The Nineteenth Byte

Wheat Wizard

05:14

Until just now I thought the "created with Lumnispire" Vyxal explanations were 100% auto-generated based on the docs. I was refusing to upvote any of these answers on principle, because I was annoyed with how useless these auto-generated explanations were. Turns out it's just hard to explain code that's to someone that doesn't understand the language.

lyxal

The funny thing is that I made it in response to someone asking for an auto explainer based on the docs

in Vyxal, Jun 23, 2023 at 13:26, by lyxal

So instead of making a flag that autogenerates explanations, I figured I'd make a website for creating templates

It's language agnostic too

emanresu A

05:47

hence why i tend to include an explanation of any clever algorithmic parts outside of the SBCS bit

lyxal

Luminespire has support for that too. It's just a formatting assistant

No automatic "what does this thing" do at all. Only the spacing is automated

You can have lines with just a comment if you need

You can also select which characters are on each line

It doesn't have to be linear nor one character per line

Wheat Wizard

Yeah. It's funny though the way it often gets used is one character per line, explaining what that character does.

lyxal

Programmers can account for many things except for the problem that exists between the keyboard and the chair :p

mousetail 'he-him'

09:21

@Simd There was some confusion on your post. If you are on Linux or Mac, multiprocessing will fork every process. So anything created before doesn't need to be serialized. Only objects that need to be send back and forth after the fork, like the function arguments or return value, need to be pickled

On Windows, instead of forking, it will import your python file as a module. So any global objects will just be recreated instead of serialized. Any side effects related to this will happen twice or more

That's why if __name__ == "__main__" is required to use multiprocessing on windows

Themoonisacheese

@mousetail'he-him' ...what?

(i mean i guess that's as good of a way as any to do this)

but what the fuck

mousetail 'he-him'

@Themoonisacheese If you are wondering "Does this ever go wrong?" the answer is "all the time"

Themoonisacheese

yeah i can see why like immediately

this is exactly the type of nerd shit i am into how did i not know this

mousetail 'he-him'

Hopefully when the GIL is deleted we can finally launch the entire multiprocessing module into the sun

New Posts

09:44

0

Q: Card-Jitsu Part 1: Find all winning sets of three cards

Card-Jitsu was a mini card-game based on Rock, Paper, Scissors available on the children MMO game Club Penguin. I first wrote a challenge where you needed to implement a clone of this game, but I figured that the winning conditions alone were complex enough to deserve their own challenge as a min...

lyxal

Takes me back to when I used to collect irl card jitsu cards

Had a decent collection too

And ofc that corresponded to my online collection from all the reward codes

Themoonisacheese

when i was 7 i wanted to register to club penguin but i read the terms and conditions and it said if you're a minor you need parental approval so i asked my mom and she said no

so i didn't register to club penguin

lyxal

Ever at all?

Themoonisacheese

i did at like 13 but it was way too late

not that i would have understood much given my lack of english skills before that point

mousetail 'he-him'

Club penguin was so good

Especially the secret agent missions

lyxal

09:57

ikr

Themoonisacheese

@Themoonisacheese i think this really should have cemented an autism diagnosis but what can you do

lyxal

Back in my day you needed to pass the agent test in the phone facility to get epf membership

After a while they gave it out to just anyone lol

mousetail 'he-him'

I played before the EPF was a thing

lyxal

I started in 2011 I think so apparently 1 year after

Lucky playing before then

mousetail 'he-him'

At first the secret agency was presented as people responsible for reporting trolls and other rule breaking people. Later it had the missions. At some point they removed the spiel about agents being moderators kinda

Themoonisacheese

09:59

i mean on paper that's a pretty good idea

until you realise that you're asking like 9 year olds to do this

speaking of missed opportunities for an autism disagnosis

mousetail 'he-him'

The chat banned a lot of "bad" words (obviously). So a weird code developed where certain words woudl stand for certain swears. The code words where nothing like the swears and it was really non-obvious which they stood for. People would tell new people "Say X word" and then laugh when the new person did.

Themoonisacheese

the other day i was going through old files and i found a psych assessment my mom had me do at age 12, and it's actually insane how much of it overlaps with the literal DSM-5 symptoms of ASD and then ends with "nothing's wrong :)"

mousetail 'he-him'

At least you know now

Did you ever get an official diagnosis?

Themoonisacheese

no

mousetail 'he-him'

Thinking of persuing one? It doesn't really change that much

Themoonisacheese

10:05

that fuckass psych assessment literally includes a verbatim quote of smol Eli, age 12, saying "I do not see anything, this is just ink." after being presented a rorschach test

@mousetail'he-him' yeah that's on the cards but that's a lot of effort for not much

mousetail 'he-him'

Eli is correct, it is ink

I think it's safe to say if you are into code golf you must be on the spectrum

Themoonisacheese

i'll do it eventually but i don't see the value yet and there's much more pressing matters about my health that i'm also ignoring

> Personally, it took me finding codegolf.SE, which I grew attached to because I am autistic

89

A: User activation: Learnings and opportunities

I'd like to share my perspective as a newly "activated" user: First as a student and then as a very junior developer and sysadmin, I have always enjoyed SE (SO, superuser and serverfault, mostly) as a source of solutions. I did not feel confident I was competent enough to provide my answers to an...

posted on 9/11 btw

lyxal

Sir, a second user has joined the code golf

mousetail 'he-him'

I wonder if it's possible to bribe APA so we can get the contact details of every child diagnosed so we can send them a flyer about Code Golf

Themoonisacheese

6

hyperneutrino

10:23

@mousetail'he-him' i've been told by literally more than half a dozen friends by now that i'm autistic and i guess + this now lol, i'm still not convinced but idk

@Themoonisacheese :despair: rip

mousetail 'he-him'

It's probably wise to be skeptical about the opinion of a random guy in the internet who doesn't know you personally

hyperneutrino

xD

Themoonisacheese

then again peer-reviewed autism is a thing ™

mousetail 'he-him'

Yes, but telepeerreviewed autism reduces it's accuracy significantly

hyperneutrino

@Themoonisacheese not wrong lmao. i find those kinda unsettling (i've never done one as a test i just have seen images, never done any psych eval for that matter unless i somehow forgor) like, i can see something beyond just the ink, but i rarely see "oh that's a <real life thing>" it just kinda looks like a single entity of that shape to me which can be creepy depending on the shape?? idk that's probably fairly normal

Themoonisacheese

10:28

i mean on their own these tests mean nothing

much like all of ASD symptoms, it's more of if there's a trend

hyperneutrino

right

i don't actually know what the rorschach (god that's hard to spell) test does tbh lol, i should look that up it's probably quite interesting

mousetail 'he-him'

I don't think it's considered useful anymore

Themoonisacheese

@hyperneutrino it's not exactly very hard science unfortunately, it has a lot to do with psychanalisys which is heavily dependent on the examiner

hyperneutrino

mm i see

makes sense tbh. well rip

Themoonisacheese

i mean it's still interesting to read about

the wiki article on homeopathy is fascinating

hyperneutrino

10:33

@Themoonisacheese can confirm it was a pretty interesting wikipedia read (at least the part i did read i got bored kinda fast but maybe that's cuz it's 5:30 AM)

@Themoonisacheese will check that out

Themoonisacheese

10:45

IMO any article that has "x is a pseudoscience [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]" deserves a read

mousetail 'he-him'

That's a lot of citations

Themoonisacheese

lyxal

11:48

@NewPosts I posted an answer because it'd be a wasted opportunity if I didn't lol

Weird Glyphs

12:54

Club Penguin, autism and pseudoscience... Everything's coming together at last!

lyxal

If I had a nickel for every piece of media I've seen today that's made a club penguin reference, I'd have two nickels

which isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice

mousetail 'he-him'

Is chat media?

lyxal

I ended up caving to the signs and played a club penguin clone :p

@mousetail'he-him' the question on main is

mousetail 'he-him'

Which clone? Is it any good?

lyxal

club penguin journey

Lacking some things though

Themoonisacheese

12:57

yes, i code golf:
C lub penguin
o tism
d eez nuts
e strogen

g ood meme 👍
o tism again
l yxal
f riendship :)

10

lyxal

1. No pizza minigame
2. No bean counter minigame
3. No immediately obvious way to join EPF/PSA

and some other missing stuff

mousetail 'he-him'

Do they have the fishing mini game at least?

lyxal

they do

+ some weird agar.io singleplayer type minigame

Weird Glyphs

Oh, you were playing a CPPS?

att

i never got into club penguin

what was so good about it

lyxal

12:58

cpjourney.net

Themoonisacheese

what a domain huh

lyxal

very unfortunate acronym for the original game too :p

att

💀

mousetail 'he-him'

I'd play it for nostalgia, not because the game design is super exceptional

lyxal

It's fine for nostalgia

Themoonisacheese

13:00

@att basically it was one of the first kid-friendly online reeal-time experiences

Weird Glyphs

I liked the social aspects of the game... as an adult. When I was a child, I thought this game was boring bc I talked to nearly no one back then.

Themoonisacheese

everything else bar habbo hotel was very much relatively single player games, with a forum attached and maybe one event a day was tangentially related to the wider multiplayer world

att

hmm

Themoonisacheese

and habbo was... a whole can of worms

Weird Glyphs

Still better than Habbo Hotel IMO

lyxal

13:02

~~Bin Weevels was the real good stuff~~

2

Themoonisacheese

see youtube.com/watch?v=hE6jxjKPNZQ

att

tbf i was weird though my big game as a kid was a space mmo

mousetail 'he-him'

Which one?

att

pardus

lyxal

@lyxal (memulous reference aside, it was certainly something when I tried it out a few years ago)

att

13:04

it's still around somehow pardus.at

Themoonisacheese

i think if i had discovered space station 13 as a child i would have gotten nuts over it

Sandbox Posts

15:03

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

[DRAFT] Contained poker hands code-golf Input: A 5-card poker hand Output: All hands contained within the input. If hand appears multiple times, only output once. order does not matter list of poker hands

Adám

Welcome to APL Monday. This one is deceptively simple – but do you understand how it works?

What does the following monadic array properties function compute when given any non-scalar array argument?

(0⊥⍴)

Themoonisacheese

15:32

@Adám i don't get it

i really tried but i can't figure out from whence ⊥ gets its RHS

(also that would make it output in base 0? wat)

Hello, World!

15:59

0

A: "Hello, World!"

RBFuck, 138 bytes Basically a subset of Ruby that doesn't contain letters or numbers in its source code. __=">:("=~/$/ _=__*__ $__=_*_ _=-~_ $_=_*_ $.=$_+~-~-_ $><<(""<<$__-~-_<<-~$_<<$.<<$.<<$_-~_<<", "<<$__+__+__<<$_-~_<<$_-~_+__<<$.<<$_)+?! Try it online!

att

rhs is from ⍴

RubenVerg

@Adám the poor man's ⊇

Themoonisacheese

then where does ⍴ get its LHS

Adám

@RubenVerg Yeah.

RubenVerg

there isn't one

Adám

16:01

@Themoonisacheese Just like in traditional mathematics, (f+g)(x) is f(x)+g(x) so too in APL (f g h)x is (f x)g(h x)

Themoonisacheese

i have come to the conclusion that i do not get APL

RubenVerg

annoying it doesn't do the right thing for scalars - I guess 0⊥1⍪⍴ works

Themoonisacheese

@Adám like, intuitively i get that, but that doesn't help me solve the riddle. at least i tried

Unrelated String

realll
I don't think I ever was on Club Penguin specifically but there was definitely some or another similar kid-oriented MMO I tried for a while and found, like, passively entertaining to explore but could not stick with because there wasn't much to do other than fail to socialize lmao

Adám

@Themoonisacheese OK, so one part missing is that f can be a constant, but that just makes it behave like a constant function. However, are you familiar with ⊥?

Themoonisacheese

16:09

i am not familiar with any APL symbol

Adám

Well, that complicates things :-)

Themoonisacheese

i read the docs though, so i'm aware it usually does base conversion

RubenVerg

(you do mention what it does above though)

Adám

⍴ is the shape, so lets say the argument is a 2-layer, 3-row, 4-column array.

Unrelated String

@hyperneutrino you didn't know already???

Adám

16:10

Then the result of ⍴ is 2 3 4

Unrelated String

🫂🫂🫂

Themoonisacheese

@Adám does ⍴ also do the reverse of itself?

because the docs mostly talk about that use case

Adám

Sort of. If given a left argument, it reshapes the data on its right into the shape on its left.

RubenVerg

are you looking at the docs for the dyad?

Themoonisacheese

ah

Adám

16:12

⊥ isn't really base conversion, but rather base evaluation. In the simplest case, it takes a list of numbers on its right, and a single number representing a base on its left, then evaluates the numbers on the right as if they were "digits" in the given base.

Themoonisacheese

that i gathered

Adám

10⊥1 2 3 gives 123 and 2⊥1 0 1 gives 5

OK, so 0⊥⍴ just evaluates a given shape as if it was digits in base 0.

It should be mentioned that ⊥ allows "digits" that are equal to or exceed the base. (They simply overflow to to the next higher digit place.)

Themoonisacheese

ok so i got that while we were talking but base 0 isn't a thing i was aware existed

RubenVerg

just sub in the number zero in the definition of base evaluation

Unrelated String

@Themoonisacheese I was "lucky" enough to get diagnosed autistic in kindergarten... which made my ADHD undiagnosable until the DSM-5 came out, and I did get my ASD re-evaluated in high school after the DSM-5 came out, but it was suuuuper bare bones and the report just has a one-off line about how my attention "was considered well sustained" which makes me think they were in fact prepared to test for ADHD too but just chose not to because I didn't visibly zone out during cognitive testing 💀

Adám

16:14

Right, just as (1,2,3)₁₀ is 1×10²+2×10¹+3×10⁰, so too with 0 instead of 10.

Themoonisacheese

does APL define 0^0?

Unrelated String

so is base 0 just the last digit

RubenVerg

yeah, or zero if the list is empty (which is why the scalar case is excluded)

Themoonisacheese

at best sum of digits except the last?

Unrelated String

ahaha

Themoonisacheese

16:16

wait why?

Unrelated String

@Adám Or "polynomial evaluation", even

Adám

Yes, that was its original purpose, in fact.

Unrelated String

:D

RubenVerg

@Themoonisacheese 123₂= (2×2×1)+(2×2)+(3) so 123₀ = (0×0×1)+(0×2)+3 = 3

Themoonisacheese

so it does define 0^0

Adám

16:17

yes, if power is just the product of a list of identical elements of the given length, then 0⁰ is the product over an empty list, i.e. 1.

Unrelated String

@Themoonisacheese so on that token, even if 0^0 isn't defined otherwise it's necessarily going to leave the last term alone because the base digits are really the coefficients of a polynomial

Themoonisacheese

ok that makes more sense

@UnrelatedString yes, that was only made obvious to me very recently

with codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/277060/…

@Adám is this commonly used in APL or is it jsut for the puzzle?

Adám

Quite common, I'd say.

RubenVerg

@Themoonisacheese "APL (Dyalog 20.0)" linking to Extended is funny

Adám

It really should link to Vision, but sadly no such on TIO.

RubenVerg

16:22

I suppose without transposed decode zero decode could make an interesting last at rank 1

Themoonisacheese

~~~also don't look at my terrible vyxal answer there ~~~

screw you chat that is the correct syntax and you know it

Adám

(wouldn't have worked anyway, because of the space)

att

@Themoonisacheese it's what makes sense for the zero power in polynomials but also tio.run/##SyzI0U2pTMzJT////1Hf1EdtEwy0DP7/BwA

Themoonisacheese

i mean it does make sense to do that in a praclang but until documented it's up in the air if that's what happens or not

Adám

@Themoonisacheese Documentation for R←X*Y literally says "If Y is zero, R is defined to be 1."

att

16:31

in a polynomial context the coefficient of the zero power is the value of the polynomial when evaluated at zero

New Posts

17:07

0

Q: The steps of sorting a stack of disks on three pegs

You have a Tower of Hanoi-esque set of 3 pegs. There is a stack of unsorted disks labelled from 1 to n (inclusive) on one of these pegs. The other two pegs are empty. The only move allowed is to move the top k disks from a peg A to another peg B, without changing the order of the moved disks. (Th...

code-golf sorting

user

17:58

@mousetail'he-him' I don't think it's safe to say that, it's niche but you don't need to have autism to be a nerd

Code golf isn't even that niche

@Themoonisacheese oof, that sucks

But it's also kinda hilarious

mousetail 'he-him'

@user Code golf isn't just any nerd hobby

user

My parents took me to a psychologist when I was a kid because of some minor attention issues I had, and I found that the psychologist made some suggestions on the report to help me be less bored and stressed out, and my parents heeded literally none of the suggestions because my grades were good enough

@mousetail'he-him' wdym?

mousetail 'he-him'

Programming is already a field with a high percentage of spectrumers. Recreative even more. Code golf is the even more nerdy subset of that

I exaggerated a bit. I'm sure non-autistic code golfers exist but I imagine that's less than 20-10% or so

user

18:22

I'm not sure I agree with how lose those numbers are but I see what you're saying

Would be interesting to do a survey

Weird Glyphs

@user A survey would be interesting, although it will be hard to have accurate numbers

But yeah, Code Golf isn't really niche, if you know about esoteric languages, you know about Code Golf

(not entirely true, but I think it's safe to assume that)

mousetail 'he-him'

18:37

I don't think that's a fair assumption, a lot of programmers know of brainfuck and maybe a few of the other mainstream esolangs. But very few people have even heard of code golf

Weird Glyphs

19:11

@mousetail'he-him' What I said was based on anecdotal evidence from other programmers I was able to talk to during my years as a programming student, this is not a guarantee, but I wanted to share my point of view just in case it was helpful

mousetail 'he-him'

What I said is too, out perspectives are equally valid and neither of them is likely representative

Weird Glyphs

Yeah, but we might get closer to the truth by sharing our perpectives... Not by much, but it's still useful to know

att

23:44

i think i found code golf from ioccc first

but don't remember where i got to ioccc from

lyxal

my descent into code golf came from StackOverflow and the HNQ list. Very dangerous list that HNQ

ATaco

Me finding WorldBuilding.se

lyxal

although tbf my first encounter with making an esolang/programming language was actually in 2013 on Scratch when I decided for whatever reason to just do it for no good reason. Just for fun I guess

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