/dev/chat - 2020-01-14

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3:11 AM

@JeffSchaller ok I did try a number options I'll write it up as a question, but really what I am trying to decide is whether here or the ubuntu site is more appropriate, see if you set up a hotspot on a Ubuntu LTS 18.04 OS, the broadcast IP address opens up only one port of the first 1000, but it is "filtered" which I have encountered when performing an nmap for a proxy server that's non local, but other than that I literally have no clue what "filtered" means other than what im guessing, which

is it only accepts tcp with a unique header or something? I really am talking out of my $#%^ here I do not know what Im saying

but I have the advantage of it being locally hosted at least so I should probably look at tcpdump output as well

3:37 AM

@JeffSchaller yeah thanks those two will keep me busy I haven't done much with iptables so I'm thinking ill just give the man for that a read before anything else

4:14 AM

sorry for this question guys...

learned to install packages using apt install, or downloading .deb files, but can't find any of those for vanilla nodejs

how should this programs be installed?

there's only one github webpage but the file extension is strange

4:49 AM

You could try making a VM of another operating system that is associated with whatever the file extension is? This is one of my favourite sites that might be helpful file-extensions.org

@santimirandarp Did you try apt install nodejs?

5:37 AM

@MichaelHomer yes, its on the list, but it is 3 main versions outdated

@Adam ill take a look right now...

its tar.gz but the problem is I don't know how trusty is to download files like that

instead of using a package manager...

6:21 AM

I've found it can be done with a tool called ubuntu make

seems quite a nice thing

yeah I have extracted from that type of file before again it might be naïve of me to think this way but I trial everything on a virtual of the same operating system and if it performs reliably there I install on the physical but again, not an expert so for all I know the VM I treat like a tramp is silently filling the host with all kinds of crap and it will someday teach me a horrible lesson

7:03 AM

@santimirandarp Do you desperately need the features in the newer version?

@santimirandarp It's often possible to adapt the packaging for newer versions. Debian packages are often outdated, unfortunately.

Experimental on Debian shows as 12.13.1~dfsg-1. How outdated is that?

Oh, I see even that is out of date. The current release series is 13.

7:48 AM

I was pleasantly surprised yesterday that on debian testing my git is 2.24 from November

8:11 AM

@AndrasDeak Git stays reasonably current on Debian because a lot of the developers use it. These days, maybe all of them.

If you want something that is bleeding-edge, it's probably available on experimental or unstable.

Much of Debian's packaging is driven by its developer community. That has always been the case.

8:31 AM

And NodeJS packaging is really difficult so it tends not to happen...

8:47 AM

@StephenKitt It is?

The rules file actually doesn't look too bad. 253 lines, including comments. I've seen worse. Plus a bunch of patches. Though I suspect working with it would require a good idea of what is going on.

1 hour later…

9:57 AM

@FaheemMitha individual NPM packages are straightforward, but there are thousands of them to package

@StephenKitt I thought nodejs was one package.

@FaheemMitha at the root of a large ecosystem...

@StephenKitt Oh. And they all need to be updated simultaneously?

@FaheemMitha no but the nodejs package can’t necessarily be upgraded on its own, IIRC

@StephenKitt Ok.

10:57 AM

@FaheemMitha in fact i just need >10 but thats the version installed from apt

i went through umake

11:12 AM

@santimirandarp What is the version installed from apt? And what is your OS/distribution?

2 hours later…

StackExchange for All

1:03 PM

@StephenKitt Have you used node.js? For writing web API with Express?

What framework/library/language do you think or hear about that are the best for building web applications and web API on server side and client side?

Good morning, everyone!

I just want to be a bot.

StackExchange for All

1:30 PM

I am learning to write some server side web app and web API in ASP.NET Core using CLI

So far I have managed to make them running

Basically CRUD operations on key value records. I create them on top of the default templates, which simplify the development

I tried to learn about Java frameworks (mostly Java EE, not yet Spring) and Python frameworks (Django / Flask) in the past, but I didn't have enough time to go through.

Ha! Managed to get the OpenBSD amd auto-mounter to serve the 3rd-party packages I've installed on each of my private machines from a central location, and my home directory. That will make reinstalling the system on any particular machine so much simpler!

But the mount maps are a bit of a mount-full. Here's the map for `/usr/local`:

/defaults       sublink:=${key}
*               host==eeyore;type:=link;fs:=/vol/local/${host}; \
                host!=eeyore;type:=nfs;rhost:=eeyore;rfs:=/vol/local/${host};\
                opts:=rw,intr,soft,nosuid,nodevs,wxallowed;

1:53 PM

@Kusalananda hah, I see we share a naming scheme (I have hosts named heffalump, eeyore etc.)

@StackExchangeforAll no, just for packaging a few tools (not written by me)

@StackExchangeforAll when I did web work, I used a home-grown framework (20 years ago) then Struts then Spring MVC

I quite like Django, it gets the basics right quickly

2:40 PM

@StephenKitt So you are a fan of the denizens of the Hundred Acre Wood?

@FaheemMitha yes!

I was reading an article that Christopher Robin wasn't so happy about being Christopher Robin. In his later years he wrote a memoir.

Not that that has much to do with anything.

@FaheemMitha right, he wasn’t happy about it at all.

2:54 PM

@StephenKitt Yeah, but I only have an Eeyore and a Pooh, and Pooh because I didn't have imagination for anything else. Eeyore because Unix is very much like him.

Another machine is just called "box". So I'm not consistent.

StackExchange for All

I am a bot beep boop

What is microservice? How can I make a web service into a microservice?

@StackExchangeforAll Make it smaller? :-)

I was going to say, put the web server in the microwave

@JeffSchaller popcorn!

that’s how microkernels are made

@StephenKitt that's what Pop!_OS must use

3:08 PM

@JeffSchaller I’m off to design a 5.25” popcorn machine — it would act as your CPU heatsink, so when your CPU gets hot enough you get popcorn flowing out of your PC

StackExchange for All

I am still a bot

@Kusalananda How is Unix like Eeyore? Just wondering.

@FaheemMitha fairly grumpy, but trustworthy, and with a very weird sense of humour

@StephenKitt I'm not seeing the grumpy bit.

@FaheemMitha Pessimistic in general. For example, things succeeds and return 0. But they can fail in many more different ways.

I'm currently in a meeting. I'll get back later.

3:18 PM

@Kusalananda Hmm. Back in the day, it was actually considered more lazy and stupid behavior, than anything else. Now, it's the norm. Thus doth progress the world. Is Eeyore lazy and stupid?

@FaheemMitha no, not lazy or stupid

@StephenKitt Eeyore, you mean?

@FaheemMitha you asked “Is Eeyore lazy and stupid?”, I answered “no, not lazy or stupid”.

@StephenKitt Ok. I wasn't sure which bit you were responding to.

@StephenKitt what is the special meaning of exit status 256 in the shell? Do you know?

$ perl -e 'exit(1)' && echo yeah
$ perl -e 'exit(257)' && echo yeah
$ perl -e 'exit(256)' && echo yeah
yeah

3:24 PM

@terdon exit codes are stored in 8 bits, so exit(256) is equivalent to exit(0)

@terdon 256 == 0

From man 2 exit on Linux:

> The value status & 0377 is returned to the parent process as the process's exit status

oh

damn

should have known that

OpenBSD's _exit(2) says "only the lower 8 bits of status are passed on to the parent"

the Linux version seems unnecessarily obscure

3:28 PM

It seems somone called Shog is leaving SE, and that's apparently big news.

Was he fired or did he quit? Not that it really matters. Just idle curiosity.

@FaheemMitha Do you really not know who Shog is?

Sorry, that sounds like an accusation.

@terdon Not really, no. Should I?

I don't mean it as one, I'm just really surprised.

Shog was the most active, longest serving and most visible (by several orders of magnitude) of the community managers. He's written a significant chunk of all posts on main meta, for instance.

And he was fired. Apparently with no warning.

@terdon Not everyone is involved with SE. I just come here to read questions and answers. And ramble on chat, occasionally.

@terdon Ah, fired. Ok.

@FaheemMitha Indeed. But Shog is so visible and oft mentioned that I would expect anyone who's been here as long as you have to know of him.

3:31 PM

@terdon I've heard the name. I think I may have seen the occasional post. Otherwise, no, not really.

I'm just surprised that you don't, I didn't mean to imply you should.

This dude:

Shog9, Colorado, United States

388k 175 1191 1731

discussion feature-request status-completed support bug review status-declined

Everyone has a limited amount of attention to spread around.

@terdon Yes, I see.

I'm not really that interested in SE. I mean, I'm glad something that something like it exists, and it's been personally very useful to me. But it seems that some people really get into it, unlike me.

Him and Robert :-(

@StephenKitt Robert?

@FaheemMitha Robert Cartaino, another CM, the main driver behind Area51 and a big supporter on new SEs

also fired

794

Q: Thank you, Shog9

@Shog9, a longtime Community Manager here at Stack Exchange, has just Tweeted that he is no longer working at Stack Overflow: @shog9: Well... I suddenly find myself in need of work. If anyone's hiring: C++, JavaScript, C#, SQL + solid background in social software, community-driven developm...

discussion featured stack-exchange-team thanks community-managers

312

Q: Thank you, Robert Cartaino

The title says it all. Thank You, Robert Cartaino, for everything you did for SE and the community. I don't post much on MSE, but have been a mod for about eight years. There is a lot that can go on behind the scenes, work that the CMs do to help out the site moderators. That is one of the thin...

discussion featured thanks

3:36 PM

@StephenKitt Oh. So this all just happened?

@FaheemMitha yup

I see. Thank you for the information.

last night

Feels like the SE ship is stern up, but with propellers in the water, and someone turned the engines on full

Does anyone know why these firings happens? Or informed speculation, even?

@StephenKitt I'm not really familiar with nautical idioms, but I take it that's not good?

3:39 PM

@FaheemMitha imagine a boat pointing straight down into the water, and using its engines to move in the direction it’s pointing ;-)

@StephenKitt Interesting image. But the propellers would have to be in an unusual placement to get any traction.

@FaheemMitha exactly, that’s why I mentioned that

twitter.com/pwnallthethings/status/1217069525222424576

> After today, your Windows 7 machine will only get updates from whichever 14 year old runs the malware group your machine is enrolled into.

For all those brave souls out there that still run Windows.

4:05 PM

crazy coincidences. On my drive in today, I saw a bucket of popcorn that someone had dumped by the side of the road. Then I log in here and - pop! - here's popcorn!

I don't know what the simultaneous firings of these people means for SE, but I assume it means nothing good?

StackExchange for All

For years, I have been persecuted by corrupt moderators on SO, superuser, CS, SOftware Engineering. I think it might be news worthy

There are countless users who have similar experiences. That also is news worthy

> We’re seeking to align the company so that it can continue growing in 2020 and we continue to be committed in investing in the community and ensuring that it has a seat at the table as we keep moving forward. These changes are a part of that process. -- Juan M

It does seem to me like there might be fewer CM's, and so longer response times for CM requests (account merges, escalations, etc)

@JeffSchaller Is that corporate-speak for more work to be done by unpaid volunteers?

StackExchange for All

4:21 PM

People have time to moderate generally don't have to worry about putting lunch on the table. They get power and reputations in return. They don't need to get paid.

Also "networking"

So when they leave their posts, some will post on meta to remember them

TBF we really aren't the community anymore. Meta/power users are a very small fraction of the user base and the community is now the horde of people asking for homework help. This is the meat SE is going after as they are generating the add revenue. That's the community they are building, unfortunately. — NathanOliver 21 hours ago

StackExchange for All

Not really true. Self learning questions are not homework questions. Even homework questions are not to be discrimiated on

Sorry. I am a bot again. Beep boop.

@StackExchangeforAll That's a really bad imitation of a bot.

Yeah, I'm putting you on ignore, @StackExchangeforAll . Sorry, but I really don't feel like sitting here and taking your insults anymore.

@StackExchangeforAll Read some Trump tweets to see what the real thing looks like.

4:26 PM

@JeffSchaller There's no "might" about it. There are two fewer CMs.

And Shog basically counts as 10 CMs anyway.

@terdon I forget, what's the current status of mods on U&L? Are you still active? Is anyone else?

We're all here, for the moment, yes.

Slm, Kusalananda, Jeff, Michael and I.

@terdon Ok.

StackExchange for All

4:42 PM

I am not familiar with the two CMs in question. They are out of touch to users like me. I have strongly experienced corruption among some moderators.

I speak something that no one wants to hear. I understand that.

@StackExchangeforAll apparently not, because you keep repeating it — and whether people here want to hear it or not, there’s no one here who can do anything about it.

what Stephen said; either raise a ticket or stop complaining or leave.

Complaining about other communities here is not only not useful, it helps degrade the atmosphere here too.

StackExchange for All

Apology. I have no place to go ...

I avoid doing that

4 hours later…

9:02 PM

Welp, wayland just started crashing on sight after a reboot. I haven't even updated since the last reboot...

at least switching back to Xorg fixed it it seems, and this solves my alt+ctrl+arrow problem :)

3 hours later…

11:55 PM

@FaheemMitha (and anyone else who might be interested), we've started our private beta *nix community on TopAnswers — anyone who'd like access, please ping me in this TopAnswers chat room.

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