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12:51 AM
Stop using the rhetoric of SE is not a free speech platform to suppress the posting rights of others is
There are many legitimate valuable posts closed, downvoted and deleted every day on these SE sites. Not recognizing the problem is complicit of the supremacists
What question is good, what question is bad? Is that something you can decide and enforce on others?
Do you believe holding moderation position give you the ultimate power to decide the fates of others' posts?
I have never heard of recognition and reflection on mistreatments of countless posts every day, but only of SE no free speech. Do you think it is normal?
I do not have mental problem. Stop using that to invalidate my point
These sites are not just yours. NO one can tell others to leave or stay
How about spending some time to make the sites more welcoming?
more constructive, more inclusive, and more rules against attacks?
If you have time to think of ideas to persuade others to leave?
Don't mind me repeating: I didn't want to talk about this here either.
Why was I suspended for 48 hours with a comment claiming things that I didn't do?
@terdon How did my words imply moderators "don't need to work for a living"? You keep manipulate what I meant.
In paraphrase, what I said was a response to moderators doing unpaid work: whoever have time to moderate don't need to get paid, from moderation
if they have to worry about the next meal or where to live the next day, they won't consider to moderate.
They moderate for other reasons.
In some cases, their own personal interests in power and reputation, more than helping other users in the community
 
1:57 AM
Ok
 
2:40 AM
@StackExchangeforAll I was just going to leave all of this, but on this point I do want to be clear that this is not about "having a mental problem" or invalidating your experiences, but talking to someone who is trained to help people respond to what happens around them in a productive and healthy way, including when the things that happened are unfair or mistreatment or bullying. Nobody here is that person and you wouldn't want that, but they do exist and they deal with all sorts of people
But in any case all the best, Tim, and I hope it was worth it.
 
 
3 hours later…
5:57 AM
@MichaelHomer So if I understand correctly from the above, you've stopped being active on SE sites?
 
 
1 hour later…
7:00 AM
@FaheemMitha I was only ever active on U+L and it became increasingly unpleasant, so I ultimately stopped several months back
 
@MichaelHomer I see. Unpleasant how, if you don't mind me asking?
 
Too many abrasive interactions that posting answers seemed to invite
 
@MichaelHomer I see. Sorry to hear that it was an unpleasant experience.
Have you considered joining one of the new sites that are planned, if and when they are up and running?
 
Also subsequent events across the network revealed a nasty undercurrent through the entire overall userbase, while simultaneously painting the company I never liked even worse, so any sort of impulse to re-engage fell off as well
@FaheemMitha I do not think that a site organised by the people who left following those events and see Wikipedia as a constructive community model to follow is going to be a more pleasant environment
 
@MichaelHomer I'm not aware of any Wikipedia connection, even a notional one, but perhaps I missed something.
 
7:12 AM
In fairness I hadn't been answering a lot for a long time, so trailing off to zero wasn't a big difference anyway
 
@MichaelHomer I haven't been active on U&L for a long time myself, but that had nothing to do with the SE site per se. And I've never been very active on SE.
 
@FaheemMitha It was one of the (many) suggestions of a community to emulate that I saw put forward, so it was probably set aside or ignored
 
I think a community-run site is likely to be a more stable one, but as always time will tell.
There is certainly need for a site like SE, and SE has collected together a critical mass of like-minded people, if nothing else, so I'm hopeful something will come of it.
Not necesasrily a slavish imitation, but something similar.
 
@FaheemMitha It was fine most of the time, it just ultimately wasn't worth it for me to have to engage with the occasions when it isn't
Which seemed to be becoming more common, though that could be my imagination
 
Debian, for example, has its share of disagreements, but it's been around since 1993, is very stable as organizations go, and would probably be very hard to kill now. Short of some major international legal changes involving free software, or global catastrophe.
@MichaelHomer I understand. In any case, working hard for no monetary reward is a high bar to sustain.
 
7:19 AM
@FaheemMitha That part I don't mind (apart from the obvious SO, Inc element), it was the part after doing the work that was a problem
 
@MichaelHomer I actually never had an issue with trolls. But perhaps I wasn't active enough.
Or maybe I just used to answer really obscure questions. Much of the activity on this site is shell-based, and what I know about shells could be written on a page, with space left over.
 
@FaheemMitha I don't think actual trolls were much of an issue
 
@MichaelHomer Oh. Just general argumentation?
 
Maybe they are, it'd be a miracle if they're not, but I don't think I really encountered them
@FaheemMitha That's definitely a big component, yeah
 
I don't recall having significant discussion when I posted answers. Mostly they were just ignored. Sometimes upvoted. Sometimes accepted.
 
7:27 AM
The moderators on this site do a good job of dealing with the things within their powers, but there's no path to preemptive rewiring of the obnoxious users that turn up
 
@MichaelHomer Agreed.
Some people can act really entitled, for no apparent reason.
 
@FaheemMitha Probably the best available outcome, all things considered. Would that we could all master that skill
 
@MichaelHomer Being ignored, you mean? Sometimes I would like a little discussion.
 
@FaheemMitha If you branch out into more answers you'll strike gold eventually, I'm sure
 
 
1 hour later…
9:03 AM
@StackExchangeforAll You didn't imply it. You said it very clearly:
Jan 14 at 16:21, by StackExchange for All
People have time to moderate generally don't have to worry about putting lunch on the table. They get power and reputations in return. They don't need to get paid.
And I'm really tired of this. As I told you it has been years, and I no longer have the patience. So I will tell you again: don't use words like "supremacists". It is offensive. And stop accusing everyone around you. If you really believe we are so awful, just leave, but this chat is not the place for constantly complaining about and attacking the users and moderators of this site.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:38 AM
@terdon You said it very clearly that I never appreciated you, when you did something correct. I did realize it several times, and I did wrote thank you.
Nonetheless, it is far from enough. The are far more discrminations and attacks than you have handled.
I never say moderator work is not contribution. What I pointed out is something that very few dare to say: the corruption among moderators
Discrimination from supremacists can be based on a lot of things, race, gender, experiences, language, whatever not fit into the "standard" of their group
 
@StackExchangeforAll I just kicked you out of chat for a minute. Nothing else seems to be registering, but I will try once more: do not call people supremacists. This is not negotiable.
 
How did my comment mean moderators don't need to work?
How did my commet wrote moderators don't need to work?
Do I have problem of using English, or do you have tendency to change what others wrote?
 
hello people, any ideas on how to fix this:
Found CMake: /usr/bin/cmake (3.13.4)
Run-time dependency goa-1.0 found: NO (tried pkgconfig and cmake)
Run-time dependency json-glib-1.0 found: NO (tried pkgconfig and cmake)
i've installed those packages, AFAIK, but still no luck
 
@StackExchangeforAll What did you think it meant? You said that "people [who] have time to moderate, don't need to worry about putting lunch on the table. [...] They don't need to get paid". What did you think you were saying? That is very clearly and explicitly stating that moderators don't need to work.
@santimirandarp Please ask a question on the main site where you can give some context. Tell us your operating system and version, explain what you are trying to do and how you installed what packages.
 
What did you mean by my comment wrote clearly that "moderators don't need to work for a living?"
 
11:51 AM
@StackExchangeforAll Exactly what I said. I quoted your words verbatim, so why are you trying to claim you didn't say it?
 
@terdon okey, will do...sometimes I'm not sure if it's a question for the site, sorry.
 
@santimirandarp No need to apologize! It's just easier to have it on the site where all the context can be given.
 
I said the desire of moderators for power and reputation and other benefits.
 
@StackExchangeforAll You said that those who have time to moderate, don't need to get paid.
 
I also said several times the corruptions among moderators.
 
11:52 AM
They don't need to worry about putting food on the table.
 
Do you? If you have to, do you have time to moderate?
 
@StackExchangeforAll Not when my time is wasted by this sort of thing, no.
 
Your level of worrying and my level of worrying don't seem match
 
OK.
 
I really want to ask how "moderators are corrupt", because I'm not getting paid by anyone to do anything differently here. Dare I ask for details? Because I don't appreciate being called corrupt.
 
11:54 AM
@Jeff
I have listed so many times the details.. WHy pretending I haven't
 
Well, perhaps you're using a word that means something different to me than it does to you, like "supremacist", so we're not communicating clearly. I really hesitate to ask for some examples or details. If you'd rather not discuss it, then let's please stop discussing it
 
@jeff I have listed details. I do not rather not discuss it. You are manipulating the facts. You have been holding biases for long, I don't see it is possible that you are willing to change.
 
@santimirandarp Thanks. I left you a comment.
@StackExchangeforAll Great. Then please stop discussing it. If we are so corrupt and unwilling to change, discussing it is only wasting your time.
 
That "word" is accurate to describe the people that I mentioend
 
12:01 PM
You're still discussing...
 
It is that you choose to not recognize others facing it
Because you are considered one of their kind, you never have to face it.
A and B are in the same group, C isn't. A bully C. C keeps complaint. B said where is the bully?
 
@StackExchangeforAll Of course we all have biases. I know from previous Meta questions that you disagree with questions being closed, so is that what you think I'm corrupt & biased about? Because I answered that question on Meta, such as unix.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4567/… and others.
 
It is not a matter of disagreement. It is the corruption and desire of achieving power to make one's own standard universal and to protect the "buddies" in the same ideology group
 
@StackExchangeforAll So, ask yourself this. If all this is true, and we're evil and corrupt, why are you still here?
 
So is this site yours?
 
12:08 PM
@StackExchangeforAll You seem to think so.
I ask again, if this is so bad, why do you stay?
 
So how can you ask me to leave?
If one never fight, will change happen?
 
@StackExchangeforAll I don't think I did. I asked you why you stay.
 
I stay or leave is not your business
When you ask me these questions, you are showing who you really are
 
Again that word corruption! What does that mean to you, Tim? I'm not being influenced by anyone on here! And what buddies do you think I'm protecting? What benefit am I bestowing on whom? What "standard" am I enforcing that is my own and not the site's?
 
@StackExchangeforAll Right.
 
12:12 PM
I vote, I edit, I clear flags. I really do not see what you see, so I'm trying to bridge the gap.
 
enjoy living in your own bubbles.
 
@StackExchangeforAll you're not interested in helping move this conversation forward?
(Tim just left chat)
sigh
 
1:11 PM
Sorry for jumping in here, but does anyone know / remember / has heard of the story of the 'oops the PFY deleted /, we have to recreate a binary or two from hand by retyping them' ?
I read it a while ago, and having recently dd'd my own root LV accidentally, wanted to read it again
searches have been the opposite of fruitful
Aha! Found it
it was from alt.folklore.computers
Thanks folks, I'll see myself out :)
 
good old rubber duck debugging :)
 
Precisely :)
If anyone is curious as to just how useless searching was initially, I leave only two exhibits one and two -- possibly NSFW / NSWDT (While Drinking Tea, as in if you value your keyboard/monitor)
I think Google has made some, um, changes recently
 
 
3 hours later…
4:52 PM
If anyone has a list/chart of recent Ubuntu versions and their corresponding version of systemd, I am interested (for an Answer I'm trying to write).
 
@JeffSchaller Try distrowatch.
 
5:20 PM
@Isaac thanks for the pointer! My first few searches just end in a chart that indicates "systemd or not", but not versions. I'll keep looking.
finally closer -- distrowatch.com/…
 
Version 19.10 19.04 18.10 18.04-LTS 17.10 17.04 16.10 16.04-LTS 15.10 15.04 14.10 14.04-LTS 13.10 13.04 12.10 12.04-LTS
systemd 244 242 240 239 237 234 232 231 229 225 219 208 204 204 198 --
 
@Isaac thank you! I hadn't scrolled down far enough! I stopped at the first chart :|
 
The table of installed software versions is on the first page of each distribution. Just not at the top. Find it lower in the page
@JeffSchaller Excellent.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:34 PM
@terdon I can't defend the rest of any of that, but I really think you're misreading that comment as stating moderators don't need to work. He's literally talking about worry (as in, food precarity, in line with his general interests) and that people who can spend time on other things aren't needing to dedicate all of their time to survival, and so being paid to moderate is not required because those needs are already met and that role is a hobby (and then he insinuates other motivations)
Tim, I can only see your messages in the transcript now so I can't reply directly, but it really looks like you're trying to get kicked out for good. Eventually someone will give you what you want
I couldn't blame them at all and your actions make it seem like it would satisfy everybody. It's like trying to get someone to break up with you because you can't bring yourself to do it directly
 
8:08 PM
@MichaelHomer I can't resist sharing this tidbit, because it's so rare that I know something about the system that's not apparent to someone else. Since Tim has been in the room "recently", you should be able to address him via @__StackExchangeforAll -- here I inserted to underscores to prevent an indirect mention.
(alternatively, the transcript messages should each have drop-downs with permalinks (permalinks are to the transcript, nevermind) and/or "reply to this message" links)
 
8:31 PM
@JeffSchaller I have to open it in a window where I'm not logged in to see the messages
 
@MichaelHomer that's odd; are you blocking users, or is it some client-side javascript issue?
 
8:56 PM
@JeffSchaller Not everybody shows up for me now and I'm ok with that
 
9:26 PM
@terdon I haven't "constantly complaining about and attacking the users and moderators of this site" for a long time.
And if I remember correctly, I didn't bring the word "supremacist" to this chat. I followed someone who brought it here.
This comment claimed something I didn't do: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/26?m=53240920#53240920. If I remember correctly, I and other users have multiple similar experiences with this kind of moderation.
Regarding your choice of words, I do not actively attack others. I defend myself after constantly being attacked.
My tolerance is not less than any of yours, but it is not unlimited.
I have seen you make up lies to attack other users and now me.
 
9:58 PM
@StackExchangeforAll Please stop.
 
@StackExchangeforAll Enough.
 
10:38 PM
@StackExchangeforAll Yes, please!!! stop!.
 
11:14 PM
So, the OpenBSD base system has an auto-mounter called amd(8) (similar to what's found on Solaris). I've used in the past, but it hasn't really been useful to me until now, so I started using it again, to mount things like /home and /usr/local and other non-base system directories from central file servers.
I noticed that some mount options that I asked for (specifically "wxallowed" for /usr/local) were not honored on the NFS mounts, so I patched it in.
We'll see if my very naive patch is accepted.
The amd(8) auto-mounter implements an NFSv2 server, and there's talk about getting rid of those bits.
I'm just hoping that those bits gets replaced by NFSv3... or I'll have to go back to using persistent NFS mounts.
 

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