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7:02 PM
back now
 
ok
 
did you get rid of the unstable packages?
 
# apt-show-versions | grep unstable
libc-dev-bin:amd64/unstable *manually* upgradeable from 2.17-97 to 2.18-4
libc6:amd64/unstable *manually* upgradeable from 2.17-97 to 2.18-4
libc6-dev:amd64/unstable *manually* upgradeable from 2.17-97 to 2.18-4
libc6-i386:amd64/unstable *manually* upgradeable from 2.17-97 to 2.18-4
but then as I started adding packages back these came back too
libffi6:amd64/unstable 3.1~rc1+r3.0.13-12 uptodate
libgraphite2-3:amd64/unstable 1.2.4-2 uptodate
libharfbuzz0b:amd64/unstable 0.9.27-1 uptodate
libllvm3.4:amd64/unstable 1:3.4-2 uptodate
fonts-dejavu-core:all/unstable 2.34-1 uptodate
 
@MERM odd. ok, remove unstable sources for now.
you can just comment them out.
and you can get rid of libc-dev-bin libc6-dev libc6-i386 too i think.
do them one at a time and check what else it tries to remove before hitting ok
 
I've been adding back packages, some work and some have broken dependancies
 
7:07 PM
you are running amd64, right?
@MERM no, don't do that
first get rid of all the unstable packages. then you have a decision to make about libc6
 
ok
I had gotten rid of all of the unstable ones except libc stuff
it gave me a long list of "automatically installed and are no longer required" packages
 
@MERM what about libc-dev-bin libc6-dev libc6-i386
@MERM yes, get rid of those too
apt-get --purge auto-remove
 
yes to the amd64 question
some look important like readline, term-readkey, perl, ssl stuff
 
@MERM when removing which one?
paste the output
 
he following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
libarchive-zip-perl libclass-inspector-perl libclass-methodmaker-perl
libclass-singleton-perl libconvert-binhex-perl libcrypt-ssleay-perl libdate-manip-perl
libdatetime-format-strptime-perl libdatetime-locale-perl libdatetime-perl
libdatetime-timezone-perl libdigest-hmac-perl libemail-address-perl libemail-find-perl
libemail-valid-perl libexporter-lite-perl libfcgi-perl libfile-slurp-perl libfont-afm-perl
libhtml-format-perl libhtml-fromtext-perl libhtml-parser-perl libhtml-tableextract-perl
 
7:12 PM
@MERM removing these packages is safe, i think, because they were never manually chosen to be installed.
 
ok
 
they were installed as dependencies of other packages
 
purging libc stuff, one at a time
 
leave libc6 itself alone
 
ok
 
7:13 PM
in any case, if you try removing that, the system will spit horrible warnings at you
libc6-i386 is probably also ok to remove, but check if it is removing something important first
 
NC01_root 148 # apt-show-versions | grep unstable
libc6:amd64/unstable *manually* upgradeable from 2.17-97 to 2.18-4
libc6-i386:amd64/unstable *manually* upgradeable from 2.17-97 to 2.18-4
ENC01_root 149 #
 
Ok, try taking out libc6-i386
 
The following extra packages will be installed:
libv4l-0 libv4lconvert0
The following packages will be REMOVED:
ia32-libs* lib32asound2* lib32bz2-1.0* lib32gcc1* lib32ncurses5* lib32stdc++6* lib32v4l-0*
lib32z1* libc6-i386*
The following NEW packages will be installed:
libv4lconvert0
The following packages will be upgraded:
libv4l-0
Y/N?
 
that looks harmless, it is all 32 bit stuff
 
ok
ENC01_root 150 # apt-show-versions | grep unstable
libc6:amd64/unstable *manually* upgradeable from 2.17-97 to 2.18-4
ENC01_root 151 #
how do we do a manual upgrade? or is that not what we want to do?
 
7:17 PM
@MERM did you comment out the unstable sources?
 
not yet, doing it now
done
# apt-get --purge auto-remove
E: Invalid operation auto-remove
 
@MERM ok, what does apt-show-versions | grep unstable show now?
 
ENC01_root 157 # apt-show-versions | grep unstable
libc6:amd64/unstable *manually* upgradeable from 2.17-97 to 2.18-4
ENC01_root 158 #
 
@MERM huh. ok, run apt-get update first
 
ENC01_root 159 # apt-show-versions | grep unstable
ENC01_root 160 #
 
7:22 PM
@MERM sorry, apt-get --purge auto-remove
 
# apt-get --purge auto-remove
E: Invalid operation auto-remove
 
@MERM ok. try also apt-show-versions | grep testing
 
apt-get autoremove is suggested
 
@MERM sorry apt-get --purge autoremove
 
ENC01_root 162 # apt-show-versions | grep testing
ENC01_root 163 #
 
7:23 PM
Ok, good.
apt-cache policy libc6
did you run update?
 
yes ran update
# apt-cache policy libc6
libc6:
Installed: 2.17-97
Candidate: 2.17-97
Version table:
*** 2.17-97 0
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
2.13-38+deb7u1 0
500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable/main amd64 Packages
 
@MERM ok, now it is time to live dangerously.
you need to downgrade libc6, otherwise you are likely to have continuing problems.
 
you mean we weren't already :)
 
however, i can't guarantee it will work - it probably will. i looked on the net, and it seems people do it successfully. if it does fail, your ssh connection should remain open and you can probably fix it, but it would not be pretty.
so, it is up to you...
 
well, I can try with one machine and see if we can get it to work. Wouldn't that kill all running processes?
 
7:26 PM
You can do searches for "downgrade libc6 debian" and see for yourself.
@MERM no, it shouldn't.
e.g.
0
Q: Wrong libc6 version in Debian Squeeze -- can I go back?

NateDSaintAttempting to make some ruby gems work, I discovered I needed to install the dev ruby package, which apparently required the dev libc6. When I tried to install it (using the approved squeeze apt-sources), I discovered the latest libc6-dev was out of sync with my current version of libc. It turns ...

since you have removed all the unstable packages, you've maximized the chances of this going smoothly.
it might not be a bad idea to strip down the system even further, but that also risks breaking something
note: you are not going to try to remove libc6. that would be a disaster. just a downgrade to stable.
 
that doesn't look promising
 
@MERM what doesn't?
 
@MERM he's talking about a full downgrade, which is basically impossible
you're just trying to downgrade one package
 
oh
 
7:33 PM
incidentally, what does dpkg -l | grep ssh give?
 
# dpkg -l | grep ssh
ii libssh2-1 1.4.2-1.1 SSH2 client-side library
ii openssh-blacklist 0.4.1 list of default blacklisted OpenSSH RSA and DSA keys
ii openssh-blacklist-extra 0.4.1 list of non-default blacklisted OpenSSH RSA and DSA keys
ii openssh-client 1:6.0p1-4+deb7u1 secure shell (SSH) client, for secure access to remote machines
ii openssh-server 1:6.0p1-4+deb7u1 secure shell (SSH) server, for s
 
that looks ok
 
so is this my procedure?
aptitude download libc6 -t squeeze
dpkg --force-depends -i <name of package>.deb
 
@MERM no. i would try first
apt-get -s install -t stable libc6
sorry, hold on
ok, try
 
what will happen to programs that were not installed via apt? There are some programs that are part of the client's software installed
file ts2vsp
ts2vsp: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0xb43a9e4ec5416bc6cda9c7fe05d8ca38e0158a0f, not stripped
ENC01_root 171 #
 
7:37 PM
apt-get -s install -t stable libc6
@MERM i don't know.
can they be recompiled?
 
not sure. I don't think they were compiled locally. I thing they were installed pre-compiled
 
@MERM oh
 
so after I do
apt-get -s install -t stable libc6
 
@MERM well, this is just a test run. that is what -s means.
 
then I re-install everything from before (but stable)?
 
7:39 PM
it won't actually do anything
 
ok
 
@MERM if all goes well, yes.
 
here goes
# apt-get -s install -t stable libc6
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
libc6 is already the newest version.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 246 not upgraded.
 
ah, ok. one sec
first do apt-get download libc6. this will just download the libc6 deb package
you probably won't need it, but you never know
 
# apt-get download libc6
E: Can't find a source to download version '2.17-97' of 'libc6:amd64'
 
7:42 PM
@MERM add the stable version
apt-get download libc6=2.13-38+deb7u1
 
# apt-get download libc6
E: Can't find a source to download version '2.17-97' of 'libc6:amd64'
ENC01_root 175 # apt-get download libc6=2.13-38+deb7u1
Get:1 Downloading libc6 2.13-38+deb7u1 [4349 kB]
Fetched 4349 kB in 6s (723 kB/s)
got it
 
ok, now try apt-get -s install libc6/squeeze
 
# apt-get -s install libc6/squeeze
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
E: Release 'squeeze' for 'libc6' was not found
 
sorry, that should be wheezy.
cut and pasted
 
ok
 
7:44 PM
oldstable on my machine is squeeze
apt-get -s install libc6/wheezy
 
# apt-get -s install libc6/wheezy
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Selected version '2.13-38+deb7u1' (Debian:7.4/stable [amd64]) for 'libc6'
The following extra packages will be installed:
libc-bin
Suggested packages:
glibc-doc locales
The following packages will be upgraded:
libc-bin
The following packages will be DOWNGRADED:
libc6
1 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 downgraded, 0 to remove and 245 not upgraded.
Inst libc-bin [2.13-38] (2.13-38+deb7u1 Debian:7.4/stable [amd64])
 
@MERM excellent.
what does apt-cache policy libc-bin show
 
# apt-cache policy libc-bin
libc-bin:
Installed: 2.13-38
Candidate: 2.13-38+deb7u1
Version table:
2.13-38+deb7u1 0
500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable/main amd64 Packages
*** 2.13-38 0
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
 
@MERM ah, well you can try running apt-get install libc-bin first then.
 
# apt-get install libc-bin
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be upgraded:
libc-bin
1 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 245 not upgraded.
Need to get 1272 kB of archives.
After this operation, 1024 B of additional disk space will be used.
Get:1 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable/main libc-bin amd64 2.13-38+deb7u1 [1272 kB]
Fetched 1272 kB in 0s (1423 kB/s)
(Reading database ... 54587 files and directories currently installed.)
 
7:47 PM
that should just upgrade libc-bin to the current stable version
Ok, good. Now, are you ready to live dangerously?
 
we've come this far
yes
 
Ok, then apt-get install libc6/wheezy
and cross your fingers
 
# apt-get install libc6/wheezy
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Selected version '2.13-38+deb7u1' (Debian:7.4/stable [amd64]) for 'libc6'
Suggested packages:
glibc-doc locales
The following packages will be DOWNGRADED:
libc6
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 downgraded, 0 to remove and 245 not upgraded.
Need to get 4349 kB of archives.
After this operation, 729 kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y
Get:1 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable/main libc6 amd64 2.13-38+deb7u1 [4349 kB]
it didn't brick, so far
 
@MERM ok, does your machine seem to be still running?
 
yes
 
7:49 PM
try apt-get -f install
 
apt-get -f install
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 245 not upgraded.
 
ok, looks good. now try a apt-get -s upgrade and check that everything it mentions is stable/wheezy
again, just a test run
 
# apt-get -s upgrade | g unstable
ENC01_root 190 # apt-get -s upgrade | g test
ENC01_root 191 #
 
@MERM yes, does it pretty much just mention stable?
if you have stable in your sources, it really should, but no harm in making sure
 
g = grep
 
7:52 PM
If it looks ok, then run apt-get upgrade
 
# apt-get upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages have been kept back:
acpi-support-base base-files dpkg-dev git grub-common grub-pc ifupdown initscripts
libdpkg-perl libpam-modules libxvidcore4 man-db module-init-tools mount netbase nfs-common
passwd procps sysvinit ttf-freefont
The following packages will be upgraded:
acpi acpid adduser apache2-utils aspell aspell-es autoconf automake autopoint autotools-dev
base-passwd bash binutils bsdmainutils bsdutils busybox bzip2 ca-certificates checkinstall
 
looks good
 
Y
working...
 
bear in mind that this machine may run, but there might be a problem if/when you reboot it.
if there are problems with the boot config.
 
ok, I'll have to test that
 
7:54 PM
after running that, run apt-get dist-upgrade
 
before I do other machines
 
@MERM good idea
 
ok, still running
 
do you have a fast connection wherever that machine is?
 
decently fast
 
7:55 PM
@MERM just curious. you are a computer consultant?
wow, we've really clogged up this channel. :-)
 
yes. Mostly network architecture systems design
 
@MERM ok
i tend to talk to people here, because sometimes other people drop by and make suggestions, but it's pretty quiet today.
 
I have 20+ years playing with UNIX, but haven't run into this much messed up machines
 
then again, it is saturday.
 
I was CTO at an ISP for 15 year
yes, it is also a holiday weekend here Easter and Passover
 
7:57 PM
@MERM ah. does it pay well in your line of work? i've heard good things about computer consulting pay.
@MERM right. friday was easter
 
Sunday is Easter :)
 
@MERM sorry, good friday then?
 
yes, but not as steady as the CTO gig
yes, Good Friday
still running...
 
@MERM did you switch for personal reasons, or for more money?
 
I was a founder and sold the company. 15 years was enough, needed a better life
 
7:59 PM
ok, back in 5 again. try the dist-upgrade after this finishes
 
apt-get dist-upgrade running now
┌────────────────────────────────┤ Configuring grub-pc ├────────────────────────────────┐
│ A new version of configuration file /etc/default/grub is available, but the version │
│ installed currently has been locally modified. │
│ │
│ What do you want to do about modified configuration file grub? │
│ │
Line by line differences between versions │
│ │
│ --- /etc/default/grub 2013-01-18 12:12:35.798850466 -0500 │
│ +++ /tmp/grub.kjbvJai82H 2014-04-19 16:01:17.100761979 -0400 │
│ @@ -1,7 +1,9 @@ │
│ # If you change this file, run 'update-grub' afterwards to update │
│ # /boot/grub/grub.cfg. │
 
back now
This is a significant diffference -GRUB_DEFAULT=2 │
│ +GRUB_DEFAULT=0 │
 
I agree
 
Leave this for the moment.
Switch to a different ssh session, and first check the grub config file
and what kernel are you running?
 
# uname -a
Linux ENC01 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.35-2 x86_64 GNU/Linux
 
8:07 PM
/boot/grub/grub.cfg probably
that's good, that's the correct wheezy kernel
 
# cat grub.cfg
#
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE
#
# It is automatically generated by grub-mkconfig using templates
# from /etc/grub.d and settings from /etc/default/grub
#

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/00_header ###
if [ -s $prefix/grubenv ]; then
load_env
fi
set default="2"
if [ "${prev_saved_entry}" ]; then
set saved_entry="${prev_saved_entry}"
save_env saved_entry
set prev_saved_entry=
save_env prev_saved_entry
set boot_once=true
fi

function savedefault {
if [ -z "${boot_once}" ]; then
saved_entry="${chosen}"
 
what does dpkg -l | grep linux-image show?
 
# dpkg -l | grep linux-image
ii linux-image-2.6-amd64 3.2+46 amd64 Linux for 64-bit PCs (dummy package)
ii linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64 2.6.32-46 amd64 Linux 2.6.32 for 64-bit PCs
ii linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 3.2.54-2 amd64 Linux 3.2 for 64-bit PCs
ii linux-image-amd64 3.2+46 amd64 Linux for 64-bit PCs (meta-package)
 
Ok, I guess you are ok.
So, what you can do is, continue with the dist-upgrade, let the GRUB_DEFAULT=0
 
ok so keep the local version or go with the package maintainers?
 
8:10 PM
then remove linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64 2.6.32-46
 
ok
 
@MERM that would be the package maintainers
 
yep, got it
 
also toss out linux-image-2.6-amd64
that will only cause you trouble. so, two of the four packages you listed
2.6 is obsolete
 
apt-get remove linux-image-2.6-amd64 linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64 ?
 
8:12 PM
@MERM yes.
 
ok
 
but first let the dist-upgrade complete
 
it finnished
 
you can't run two apt processes at the same time anyway
@MERM ok
when you have removed those, check the grub config file again. it should show only one kernel
 
this doesn't look good:
ENC01_root 193 # apt-get remove linux-image-2.6-amd64 linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
libevent-1.4-2 libexiv2-9 libjpeg62 librpcsecgss3 libserf-0-0 libvpx0
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
The following packages will be REMOVED:
linux-image-2.6-amd64 linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
 
8:14 PM
@MERM i think that is ok.
 
yes, I checked and the symlinks are not there
 
what does the config file say?
 
no mention of 2.6
 
I think you could run update-grub if you want. won't do any harm
 
# update-grub
Generating grub.cfg ...
Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-4-amd64
Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-3.2.0-4-amd64
done
 
8:16 PM
looks ok.
ok, i guess the next thing you need to check is whether your machine will actually reboot. do you have anyone locally to intervene in case it doesn't?
but otherwise is the machine looking ok?
If so, I'll go ahead and write an answer to summarize.
 
not right now. I have to wait until Monday
 
@MERM ok
 
seems like it is still running
ok Thank You SO much. Couldn't have done it without you.
 
No problem. I'll write an answer summarizing.
 
thanks
 
8:22 PM
I think you can go ahead and reinstall packages now if you want. Hopefully it will go smoothly.
 
that's what I've been doing
so far so good
# apt-get -f install
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
yeah!
now to repeat on the other 60 machines :-/
 
Ok, I've summarized my answer. Anything else you'd like to add?
@MERM You'll be at it for the rest of April. I hope they are paying you well.
I left out some details. Not sure if they are worth adding.
 
slm
@MichaelMrozek When you get a chance a bit confused on how to handle these 2 Q's. The newer (unix.stackexchange.com/questions/125580/…) one seems to frame the Q more broadly, but the A for this new one is essentially already on the Q I referenced as a dup. (unix.stackexchange.com/questions/34734/…)
 
@slm hey. wondered where everyone was.
 
slm
@Graeme - thought we should dup the older Q to the newer one
I'm lurking today, trying to A Q's today
 
8:28 PM
@slm don't you think we need more diamond moderators?
 
@FaheemMitha I'll put in my summarized notes as I do the next ones. I have to check if it survives a reboot first
 
@MERM You mean, you'll answer the question yourself? or add it to the question? I recommend the former
 
ok
 
Or do you mean you'll edit my answer? if so, feel free. I don't mind.
 
I didn't know I could to that. But I just write a new answer so it is not confusing
 
8:30 PM
@MERM Sounds reasonable.
 
This all started installing some simple packages via scripts. Thought I'd be done in an hour or two. Boy was I wrong. I didn't know how badly messed up these machines were
 
@MERM Do you know who the previous admin was?
 
I think there were a few different ones over time. None still at the client's company
 
@MERM Hmm. Is it common for machines to get this badly messed up, in your experience?
 
aptitude suggesting 6 keeps build-essential, g++ ia32-libs lib32ncurses lib32v4l-0 lib4vl-0
 
8:35 PM
Actually, it could be worse, so...
@MERM hmm?
 
No, I've seen outdated machines, and ones with lots of problems, but these are at a whole new level
 
@MERM i personally don't recommend aptitude. apt-get may be a bit brainless, but it doesn't try to get fancy on you.
i generally prefer more manual tools, that will do what I tell them to. but opinions vary
aptitude has a fancy and largely unmaintained package resolver system, by the project founder who is no longer active.
 
I usually use apt-get for installs and maint, but aptitude works well for simple upgrades to packages
 
@MERM ok
Anyway, off for a bath. Take care.
 
enjoy!
thanks again!
 
slm
8:38 PM
@FaheemMitha nah I think we're ok
 
@slm with just one active diamond moderator?
@MERM You're welcome.
 
slm
we gave 3
The others are here, just lurking
 
@slm they are?
 
slm
sure I saw xeno last night
he asked a Q last night
Matt was here a day or 2 ago.
He A'd a Q
I always go to Michael 1st, just b/c he's the most active
We don't really need him but I wanted to enlist his help just b/c
 
What's a diamond moderator?
 
slm
8:41 PM
What Graeme's proposing seemed right to me too but I don't often merge the old into the new Q's as dups
but terdon has been doing this so I don't think it's that unusual
These are the diamond mods on our site
they are moderators
you know this if you notice the diamond next to their names
they have access to extra tools within a SE site that nobody else has
When you get to 15k and 20k rep you get access to tools in the review area of the sites
 
How much does something like that pay?
 
@mikeserv You know how graphite is a moderator in nuclear reactions? Diamonds are the same, only for Internet reactions.
4
 
slm
The tools look like this:
 
@mikeserv about 1 T-shirt
 
slm
 
8:46 PM
@slm that's the 10k tools, and they're mostly useless
 
That's the opposite of what I was thinking. Haha! I almost remarked on how I figured life would be pretty static as a diamond...
 
slm
I actually don't use it that much. They're helpful when I'm away for a bit but that almost never happens
yes they're useless, I didn't want to discourage ppl from getting to 10k,15k,20k but they're pretty useless indeed.
I wish we got a t-shirt
 
Not even a T-shirt?
 
the real thresholds are 50 (comments), 125 (downvotes), 300 (create tags), 3000 (close votes), 10000 (see deleted content), and 20000 (improve tag wiki edits)
2
 
slm
I know they gave some gifts a while back to john skeet and others on SO.
Yes going to 20k from 15k was like a giant WTF
even 10k -> 20k was extremely hohum
That's why I was making a big stink with the changes to the SE toolbar, they buried many things that I used daily so they're now 2-3 clicks away
 
8:49 PM
You get T-shirts for: being on among the top 72 users at some point after the site graduates, running in a moderator election, spending more than 1 year (IIRC) as a beta mod, getting 100k rep, winning occasional contests
 
slm
oooh so i can get a T-shirt, so what you have, like 10 of them?
 
not sure, maybe you have to be first at 100k
I never claimed mine
 
slm
can you send me one of yours?
 
Man. There's a lot I don't understand about that explanation. Probably my own fault - I'm sure that info could be had elsewhere. Just never looked very hard at it.
 
slm
i wear t-shirts everyday, they're my dress clothes so I can always use another one
 
8:51 PM
What does the T-shirt say? #71?
 
slm
50 rep you can leave a comment
300 you can create tags
 
18
Q: U&L swag for top users

Rebecca ChernoffAs a thank you for being awesome, if you have at least 1750 reputation (as of Mar 2) and are on page 1 or page 2 of … http://unix.stackexchange.com/users?tab=reputation&filter=all … we'll be sending you a little care package shortly: Unix & Linux Stack Exchange t-shirt in your size Unix & Lin...

 
That's a big one.
 
slm
3000 you can vote to close
 
G's got it on speed dial.
 
slm
8:51 PM
10000 you can see Q's and A's that have been deleted
they show up as red backgrounded throughout the site
20k you can improve the wiki tags
yeah I have that starred already too
 
Geekosaur is a cool nick.
Is that little mention button that shows up sometimes in chat whatever everyone is so annoyed at me for not doing?
 
slm
the shop.stackexchange.com site is gone
@mikeserv yes
 
I never pushed that button before.
 
slm
it makes it harder to follow what you're replying to, when you hover over a comment the ones that it's in reply to show up with a black background
 
Ahh.
Mouse stuff.
 
slm
8:55 PM
@mikeserv for example
 
It doesn't do much on the touch screen, I'm afraid.
 
slm
@Gilles - so we can't get any of the swag now?
 
Gonna have to shut pink panther off anyway. "But I'm not even tired daddy! Zzzzzzz."
 
slm
@mikeserv mine are playing the wii
 
@slm not on demand, no. They closed down the shop because it cost too much to run
 
8:56 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I want UL swag!
 
slm
they wore out the other one, got a replacement off of ebay
so then how do I get a t-shirt...that's the only reason I've been here
that's funny that it cost too much, the SE sites from what I can tell are rolling in it
 
@slm dolphin might be cheaper.
 
slm
ooo, hadn't seen this
it costs $70 off of ebay + another mote
the other one still turns on but somethings wrong w/ the bluetooth on it, none of the motes pair w/ it
 
It'd make a nice little web server then, probably.
Just something low power that you could leave on as needed - they'll run Linux, but don't expect any miracles out of those PowerPC chips.
 
9:13 PM
So I posted a link to this earlier - but will someone try to break this please? unix.stackexchange.com/a/125549/52934
So what happens if you get elected as moderator and then, you know, you get a new hobby or something? Or some other site offers a better T-shirt?
I guess what I'm asking is how binding can such a thing be?
 
@mikeserv given that there is no compensation from SE, moderators can obviously quit at any time
 
Well, obviously. But I meant, how is it handled from the site's end? Elections are just called whenever things start to suck on no specific timetable? Like in California?
I guess I just found out about the se code golf site. Thanks for those links, @Gilles. I so wanna tell this guy about about short-circuit tests but it kinda sucks that whenever you stumble upon a new one these umpteen a thousand sites you have to register and get 50 rep and so on just to drop a comment.
10
Q: Recreate a 'Snake' game in a console/terminal

BlazerGames are fun this codegolf here was so fun I had to make a version for other classic games similar in complexity. Shortest Way of creating a basic Space Invaders Game in Python This time, however, try to recreate the classic 'Snake' game, in which you start out as a small shape, constantly mov...

Though I guess now I'd get that instant 100 or whatever. Not even worth it though.
 
9:33 PM
@mikeserv there are elections soon after a site graduates from the beta stage, and then later only when new mods are needed
 
If [ ... ] ; then ... might not be the best approach if the central goal of writing the script is to do so with as small a character count as you can manage.
 
mods remain mods until they quit (or in extreme cases are fired)
 
@Gilles That makes better sense than what I was thinking. I guess I just associate democratic elections with a an off-leapyear.
 
@mikeserv I register on every site
 
They get fired? What does that take? Is there tar/feathers involved?
 
9:34 PM
@mikeserv that's very US-centric. I think all other places hold elections when the incumbent quits or dies
@mikeserv engaging in flamewars, being repeatedly rude
 
I know @Gilles. And, as I said, it does make bettersense the other way.
 
Also, if they violate the moderator agreement (e.g. by revealing private information), which has never happened that I know of
 
slm
@Gilles @mikeserv me too
 
Yeah, the rest of the world is on an entirely different level in terms of historic scale, huh? Might as well let them die in office, they're already the 5200th person to hold it?
 
@mikeserv the US is actually one of the oldest continuously operating democratic government (I'm sure you can find a reasonable definition under which it is the oldest)
 
9:37 PM
The US is a little baby. I read this forum thread somewhere asking about what the British taught in their schools about the revolutionary war. I think the top answer was Bubonic Plague.
Maybe that's true, but I'd probably have to try pretty hard.
Near to there was Magna Carta.
 
The US is recent compared with many other states. Not compared with states that hold elections
 
It put in perspective - for me anyway.
 
As the president of Harvard said: “We are proud to have participated in the life of the United States, a new development which we have watched with considerable interest” (or words to this effect)
 
And I live on the West Coast now. 50 year old buildings are old.
 
I live in a neighborhood which was part of one of the city's modern rapid expansion phases. My building is about 100 years old.
 
9:42 PM
When I was stationed in HI the hangar I worked out of was an historic monument - mostly due to Tora! Tora! Tora! - but even it was only a couple years old when the Japanese shot at it.
 
but there was another major growth phase in the 1960s, so in other neighborhoods buildings that are ~50 years old are commonplace
 
What city? It's France, yes?
 
Paris
 
Ah. I imagine there's a little history there. But the times they are a changing.
That Harvard thing had me laughing out loud by the way.
You must have upgraded your humor package.
 
slm
@mikeserv - how was Hawaii (HI)?
 
9:45 PM
Everything in Hawaiian ends in an i.
A - I is the diphthong or whatever over there.
Maybe they let the Queen choose the abbr it as a consolation prize after they annexed her kingdom.
Wow. I guess I used the word diphthong correctly.
Maybe not. I have no idea what this means: While there are a number of similarities, diphthongs are not the same as a combination of a vowel and an approximant or glide. Most importantly, diphthongs are fully contained in the syllable nucleus[5][6] while a semivowel or glide is restricted to the syllable boundaries (either the onset or the coda). This often manifests itself phonetically by a greater degree of constriction.[7] though this phonetic distinction is not always clear.[8
 
@mikeserv annexed is a very polite word for it.
 
Yeah, we yanks are known for our finer sensibilities.
 
0
Q: Ubuntu update-manager fails

Wavy CrabI have Ubuntu desktop installed. Every time update-manager runs it fails: Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gnutls26/libgnutls26_2.12.14-5ubuntu3.6_amd64.deb 404 Not Found [IP: 91.189.88.149 80] Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-firm...

What is this update manager thing?
@Gilles calling the US democratic is extremely flattering.
 
@FaheemMitha it's a democracy in the Churchill sense (every other system that people have tried is worse)
 
@Gilles maybe for white people.
 

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