I'm running the GUI as well)

8:39 PM

@Zizouz212 Yup.

fair enough

It's rough right now, but we can make it pretty once we actually start developing the project

@ArtOfCode, my github user is: github.com/51stpage

@Green Invitation sent

I'll accept when I get home.

8:44 PM

Can I make a logo for the organization?

Has anyone started working on a vision or requirements for this project?

@Zizouz212 If you like

@Green Nope :)

So what are we actually making? (It's hilarious to me that we are building up all the infrastructure to build something but don't know what we're building yet. :) )

What do we want "Universe Factory" to mean?

@ArtOfCode, you take care of the legal, I'll take care of automated builds (if appropriate), requirements and QA.

Someone else write the code, I'll break it for you.

@Green Heh, always a good job.

And holy hell, if we don't have an automated build and test setup, there will be something very wrong.

Anyone object to Travis-CI?

8:47 PM

lol

@Green My code isn't normally breakable...

@Zizouz212 Big words.... :)

@Green never heard of it ^^"

It's like Jenkins, only in the cloud so you don't have to futz with server configs or software updates. For each build, it generates a fresh Docker container of your choosing then builds and tests your code. It can also do artifact uploads if desired.

@Green No objections

It's free for open source projects (who don't do a build every five minutes though that won't be a problem for us.)

8:49 PM

tonight's a bit late for that, but tomorrow, I'll try to put up some points about how I view the whole thing

@bilbo_pingouin

what we could implement and so on