Language Overflow

Anonymous

00:43

If they want to clean the blackboard? :-)

Anonymous

How often does that happen, I wonder?

user178049

02:40

Hey, guys

Do you still call it a cannonical clause if it doesn't follow the SVO order. "Some people you hate, some people you don't" for example.

Anonymous

03:02

Nope, that's non-canonical. The idea behind "canonical clauses" is that it's easier to describe the language if you start by describing more basic sentences, and then describe ways that other sentences can be derived from these (by adding negation, by turning them into questions, by preposing complements, etc.).

Anonymous

So the canonical clause there would be "You hate some people". Then we produce a negated version: "You don't hate some people". And we prepose the complement some people in both clauses, contrasting them: Some people you hate, some people you don't hate. Last, we have post-auxiliary ellipsis (often called VP ellipsis) following don't. We can leave out hate the second time around.

user178049

03:57

My friend said that a direct obj always follows a verb. I just want to prove that he is wrong. But, I fail..haha. Thank you @snailplane

My understanding was innacurate. I thought that a cannonical clause is active, declarative, and assertive.

CowperKettle

04:20

Good morning to all florisurgent insurgents

Hmm

"Florisurgent insurgent" is a nice nickname

user178049

Good morning @CowperKettle . What is florisurgent?

CowperKettle

04:44

@user178049 a made-up word

> Word of the day: florisugent - 16h ago by userr2684291

Anonymous

05:11

@user178049 Direct objects don't always follow verbs. Your sentence is a good counterexample. In that case, the direct objects have been preposed (fronted) out of their basic position.

Anonymous

@user178049 That's a good description! But it's not a complete description.

Anonymous

When you say assertive, do you mean 'affirmative'?

user178049

Ahh, I think I learned "assertive". Because we have non-assertive(negative).

Afraid that I was misled O.o

Anonymous

Well, I understood what you were trying to say.

Anonymous

I think that assertive is an alternative term for affirmative.

Anonymous

05:21

Different linguists use different terms. That's okay. It doesn't mean that you were misled. :-)

user178049

lel.ed.ac.uk/grammar/overview.html Positive=assertive, right, hopefully.

Anonymous

Sometimes it's a challenge to compare terminology from different theoretical frameworks.

Anonymous

For example the other day when we were talking about subject–auxiliary inversion and subject–operator inversion.

Anonymous

In A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language (Quirk et al. 1985), for example, operator is defined as the first or only auxiliary.

Anonymous

If you have several auxiliaries, of course only the first one inverts.

user178049

05:23

Ahhh, yes. The problem is that I'm learning from different sources. Thank you @snailplane for clearing it up. :-D

Anonymous

So it makes sense to say subject–operator inversion as well, if you're using their terminology.

Anonymous

But both terms basically refer to the same thing.

Damkerng T.

06:17

3

Q: The Color red or the Red color

I want some help with this: I have read: The color red is beautiful Why don't we say "the red color" instead, taking into account that in English many times the adjective comes first. For example: the blue car, or the red label?

I think the only correct answer is: because!

We don't say the red color, but we say the apple tree, the eagle bird, etc.

So we can't simply say that the reason we don't say the red color is because red is already a color.

Do we say the color red because the color red comes from the color (that is) red?

Hmm... why don't we say the bird eagle, then? The bird (that is) eagle makes sense, right?

Wait, we need an article there. So, maybe, the bird (that is an/the) eagle.

Okay, maybe we want something that can be a noun and an adjective.

How about a human child? We don't say a child human, I suppose.

Even though a child that is human would make perfect sense.

A human child has the same pattern as the red color, I'd say. Yet one is correct and the other is not.

Anonymous

You could be right. I'm not sure, though.

Anonymous

I mean, the color red and the red color are both perfectly grammatical.

Anonymous

But the meaning is slightly different.

Damkerng T.

Ah, hmm..., what is the red color supposed to mean? (a bit confused)

Anonymous

If someone showed you a bunch of different colors and asked your opinion on them, you might say something like: "I don't really like either of the blues. I like the red color, though."

Anonymous

06:26

You aren't talking about the color red in general, you're talking a specific color (or shade) which happens to be red, and you're specifying that you're talking about the red one so they know which one you mean.

Damkerng T.

Ah, thanks!

Anonymous

But that kind of situation probably doesn't come up too often.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

So I would expect the color red to be rather more common than the red color.

Anonymous

Erm.

Anonymous

06:27

Google Books Ngram Viewer is trying its best to confuse me: books.google.com/ngrams/…

Damkerng T.

Oh! An interesting chart!

Anonymous

On the bright side, this gives you plenty of examples of where the red color makes sense.

Damkerng T.

> To preserve, therefore, the red color of this oxide in the fire, it must be prevented from vitrifying and abandoning its oxygen.

This makes sense.

making a guess -- Maybe the color red follows the pattern the Prime Minister Theresa May.

Oh! Even "the pattern the Prime Minister Theresa May" follows the same pattern!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Yes, that was my intuition.

Anonymous

I think the difference in meaning follows from the grammatical difference.

Anonymous

06:41

Color words are actually quite tricky, though.

Færd

07:29

@userr2684291 Before we decide whether it should be put that way we must understand what is meant by it. And I don't agree with your interpretation. The hate minimum in that context appears to be the least amount you have to do. Whether or not you have volunteered for it is a red herring.

It's not a question of who obliged you (you or anyone else), it's about the obligation to do the least work expected itself.

> Leave a trail of happy people who you've done a bit more for than they expected and you'll do well in life.

Outside expectation doesn't jibe with voluntary work.

And yes, I wouldn't put it that way either, nor would most speakers of English, I reckon. Maybe a special term used and understood in some special circles.

@ThatBrazilianGuy It probably does not.

Alex89

08:09

'Post 10 messages, with 1 or more starred, in chat' (earning Talkative badge). Could somebody please explain what is 'starred' in this particular case? For me, it is associated with a main role in a film.)

user178049

08:21

@Alex89 Just like the "starred chat" in WhatsApp.

CowperKettle

08:43

Paragliding vs Eagle (original) / Параплан против орла

►

Wow

Alex89

CowperKettle, не знал, что Вы русский (-ая). Как-то скучно мне на этом сайте. Участники не очень приветствуют мои вопросы. С наградами тоже непонятки, не удаётся получить некоторые. Посижу здесь ещё с недельку, а потом, может быть, уйду, если не найду понимания.

CowperKettle

@Alex89 Sure! It's better to read books and watch movies than hang around on a grammar site

I'm here because I'm a translator and I need to ascertain this or that thing now and then

Install the Anki software to learn more words, and just read interesting books (0:

Stack Exchange

09:21

0

Q: Is here a daily limit for the number of questions, answers or comments?

I already know I can post a question only once in 40 minutes. At least, I got this message from the system when I tried to post a second question in a period of 40 minutes. But, besides that, aren't here some particular limits for the number of questions, or answers, or comments? I would be glad ...

support

CowperKettle

1

Q: How to pronounce correctly final Y in words such as "city" or "story"?

I am interested in pronunciation of the letter Y at the end of the words, such as city, story, belly, penny and so on. Wonder what sound it denotes. I understand it is some kind of [i] sound. But is it a tense or a lax vowel?

phonetics orthography

I wish I understood the difference between "city" with a tense and "city" with a lax final "y"

I haven't found any examples on YouTube

Araucaria

@snailplane snap: ell.stackexchange.com/questions/39737/…

@DamkerngT. Perhaps see my answer here: ell.stackexchange.com/questions/39737/… - which I think says the same kind of thing that @snail was saying :)

Alex89

Cowper Kettle, the tense i-like vowel in English is like 'ea' in 'bean' and the lax vowel is the I in 'bin', something similar to Ukrainian И. The interesting thing is that some sources tell me that the short tense [i] is not present at all in English phonetics inventory...

Anonymous

10:27

Wait, I'm going to remove my responses there and research that.

Anonymous

Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria Thanks! The explanation is very well-organized. I wonder why it's gotten only 7 votes.

Anonymous

Here:

Anonymous

phonetic-blog.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/…

Anonymous

John Wells is talking about writing /i/ when the distinction between /iː/ and /ɪ/ is neutralized, but he does not say that it's actually phonetically realized as [i] in either case.

Anonymous

10:30

But then here:

CowperKettle

@Alex89 Thank you! For some reason, I care little about pronunciation.. I don't know why

Anonymous

phonetic-blog.blogspot.com/2012/06/happy-again.html

Anonymous

> Like many other phoneticians of English, for the past twenty-odd years I have been using the symbol i to represent the weak ‘happY’ vowel used in positions where the FLEECE-KIT distinction, iː vs. ɪ, is neutralized, and where an older generation of RP speakers used a lax [ɪ] but a younger generation tend to prefer a tense [i].

Anonymous

Why do you suppose he writes [i] in brackets and not [iː] there?

Damkerng T.

Maybe it's like our the color red vs. red. :)

Anonymous

10:33

I need to read about happy-tensing.

Anonymous

I'm not sure I'm understanding it right.

Damkerng T.

Interesting that in the two editions of LPD, the first syllable of believe is transcribed differently. One with ɪ, and the other with i.

I'm sure that I've heard some speakers pronouncing believe like "buh-leave" too.

@Alex89 You just got one star! (So you have posted one message starred. :-)

userr2684291

10:49

@Færd Sorry, I just don't care anymore.

Araucaria

11:16

@DamkerngT. Because it was a late answer, I suspect (or it's too long and boring).

Araucaria

11:36

@snailplane Two reasons. The first is that ':' is a length diacritic whereas he's only talking about the vowel quality. Also the happy vowel is shorter (for BE speakers at least, but I believe in AmE too) than the fleece vowel. So it has a length comparable to KIT in that position.

And because it's a narrow transcription, even though it is an allophone of FLEECE /i:/ for those speakers, it isn't appropriate to use the i: symbol which refers to the phoneme there when we are doing a narrow transcription of the allophone HAPPY.

If that makes any sense at all.

Damkerng T.

12:12

Sister Act Oh Happy Day HD

►

I think they chorused the -y in happy rather long. :-)

user178049

"What are you worried about?" If "worried" here were a particial adjective, there shouldn't be any preposition here. Right?

Araucaria

12:30

@DamkerngT. You ain't kidding!!!!

Anonymous

@user178049 It is a participial adjective. I'm very worried about you.

Araucaria

Here's Jane Setter (who I work with on SCEP every summer)'s version!! Enjoy :-) youtube.com/watch?v=_mikec322bM

@DamkerngT. How do you embed a video in chat?

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria By pasting a link as an entire message.

Araucaria

The happY vowel song

►

Ah, that worked!!

Damkerng T.

Yay!

Araucaria

12:34

Thanks @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

Don't mention it! :D

Araucaria

:-)

Damkerng T.

Ah, Happi-iee-ee-ee in the chorus part! :D

Thanks!

Araucaria

My pleasure :D

user178049

@snailplane Ugh, my comment is probably misleading. Glad that Teacher KSHuang mentions it.

Btw, thnks snailplane

Alex89

14:24

I wonder what is the difference between Promoter and Benefactor badges. Promoter = First bounty you offer on your own question; Benefactor = First bounty you manually award on your own question. If I can offer a bounty, but not manually, then how I can do that?..

ColleenV

14:48

@Alex89 The difference is "offering" a bounty and "awarding" a bounty.

Lawrence

If you offer a bounty but don't award it, some percentage goes to the accepted answer automatically upon bounty expiry.

ColleenV

Offering is when you initially set up the bounty. Once people have had a chance to respond to the bounty, you can choose the answer to award it to, or you can just wait and the system will automatically award it for you.

There are details in the help center.

Alex89

Oh, sorry for my stupidness. Now I got it. Thanks.))

Lawrence

@Alex89 Nah, it's good to see people show interest and be involved in the community. :)

ColleenV

@Alex89 Stupid is different from ignorant :) Don't apologize for asking questions to cure your ignorance.

SmokeDetector

15:02

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, pattern-matching website in body: showing up all over. Despite lorevive by gdfgdfg45 on ell.SE

Lawrence

@SmokeDetector That went quick! Already closed by the time I clicked on the link.

ColleenV

6 spam flags in 1 minute - SmokeDetector is a wonderful thing...

Alex89

OK, but can anybody please explain me about how to get the Altruist? I seem not to understand well the scheme. Let me begin. I see a great question, which is not mine, but of somebody else. This question has no answers and is at least 48 hours old. I decide to offer a bounty on this question. OK, I have got the Investor. After that, the question receives a bunch of answers. Will I have the privilege to choose which answer is the best and deserves the bounty?

I mean that maybe the author of question has a totally different opinion! I don't want to have an enemy...

ColleenV

15:20

@Alex89 It's your reputation that pays the bounty, so you may choose how to award it. More than one bounty can be offered on a question, so if the author wants to award a bounty, they can offer their own reputation for it. Think of it like cash from your wallet - you get to spend it how you like.

Also the author should appreciate you paying for a bounty on their question, because it attracts more attention and answers, which should be helpful to them.

Alex89

15:38

Oh, more than one to a question. Thanks.

Araucaria

2

Q: After Adjective , what is correct infinitive or gerund in the given sentence.

it is wonderful to feel or it is wonderful feeling i have read somewhere that we have to use infinitive after adjectives so according to that it is wonderful to feel should be correct. And it is feeling wonderful has a different meaning than it is wonderful to feel . Am i right ?

adjectives infinitives

Alex89

15:53

I am sad that my question was edited using the word 'preformance'. Does it even exist?)

ColleenV

@Alex89 If you don't like an edit, you can always roll it back as the author of the question. You can also address anyone who has edited your question with @user in the comments under your question if you would like to ask them about the edit.

"preformance" is a typo : ldoceonline.com/spellcheck/english/?q=preformance

Alex89

Thanks, ColleenV. I'll leave my question as is. I don't want to argue with people who have higher reputation than me) I came here from a site where every question must have a mandatory question mark at the end... but I see that at StackExchange isn't such a rule.

ColleenV

@Alex89 We don't argue - we discuss :) and just because someone has more reputation than you doesn't mean they are always more correct. Reputation means that you get certain privileges on the site because you have a good record of positive contributions, not that you have ultimate knowledge about everything...

Alex89

16:09

I wonder why do you use reputation on bounties. At my site, we have our reputation, but for all bounties, we have credits. It is a kind of currency. So when we start a bounty we slice our credits only and never lose our privileges.

Stack Exchange

18:25

0

Q: Are words like "well-known" spelled with a hyphen in dictionaries?

There are compound words in English like well-known, ill-mannered and so on. The rules tell us that they are spelled with a hyphen (well-known) if they are attributes (attributive adjectives), but without hyphen (well known) if they are predicates (predicative adjectives). It's all right. But w...

hyphens

Damkerng T.

@Alex89 I bet you've already figured it out. :-)

CowperKettle

Good evening

Damkerng T.

Evening!

CowperKettle

The bicycling season has started

Rode to the Falcon Stone today (0:

Damkerng T.

Good news for bicyclers!

CowperKettle

18:28

35 kilometers

I'll drop asleep now

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

CowperKettle

I rode long distance in September last time, so 35 km was quite a torture

Damkerng T.

I thought it was easy for you. :)

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. I managed it, but in a very tired state at the end

Damkerng T.

Aww... the sunset is beautiful

CowperKettle

18:31

Probably bicycling involves a different set of muscles from jogging

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle You must be sleeping well tonight! :D

CowperKettle

Because I jogged 50 minutes in the morning and it was easy peasy lemon squeasy

Damkerng T.

(come to think of it, 'must sleep well' flows better)

CowperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle nods

CowperKettle

18:32

A friend held my helmet and I snapped him

Lion King style ^_^

Damkerng T.

:D

CowperKettle

Damkerng T.

It could've been the Titanic style if it was a duo. :-)

CowperKettle

On the way back, in total darkness

Damkerng T.

That's pretty dark!

The traffic lights seems so far away.

CowperKettle

18:34

Yes, there were long stretches of road without light, in the woods

Like this

> Happy is Russia! I could be content
To see no other verdure than its own;
To feel no other breezes than are blown
Through its tall woods with high romances blent

But no verdure in sight yet

(0:

Damkerng T.

:D

The sky was so clear.

V.V.

19:08

A happy poetry day, @CowperKettle! Privet kha, Dam.

Hello ellbot.

2

Q: Verb "deny" + gerund difference

What is the difference between these phrases and are they written correctly? The man denied stealing the camera. The man denied having stolen the camera. And, is it correctly to say the following way?: 3. The man denied having been stealing for the third camera. (perfect-continuous) thanks...

gerunds

This seems to be interesting.

Damkerng T.

19:28

@V.V. Sawasdee khrap!

I think Exam English requires have stolen, but real English doesn't, and stealing would be more common, IMO.

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