Language Overflow

Man_From_India

01:20

@M.A.R. is it a new year day today in your local calender? Nowruz?

CowperKettle

01:30

@V.V. Yes. A happy day. Our city court banned an anti-corruption demonstration, because "Fighting corruption is against the Russian Constitution"

Now the demonstration is "illegal" and people who will go will be arrested

3 000 people signed up

Now they don't know what to do

They are prohibited from airing their opinion. This is the first time after USSR when people are banned from speaking in this way.

yubraj

02:24

Hi everyone! Good morning! What's the another word for erasing/cleanng the whiteboard in classroom?

user178049

02:39

@yubraj I think you can use "wipe"

user178049

03:13

@snailplane is it a cannonical clause if the obj is raised to be the subj "The book is easy to read" as an example.

Man_From_India

03:49

@user178049 i think it's cannonical clause. But I don't agree with you that the object is raised to the subject in your sentense.

user178049

@Man_From_India Isn't "The book" is the object for the verb "read"?

Actually, l was arguing with my friend because he said an obj always follows a verb in a cannonical clause. I believe it's NOT always.

Man_From_India

04:10

"he read the book easily"

In here "the book" is the object of the verb "read".

user178049

I think that "the book" is the implied obj in the example "The book is easy to read"-> "To read the book is easy".

Man_From_India

"the book is easy to read"

Here "the book" is the subject.

"easy to read" is the complement of the copular verb.

Inside the complement of the verb, "easy" is an adjective, it takes an infinitive clause as its own complement.

The subject of the infinitive clause is implied.

Yes you can say that the object of "read" is implied. And it's incorrect to explicitly mention it.

user178049

Ahh, that's what I mean. The obj is implied :D

@Man_From_India But I'm still not sure wether it's a cannonical clause or not.

Man_From_India

04:58

The sentence starting with ***to****, i don't know if it's cannonical, but it's not a well constructed sentence. @DamkerngT. can tell you whether it's canonical.

Damkerng T.

Better follows Huddleston. :-)

lel.ed.ac.uk/grammar/overview.html

> These illustrate the following properties of canonical clauses:
o They are positive; negative clauses like [ib] are non-canonical.
o They are declarative; interrogatives like [iib] are non-canonical, as are the other clause types: imperatives (e.g. Please stand up) and exclamatives (What a fool I've been).
o They are main clauses; the underlined clause in [iiib] is subordinate and hence non-canonical.
o They are non-coordinate; the two underlined clauses in [ivb] are coordinated and hence each of them is non-canonical.

So to be canonical, a sentence must be positive, declarative, a main clause, non-coordinate, and active.

The book is easy to read is positive, declarative, a main clause, non-coordinate, and active. So, it's canonical. :D

Argh! s/follows/follow/

See you later! o/

user178049

05:16

@DamkerngT. See ya! :D

SmokeDetector

06:32

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly non-Latin body: Meaning of text sought by Peter Nicolescu on ell.SE

Man_From_India

06:58

@DamkerngT. Yes the book is easy to read is canonical, but my doubt was if to read the book is easy. Whether to read the book is easy is canonical or not. And I think to read the book is easy is not a good sentence.

Feeds

08:56

0

Q: How exactly can I earn the Organizer badge?

I'm sorry for asking again, but I have no choice. I tried to ask in chat, but it did not help. I do not know how to earn Organizer badge. I understand I must do something with tags. I tried to add, delete or change the tags in my own questions several times. But no badge until now. If anyone expl...

CowperKettle

10:10

7

Q: Are there any vegan BDSM products?

Are there any vegan alternatives to leather-based BDSM products (clothing, whips, even handcuffs have a leather covering sometimes)?

veganism lifestyle clothing

I see the StackExchange network is expanding.

Damkerng T.

12:32

@Man_From_India Given a right context, I think To read the book is easy is okay. Canonical or not? Yes, I think it's canonical too.

Feeds

14:04

1

Q: All he had WAS/WERE bruises and cuts

All he had were bruises and cuts. All he had was bruises and cuts. What are the differences between these sentences? Are they both grammatical and, if so, which one is more natural?

grammar subject-verb-agreement cleft-constructions

Damkerng T.

14:47

@Feeds Nice bounty!

The question reminds me of an old ELU question of mine.

skill patrol

interesting...the "New feed items" has an 8 item max as it then scrolls down

Damkerng T.

6

Q: "When all you hear is fear and lies"

The first time I heard it (When You Believe by Leon Jackson), my grammar instinct screamed "When all you hear are fear and lies." But then again, I feel that the phrase "all you hear are" sounds a little odd, "all you hear is" sounds perfectly fine to me. But maybe I am wrong. Would you use is o...

grammar grammatical-number verb-agreement compound-subject

@skillpatrol Oh! I've never noticed when it scrolls. :D

skill patrol

yup, right after the 8th item

Damkerng T.

I guess I've gotta pay more attention the next time. :D

nods

skill patrol

:-)

CowperKettle

14:51

(0:

Is "the" necessary in "the next time"?

skill patrol

not really

it's optional

imo

Damkerng T.

I actually wanted to say the next time I see it, but because typing anything long sucks for me, so ... :)

skill patrol

np pal

CowperKettle

when parrot disguise in cat group

►

@DamkerngT. ah! When typing something long sucks, it's called verbisurgency

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

CowperKettle

15:00

(0:

Damkerng T.

It'd've been more correct if I said, I suck at typing anything long, BTW. :P

@CowperKettle Cats' reactions are funny!

CowperKettle

yes (0:

Damkerng T.

This is also funny (YouTube just recommended it): youtube.com/watch?v=S7znI_Kpzbs

userr2684291

@CowperKettle Reminds me of this: youtube.com/watch?v=0y2ZxgJNlWs

CowperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

15:18

12 Things You Eat That Are a Lie

►

Hah! Walnuts ain't nuts!

CowperKettle

And don't really grow in Wales!

> Old English walhnutu "nut of the walnut tree," literally "foreign nut," from wealh "foreign" (see Welsh) + hnutu (see nut). Compare Old Norse valhnot, Middle Low German walnut, Middle Dutch walnote, Dutch walnoot, German Walnuss, So called because it was introduced from Gaul and Italy, distinguishing it from the native hazel nut. Compare the Late Latin name for it, nux Gallica, literally "Gaulish nut."

userr2684291

Or on walls...

Word of the day: be-all and end-all

3

user62015

15:51

My sister ... out to the cinema with me
a) has taken b) was taken
c) is taken d) is going

D @M.A.R. @DamkerngT.

CowperKettle

yes, D

Fawad

16:06

Hi,I want to discuss one informal English language usage

Can I discuss here?

CowperKettle

Yes

My result on Speedtest.net

Fawad

Good fucking luck ,

Shut the fuck up

Why that fuck word, which is slang is. In middle of every sentence?

?

userr2684291

@Fawad It sort of intensifies the phrase.

@Fawad See here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expletive_infixation

Damkerng T.

17:15

0

A: I'm being corrected "I had a headache yesterday" vs "I have had a headache yesterday"

I'd like to add to the great answer by TRomano above a little. First off, I think you mean only Present Perfect (rather than Present Perfect + Past Tense), and your friend was right. This error is a common mistake among learners: the conflict between the tense and the time expression in the same...

I just wanted to say tenses and time expressions go together! I wrote it as a comment but ended up writing an answer! :P

@user62015 Nah! It's b) or c). See, you can pack your sister and take her around. -- Just kidding! :P

3

Q: Is it unpleasant to be called English when you're Scottish?

“the English: people from England, or sometimes from all of Britain” (Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English) “the English: infml the people of Britain” (Longman Dictionary of English Language and Culture) When I first learned English, “he is an English” meant he is a man who come...

vocabulary demonyms

Sometimes after introducing myself (i.e., "Where are you from?" "I'm from Thailand."), something like "Oh, you're Taiwanese!" could come up. This happens to me often enough.

Gives me a good laugh every time. :)

(And yeah, I do look like a Taiwanese, too!)

-1

A: Is it unpleasant to be called English when you're Scottish?

Scottish people are absolutely 100% NOT English, and would most likely be offended if referred to as such.

I'm not sure why this one got a downvote, though.

0

Q: Can I say "house's roof", or only "roof of the house"?

For example: 1) House's roof collapsed yesterday. or 2) The roof of the house collapsed yesterday. Which of these two is better and why?

possessive-case

If your teacher is a non-native speaker, @Alex89, chances are they might think The house's roof was ... is incorrect, and it has to be The roof of the roof was ...

(Hmm... my clipboard is acting up again.)

userr2684291

17:32

@DamkerngT. Yeah, it's a good answer. Some of them also don't like to be called British.

Damkerng T.

nods

userr2684291

@DamkerngT. Having said that, I don't see how it adds anything to the discussion.

Damkerng T.

Oops! The roof of the house was ...!

@userr2684291 nods -- Possibly

Alex89

18:03

Hello to everyone. Can I ask a question about my bounty? I wonder what happens if after expiration of the week my bounty question will still have zero answers. Would it be good to delete it, or close it, or answer myself, or put another bounty on it? I really don't know.

userr2684291

@Alex89 If you can, answer it. If you're happy with the answer, accept it.

@DamkerngT. I would say "I look Taiwanese", and I don't know whether you can say "a Taiwanese". Can you always form nouns from adjectives denoting nationality?

A dictionary tells me Chinese can be a countable noun, so it's alright.

Feeds

18:26

1

Q: The use of Could you"

I want to ask a question politely to the client. What is the best way to say it? Could you please let me know when you want to go to a bus station? Do you think it is a correct way to say it?

phrase-usage

ColleenV

@Alex89 If a bounty doesn't get an answer for you, I would look at what you might do to the question to make it more attractive. Does it have a good title? Can you explain more about your question or about what you found when you were looking for an answer to it?

If no answers come from your bounty, you will get your reputation back, so when you've tried improving your question, you could offer the bounty again.

Alex89

Thanks, ColleenV. Today I put another bounty, this time on other person's question. No answers either till now. I'll wait until the bounty expires. Did not know that I could get the reputation back, thanks for that notice.

CowperKettle

@Alex89 With your high level of English you can earn heaps of reputation in no time

Good evening, fellow overflowers

Alex89

18:42

I understood (if I am correct) that the Custodian badge can be earned only by those users who have not less than 500 points of reputation. And I still don't know well how to earn Cleanup. Does it need 500 points of reputation as well?..

PauloHDSousa

19:05

Hello

This sentenc

I thought that this existed ( is it correct ) ?

userr2684291

298

Q: What is a 'rollback'?

What is a 'rollback' on Stack Exchange sites? I see this mentioned for the cleanup badge, but I do not understand the term. See also Why can people edit my posts? How does editing work? in the Help Center Return to FAQ index

support faq edits rollbacks

@Alex89 To earn the Cleanup badge you don't need 500 reputation points, but for the Custodian one you do, because only at 500 rep you can access review queues. Incidentally, I just found out I can see vote counts.

@PauloHDSousa Yes.

Alex89

19:25

Thanks, I saw that page. But I really do not see these 'rollback' buttons. I sought them everywhere. Here are all buttons which I have: 'share', 'edit', 'close', 'delete' and 'flag'.

userr2684291

19:35

@Alex89 Append /revisions to the URL of your question or answer, and there should be a rollback button next to the number of each previous edit.

ColleenV

@Alex89 "rollback" can only be done when you are looking at the edit history. Read this answer carefully for details:

165

A: What is a 'rollback'?

A rollback does a couple of things: Most importantly, a rollback reverts a question (or answer) back to a previous version in the edit history. The rollback action itself then appears as the most recent item in the edit history. A rollback clears any offensive flags that have been set on a ques...

Be careful rolling back an edit just to get a badge - too many rollbacks is a sign of an editing war and alerts the moderators as a problem

Of course if someone has changed your own post in a way you don't like, you should feel free to roll back that edit and make your own edit

userr2684291

@ColleenV What does the percentage here mean? i.sstatic.net/u3MdP.png

How much everyone else has contributed – quantified?

ColleenV

I think that means of the 15 revisions, that percentage of them were done by x number of users

but that doesn't make sense

Let me rephrase - I don't know off the top of my head. Let me see if I can find out :)

userr2684291

OK, I'll search for it myself as well.

ColleenV

This is a good place to look for examples:

51

Q: Resources for learning English

This is a specifically created Community Wiki which gathers resources for learning English and it has been approved by the Community itself. It should be clear that the resources are not written by one user or only by the mods, but by whoever wants to contribute. Just write in the appropriate a...

discussion faq online-resources resource-request

each answer there is a wiki

userr2684291

19:47

2

A: What does percentage mean on a community wiki answer?

From the answers to the Meta Stack Exchange question What does the % in the Community Wiki box mean? it is a crude approximation of the percentage of the post that was contributed by the user who has contributed the most to it. (This will be the user whose name appears in the footer to the p...

ColleenV

with a different number of contributors

So it is a measure of how much one person impacted the content

wikis with only one contributor would have 100%

Alex89

Thanks to you, userr2684291 and ColleenV. You are helpful. It took me some time, but I finally got the Cleanup.)

userr2684291

@Alex89 Did you actually type out my handle?

Damkerng T.

@userr2684291 I wouldn't use I look Taiwanese, personally. For me, the two alternatives convey a bit different nuances. As for Taiwanese being a noun, Most Asian nationalities work like this, AFAICT, maybe because we don't share the same root with Western languages, at least not relatively recently.

ColleenV

userr2684291

19:49

@DamkerngT. Yeah, I think that's the reason. What are the nuances you're talking about, though?

ColleenV

for badges

Damkerng T.

@userr2684291 Well, I think it's probably somewhat like He looks tired vs. He looks like a tired person.

Alex89

sorry... don't know what is "type out the handle"((

Damkerng T.

Not exactly, but explaining nuances is not easy.

@Alex89 Handle is an old word for "username".

Whether it's old or not is probably arguable, though. :)

Alex89

Ooh, I understand know. Thanks.

userr2684291

19:52

@DamkerngT. I don't think it old, just neutral sorta.

Damkerng T.

nods

I think it's just that I haven't heard it as often lately.

Alex89

I remember once at an English lesson in college (I think it was in 2005 or maybe in 2006) we discussed for about half an hour the meaning of the phrase "why flew off the handle".

userr2684291

@Alex89 What?

@Alex89 What does that mean?

Alex89

I am not sure I know it exactly. But surely that phrase was in our textbook.

My suggestion was the following: someone is very rude or has bad habits and cannot rid off them.

not off but of them

userr2684291

@Alex89 phrases.org.uk/meanings/fly-off-the-handle.html There's this expression.

Damkerng T.

20:02

Okay, I weighed in:

Could you please ...? could be an unfortunate choice (though YMMV). For more details, see this answer: Using “please” when assigning tasks — Damkerng T. 24 secs ago

@userr2684291 Ah, it's not like what I thought!

Yeah, the origin makes more sense that way.

Alex89

@userr2684291 thanks for the link. It means "to lose self-control".

And I have learned finally how to address a specific user in the chat.)

Damkerng T.

@Alex89 Yay!

Hey, this is interesting!

stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/…

userr2684291

@DamkerngT. Yeah, I didn't know so many of them preferred the soft G variant.

Damkerng T.

Oh! Under Which Methodologies Do Developers Use?, waterfall is still there!

userr2684291

"We're not sure how the 2% of developers who chose 'some other way' say it, but we're very, very curious." Hahah.

Damkerng T.

20:12

:D

Alex89

In our Moldova people pronounce the word 'begin' with a soft G. They don't want to understand it is hard there. In Romanian simply there are almost no exceptions from the spelling rules... so G is always soft before E or I (and Y is practically not used at all).

Damkerng T.

I wonder if I will understand them right away when they say bejin! :P

One thing we can see on the map: the bigger countries in Africa are almost of about the same size!

Alex89

Oh, our J is like in French or Portuguese. If you now the phrase "je t'aime".

Damkerng T.

@Alex89 Ah, that's even more different from the hard G!

Wow, male 88.6%!

We need more gals!

Alex89

I now participate at a site where you answer at questions related to size and population of the countries. Sometimes it causes a lot of trouble. E. g. I did not know that Mali has more people than Switzerland. I thought Mali has deserts: Sahara etc, so it might have little population. And Switzerland has banks, watches, cities...

Damkerng T.

20:21

@Alex89 IIRC, it's rather sparse in Switzerland.

People are very nice, BTW.

Alex89

Oh, I see you are from Bangkok.

Damkerng T.

Yep! :D

Alex89

I haver never been to Asia. I think people are wise there, especially at east. But I dislike all these West Asian countries, with their islam, terrorism etc. I am sorry if here are Muslims... I do not hate them, just try to avoid.

Damkerng T.

@Alex89 nods -- I understand that.

I don't think Asians are particularly wise or wiser in any way, though. :D

Alex89

I know Thai alphabet, by the way. Tried to progress further, but you know, it is hard to know a language well. But I still think Thai is wonderful.

Damkerng T.

20:31

@Alex89 Ah, that's awesome! -- And thanks!

Thai alphabet can be confusing. It can confuse even native speakers sometimes, too.

Alex89

I would be extremely happy if I will ever have a chance to communicate with a Thai woman) Maybe not in Thai but in English.

Damkerng T.

@Alex89 Haha! Sorry that I'm not a Thai woman. :P

Alex89

Oh, I see. But it's very nice to talk with you, too.

Damkerng T.

Thanks! Come visit Thailand. I'm sure you'll meet a lot of Thai women (and men). :)

We're friendly, too, generally. :D

Alex89

One of my problems at Thai is that I was a little bit confused with two of five Thai tones, the rising and the falling. It seems that the pitch of the syllable changes more than once... I tried to compare it with musical tones, if you can understand me. And I found that it rarely happens in music...

Damkerng T.

20:40

@Alex89 Yes. The names also suggest that the tones are not constant. They're either rising or falling.

Alex89

Oh, I would be glad to visit Thai. But I am so sick((( I do not want to talk much about sicknesses, but I have some. I hardly can travel. But I once travelled by plane and I loved it. Maybe some day I will visit Thailand by plane, who knows.

Damkerng T.

Aww... I hope you'll get better soon.

Yeah, who knows indeed!

Your intuition is pretty good. As you can see, before the falling tone really falls, it climbs up a little.

Alex89

Yes. yes. That is what I meant.

Damkerng T.

The same to the rising tone, before rising it dips down a bit.

Alex89

))) you got my idea

Damkerng T.

20:43

Yay! :D

Alex89

I tried to explain to my father the difference between Thai words 'snake' (ngu) and mouse (nu). But I don't know if he understood it well.) But at least I tried my best. We don't have that 'ng' sound, as in 'ngu'.

Damkerng T.

I've heard that most languages don't have "ng" at the beginning of a word or a syllable.

Only a few have it. Thai is one of them.

It's actually pretty much the same as English "ng" in the middle of a word, like in ringing.

Alex89

It is pretty nice. But it is strange that you do not have G (have you?)

For example, how do you write Guatemala, or Gabon

Damkerng T.

We don't have a G like in English, but we have "k" and "kh".

@Alex89 We usually use ก (roughly, a Thai "k") for these names.

It's an unaspirated "k", which sounds almost like a "g".

Alex89

Hmm. That's ko kai.

Damkerng T.

20:50

Yes! Exactly!

Guatemala ~ กัวเตมาลา. Gabon ~ กาบอง

Alex89

ngo ngu at the end of Gabon? hmmm.

Damkerng T.

Yes! Because it's supposed to pronounced with "ng" at the end, I think.

Alex89

I wonder how my family name would be in Thai. In English it is written Chorny. It's interesting which letter in Thai will be the first one. Maybe cho chan (plate)?

Damkerng T.

Is this "Ch" pronounced like the "ch" in church or like a "k"?

Alex89

like in church or chess

Damkerng T.

20:55

If it's like church, ช (cho chang) would be a better choice than จ (jo jan).

Alex89

Oh, cho chang (elephant). Thanks.

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure which is a better transliteration choice for จ between cho chan and jo jan.

Don't mention it! :D

I think, some Thai linguists transcribe จ with a c (not a ch, not a j).

Alex89

Thanks a lot for this info. I would be glad to continue the conversation, but I'm sorry I must go to bed. (My father does not allow me to use the computer too much). I was very glad to meet you. Maybe tomorrow we'll talk again)

Damkerng T.

But it would look a bit strange to most people, e.g., จ = co can. :)

Okay. Rest well!

It was a nice chat for me as well.

Alex89

Good night.

Damkerng T.

20:58

Good night!

What is "sth"...it shows up a ton in the Related sidebar — Nick T 20 mins ago

LOL

userr2684291

@DamkerngT. It's pretty standard, I don't know why people are so against it.

Damkerng T.

I guess a lot of native speakers don't know or haven't seen sth before.

userr2684291

21:16

Just so it's said, "sth" is not a word. I wish its use would die. — cHao 3 hours ago

Catija

21:27

@userr2684291 This is also one of my pet peeves. I delete it any time I see it. It's utterly lazy considering we don't really have any length restraints that anyone ever comes close to hitting.

@DamkerngT. Correct. I'd never seen it until I came here.

Damkerng T.

nods -- No wonder it feels weird to most speakers. :-)

userr2684291

22:21

@Catija It's widely used in English dictionaries and textbooks, and our teacher would sometimes write "sth." instead of "something". I don't consider those abbreviations out of place at all, especially since this is ELL, and because they are always used in that context (e.g., when giving an example of a pattern: "do sth to sb" – here I would regard "sth" and "sb" as placeholders, and maybe italicize them to emphasize that fact further). It feels very normal to me as an English learner.

Catija

@userr2684291 I'd hazard to guess that most of the native English speakers on ELL aren't part of the EFL/ESL framework... they're like me... SE users who found a place with interesting questions to answer. We have not generally seen this usage... which is why it's odd to us... Again, my point is that there's no need to shorten these words. SE is not a dictionary with limited space.

userr2684291

22:45

Ugh.

@Catija You used 4 abbreviations because you assume a certain context... People who decide to stick around will inevitably learn those abbreviations anyway. Teach them what they are, it's part of the enculturation everyone unavoidably undergoes while answering questions here. Most people find out what "OP" stands for, so I see no reason why "sth" or "sb" ought to be censured.

I'm pretty sure there are other abbreviations that are considered common currency here that outsiders will at first find obstructing, and then subsequently negotiate and not think much about.

Catija

I don't see how initialisms are the same as unnecessary exclusion of letters from a word.

userr2684291

@Catija That's literally the same thing.

(Who cares what letters are excluded.)

Catija

Following your argument to its end would cause us to use almost no full words. I don't see how that benefits a person trying to learn how to actually use the English language. They use it here and they think everyone uses them whic isn't the case at all.

They are not the same at all.

userr2684291

23:00

@Catija No, because there is a certain context for certain abbreviations.

Catija

What gives context? A dictionary is context. A site where people are supposed to use actual English to compose proper sentences and paragraphs has no similar context.

userr2684291

@Catija Yeah, I think a dictionary is a pretty standard thing an average user of this site should use, don't you?

I see native speakers of English quoting dictionary definitions all the time, anyway.

@Catija Maybe it would be easier if it said "sb." (with the period included) – I'll be honest, it's easier for me that way because it looks like a proper abbreviation, isn't it?

@Catija Look at all these legit abbreviations I think you wouldn't bat an eyelash at if you saw them (or would you?) indiana.edu/~letrs/help-services/QuickGuides/oed-abbr.html

Catija

23:22

You're missing my point... in a dictionary, it's in context... it's in a dictionary. Our site is not a dictionary. There is no context for it on the site.

@userr2684291 In the case of writing a question or answer I would be extremely unlikely to use any of those. As I've already said twice... there's no need to save space by abbreviating words. The only abbreviations I can say that I use regularly on this site are F and C for Fahrenheit and Celsius. And, yes, if someone wrote "geol." instead of "geology" or "lang." for "language" I would find it extremely odd.

Even in writing answers I tend to use "American English" and "British English" rather than "AmE" or "BrE", which I try to only use in comments.

Other than initialisms, I can't say that I tend to see abbreviations outside of specific cases.

userr2684291

@Catija Haven't you noticed that when a question or answer contains such language, it's always in context or form of a dictionary definition?

Catija

Look, I'm not going to continue to hash this out. I hate them and it's one of the few things I hate.

Nothing you can say about it will change that.

Just talking about it makes my skin crawl.

userr2684291

Haha.

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