Language Overflow

12:56 AM

> If you know football really well, then you could probably explain it to a non-fan. Explaining makes things clearer. A lot of teaching is explaining — telling how something works.

> (marker.to/GwLeLi) via: ell.stackexchange.com/q/76242/3281

I think the use of could is a little weird.

I think I'd use (then) you may be able to explain ...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

7:35 AM

Hmm, @Colleen you do have a point. I'll think more about this. — Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. 16 secs ago

Damkerng T.

@Nihilist_Frost That's a new hat!

ABcDexter

hello fellow Homo sapiens.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@ABcDexter Hullo! Welcome to LO!

Damkerng T.

Hello!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. I have a new hat too.

I still don't have it on since it's in the queue.

Damkerng T.

7:40 AM

@Nihilist_Frost Oh, sorry! I mistook another user for you.

ABcDexter

How are you @Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@ABcDexter BTW I'm a molecule, not a hoomin.

ABcDexter

And what about the hats??

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Thanks, I'm doing great!

Damkerng T.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. You're Marman now. :D

ABcDexter

7:40 AM

Molecule, what's your chemical composition?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. Have a star.

@ABcDexter C20H20

Dodecahedrane

Dodecahedrane is a chemical compound (C20H20) first synthesised by Leo Paquette of Ohio State University in 1982, primarily for the "aesthetically pleasing symmetry of the dodecahedral framework". In this molecule, each vertex is a carbon atom that bonds to three neighbouring carbon atoms. The 108° angle of each regular pentagon is close to the ideal bond angle of 109.5° for an sp3 hybridised atom. Each carbon atom is bonded to a hydrogen atom as well. The molecule, like fullerene, has Ih symmetry, evidenced by its proton NMR spectrum in which all hydrogen atoms appear at a single chemical shift...

Damkerng T.

It's curious how the system works. It just notified me of this:

@Josh61 I wrote a meta post on this, don't you know? meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/7321/… No one official supported me, everyone said it wasn't an answer, well it is now. The only editing I've done is added my commentary, the citations and the order of the comments is the same. — Mari-Lou A 3 mins ago

But I'm not Josh61!

ABcDexter

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Interesting...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. Josh didn't get pinged. You did since you're the last commenter on that answer and the commenter of that comment is the OP.

Damkerng T.

Strange! (way to implement notification)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

7:44 AM

Oh, Josh commented.

That means he has a deleted comment there.

ABcDexter

8:03 AM

Ok, bye everyone :-)

Damkerng T.

Have a good day! o/

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Ta.

1

A: Question tag with indefinite pronoun

Most indefinite pronouns (everybody, everything, nothing, nobody etc.) are singular; hence subject–verb agreement requires that we use a singular verb with them, and other pronouns pertaining to them must be singular. So why "they" in Everybody can not be intelligent, can they? The answer i...

An answer aiming for a hat, @Dam. :P

Hah!

hey. :3

Yellow

8:06 AM

for the first time, i don't come here with a doubt

:3

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. (づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ for the upboat.

I get one other upboat and an accept and I'll get a hat.

Damkerng T.

My pleasure!

lekon chekon

so, what're you fine lads up to this time of the day? :3

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Earning hats.

Damkerng T.

I just came in to browse through new questions on the main site. :D

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

8:08 AM

And tomorrow I have a final exam . . .

lekon chekon

on what?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

History.

lekon chekon

xD

._.) xD i haven't studied that in the past 3 years.

world history is kind of interesting.
the older the time it is that we're talking about, the more interesting i find it. :3

time is*

minus the it. ._.

i guess. ._.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Yeah.

No need for dumb 'it'.

lekon chekon

._.) do i not feel silly now. .-.

learning english as a foreign language isn't as easy as i thought it'd be. ._.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

8:15 AM

Not if you capitalize your i's.

lekon chekon

are you guys into movies?

xD

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I haven't been able to watch many since this semester has started.

Aug 30 at 12:32, by StoneyB

Hey, man, I'm still trying to learn English!

lekon chekon

you're in college? .-.

cooollll. :3

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Well that system of education is pretty non-existent so I still mix stuff up.

We just call it high school.

lekon chekon

.-. that makes you not all that much older to me. :3

i wish people our age played chess more often, or at least knew how to play it.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

8:25 AM

@lekonchekon Aren't you older than me?

lekon chekon

._. i'm 19.

how old are you? .-.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

._. I'm 16.

lekon chekon

._.) i didn't really see that coming. xD

you must take your education quite seriously. .-.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I do? Haha

lekon chekon

help me out with something here.

What if a time came when wanted to put up an account on facebook.

What if a time comes when she wants to put up an account on facebook.

.-. i usually see people use "what if i told you", so i was wondering if one's to keep everything in the past.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

8:30 AM

@lekonchekon The second sentence is pretty natural to my ears.

lekon chekon

i know. .-.
it sounds fine to me as well.
:3

what about the first one?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

You need to put something after "when" there.

lekon chekon

she. i missed out on the she. ._.

they mean the same right?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I must not comment on that but yes IMO. You should wait for when @Snailsensei comes.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I like the sound of Snailsensei! (ping @snailboat :-)

lekon chekon

8:39 AM

i'm gonna have to head over to a friend's place in about 10 minutes. .-.

Damkerng T.

Have fun!

lekon chekon

i don't think she'll get here in time. xD
I'll talk to her when she's here. :3

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. I did ping her.

Damkerng T.

Oh, did you?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I used a soft hyphen between "Snail" and "sensei". >:)

Damkerng T.

8:50 AM

Ahh -- you little Marman! :P

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

2

Q: what's the exact meaning of "I don't like it very much?"

I don't like it very much Here comes 2 possible understandings 1.I hate it very much. 2.Though I do not like it very much, I like it a little. Which one is right?

Negation and implicature! (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

Damkerng T.

Aye.

Let's see if I can ping @J.R... Hmm... I can't.

I just thought that he and @snailboat might want to answer this question: How to know that in 'need to take a x', an 'x' does not serve as a noun?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

9:05 AM

It's been some time since I last read a @Snail answer.

Chenmunka has the secret hat I was talking about on @Dam.

Damkerng T.

Oh, neat!

Who'd you think will win in a verbal presentation dual, between a singer and a standup comedian?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. Hmm, lemme think.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... a standup comedian is not quite right, I think he's an actor.

Me watching an old season of The Celebrity Apprentices

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

The chat gang™ is looking forward to an answer from Snailboat. — Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. 33 secs ago

@DamkerngT. @JimR is a batman at best.

Damkerng T.

Oh, we're a gang now?!

It has a bad ring to it.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

9:15 AM

Yeah. We close bad questions. (/¯◡ ‿ ◡)/¯ ~ ┻━┻

Damkerng T.

LOL

CopperKettle

9:41 AM

Not weird at all! have put is a participle form of 'put'. You have done something to make ice. So, you have put water. Without 'have', it would be more a universal truth. You put water in the freezer to make ice Something like - 'You study Computer Science to become a programmer', 'You load a gun to shoot it'. The moment you put 'have', it becomes an event that you experience - I have studied computer science, I have loaded the gun to shot...and so on. — Maulik V ♦ 55 mins ago

"I put the water in the freezer" a universal truth, @Maulik? That's news to me. (0:

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@CopperKettle Too much bold.

Yeah . . . @JimR is the only guy that's @JimR.

Now please remove the removeds to the place where removeds go.

Damkerng T.

But grammar-wise, I think reading "I put the water in the freezer" as a universal truth is quite hard!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I find the pronunciation of "removeds" unpleasant.

@DamkerngT. No no, I asked a Neptunian guy the other day. He said it's universal.

Something like IUPAC's rules.

Damkerng T.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Wasn't it already good enough?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. If it were me I would've. Playing with buttons is fun.

Damkerng T.

9:46 AM

Oh, J.R. just posted his answer! -- reading...

Damkerng T.

10:08 AM

Filler: "In linguistics, a filler is a sound or word that is spoken in conversation by one participant to signal to others that he/she has paused to think but has not yet finished speaking." In Russian, we call them slova-parasity, or "parasitic words*. So it was, like, very easy: I just opened the Wikipedia page in Russian, then, you know, used the interwiki. (0: — CopperKettle 3 mins ago

Parasitic words! Poor thing! :P

I think we rely on it almost all the time.

Ah, I meant formulaic language, not just fillers.

Hmm... I think we had a Filler question before.

It seems like there is no real duplicate question.

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. Yep, but that's, like, that's they are called in Russian, you know. (0:

Damkerng T.

LOL

CopperKettle

(0:

CopperKettle

10:27 AM

P.S. By the way, I've just read your question on disfluency, and Snailboat mentions filler in her answer there.. P.P.S. And others mention it too. — CopperKettle 2 mins ago

Strange question, then.

Anonymous

10:51 AM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. /vdz/ is hard to say in removeds!

Anonymous

I don't recall claiming that piss isn't a noun in the light verb construction take a piss. I remember saying quite the opposite, in fact!

CopperKettle

@snailboat you can pronounce it vedz

Good afternoon, Snails!

Anonymous

Yeah, the first thing I tried was inserting an epenthetic schwa to break up the cluster :-)

3

Anonymous

Good morning!

Damkerng T.

Siri doesn't understand me when I pronounce "deserves" as "deservuhs" (which I tend to do).

CopperKettle

10:57 AM

Yes, like in "Beloved, thou hast brought me many flowers \ Plucked in the garden, all the summer through" -- The rhythm does not work without the schwa

Anonymous

I think removeds should probably be pronounced without epenthesis, though.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. O.o

We should coin words with impossible clusters. (/¯◡ ‿ ◡)/¯ ~ ┻━┻

Cravingeds

CopperKettle

(The word "prst", which is Czech for "finger", has an epenthetic schwa between the "p" and the "r" and is pronounced "purrst".)

Damkerng T.

I believe the fat man with a fat book

Anonymous

I think I use more of a schwi in belovéd

Damkerng T.

10:59 AM

See, that's what Siri does. She replaced my 'deserves' with 'with'!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Oh. I have 66 spam mails sent to me that I haven't read. Guess it's mission accomplished for the spammers.

CopperKettle

@snailboat nice! So it's "ee"

Damkerng T.

Oh, and she heard my "that a" as "the", too, this time!

Anonymous

I'll talk more about pronunciation when I'm at a computer so I can use proper IPA

CopperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

11:01 AM

Wait, is a schwi real?!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Then we'll be doomed.

Yes I think.

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. Yes, just like Santa Claus (or whomether his alternative is in Persia) (0:

Damkerng T.

Haha!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@CopperKettle Ahmedinejad?

CopperKettle

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. (0: I remember that name, and even his face!

Anonymous

11:03 AM

Try saying it ɪd or ɨd

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Guys guys guys listen. I wanted to thanks for this spammer for giving me free flags.

You should say some thanks too @Snail @Cop @Dam ^^^

CopperKettle

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. free flags?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I mean go and flag it already.

Damkerng T.

Flagged and voted to delete!

CopperKettle

@snailboat you mean "belovɨd"? That sounds like the Russian ы

Anonymous

11:06 AM

Yes

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

BTW I'm going to write some meta this time that'll prolly make some drama, prolly not.

Anonymous

Umm

CopperKettle

How to Pronounce Beloved

►

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I'm gonna basically write "What comments should I flag?"

Anonymous

Again I'll have to wait until I'm at a computer to respond more effectively

CopperKettle

11:07 AM

(that video voice clearly does not say id, but closer to ed)

Anonymous

I protected that question

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@snailboat Thanks in advantage

CopperKettle

in advance (0:

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@CopperKettle A reference to this:

213

Q: No Thanks, Damn It!

For a while this year, I was on a crusade, editing posts to remove "Thanks". But there were far too many of those posts. So I started to remove "Thanks in advance". But there were too many of those. So I started to remove "Thanks in advanced", which in addition to being inappropriate for Stack...

discussion clean-up

CopperKettle

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. LOL

BBL (0:

Damkerng T.

11:12 AM

"Thanks in advantage"!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Wow look at that rep. 9666.

Now I wanna gain just another 333.

Damkerng T.

> Can we please clean those up before the English language changes out from under us?
Thx 4 ur hlp.

<3 that

Thanks in advantage for editing the entire post. — Hans Passant Mar 17 at 16:05

Meta is fun, eh?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. Yeah. Why do you think I have 50 answers on meta.chem and 50 answers on the main site?

Damkerng T.

You wrote "I am just confused about this word". Did you mean "student" or "indefinite pronoun" when you wrote "this word"? — Damkerng T. 31 secs ago

trying to untangle it...

Anonymous

11:27 AM

We might ask ourselves what traits pronouns have in common and how they differ from common nouns and proper nouns.

Damkerng T.

But indefinite pronouns can also be males or females. The word "student"can be either male or female, so sir why can't we call it the indefinite pronoun? — user124234 1 hour ago

Anonymous

And then ask which of these traits student has.

Damkerng T.

It's a Quack Like a Duck reasoning!

@snailboat It's so fundamental that it's so difficult!

CopperKettle

Gut bacteria make pomegranate metabolites that may protect against Alzheimer's disease -- lucky Persians!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@CopperKettle ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

Araucaria

11:33 AM

1

Q: Why must an English learners should know Grammar first?

Why must everyone understand Grammar first before learning to speak?

grammar american-english british-english indian-english

Let's open this!

Damkerng T.

I think I've voted on that one already.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Argh is it not open yet?

Damkerng T.

It is! It is!

Araucaria

Thanks guys! (Can't answer it now am teaching in a sec) But you guys could!

Don't know if 'twas one of you, but happened in the last thirty secs!

See you later folks!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

\o

CopperKettle

11:37 AM

Bye!

Damkerng T.

o/

CopperKettle

"An Englishman's way of speaking absolutely classifies him,
The moment he talks he makes some other Englishman despise him."

Damkerng T.

12:00 PM

8

A: Is the interrogative structure "Is X to do with Y" grammatical?

I don't think it's relevant that OP frames the question around an interrogative construction. Grammatically, it's no different to: [this] is to do with [that] ...which has tens of millions of (mostly relevant) instances in print. From Macmillan Dictionary: have (something/anything) to d...

Nice answer spotted.

CopperKettle

12:15 PM

"Before starting an observation of a typical deep sky object, it could be useful to decide will be the sky friendly to the observer tonight or not." -- looks like a violation of the Penthouse Principle

"Before starting an observation of a typical deep sky object, it could be useful to decide will the sky be friendly to the observer tonight or not." -- that's more like it, but it still looks un-English

Damkerng T.

"Before starting an observation of a typical deep sky object, it could be useful to decide whether the sky will be friendly to the observer tonight or not." -- I think I'd go with this.

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. Yes! I would say it this way too. I wonder whether the fronting of will is wrong grammatically. (will the sky be friendly)

Damkerng T.

It sounded off to me, probably ungrammatical.

CopperKettle

It's an interrogative content clause. Theoretically we can use it as object.. hm.

Damkerng T.

"Before starting an observation of a typical deep sky object, it could be useful to decide, will the sky be friendly to the observer tonight or not?" -- A possible workaround.

CopperKettle

12:19 PM

"will the sky be friendly" is still an inversion of Subject and Verb, I guess, and that's why it sounds off.

Damkerng T.

nods

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. nods Thanks!

Damkerng T.

Anytime!

StoneyB

@CopperKettle This is not uncommon in speech, though deprecated in writing. If you repoint it it is grammatical: It could be useful to decide "Will the sky be friendly?"

Think of it as It could be useful to ask ourselves the question "Will the sky be friendly?"

Damkerng T.

Hi, @StoneyB!

Anonymous

12:27 PM

@CopperKettle @DamkerngT. web.mit.edu/flemming/www/paper/rosasroses.pdf

Damkerng T.

Thanks!

Anonymous

Schwa and schwi! :-)

Damkerng T.

LOL

> mid reduced vowels are generally only found in stem-final position

A-ha!

Anonymous

Sometimes ɚ is called schwar.

Anonymous

And ɝ schwer.

Damkerng T.

12:31 PM

Funny names!

Anonymous

There's a whole schw* family!

Damkerng T.

Schwamily (TM)!

Anonymous

None of those names are common except schwa, though.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... does the bar-i have its own Unicode character?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. Of course it does.

Damkerng T.

12:33 PM

I thought it could be an i + a bar.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

No it doesn't work that way.

Anonymous

Yes, it's U+0268

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Although @TCh may write some ~~code~~ magic spells and make it happen.

CopperKettle

@StoneyB Thanks!

@snailboat Thanks! So some probably render it as barred-I, while others prefer to pronounce a schwa. (0:

Damkerng T.

Aww... Alt+0268 doesn't work on my PC.

Anonymous

12:36 PM

You can use westonruter.github.io/ipa-chart/keyboard

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. Those never work in my PC either.

Anonymous

Wait, 268 is the codepoint in hex.

Anonymous

Can you type Alt+616?

Damkerng T.

h <-- My Alt+616

Anonymous

D'oh!

CopperKettle

12:38 PM

@snailboat Sounds like the name of a German cartoon. (0: "Schwa und Schwi"

Damkerng T.

IPA quickie: ɨɨɨ

Oh, that gave me an idea...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Lemme see.

~~iii~~

Pfft.

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

---*iii*---

Anonymous

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Doesn't look as nice :-(

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@snailboat Wait for it.

~~iii~~

CopperKettle

h

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

12:40 PM

@CopperKettle h to you too.

CopperKettle

Ў

oops

I was trying out the ALT 0616 combo

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

. . . Now that's what I'm talking about!

40 secs ago, by Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

~~iii~~

Damkerng T.

Here are all IPA quickies you may need: pbmʙɸβɱⱱfvʋθðtdnrɾszɬɮɹlʃʒʈɖɳɽʂʐɻɭcɟɲçʝjʎkɡŋxɣɰʟqɢɴʀχʁħʕʔhɦʘǀǃǂǁɓɗʄɠʛʼpʼtʼkʼsʼiy‌ɪʏeøɛœæaɶɨʉɘɵəɜɞɐɯuʊɤoʌɔɑɒʍwɥʜʢʡɕʑɺɧʃxk͡pt͜s ͡ ͜ ˈ ˌ ˌfoʊnəˈtɪʃən ː eː ˑ eˑ ̆ ĕ |‖.‿ɹi.æktŋ̊ ̥n̥d̥ ̬s̬t̬ ʰtʰdʰ ̹ɔ̹ ̜ɔ̜ ̟u̟ ̠e̠ ̈ë ̽e̽ ̩n̩ ̯e̯ ˞ɚa˞ ̤b̤a̤ ̰b̰a̰ ̼t̼d̼ ʷtʷdʷ ʲtʲdʲ ˠtˠdˠ ˤtˤdˤ ̴ɫ ̝e̝ɹ̝ ̞e̞β̞ ̘e̘ ̙e̙ ̪t̪d̪ ̺t̺d̺ ̻t̻d̻ ̃ẽ ⁿdⁿ ˡdˡ ̚d̚ ̋ ˥ ́ ˦ ̄ ˧ ̀ ˨ ̏ ˩ ↓ ↑ ̌ ˩˥ ̂ ˥˩ ᷄ ˦˥ ᷅ ˩˨ ᷈ ˧˦˧ ↗ ↘

StoneyB

@DamkerngT. Hi, DT .. can't stop now, on my way to <groan>work</groan>.

Damkerng T.

Got it!

Anonymous

12:47 PM

I just use the IPA keyboard, 'cause that way they're arranged conceptually and you can find the symbol you want right away instead of looking through a list.

Damkerng T.

I think IPA keyboard would be better. The quickies are just my make-shift IPA keyboard. :D

(Like I can type anything with it!)

CopperKettle

Schwi-Schwa-Schweinehund

It's even on Amazon! (0:

Damkerng T.

͡tɕʰ

Success!

@CopperKettle Hah!

CopperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

Oh, right! I remember that word in German.

It's in Das Buch

:P

CopperKettle

12:54 PM

I never once thought German kids loved English phonetics so much. But judging by Schweinehund, they don't really.

@DamkerngT. In the book?

Damkerng T.

Yup! Its web page has a section named Das Buch. :D

CopperKettle

"Nevertheless, a typical test is supposed to start with making sure the Milky Way has good visibility. " or is it "has a good visibility"?

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I'm gonna pass on this one. (Though my intuition says good visibility should be fine.)

Anonymous

People don't usually say a visibility.

CopperKettle

(0:

Thanks, Snails!

The original was " Nevertheless, the starting point of a typical test supposed to be good visibility of the Milky Way."

Damkerng T.

12:58 PM

Somehow it doesn't quite make sense. Perhaps it works in its context.

Anonymous

I wouldn't be able to correct that sentence without enough context to know what specifically it meant.

CopperKettle

It's a text at lang-8

Anonymous

You could always go for a plain ol' adjective: . . . that the Milky Way is clearly visible

Anonymous

If it made sense in the rest of the sentence and in context.

Anonymous

Aww, you're using the red kettle on Lang-8 :-)

Damkerng T.

1:11 PM

Wondering of the Day: Which would a wig maker use more often: 'hair' or 'hairs'?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. hairz

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

1:27 PM

Please help us write a FAQ for comment flagging.

@Dam ^^^ please pin.

Damkerng T.

Ahh... ages is /eɪdʒɨz/

I seem to tend to pronounce it as /eɪdʒəz/.

Anonymous

Most of the time the exact quality of the reduced vowel is hard to determine, and of course this is because it's reduced! Reduced vowels have a very short duration.

Anonymous

And in most cases we don't really distinguish different kinds of reduced vowels from one another.

Anonymous

But!

Anonymous

I would write /ɪz/ or /ɨz/ for the regular plural suffix on ages.

Damkerng T.

1:39 PM

Not /əz/?

Anonymous

If it is reduced, it'll still probably have a somewhat /ɪ/-like quality.

Damkerng T.

nods

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. You do pronounce it that way, you just don't notice.

Damkerng T.

I think I can feel the difference. It must be related to my first language.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Nov 3 at 11:24, by tchrist

It is well documented that some people delude themselves into believing they pronounce prints and prince differently even though spectrographs prove they do not.

Anonymous

1:42 PM

Well, /əz/ is also possible, but that depends on what variety of English you speak.

Anonymous

Prints and prince may be distinct.

Anonymous

They are generally not, though.

Damkerng T.

It tends to sound more like /əz/ rather than /ɨz/ when the plural suffix (-s or -es) is added to -g, -ge, -sh, -ch, etc.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Today I'm just getting random upvotes around the network.

Anonymous

It's never /əs/.

Damkerng T.

1:44 PM

Oh, right! I was thinking too much!

Anonymous

It might sound like it to you in some situations, but that's a phonetic phenomenon. It's still /z/ phonologically.

Damkerng T.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Good for you! :D

Anonymous

The alveolar stops /t/ and /d/ are reduced or disappear between two other consonants.

Anonymous

(A Course in Phonetics, 6th ed., Ladefoged & Johnson, p.75)

Damkerng T.

I just sneezed, twice! (Anyone gossiping me?)

Anonymous

1:46 PM

If they aren't present, [t] and [d] may be inserted between a pair of homorganic consonants, most commonly with [t] but occasionally with [d].

Anonymous

(Stop epenthesis in English, Fourakis & Port 1986)

Anonymous

So in prints, the /t/ may be reduced or disappear; and in prince, a [t] may be inserted.

2

Anonymous

If we take a bunch of recordings of each word, we may be able to find that, on average, there are differences between the two.

Damkerng T.

The reduction wasn't a surprise, but the insertion is!

Anonymous

But the pronunciations of the two overlap, and we can't distinguish them from one another.

Anonymous

1:48 PM

That is, we don't have any reliable cues to distinguish them from one another, even if we don't always say them identically in practice.

Anonymous

So we can call it a neutralization.

Anonymous

The reason we think we can distinguish the two is most likely orthography.

Damkerng T.

I thought that in prints most people close their glottals, but they don't in prince.

Anonymous

In other words, we let spelling fool us into thinking we pronounce things differently than we actually do!

Anonymous

That's why so many people who don't pronounce a /t/ in tsunami claim they do :-)

Anonymous

1:51 PM

@DamkerngT. Japan has that same superstition!

Damkerng T.

Oh!

Anonymous

I would say gossiping about you

Damkerng T.

Thanks for a better phrase!

Anonymous

Actually, the t is often partially present phonetically in words like prints.

Anonymous

The tip of the tongue might go exactly where you're expecting.

Anonymous

1:59 PM

Or it might go part of the way there.

Anonymous

But that can turn out to be entirely inaudible!

Anonymous

There's more often an articulatory difference than an auditory difference.

Anonymous

Do I need to define these terms?

Damkerng T.

I guess not. :D

Anonymous

Oh, good :-)

Damkerng T.

2:01 PM

I wonder if I can hear whether the glottal is closed or not.

Anonymous

You can't necessarily hear the glottis closing if the gesture is overlapped by another articulation.

Damkerng T.

nods -- And it's usually just very, very short!

I just posted this!

> Who does better between an adult and a 4-year-old if they are assigned to remember the lyrics of a foreign song in a couple hours?

Anonymous

Wow, that proposal needs a lot of question upvotes in the next six weeks. Will it make it?

Damkerng T.

I doubt that. :D

When is the deadline for Korean Area 51 again?

Anonymous

About half a year.

Anonymous

2:14 PM

110

Korean Language

Proposed Q&A site for linguists, teachers and students of the Korean language.

Currently in commitment.

Anonymous

Anyone who's interested, please commit! :-)

Damkerng T.

:D

Hanaa

2:43 PM

Hello every one

Hello @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

Hi!

Nihilist_Frost

2:59 PM

I realized I have trouble pronouncing "helicopter".

I have problems with its T

Instead of a stop, I end up with an alveolar non-sibilant fricative

@DamkerngT. Howdy!

Howdy!

how are you all ?

I can't say for others, bur I think we're okay. :-)

Crazy Ninja

:)

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