/dev/chat

4:36 AM

@Kusalananda Am debugging ksh -xv script.sh >output.log 2>&1 on both solaris machine and Linux machine... and comparing the debug log... I found this approach more approaching....

Am able to find errors in Linux machine(new box) based on comparison with debug log in solaris machine(working box)

Fabby

11:40 AM

@JeffSchaller rolled back to revision 1 and then edited your edits back in.

Tim

11:55 AM

In all these years, I have been helped by a lot of nice users on SO and Unix.SE. That is the memory that I treasured the most.

Fabby

@Tim Someone being rude to you?

You going to die???

;-) :P

Tim

When I started to be bullied a few years ago, I ignored most of them, because they couldn't do any harm to me effectively.

Fabby

Sticks and stones etc... Been there too.

Tim

I know at least some of them did so because I rarely accepted their replies, or ignore their request to accept an answer. They felt furious. I understood why they felt so very well. but I couldn't do so.

I know some of them were angry because I fell into the same trap some times, and they seemed to have expectation on me, which I didn't think is realistic.

Jeff Schaller

@Fabby ahhh - thanks, Fabby! Looks like we were both trying to help at the same time

Fabby

11:59 AM

Yeah, the read answer is the obvious one!

@Tim Everyone is different with different expectations.

I share my upvotes freely as they're all make-belief anyway,

Tim

When I started to worry about the malicious behaviors, was when the SE sites started to use bots to remove posts with sufficiently downvotes and closevotes.

Fabby

but getting upvotes makes me happy and getting downvotes still makes me sad even after.. Hah! 4 years!!!

Tim

I started to be unable to find my past questions and my communications with others, because of the automatic removal of my posts

Fabby

And it still bums me out!

@Tim yeah...

Tim

I have passed the stage of caring about reputations well before the very beginning of joining SO and SE sites.

Fabby

12:02 PM

XDon't forget SO is a commercial company: they're doing it for the $$$4

Tim

Please let me continue.

I have never been fond of some moderators either, who in my views proved them nothing but enjoying utilizing their powers to their extremes and value the rules and policies much more than fairness.

Rui F Ribeiro

@Fabby Bah, after all found a small bug in Debian concerning init packages and openvas ....bah.

Fabby

@RuiFRibeiro :D RuiFDebugger!

Rui F Ribeiro

@Tim after a certain threshold, a guy does not care about points anymore....

Tim

I have remembered clearly some interactions to show what I said above, and could link them if they have not be removed by our moderators. I am contemplating to share them if I could find them, but at the same time, I don't think I have enough power and time and energy to confront these people. Even if I win (which is unlikely), what does that mean to me in reality. I don't even enjoy having power on SE sites, and do I in real life?

Rui F Ribeiro

12:12 PM

@Tim Is it possible you are taking this too seriously?

Tim

Let me continue. Thanks.

I have never cared about reputations, not just after reaching certain reputations. I value freedom of speech the most instead.

Rui F Ribeiro

@Fabby LOL....Lunch!!!

Tim

I value mutual respect and humanity.

If I in some way care my reputations, that is only because of the bots removing my posts and making them inaccessible, opposite to the freedom of speech.

Jeff Schaller

Is this a reaction to being suspended? (I just clicked on your profile and found out)

Tim

that is only because of humans having the tendency of following the opinions of the majority.

Let me continue. Thanks.

If you really want to know some details, I can share with you. I am not ashamed of what I did.

If I did something, that happened only very long ago, out of my memory.

I could only tell the most recent action to me was retaliation.

I have long been considering that SE sites were going down the hostile direction. But Unix.SE had been an exception. But I was very disappointed today, though I still think SO is the worst.

On SO sites, I started to be treated unfairly by the moderators since a few years ago. I repeated to repeal against the unfair treatment. Most of them failed, but I won one just three months ago after long communication (the communication channel with moderators and SE customer service is not very accessible). a

I didn't won respect, however, but greater hatred.... More than one month ago, I cast some of my first downvotes on posts of some moderators, and without surprise, they quickly knew where the votes were from, and took action on me, which led to the current state on mine on SO.

That happened two months ago,

sai sasanka

12:35 PM

@Fabby Deleted them!

Tim

Similar things happened to me on Unix SE site, I haven't downvoted any moderators posts, but I have not communicated with the moderators well since a long time ago. They seemed to take action on me retrospectively into a long time ago, and ignored the bullying towards me in the long past.

Tim

12:52 PM

To conclude, I am not considering anything bad currently. I just took this chance to make some of many things somewhat publicly (in chat room, that is what I mean by somewhat publicly) without saying things too explicitly. In reality, I don't have any chance to learn from experienced and kind people as I did on SE sites. I still consider most of my experiences here are wonderful

sebasth

@Tim SE sites are not by definition unmoderated forums; content can removed for not being useful. There is nothing preventing you from publishing any (removed or not) content elsewhere, such as on your own blogs etc., if you want to. Content posted on SE sites is licensed under cc-by-sa 3.0 (unless otherwise stated).

Tim

I dislike some human nature, but what can I do? If I can't do with that, just live with it.

ignore it.

or if I can't, sometimes, I will still say I disagree with it. I am still me.

Jeff Schaller

1:28 PM

@Tim I don't know if you meant bots like "sock puppet voting ring" or Stack Exchange's system of deleting posts, so I'll point to this FAQ article (I've bookmarked the main FAQ because I go back to it so often) -- meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5221/…

Tim

1:40 PM

@sebasth Somehow related. I don't want some of valuable communications to be removed by the moderators or bots. A while ago, I have voiced my disagreement of moving comments to chats by terdon, citing that I agreed with what zwol' wrote on his profile. I have recently voiced my disagreement of removal of my comments by some moderator. Now if I want to keep something not removable by the moderator, I'd best to edit my post, instead of responding in comments.

Somehow related, I have more disagreements with the moderators. In remote past, I sometimes ignored the frequent request to accept an answer by some moderator (who then happened to eagerly want to expand his reputations as a new user)

Stephen Kitt

@Tim to be honest I do think you resort to comments far too much (and of course I tend to answer them, which doesn’t help, so I’m at fault here too). I agree with the SE position that comments should be used to clarify a question or answer, and that the correct response to a comment is to edit the question or answer. Any other comment is either chat material, or another question which should be asked separately.

Tim

@StephenKitt As I mentioned before, you have an advantage of understanding others' questions and replying to the point. So most of time, your reply in comments did help to clarify my confusions. Sometimes I could not find a better way than comments, because if I post them as new posts, they might be barely relevant to this site, and SO is more hostile to concept questions.

One SO moderator kept closing and deleting my SO posts, because he thought every question should have multiple lines of code. while some of my questions which either don't have any code or just mentioned some Linux API functions obviously don't count,

CS.SE site is also very hostile to questions that are basic.

Stephen Kitt

1:58 PM

@Tim yes, that’s something SE, with its focus on problem-solving questions, doesn’t address — it’s not really the right place to learn

Tim

If I could find a better place, I would have posted there.

Rui F Ribeiro

Many of the questions are indeed too vague or too basic, and do not get me started on their wording...

Tim

Basic or not, that is in the eye of beholder

Rui F Ribeiro

@Tim On one hand, I sympathize with you, on the other hand I understand moderators trying to keep a minimum of quality on their sites. Although I do agree in some SE stacks, comments moderation are a form of censorship, that is something not seen here in Unix.

Tim

WHether something has quality or not, that is also in the eye of beholder.

Rui F Ribeiro

2:02 PM

@Tim It is not in the eye of beholder....people feel entitled to dump any mental fart, and if it were that way soon you would be lost in many low-quality questions when trying to find an important answer. You

@Tim you are showing an entitlement people should have to entertain any quality of questions, and that is not a comendable position.

Tim

Don't get me wrong. I am not claiming all of my posts have good quality. But many of them I believe they do.

regardless of what others think.

I don't follow the opinions of majority just because they are majority. not just on my posts.

Rui F Ribeiro

@Tim Unix SE is very friendly...try to go to IPS and moderators actively censor things based on their opinion and political views.

Tim

or just because they are authority (moderators, policies ...)

I am not saying the opposite. But what happened to me is not fair still. It is like comparing something which is sometimes bad to something which is worse.

I value mutual respect, and doesn't have more respect to someone just because they are moderators. In contrast, moderators should have higher standard on themselves.

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