And a murderous psycho like Churchill has some nerve talking about democracy anyway.

@FaheemMitha even there… would you really prefer to be black in Liberia than to be black in the US?

at least the US hasn't had a civil war in living memory

@FaheemMitha I'm French. Churchill saved us from the nazis.

@Gilles dunno. don't know anything about Liberia. And I'm talking about the US across the extent of its history. Not about right now.

@FaheemMitha - most historical figures are conflicted sorts

we were reading about Christopher Columbus for our night time book each night, he's another bad guy if you look at how he behaved.

@slm if you mean murderous thugs, well maybe "most". I don't know.

@slm Of course he was. Major mass murderer.

Apparently he was personally responsible for the death of an amazing number of people.

I actually don't have that much a problem with honest psychos. Where people like Churchill get on my nerves is their pomposity and hypocrisy.

It's difficult to compare these historical figures using todays dispositions

The British are particularly good at that.

Most contemporary characters are conflicted too, I'd wager. Conflicted is a pretty succinct description of the human condition in my book.

@slm Those people have changed little. They still do the same sort of stuff.

@mikeserv Yeah that's a better way to say what I was trying to say

Maybe less so in the East, though, in fairness. Syncretism tends to happen more there than elsewhere.

@Gilles And Patton and MacArthur!

Well, Patton. That guy's idealization of the Roman centurion was the reason I had to wake up at 5AM every day for six years to shave.

Yeah there are 2 guys

They're all human so if you look at each of their decisions in a vacuum you can paint them anyway you want.

I want them painted paisley.

@FaheemMitha It wasn't an euphemism by the way. At least, it wasn't my euphemism. US territories are legally annexed.

@mikeserv Maybe someone should ask the Hawaiians how they would describe it. If there are any left.

Mark Twain actually had a lot to say about it - his first major writing gig was a year-long station reporting there. He was pretty harsh on the idea of American Imperialism.

@FaheemMitha aloha.

@FaheemMitha Of course I'm OK with it! I'd be honored, thanks :)