The Nineteenth Byte

Themoonisacheese

13:00

yea

Ginger

amazing

I will use this power only for good

Themoonisacheese

x: doubt

rydwolf

does the lhs or rhs control the behavior of those?

Ginger

they're functions

isinstance(thing, type)

Themoonisacheese

yeah internally they're operators

cmp(self,other)

Ginger

13:01

that calls type.__instancecheck__

rydwolf

ah so the rhs

Themoonisacheese

can you override values of literals in python?

because that's a thing in java

Ginger

with ctypes, yes :3

Themoonisacheese

fantastic

Ginger

I love that generic type hints are implemented with __class_getitem__

rydwolf

13:02

could you do some weird multiple inheritance stuff with that (the instanceof stuff)?

Ginger

list[int] looks like accessor syntax, because it is accessor syntax

@rydwolf that's exactly what it's for

rydwolf

ah

Ginger

(sort of)

incidentally, a metaclass has the ability to modify the namespace of a class body before it's executed with __prepare__

which means you can do all sorts of fun DSL-adjacent shenanigans

lyxal

@rydwolf back in my day, we fine tuned temperature and frequency penalty

nowadays, it's all pre-set jailbreak detection bs

Themoonisacheese

real

you can't even threaten chatgpt that you will kill puppies if it doesn't comply

rydwolf

13:16

I like how rapidly LLMs went from a fascinating new frontier to just another useless scammy buzzword thing that helps people cheat on homework and does very little else

Themoonisacheese

at least it's moderately useful

unlike crypto

rydwolf

I mean, crypto is moderately useful too, if you need to do illegal online gambling or buy large amounts of drugs

Themoonisacheese

fair enough

but have you considered that we could simply be burning GPU cycles for no reason at all?

that seems more efficient to me tbh

rydwolf

between LLMs and crypto though, only one has been artificially constrained not to output joe biden erotic fanfic

so there's that to take into consideration

lyxal

ugh the 4 is slightly misaligned

rydwolf

13:19

@Themoonisacheese i mean yeah proof of work is stupid but aren't lots of the big ones PoS now?

Themoonisacheese

@rydwolf damn you're right

shush lyxal

rydwolf

just googled "is ethernet proof of stake" lol

Themoonisacheese

i mean

rydwolf

both start with ether tbf

Themoonisacheese

on a technicality the checksums on ethernet frames are proof of work?

@rydwolf nono i meant a possibility open to us right now is a brand new business venture of straight up burning GPU cycles for no reason at all

because apparently all buzzwords come back to that so we might as well go to the source

rydwolf

13:22

actually yeah you're right

we need a good name for it though

Dynamic Compute Actualization

lyxal

Decentralised Thermostatic Adjustment

Themoonisacheese

Compute Big Tunnel

Ginger

well, it works

rydwolf

Melting@home

Ginger

from types import FunctionType
from typing import Self
import inspect

class Match(type):
    def __new__(self: Self, name: str, bases: tuple, namespace: dict[str, any], thing: any):
        for member in namespace.values():
            if isinstance(member, FunctionType):
                signature = inspect.signature(member)
                assert len(signature.parameters) == 1, "One parameter expected for a case"
                if list(signature.parameters.values())[0].annotation == thing:
                    return member(thing)

5

rydwolf

13:24

this is beautiful

Themoonisacheese

i'm struggling to parse what it does

lyxal

Themoonisacheese

graphical expenditure is a nice name for ^^^^^

Bbrk24

@Ginger I can’t brew install pipx because I have something else that already depends on a conflicting version of openssl

Ginger

what

ಠ_ಠ

ooooookay, try pip install pipx

Themoonisacheese

13:26

won't work

rydwolf

I still don't understand why package managers exist that don't let you install two different versions of the same thing

New Posts

0

Q: Implement a Monad

A monad is a type that wraps another type, that represents the available operations on the wrapped type. Monads have the following associated operations, where M is the monad type, and T and U are any type: A type constructor that defines a new type M[T] that can hold some type T. A type convert...

Bbrk24

==> Pouring [email protected]
Error: Cannot link openssl@3
Another version is already linked: /usr/local/Cellar/openssl@3/3.3.2

rydwolf

@rydwolf eli5

Themoonisacheese

pip will yell about non-managed env

Ginger

13:27

--break-system-packages my beloved

Bbrk24

@Ginger pip3 install pipx worked

Themoonisacheese

that's fucking insane

Ginger

@rydwolf an interesting reason is that in strongly-typed languages the type system can choke on it :p

since zingler (v1).type may be different from zingler (v2).type, and they can both exist together

I seem to recall Haskell had a problem with this?

rydwolf

yeah but like, isn't that why config files where you specify the versions of your dependencies exist?

only one zingler should be in scope at once

Ginger

@Themoonisacheese it's a metaclass that looks over every attribute of the class it's used on to find the first function with a single parameter that has a type hint equal to the value of the thing class parameter, and assigns the return value of that function to the name of the class

sane and reasonable

Themoonisacheese

13:30

still don't get it

oh okay i get it

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

[draft] List Brace Expansion Easier version of Expand a bash brace expansion Bash has a useful feature where a comma-separated list within braces expands to every combination of the list items, separated by a space. For example, a{b,c} will expand to ab ac. If there is no comma, then there is no ...

Ginger

the second class definition is equivalent to:

match foo:
    case "a":
        result = 42

my favorite feature of Python is how many parts of the language are not set in stone

want to make class definitions do something entirely different? go right ahead

Themoonisacheese

isn't JS still heavily reliant on .toString() for pretty much anything?

Ginger

@rydwolf what if a dependency requires a different zingler than you have, and returns it to you?

rydwolf

wouldn't that be an issue regardless of whether you can have multiple versions installed or not?

if you don't have overlap in which versions you support

Ginger

13:37

I mean, in Python (for example) you can only ever have one zingler, ever, for the whole project

that is why dependency resolution exists

it doesn't matter in Python since Python is dynamically typed though

Themoonisacheese

i think the main problem stems from the distrinction that most of the time when you use a lib, you don't actually care about anything that it requires

package managers were written with the assumption that anything a lib you use imports, you also end up using because the lib is giving you back objects from those sub-libs

rydwolf

I feel like there could be a smarter way of doing it that looks at where versioned dependencies "leak" from one thing to another. Like if two dependencies of your project use different zinglers which never escape those particular dependencies, it's fine to have two zinglers

Ginger

certainly

Themoonisacheese

i think it'd even be fine to by-default limit dependency leaking to the thing requiring it in the first place

Ginger

but I can't think of any languages which do that

Themoonisacheese

13:40

and explicitly have to say "actually, my code does expose zingler 2"

Ginger

it would definitely be possible in a statically-typed language with visibility controls

rydwolf

yep, I guess that's why Python can't do that

That's the downside of a language that you can mold to your will :p

Themoonisacheese

i think you still could

Ginger

yeah Python could

it just doesn't

Themoonisacheese

of course pip doesn't agree and neither will import

Bbrk24

13:41

So far so good but I'm getting a RuntimeError doing poetry install

rydwolf

could it? I'd assume with reflection and stuff you'd always have a way to get at someone else's zingler

Themoonisacheese

but you can manually "import" files if you know where they are

Bbrk24

  - Installing torch (2.4.1): Failed

  RuntimeError

  Unable to find installation candidates for torch (2.4.1)

  at ~/.local/pipx/venvs/poetry/lib/python3.9/site-packages/poetry/installation/chooser.py:74 in choose_for
       70│
       71│             links.append(link)
       72│
       73│         if not links:
    →  74│             raise RuntimeError(f"Unable to find installation candidates for {package}")
       75│
       76│         # Get the best link
       77│         chosen = max(links, key=lambda link: self._sort_key(package, link))

Ginger

because one of the fundamental axioms that Python's import system and package manager assume is that a package is either there or not there

@Bbrk24 and I bet torch is a C module

Themoonisacheese

@rydwolf of course, but that's besides the point. if you want to you can manipulate butterflies in JS but most people don't have to and that's fine

Bbrk24

13:42

I only depend on it indirectly

Oh apparently poetry/torch stuff is a known issue and there's google results about it

Ginger

surprise!!!

if you have it installed globally you can configure poetry to grant your project access to your system site-packages

Bbrk24

I want installation to be as easy as poetry install

is that too much to ask?

I don't want to have to ask everyone who's working on this to manually install PyTorch first

Ginger

it is indeed too much to ask, because C modules exist and were a mistake

again: worst part of the language

Themoonisacheese

@rydwolf the point would be to, unless you're explicitly trying to break shit, define at the package level what your module can spit out, and you can parse a tree to see where conflicting versions of things might happen, enforced with linters

@Bbrk24 what are you trying to do

Bbrk24

Setting up the first Python project anyone has ever done at my workplace

I had it working with globally installed pip packages but that's a bad idea for obvious reasons

Themoonisacheese

13:47

yes

Ginger

I wish I had something more helpful

Bbrk24

@Ginger How does that work? Can I tell it to "use this torch but otherwise isolate dependencies for this project"?

Themoonisacheese

@Bbrk24 github.com/bndr/pipreqs

Bbrk24

I also might just use Conda or Mamba because that's what we used at my last job

Themoonisacheese

and then, when you have your requirements in a requirements.txt:

git clone <project>
cd project
python3 -m venv .venv
#linux:
source .venv/bin/activate
#windows
.venv/bin/activate.bat

pip install -r requirements.txt

python3 main.py
[etc]

Bbrk24

13:50

> linux/windows

mac

Themoonisacheese

same as linux i think

Bbrk24

There's a grand total of four imports, I think I can handle the requirements.txt by myself

Themoonisacheese

okay yes you can also do that

the above wil lgive you what you need for installation though

Ginger

@Bbrk24 all you can do is poetry config virtualenvs.options.system-site-packages true --local

afaik

Themoonisacheese

all contained in a venv, so cannot conflict with local install

also remember to add .venv to .gitignore

Bbrk24

13:52

@Ginger the venv stuff with just pip sounds easier, I'm doing that, sorry

Themoonisacheese

it's also the canonical (pip) way of doing it

Ginger

@Bbrk24 alr

good luck

Themoonisacheese

on mac there's also zsh mods to automatically activate/deactivate venvs when you enter/exit the folder which is fun, idk if you are power users of zsh though

(i love zsh)

(this is on stark contrast from my workplace which uses csh)

rydwolf

opinion: the web should not be designed in such a way that a website being able to see itself is a security vulnerability

Themoonisacheese

rydwolf

13:56

(looking at you, iframes, SOP exception for images, and cross-origin visited link styling)

Themoonisacheese

Aug 27 at 12:57, by lyxal

I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS I love CORS

lyxal

CORS? I was CORS once. They locked me in a room. A Cloudflare room! A Cloudflare room with localhost requests, and localhost requests make me CORS.

6

May 19 at 5:16, by lyxal

it takes a lot to put yourself in a situation where you can shoot yourself in the foot

Themoonisacheese

see also: overleaf

lyxal

Mar 11, 2022 at 3:32, by lyxal

Themoonisacheese

this is part of the documentation i wrote on overleaf:i.sstatic.net/xzj1eKiI.png

lyxal

14:02

my response to using overleaf

Themoonisacheese

and i capped it of with this i.sstatic.net/nSxrMNhP.png

note that i am the only member of my team who is even aware of what docker is to begin with

lyxal

> and i capped

fr fr cap

Themoonisacheese

ong no cap stg

Bbrk24

@Themoonisacheese It didn't install anything in the .venv folder because I already have it globally. Is that normal?

Themoonisacheese

no not really

Bbrk24

14:07

Oh, it started with Defaulting to user installation because normal site-packages is not writeable

Themoonisacheese

you may add --ignore-installed to the pip command to ensure it does download packages

Bbrk24

it then proceeded to install everything in ~/Library/Python/3.9/lib/python/site-packages

Themoonisacheese

oh god that's my bad

can you do which pip and which pip3 and show me the output

Bbrk24

which pip has a nonzero return code :P

which pip3 is /usr/bin/pip3

Themoonisacheese

are you sure you sourced the activate script?

Bbrk24

14:09

...I did not

thanks

Also apparently the torch issues with Poetry are Mac-specific, or at least exacerbated by Mac-specific stuff: github.com/pytorch/pytorch/issues/110004

Themoonisacheese

i'm guessing this is because pytorch is intended for CUDA and well, macs don't have that

rydwolf

idea: a "quiz" or "captcha" that abuses :visited styling to trick the user into voluntarily revealing which websites they've visited

E.g., the content of the link is just invisible characters and the background-color is set based on :visited

Then you put an invisible overlay on the page so that you can prevent them actually navigating away when they click

Themoonisacheese

14:26

ok but why

rydwolf

history stealing

Themoonisacheese

if you had the capacity to do this at any kind of useful scale you'd already have the history

eg: cloudflare

rydwolf

not necessarily

Themoonisacheese

how many buttons do you think you can make a user click until they stop and leave?

lyxal

14:50

1, I would hope

Bbrk24

How do I remove the line length limit for a pandas series to_string? I have a series of lists and I want it to show the full list for each row

rydwolf

> Text Stealing. Our attack is limited to scenarios in which the
attacker is able to guess the font used by the user. In cases
where this is not possible, for example if the user changes
the font, the user is not vulnerable. Moreover, while the technique extends to languages with very large alphabets, such
as Mandarin, in practice as the alphabet size increases the
attack becomes less practical especially compared to simply
sampling each pixel multiple times.

"use a secure font" is apparently now actual security advice :p

Themoonisacheese

you can guess a font in a lot of cases

by trying to instance it and time the delta it took to load

The Empty String Photographer

15:41

The Empty String Photographer

15:57

New Posts

0

Q: Play the Final Fantasy Prelude

Play the initial section of the Final Fantasy Prelude. This is a 4-octave up-down arpeggio of the following chords: Cadd2, Amadd2, Cadd2, Amadd2, Fadd2, Gadd2, G♯maj7, A♯maj7 Rules: Actual sound must play when running your code. What environment is used is up to you, for example it could be a fa...

code-golf kolmogorov-complexity music

Adám

@hyper-neutrino Can you give chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/52405/the-apl-orchard access to chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/52405/the-apl-orchard?

The Empty String Photographer

16:22

@Adám you want to give a chat room access to itself?

Adám

Oops: chat.stackexchange.com/users/609137/user53884

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer Thanks!

rydwolf

17:08

...how does a pager explode? Exploitable lithium ion battery firmware or purpose-designed devices sold as pagers or what?

Okay it was the lithium ion batteries that did the actual exploding apparently

(There's already a Wikipedia article)

Oh apparently they'd been received in a shipment just a few days ago?

I guess that means it's much more likely they were purpose designed to explode instead of some sort of exploit pushed out to existing devices

hyper-neutrino

@Adám done

Adám

Thanks.

Unrelated String

17:40

@rydwolf I would a priori expect a battery that exploded to be newer, if for no other reason than that if there's a manufacturing defect that makes it really prone to exploding it seems like it would explode relatively early in its expected lifetime

But I have no idea what happened here so if there's like, actual reason to suspect some kind of conspiracy, then yeah probably that

Was there some kind of high-profile arson?

Ginger

@rydwolf this is how I learn that happened??

Unrelated String

18:56

@Ginger OH THAT'S BEAUTIFUL

Ginger

phenomenal cosmic power

DLosc

Itty-bitty ~~living space~~ code?

Ginger

something like that

rydwolf

19:24

@UnrelatedString I'm sure you've checked the news since, but for anyone who hasn't, yeah, over 2000 people in Lebanon/Syria were injured by pagers rigged to explode and planted mainly on people associated with Hezbollah

Unrelated String

Oh wow

rydwolf

15 dead (9 in Lebanon, 6 in Syria) last time I checked

so basically the explosions are just enough to disfigure a bunch of civilians, but not kill people

which is definitely how international law says you should operate

Ginger

wonderful :|

Unrelated String

(I have not checked the news since :P Considered it because multiple people alluding to this piqued my curiosity, but then decision paralysis hit when I tried to figure out where and how I would actually look it up)

Yikes

rydwolf

nytimes.com/live/2024/09/17/world/…

NYT gift article so y'all can read it

Unrelated String

19:26

Oh neat thanks

The Empty String Photographer

desmos.com/calculator/okbvlel30c

random graph I made

happens to be a self-similar fractal

(I think it’s self-similar)

rydwolf

I'm shocked how few people seem to know about what's going on, hundreds or thousands of bombs planted on people rigged to go off simultaenously and injuring thousands is not a small deal

Ginger

I suspect we'll find out soon enough

fwiw Hezbollah's already blamed Israel for this

The Empty String Photographer

trends.google.com/trends/…

People have been searching for pagers 📟

Ginger

I love it when a website serves me an ad for a back-supporting chair that's 95% the height of my screen

the ad, not the chair

rydwolf when you're president can you require digital advertising to take up max 5% of the screen area of the device

The Empty String Photographer

20:05

New Posts

20:25

0

Q: Fractions nobody needs (because they can be reduced to a simpler form)

It happened in the 19th century. Georg was bored and started counting the rational numbers. Surprisingly, he discovered that there were no more of them than natural numbers. This insight made Georg famous. (OEIS A352911, only added in 2022!) But was Georg right? He didn't even count half of the f...

code-golf math rational-numbers

jan

20:46

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer with highest density in lebanon

DLosc

21:23

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer Protip: instead of using the image URL, you can just type https://xkcd.com/329 and it will show the comic and also the hover text will work.

rydwolf

22:21

This is how you know you're in for a good time:

rydwolf

22:50

Okay so evidently there was a small amount of actual explosive in the pagers, which makes sense. My impression of lithium ion battery "explosions" was that they aren't really like a sudden bang

Unrelated String

Ahhhhh

rydwolf

So I guess the lithium ion battery thermal runaway set off actual explosives

And yeah according to NUT it's basically confirmed to be Israel

Uhh...*NYT

Seggan

23:15

TIL that if you keep moving your mouse on linux it wont only sincrease in size to help you find it it will keep growing as long as you keep moving your mouse

i just got my mouse to fill half the screen :P

jan

which linux

that sounds like a goofy setting

Redz

@Seggan oh is that why the mouse size increases when you swish it?

Bbrk24

Mac does it too, Windows doesn't

but Windows has an option to put a circle around the cursor when you hit Ctrl

Seggan

@Bbrk24 IIRC mac only increases the size once and keeps it that way

@Redz yeah but i only thought it increased once

@jan Fedora KDE

Bbrk24

@Seggan It increases to a point

moving it kinda fast vs really fast is a different size

but there is a size limit

Seggan

23:24

hrm yeah i moved my mouse around for like a minute i still havent found a size limit

cant screenshot it tho :/

Redz

@Seggan can you get it to fill the whole screen

@Seggan video record?

Seggan

@Redz itll prob take a while

ATaco

@Seggan Fedora KDE gang who up

X11 or Wayland, out of curiosity?

Seggan

Wayland

havent run X11 for a few months now

only thing that breaks is discord screen share but i just use the browser version for that

MOUSE

►

Redz

sheeeeeeesh

well did you figure out where it was? :P

ATaco

23:49

(Discord Screenshare breaking is why I moved to X11 lmao)

You'd think it'd've been patched by now

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