The Nineteenth Byte

Bubbler

02:08

the bonus part of the puzzle yesterday is now a separate puzzle, enjoy

The Empty String Photographer

08:41

???Why has nobody tried to make a programming language with just half a character¿¿¿

mousetail

Isn't that literally nibbles?

Themoonisacheese

09:11

it is

anyone else having problems with running things on ATO or is it just my work firewall?

this worked a minute ago and now i get websocket errors in my js console when i run it

emanresu A

09:36

Looks like just a you issue

Themoonisacheese

it works again

oh well

The Empty String Photographer

11:42

@mousetail Nibbles has 16 chars

In codepage

I was asking about half a char in the codepage

@emanresuA It probably isn’t, since it would be easier to contact a psychologist

mousetail

There is one that uses all Chinese characters, would that count? Since they are multiple bytes each

The Empty String Photographer

@mousetail No, they have more than half a character in the codepage

mousetail

But only half a character per byte

The Empty String Photographer

But that’s not what I meant

mousetail

What do you mean then? What's half a character?

The Empty String Photographer

11:46

With the language I’m proposing, and using the log byte rule, each umm… thing would be worth -0.125 bytes.

mousetail

A character is just a piece of data. Half a piece of data is still just a piece of data. Just like you can't have half a piece of watermelon or half a slice of pizza, they are still pieces of watermelon or slices of pizza

Neil

@Bubbler for the original puzzle, can you trivially modify the accepted solution by switching the 1 in the bottom left corner with the 3 above it? what about vertically reflecting the bottom half and then switching the 3 and 1 above?

The Empty String Photographer

0

Q: I don’t know what to buy!

My roommate asked me to buy some stuff from the grocery store. “What am I supposed to get from the grocery store, sir?” I replied. “Man, get out and just buy the dang groceries, WILL YOU!?!” shouted my roommate. What am I supposed to buy? Hint:

Anyways I only came here to advertise a puzzle that was not at all related to the other one

And I like it how the spoiler text is just about far enough to not show in the preview here

Which is good

Themoonisacheese

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer is this about a specific species of cherry?

The Empty String Photographer

@Themoonisacheese If you think you know the answer then post it

(IDK if its a cherry tho)

Themoonisacheese

12:00

i'm most likely wrong then

The Empty String Photographer

im pretty sure its not a cherry

Themoonisacheese

gave it my best shot

i am not very good at wordplay in english

in my travels, i also stumbled upon a vendor that claims to be selling halal-certified cherry syrup

which i find terrifying because i thought only animal products get to be halal

mousetail

Maybe some syrup isn't actually vegetarian? I'm surprised how much stuff contains gelatine or other animal products

Themoonisacheese

against all odds their site is blocked by our corporate firewall and i only get to read their search engine blurb

but you're most likely correct

lyxal

1

Q: Announcing a Special Pro Tempore election for 2024

Summary: Monero Stack Exchange currently has no moderators. We will begin the nomination stage for a special election on Tuesday August 20, 2024 to bring in three new mods. All moderators across the SE network were asked to sign a new version of the moderator agreement by August 8, 2024. Mods who...

discussion featured election

apparently, there's only one user on Monero with enough rep/recent activity to go for mod on that site

which given the part which says:

> If there are still fewer than 3 candidates at the end of the nomination period even after it is extended, we may need to seriously consider the on-going viability of the site.

does not bode well for the site :p

mousetail

12:16

Hopefully all the crypto sites domino down

lyxal

~~finally SE doing something right (updating the mod agreement)~~

mousetail

Add a binding arbitration clause to the agreement

lyxal

require re-signing or demodding :p

Themoonisacheese

how will i ever sue SE if my wife dies in a SE-owned restaurant in the future if they do that?:(

The Empty String Photographer

12:36

@Themoonisacheese Create a shell company and sue them acting as the company? (You signed the contract but the company did not)

mousetail

The company must have damages against it, a new company can't sue anybody till someone damages it

Themoonisacheese

^

disney dropped that btw

i guess they're afraid of setting the precedent

The Empty String Photographer

@mousetail Employ the wife as CFO

mousetail

Can you employ a dead person?

Themoonisacheese

to law.SE!

The Empty String Photographer

12:40

You employed the wife earlier

mousetail

I don't think you could sue in any case for the death of someone who was already dead when you hired them

Themoonisacheese

could a company even sue for damages created by the death of an employee?

The Empty String Photographer

You employed the wife before they died

Themoonisacheese

yes but that would require foresight

The Empty String Photographer

@Themoonisacheese maybe if the employee was an important one

mousetail

12:41

@Themoonisacheese I don't see why not, if you can prove it hurt the company

The Empty String Photographer

Well there is no CFO anymore

Themoonisacheese

i mean yes if you're able to show damages you can sue for them but i find it wierd that i've never hear about this happening

mousetail

I guess most companies don't care about their employees that much

Themoonisacheese

this sounds like exactly the kind of things that would happen in the Land Of The Free

The Empty String Photographer

So I guess the company’s finances are now wrecked

(Not like they have any)

Themoonisacheese

12:42

@mousetail fair enough

The Empty String Photographer

Would Microsoft sue the restaurant if they killed Bill Gates? Quite likely.

Themoonisacheese

i mean

would they?

The Empty String Photographer

Bill Gates is quite an important person

mousetail

I don't think they would

Themoonisacheese

microsoft has quite clearly been able to do without him for decades at this point

mousetail

12:45

Bill Gates family is plenty equipped to do that themselves

Microsoft as a company wouldn't really be effected as ^^

The Empty String Photographer

How about CFO of Microsoft?

mousetail

I don't think they would

Themoonisacheese

is the CFO of MS so important there that them leaving (even just resigning) would create such damages?

mousetail

Anyone important enough at MS is wealthy enough to take care of those things themselves

Themoonisacheese

having a bus factor of 1 on your CFO is insane

The Empty String Photographer

12:46

Who is gonna manage the company’s finance now?

Themoonisacheese

chatGPT, clearly

The Empty String Photographer

…

No

mousetail

I assume they have plenty of financial experts ready to jump at the oppertunity

Themoonisacheese

more seriously, a new one who has experience managing a gigantic finance department

for the same reason that if the current CFO resigns effective immediately, MS isn't going to lose billions

mousetail

They have entire detailed protocols written in advance for what to do if someone important dies/goes missing/resigns/goes rogue/etc.

The Empty String Photographer

12:52

You won’t if you’re just a tiny company with you as CEO and your wife as CFO

*probably

Themoonisacheese

huh

so apparently

key person insurance exists and is a thing

Key person insurance

Key person insurance, also called keyman insurance, is an important form of business insurance. There is no legal definition of "key person insurance". In general, it can be described as an insurance policy taken out by a business to compensate that business for financial losses that would arise from the death or extended incapacity of an important member of the business. To put it simply, key person insurance is a standard life insurance or trauma insurance policy that is used for business succession or business protection purposes. The policy's term does not extend beyond the period of the key...

(but also if your bus factor is such that this is useful to your company you should really just spend that money on increasing the bus factor in the first place)

The Empty String Photographer

@Themoonisacheese but the whole point of making that company is so that you can sue SE

Themoonisacheese

still would have to show damages

The Empty String Photographer

Well you lost your employee with bus factor 1

Themoonisacheese

yes, but the shell company that does nothing will not be able to show that they lost money because of that

not a significant amount anyway

what i got from the disney thing was that the husband would still be allowed to sue as her estate for wrongful death, but not as himself for pain and suffering

provided that a court agreed that the arbitration clause was enforceable to begin with of course

The Empty String Photographer

13:08

Well, all your money is in the company (you use the company’s credit/debit/charge card) and your wife is “responsible” for the management of the finances (just making sure nobody fraudulently takes the money away). If your wife dies then you “can’t” monitor the bank account for fraud as you are not the CFO.

And that would be “very bad”

Themoonisacheese

i mean sure

The Empty String Photographer

They’ve probably already thought of that though…

Themoonisacheese

but i'm pretty sure attempting this is both tax fraud and will get you laughed out of a court room

The Empty String Photographer

Tax fraud?

Themoonisacheese

companies typically don't require buying groceries, for example

The Empty String Photographer

13:10

I thought [shell] companies were a legal way of reducing tax

Themoonisacheese

i mean, they are, but the cost of doing so in a way that's not tax fraud makes this only viable if you own billions

The Empty String Photographer

@Themoonisacheese what about “restocking the cafeteria in the office”?

Themoonisacheese

lying about the purpose of company expenses is also tax fraud i'm pretty sure

mousetail

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer There are really strict rules about how much you are allowed to spend on cafeteria food for example. My company provides lunch, it's "free" but we need to pay tax over it since it goes over the tax-free limit

The Empty String Photographer

The company is fine paying tax though

Themoonisacheese

13:17

yes, but companies don't get to buy everything for their employees

because then the companies can just only pay no tax (since their profits are 0, they're spending all the money they get) -> tax fraud

they could pay salaries to the emplyees but then you're paying double tax (since in this scenario the income for the companies is your paycheeck after taxes)

and tbh if you're doing this hypothetical to be able to get compensation for a loved one's death, life insurance already exists

lyxal

Are we talking about tax evasion? Good stuff that

The Empty String Photographer

@Themoonisacheese yeah I knoe

*know

but you could get some extra money by doing that as well

Themoonisacheese

@lyxal taxfraud.SE when

The Empty String Photographer

@Themoonisacheese The company is fine paying taxes

the company

will give the money

if the relevant tax agency asks for it

Themoonisacheese

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer

oops mb

you told someone "welcome on chat.se" on puzzling :)

lyxal

13:32

@Themoonisacheese you know for sure I'd be running to be mod on that site

Themoonisacheese

first of all, not how that works at all but sure, let's say that the CFO has perfect knowledge of corporate tax law.
there are many things a company can't buy for its employees, not because it doesn't pay tax on it, but because it can't pay tax on it

mousetail

You'd end up on so many watch lists the various tax agency's agents would cause a traffic jam

Themoonisacheese

ultimately the reality is the same thing that happens to world citizens/"i am not driving i am traveling" types

lyxal

can't catch me for fraud if you can't catch me

Themoonisacheese

the government, who has a monopoly on violence, sees you do things it disagrees with and will drag you to court. the law is decided by the government in the first place, and any "clever" schemes you can think of have already been exploited by people before you, and if they haven't, any judge will see right through your scheme and you're going to prison

especially with tax law, in any given country, the amount of laws is so large and their scope so vague that any citizen could be construed to be committing tax fraud at any given point in time

Ginger

13:45

it's impressive how many web APIs are supported by every browser that is not named Firefox

Themoonisacheese

it's impressive how every browser that isn't firefox is just chromium

Ginger

except for the ones that are webkit

Themoonisacheese

so the 3ds web browser then?

Ginger

@Ginger actually this is pretty uncharitable, a LOT of the ones that mozilla developers lists are chromium-only

Themoonisacheese

i'm being disingenuous, safari exists. but every other browser out there with any significance is just chromium

Ginger

13:51

such as: webusb, webgpu, webhid, web serial, web bluetooth, background sync, various sensor APIs, etc

Themoonisacheese

most of these are just different names for the API that enables you to talk to peripherals though

Ginger

mozilla's philosophy seems to be that websites have no business accessing peripherals

Themoonisacheese

i tend to agree

these APIs tremendously help google sell chromebooks, i don't think they would have created them were it not for that

Ginger

oh yeah that makes sense

if I were creating a device whose sole purpose is bootstrapping a web browser, I would want the web browser to have access to as much of the hardware as possible

Themoonisacheese

yep

i used to (i guess i still do, it's just very old) own a chromebook and it's Not Very Fun doing anything

The Empty String Photographer

14:00

A chat about bypassing arbitration clauses

2 hours ago, 1 hour 20 minutes total – 98 messages, 4 users, 2 stars

Bookmarked 20 secs ago by The Empty String Photographer

@Themoonisacheese but I didn’t want to commit tax fraud

I just wanted to sue a company that I entered into with a contract that has an arbitration clause

Themoonisacheese

i mean, yes, but you'd also be comitting tax fraud while doing it and it wouldn't be particularly effective

why does chat.se have such nice to have features but is also so jank at the same time

The Empty String Photographer

Let’s think about mens rea

It was not my intent to commit tax evasion

therefore I am not guilty of such

Themoonisacheese

nice loophole, however: doing this would require you talking to an accountant, who would tell you not to do this on account of the crimes, at which point if you continue doing it, you willfully continued to do it

The Empty String Photographer

😮‍💨

Themoonisacheese

i really like that you're continuing to entertain this but ultimately, the company is going to sue SE, se will go "that's wierd", and counter sue you for breach of contract

at the end of the day it's fun, but it really comes down to "do you have more money and lawyers"

The Empty String Photographer

14:13

@Themoonisacheese yes I understand

@Themoonisacheese Take the money and run away [to British Honduras if necessary]

Themoonisacheese

you want to bypass arbitration clauses

i want to commit tax fraud

we are not the same

5

The Empty String Photographer

I can’t resist staring every message I see

mousetail

I'll ask a mod to remove them all in a bit

The Empty String Photographer

:(

Themoonisacheese

my stars :(

The Empty String Photographer

14:15

it was only 3

mousetail

That's like a 4th of the starboard and it's stuff that isn't even funny out of context

Themoonisacheese

true

The Empty String Photographer

Unstar all the messages that have less than 2 stars then 😮‍💨

As of now

mousetail

That would be fine

The Empty String Photographer

AFDAIL (A few days ago I learnt): the adjective “Manx” describes things relating to the Isle of Man.

mousetail

14:25

Rydwolf Programs

@Themoonisacheese probably a low-end chromebook then

I run a flagship Chromebook as my daily driver lol

Themoonisacheese

you'd think out of all people, the people creating openAI frontends would be able to tell how much creating an openAI frontennd is a bad idea

@RydwolfPrograms acer chromebook 13 from 2016-1017

time to compile VScode from source: 14 hours

@RydwolfPrograms do you run chromeOS or do you just use it as a laptop and use arch,btw?

Rydwolf Programs

The better ones have Linux and Android app support, and can make way better use of an i5 and 8GB of RAM than Windows

@Themoonisacheese ChromeOS

It just works

Unlike raw Linux

Themoonisacheese

untrue but go off i guess

not my experience at all with chromeOS

Rydwolf Programs

I had nothing but hardware issues when using Linux

Themoonisacheese

14:31

what was done worked fine, but as soon as you stepped outside of the carfully crafted walled garden, nothing was possible

Rydwolf Programs

They've gotten way better about that since 2017 tbf

Themoonisacheese

yes most likely

mine couldn't even get android app support

at the time it was limited to x86 chromebooks (????? android mostly runs on arm but go off i guess)

but the chromebrew-adjacent arch distro was actually serviceable, given the 2Gb of RAM and the tegra K1 SoC

Rydwolf Programs

I mainly did HTML/JS for the first four or so years I coded, so a non-Linux non-Android Chromebook still worked great for me

Themoonisacheese

that's fair

Rydwolf Programs

But that's admittedly a small group of people

And probably the causation went the other way

Themoonisacheese

14:34

chromebrew was actually getting to be pretty good by the time i stopped using mine

Unrelated String

15:32

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer Did you not at least know about the language

There's a total of like 6 non-extinct Celtic languages and Manx is one of them

So I'd be pretty surprised if you'd never run into any mention of that

@mousetail AMAZING

The Empty String Photographer

15:54

@mousetail Reminds me of the rickroll hotline

New Posts

16:25

0

Q: On a A014153 (fewest operations)

There is an OEIS sequence A014153. You need to calculate first n terms. You have a vector v of length n with elements v_i = 1. There is only one operation available to you: increasing any element of the vector by the value of any other element of the vector. Also, you cannot select a random eleme...

math fewest-operations

Ginger

17:47

the three genders, plus 253 reserved for future use

hyper-neutrino

tag yourself i'm reserved for future use

Ginger

gender 128 is my favorite

Unrelated String

My gender is 255, because I'm NOT male

🥁

Okay that joke was terrible

I wish the encoding was 0 unspecified, 1 male, 2 female
Because then I could say, I'm 3 because I'm female but I still have male bits :P

4

Ginger

18:05

characteristics which the Bluetooth SIG has defined for BLE include:
- ammonia concentration
- hip circumference
- IEEE 11073-20601 Regulatory Certification Data List
- non-methane VOC levels
- time (decihours)
- sedentary interval notification
- distance of a chromaticity coordinate from the Planckian locus

Unrelated String

~~and this might give another meaning to "reserved for future use"~~

The Empty String Photographer

Can’t it just be 0 = male and 255 = female, and anything in between is in between those genders?

Ginger

I am pleased to learn that BLE will seamlessly support my combined ammonia detector and hip circumference measurer

@TheEmptyStringPhotographer unfortunately it's not that simple :p

hyper-neutrino

@UnrelatedString lmao i almost didn't say that because i realized what it might sound like :skull: but figured it'd be funny anyway

Unrelated String

LMAO

Ginger

18:10

imagine not actually using the emoji 💀

hyper-neutrino

too lazy

someone make a userscript to show an emoji selector when you type :... /hj

Unrelated String

@Ginger I don't have it myself but I know at least one person who uses a custom Discord emoji that's literally just a picture of the text "skull emoji"

Ginger

I am extremely curious about how much consideration went into the spec (such as it is) for the gender characteristic

Unrelated String

Probably not much
I feel like male/female/unspecified is just kind of the bare minimum you'd *need* (since unspecified can be a default for technical reasons as well as personal), and then there's no reason *not* to reserve the rest

Or rather there's exactly one reason not to reserve the rest and it's as a symbolic gesture of actively being an exclusionary dick

Unrelated String

18:30

Adding an "other" option would definitely be nice if nothing else

But I wouldn't be surprised if they're just, like, actively debating that and that's one thing they'll actually use a reserved code for

Oh yeah that is also how I thought of it in the first place
Because like I was originally thinking of elaborating the joke, like, "my gender is reserved for future use because I am not using it yet", but then I realized that only makes sense if I specify "my gender is" instead of the "I'm" you used

The Empty String Photographer

chatgpt.com/share/03e572b3-ba05-4bee-bdda-482ca6428ad7

Unrelated String

That seems like a pretty normal interaction...?

The Empty String Photographer

Interesting branding concept

@UnrelatedString It took me some time to understand the joke

Ginger

@UnrelatedString I wouldn't be surprised if they forgot about it shortly after writing the spec and have devoted zero thought to it since :b

Unrelated String

:þ

Unrelated String

19:07

...so I finally figured out that the big bottleneck in my anti-blackhead efforts so far is inadequate exfoliation, and seemed to remember something about moisturizing being helpful for that

At which point, I realized

Occasionally swapping a "hydrating cleanser" in for the salicylic acid-based one I usually use is maybe not the most effective way to moisturize :P

(maybe "-based" was the wrong way to put that since it makes it sound like that's the actual main cleaning agent LMAO)

Bbrk24

@UnrelatedString T blockers are sometimes used to prevent acne, not just for HRT, so...

Unrelated String

:D

I was aware of skin generally getting less oily but not of that specifically

Bbrk24

yeah I'm really looking forward to that because, even though I no longer get acne on my face, I still get it in other places like on my scalp and my upper back

Unrelated String

Damn

I've never had real acne breakouts, but my nose has been covered in blackheads for years and years--I want to say as long as I can remember, but it's more like I just can't remember when they started because they were already really bad whenever anyone first noticed

Probably stated around puberty

Bbrk24

In middle school I got really bad acne on my face and I have scars on my one cheek now

Unrelated String

19:19

Since that's both something that tends to cause acne in and of itself, and around when I started living with my dad who kinda wasn't the best at reminding me about basic hygiene :P

@Bbrk24 🫂🫂🫂

I think for much of my early childhood I refused to wash my face at all, and then when I started seeing the consequences of not doing that I did start doing it on my own initiative... with bar soap

Meanwhile now I feel a little disgusting using bar soap even on the rest of my body LMAO

Bbrk24

I still use bar soap primarily

Unrelated String

Could probably deal with it better if I actually got around to shaving my damn body hair

Since it's hard to get a good lather under it in the first place, and then it's hell trying to put lotion on after

Bbrk24

I've found that I just like the way it feels to shave my legs, even beyond gender reasons

Unrelated String

I can imagine

It seems so satisfying

Bbrk24

like I didn't like wearing longer socks before I started shaving my legs (autism sensory stuff) which made winter harder than it needed to be

Unrelated String

19:27

Like shaving your face except without any of the weird curvature faces have

Bbrk24

I use an electric razor for my face so when I first used a traditional razor for my legs it was a very new experience

Unrelated String

Traditional razors seem so weird

Bbrk24

electric razors don't give you nearly as clean of a shave so I generally won't use it on my legs

Unrelated String

Wait really

Damn

Bbrk24

yeah

traditional razors cut at the surface of the skin, electric razors cut slightly above

Unrelated String

19:30

Ohhhhhhhhh

Ginger

yeap

Unrelated String

So traditional razors actually put the blade directly on the skin without any kind of guard?

I thought only straight razors did that

Wow

Bbrk24

I have a small scar on my right leg because the first time I didn't realize how little force you need

Unrelated String

@Bbrk24 Funnily enough I've always liked longer socks for sensory reasons, but still occasionally wear flip-flops in the winter to avoid the hassle of actually putting shoes on

Damn

Bbrk24

you really don't need to push in at all

just gently glide along the surface of the skin

Unrelated String

19:32

Whoa

Bbrk24

though with longer hair they get clogged pretty quick so I recommend trimming your leg hair with electric clippers the first time you shave

Ginger

this is why shaving cream and its ilk exist: you are literally rubbing sharp metal blades along your skin, which can irritate it (among other things)

Unrelated String

xd

Bbrk24

yeah you really don’t want to do it dry

Ginger

are you licking your eyeballs in dismay or what

11

Unrelated String

19:34

@Bbrk24 ...I kind of assumed that was actually mandatory

@Ginger AAAAAAAAAAAAA

Bbrk24

@Ginger though depending on how sensitive your skin is just water can be enough

Unrelated String

Oh that's good to know

I feel like my skin is probably not very sensitive

Ginger

@Ginger reasonably sure this is not the first time this observation has been made :p

Unrelated String

News to me

Ginger

ah, I said it the first time

coulda sworn it was rydwolf

Unrelated String

19:37

ah :P

Ginger

I appreciate that the chat pronouns userscript is half-broken because DOMSubtreeModified is dead

emanresu A

I tend to avoid using it because it doesn't shorten usernames properly so you get this:

Bbrk24

@Ginger Could that be related to github.com/Glorfindel83/SE-Userscripts/issues/59 ?

emanresu A

Ginger

@Bbrk24 probably yes, let me try fixing it

Bbrk24

19:45

if it works you could create a PR

Ginger

20:00

I think I fixed it?

the script uses jquery and is thus quite cursed

tbh I might just rewrite the whole thing later

Bbrk24

If you do I'd gladly switch to yours, because I know it's maintained and because I can just ping you when it breaks

@hyper-neutrino I would attempt this but I've never written a userscript before

Ginger

pronoundb support could be cool, but that would probably require a server

Bbrk24

Is that the plugin for a modded Discord client?

Ginger

it's also a browser extension

pronoundb.org

Bbrk24

right

I don't want to have to set that up tbh

Ginger

20:06

~~I could just make a PR to add SE support~~

cursed solution: use people's GitHub accounts in their SE profiles to do the lookup

Unrelated String

Not a bad idea :P

Rydwolf Programs

22:18

@UnrelatedString tbf concentrated acid could work as a cleaning agent. You'll have a nice, polished, oil- and acne-free skull :p

Unrelated String

Indeed

Rydwolf Programs

Animated skeleton gang

Bubbler

22:53

@Neil The former works. For the latter, IIUC the 2 on the left side will be split apart, so it doesn't work.

Neil

23:21

@Bubbler ah right, I think I need a diagonal mirror instead

Rydwolf Programs

Wow such a quality feature, Transit

lyxal

"Brown is neoff orange" - VSauce, 2024

Redz

23:43

w h a t

Bubbler

@Neil Then it's my solution (or its mirror image)

lyxal

@Redz youtube.com/shorts/vnpOGuvZsX0

Redz

this is enlightening

A chat about bypassing arbitration clauses

Transcript for