@Zizouz212 I'll be back with some input once I find out what I've missed. :-)

@ArtOfCode I was wondering when that would be finished.

@ArtOfCode Sorry; I'm not good with that.

@ArtOfCode I'll vote web.

Wow, that was a long transcript. I couldn't load to my last message at first; it was too long.

@ArtOfCode I can create a GitHub account soon. I already have one for school, but I'll use a different one for this, for clarity.

@ArtOfCode Okay, I created an account (username HDE226868).

Okay, so I'm not quite sure how to translate the calculations into code.

I can easily (well, they're tedious but easy to get the hang of) do them by hand, but turning them into an algorithm might be tougher. I also don't know if I can turn them into an analytical formula. I can do it for one method.

I would prefer the web version if possible but I don't mind if it's the other one since I'm not doing the coding :)

@HDE226868 What calculation?

@Vincent I've been working on the terrain generator a bit.

oh, the link that you mentioned somewhere far above

Other resources some of you might be interested in: davidson16807.github.io/tectonics.js and (not free) secure.profantasy.com/products/ft.asp

@Vincent Interesting.

@HDE226868 I'll see if I can add you in :)

@HDE226868 Invitation sent. You should see something in your email :)

@Zizouz212 Okay, thanks.

So you prefer web, eh?

$$z_m=\frac{z_i+z_j}{2}+S\times\sqrt{E[(z_i-z_j)^2]-(E[(z_i-z_j)]^2}\times\frac{‌​1}{\sqrt{E[(z_i-z_j)^2]-(E[(z_i-z_j)])^2}\sqrt{2\pi}}e^{-\frac{(x-E[(z_i-z_j)])^2‌​}{2(E[(z_i-z_j)^2]-(E[(z_i-z_j)]^2)}}$$

wats?

@Zizouz212 That's what the algorithm has to calculate for each two points in each iteration for generating the terrain.

Wowz, what language is that even?

@Zizouz212 That's the math. It's not translated into code yet.

What language is planned?

That's just the math?

Without the formula for $E[X]$ plugged in, yes.

@HDE226868 Main language is Java, but if it's running a script to calculate a value, any language is fine (most common is Python)

I can just write a hook to get the value returned by a script anyway. It should be fine.

That's the simplest one, as far as I can tell.

Woah, the site's in read-only mode.

which site?

Can I post here now?

yabadadbo

badabdoo

haha

leewahhhh

yahaaa

beedobeedo

oh

it works

No, sir! You may not :)

Actually @Zizouz212, have you ever heard of Griffin and Groovy? It's a nicer version of Java with an easier UI lib (I think. I haven't done a test project with Griffin to say for sure.)

So I remember @James complaining about 150 messsages on chat.. he should try to be coming early in the morning in Europe... ;-)

so to the questions, I can do some HTML(5), CSS(3) (but I am lousy for design), or reasonable JS/jQuery, PHP, I have some theory, but not much practice... SQL, I can copy-paste commands :D

I think it was perfectly well summarised, the web-thing is easier for users, and desktop easier for us. My vote would be desktop.

As I wrote, I wanted to put up something together to explain what I had in mind when suggesting the whole thing, but you were already discussing that yesterday... :-) So in short words...

My idea was to start the SW, and get a blue map, possibly a blue sphere (3D...?). Without considering ux for the moment, the user could click a "make a map" button, where the shpere would be divided in plates with some assign as oceanic, others continental. And we would implement some tectonic model to make some land appear. Maybe the methods described in the thesis of that answer.

The mass of land that comes out would be refined using the different methods that were proposed in those questions, up to get the fractal coastlines: worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/a/21357/9685

Biomes could be added, mountains, rivers, etc. refined.

Then politics kicks in, and the SW could help the user to define the different countries and place some cities.

Et voilà, you have your map.

the outputs could be a PNG, a GIS, etc. But it offers also the possibility to view the map around within the SW.

Intended users: everyone who's interested in worldbuilding. So WB SE users, but also, who knows, others. GM, Authors, Curious, etc. Not necessarily technically minded people.

The main idea was that there are those very nice questions, and yes, of course one could follow the manual instructions to build one's map. But if one wants to, e.g., implement fratals, one needs a program for it.

Tectonic calculations, fractals refinement, etc. might require some computing resources. Probably nothing a reasonably modern laptop would not be able to handle of course, but it nevertheless makes more sense to have a desktop app.

In any case, it prevents to have calculations on the server-side.

Do tell me what you think of that description. If you think that's about right, we should copy-paste it into a google or so doc

If we're doing cities, we could have some pre made types like human, elvish, dwarven, all those classics and feed a Markov chain name generator to generate some names.

@ArtOfCode Sure :)

@bilbo_pingouin Sounds like the SE queries. I just force other people to do it :)

@bilbo_pingouin lol missed a few did we?!

I think we may have a huge leg up on the world generation part. I found this project: experilous.com/1/store/offer/worldbuilder (may have a weird certificate authentication thing. Just hit cancel a few times. The page should come up.)

The simulation code is offered under the Apache 2.0 license so we should be able to use it for whatever we want.

This may be really helpful too: experilous.com/1/blog/post/procedural-planet-generation

Or this: experilous.com/1/planet-generator/2014-09-28/…

Web Demo: experilous.com/1/planet-generator/2015-04-07/version-2

I'm a little late but this page might be really helpful for creating terrain: vterrain.org/Elevation/Artificial

You might also want to look here to see what they did to generate terrain on their planets.

@Phantom!!!!

@Phantom You need to come back... We're not done with you. None of us got the chance to actually give you a taste of what we wanted!

@Zizouz212 I had to do some work. Am back now.

@Zizouz212 I've done some work on real time procedural planets and that seems to do a lot of the same things that you want to do.

@Phantom Yes.

That's what most of the discussion has been about for the last day. However, in addition to the generation of geology and climate, I think we want to include the placement (or perhaps later, the simulation) of countries, cities, towns and cultures.

Hi, all. Just got back from another college visit.

Has it been decided how much of the algorithms we're creating from scratch and how much we're basing off of already-existing works? If we use fractional Brownian motion for coastlines/terrains, it would probably be good to work off this paper, and it should be easy to implement.

@Green I've heard of procedural cities being done. One idea for doing that might be to look at what dwarf fortress did for their world creation code. I've also seen plate tectonics simulations done for the purpose of creating continents but I don't remember where I found it.

@HDE226868 Not really. It's still a work in the planning

@Phantom The experilious.com links from earlier has info about tectonics simulation.

@HDE226868 Ooh, which one?

@Phantom Hi, good to see you.

@Zizouz212 Franklin & Marshall. Not a top pick, but a good safety-ish school.

I've seen the procedure cities too but it took the better part of a year or two to get something interesting.

@HDE226868 Ah, never heard of that.

@Phantom This is the most advanced city generator I've ever seen.

@HDE226868 Yes, Phantom is a really Phantom

introversion.co.uk/subversion

@HDE226868 I've seen ridged noise combined with cell noise to create mountains while fractal Brownian motionvusually seems good for plains and rolling hills.

If you look abalone the examples for l ibnoise they have a series of noise functions that have been combined to generate a decent looking planet texture.

I assume you're on the team?

@HDE226868 @ArtOfCode Mind telling out 'new guy' what's happening, and what Worldbuilding is about?

@Phantom You've got GitHub right?

@Phantom Okay, so this is a side project that came up in a discussion about Worldbuilding's blog.

Darn it, he's not in the room...

@Zizouz212 Sure.

Oh, now you are

We had also had a series of three questions by one of the mods, TimB, back in this past fall along the lines of Creating a Realistic Worldmap - [Feature].

Wait, have you been to chat before?

I re-continued the series this summer, with his permission, and then Vincent (another mod, and also on this project) built on them, as did Samuel.

Using these questions and putting them together, a person should be able to get a good sense of the techniques needed to create a planet, and place various features on it.

The project that's happening in this room is based around creating a software program to do that, or a web app.

@HDE226868 Is Phantom even still here?

@Zizouz212 Technically, yes, although I don't know if he's actually on the computer watching this unfold.

Weird... It doesn't say he's in the room :/

@Phantom Come out, come out, where you are!!

@Zizouz212 It does, on the side. . . (?)

Um, no. That's bilbo

@Zizouz212 Third gravatar, in the middle.

My screen shows him as being there.

he's a phantom :D

I know!

What is this?

ghost

And the mod pings don't bring him in...

Sorry. On my phone. Need to refresh the screen to see anything new.

@Phantom Ah. That explains it.

@HDE226868 Now I see him...

@Phantom Um, did you go to school and register?

Also. When my phone is asleep I disappear. Apparently.

@Zizouz212 That was what I saw when you posted your image.

@Phantom Don't say that! You're revealing that you're not a Phantom!

Art!

Meet @Phantom. Who really is a Phantom.

@Zizouz212 By the way, the equation I gave yesterday wasn't quite accurate. It's slightly simpler.

@HDE226868 Oh dear...

Is it double the size?

Simpler, Ziz. A bit shorter.

So I see. Catching up, after one hell of a day.

But I still think that if we agree on the view that I wrote, we should start to put it together, as well as all the links

in a shared doc somewhere

Tank you!

Sounds good

google doc or does anyone know better?

Google Doc should be fine.

For discussions, just keep it here.

@Zizouz212 On Tuesday.

But anything in that document should ideally be final or canonical.

@Phantom On Tuesday? It's Grade 9 day that day. School technically starts Wednesday for us

@bilbo_pingouin That sounds good.

@Zizouz212 Last Tuesday.

@Zizouz212 that's why I keep asking if people agree with what I wrote earlier ;)

Thursday's the blog day, so Tuesday sounds okay as the software day, if we keep it as a full-day any-time-you-can thing.

@Phantom Ah, damn it. I found on like, yesterday...

@Phantom What happened on Registration day? Apparently, there was more happening then usual

CV question I need to remind myself about later (possibly): stats.stackexchange.com/questions/142182/…. Pay no attention to the message inside the chat room.

@Zizouz212 I didn't see anything unusual.

@Phantom Apparently there was student photos and everything. I still haven't done anything, not even gotten the registration form...

@Zizouz212 they did take student photos. But that took only a minute.

Damn, Thornlea becomes stupider by the day. Photos on registration day?

@They printed the student cards out too.

On paper... Like always?

No. It went on a card right away.

Wow

I hate this school now

Are they legit cards?

I made a google doc... copy-pasting some of the info from today

docs.google.com/document/d/…

@ArtOfCode Which is a better pun? To Kill [licensing]... what? or Clean up your [licensing] practices!

anyone can comment, I, alone can edit...

I don't know if we want anyone to be able to edit

@bilbo_pingouin Let anyone edit, we can rollback revisions :)

@Zizouz212 done

@Zizouz212 They are legit cards.

Stupidness...

@Zizouz212 Okay, I accepted the GitHub invitation, thanks. I also found out that I now do know how the calculate the expression I gave earlier. I just have to translate it to Python, which shouldn't be too bad.

Alright. :)