The Nineteenth Byte

emanresu A

00:32

Cli / sockets is quite a pain to set up, and java is the worst possible option.

Jacob

00:54

intuitively cli would make sense but i don't want to deal with installing a ton of languages

i am definitely not doing it in java

emanresu A

The main advantage of JS / stack snippets is that anyone can run it

DLosc

^ ... and can run it without having to install anything, and it's (relatively!) easy to do graphical output, which makes it very fun to watch the entries even if you didn't submit one.

@Simd Depends--what kind of Greek? (Ancient? Modern?)

Unrelated String

01:24

@emanresuA java's actually a pretty good option provided you let other jvm languages in :P

(which is usually why)

user

01:42

I feel like Python and JS are somewhat more commonly used than JVM languages here on CGCC

Unrelated String

yeah they're by far more common

that's just why there are like two or three in java :P

@Jacob also we've entertained elm as a default; don't think it's caught on yet but you can blaze the trail :P

TwilightSparkle

06:14

How to get better at code golf?

But I'm bad at code golf :(

user

Get better at coding and get better at golfing (the physical sport). I'm sure you'll get better at code golf that way :P

/srs Probably practice?

CMA: Introducing everything.rs, a Rust port to rule all ports. You know how there's all these repositories popping up that are "X Unix tool, but in Rust"? Well, this will make all of them obsolete. I, user, have managed to port every single Unix tool ever made (and even tools that haven't yet been made) to Rust

8

(let me know if this has been done before, I'll delete the repo if it isn't anything new and funny)

mousetail

06:37

What does CMA stand for?

user

Chat Mini Announcement

mousetail

@user CMC This is 290 bytes, do it in less

user

C makes it a little easier, right?

Or maybe not, since execvp? needs a NULL at the end of the arguments

mousetail

You'd still need to replicate the error checking

pxeger

06:53

@mousetail Zsh, 6 bytes: env --

you could argue that the 0 byte answer is valid here

user

@mousetail Ah, I was assuming you meant just something to run whatever you're passed in, not something with that exact behavior

mousetail

I don't care about the exact error messages but it should print something in case of error or no arguments to have the same vibe, think that would make it more interesting

user

Ah, that would disallow 0 byte answers then

TwilightSparkle

08:11

@user It's hard to get enough practice when you're not good enough, because the better you get at it, the more you like it. And getting good at it requires practice, so we're back to the start :(

mousetail

09:03

@TwilightSparkle How is it harder to practice when you are bad? If anything it's easier since there is more to golf from your initial solution

Fatalize

09:39

@UnrelatedString It works if you constrain the output to be a string: ∧Ṡ.l&~sᵛ

Simd

10:27

@DLosc enough to understand ibb.co/r40cg8M

Line 4

Ginger

11:00

@user Finally, I can have Rust, in Rust, in RUST

lyxal

@user me on my way to pour Coca-Cola on your program (it dissolves rust apparently)

Rust programs may be memory safe and thread safe, but they sure aren't acid safe :p

mousetail

Yea, only SQL is ACID compliant

TwilightSparkle

11:40

@mousetail The better you're at it, the more you like it. If you can't golf down the bytes from your solution, it's not fun and soon you will stop doing it.

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

How boring is it? The boringness index of a function is the number of times you have to differentiate that function to reach 0, or \$\infty\$ if it will never reach 0. The lower the index, the more boring a function is! Your task is to write the shortest code that can evaluate the boringness in...

mousetail

@TwilightSparkle You shouldn't golf bytes from other's solutions. Just try the challenge yourself from scratch, ignore any existing solutions. Doesn't matter if yours is 4x as long, it's still a fun challenge

Only when you have golfed the most you can should you look at other solutions for tips to improve

@TwilightSparkle Also why do you even want to golf if you don't find it fun?

There is no benefit

TwilightSparkle

12:03

@mousetail I knew someone will ask this...

My life was meaningful and I had better things to do, but in one day (several days actually) they disappeared from my life.

mousetail

And you think getting good at golfing will give you purpose again?

TwilightSparkle

idk

Probably it won't.

mousetail

Yea that seems like a long shot, especially if you don't enjoy it

TwilightSparkle

most likely, actually.

mousetail

Golfing is really fun, but you need to start slow. It's OK if your best answer is very long. You don't start running for the first time by racing Usian Bolt

Ginger

12:32

hi, I've got a programming issue that I'd like some help with

I'm working on a program that turns an image into a hexagonal tessellation, but its output has strange gaps between the hexagons:

code available upon request

mousetail

How are you deciding the position to draw each hexagon?

Ginger

well, that's the thing; the lib I'm using (Java's Graphics2D) doesn't have a built-in function for drawing hexagons, so I'm calculating the vertices myself

I'm doing it using this pile of spaghetti here:

Ero Sɘnnin

Hiya, hope I'm not interrupting anything. I have this small doubt about Search Engine Optimization and keywords. Anyone knows where I can ask the question?

Ginger

fillPolygon(
                                        Polygon().also { polygon ->
                                            (0..Tesselator.SIDES - 1)
                                                    .map { i ->
                                                        arrayOf(
                                                                        (x *
                                                                                Tesselator.RADIUS *
                                                                                2) +

mousetail

Hexagons look regular enough, I think they are just placed in the wrong spots

Ginger

12:37

@EroSɘnnin well, definitely not here :p

this is the Code Golf Stack Exchange main chatroom

but lemme see if I can figure out where you should ask it

Ero Sɘnnin

Yeah I know, thought I'll ask the most active chatroom and see if I get any leads

mousetail

I don't think they are on topic anywhere on SE

Ginger

hmm

Ero Sɘnnin

Thanks tho :)

mousetail

SEO questions are basically always terrible

Ginger

12:37

I keep forgetting that we're the most active room :b

Ero Sɘnnin

i know right

even google cant answer these

Ginger

what's the question? we might be able to help

Ero Sɘnnin

or im just bad at googling

Ginger

~~and if not you could stay awhile, we love us some new users~~

Ero Sɘnnin

So its not really code related. Its about the keyword density

mousetail

12:38

Only if you do golfing though

Ginger

everyone has the potential to golf within them

Ero Sɘnnin

Sorry, I don't. But it's nice to always learn new things lol

mousetail

Keyword density is bullshit, there is no evidence it actually matters except in very extreme cases

Ginger

^ agreed

Ero Sɘnnin

I feel the same

Ginger

12:39

SEO as a whole generally doesn't work

mousetail

^ +1000

Ginger

what're you trying to use it for?

@mousetail lemme put the drawing code in a Gist rq

mousetail

SEO is like alternative medicine. Nobody known anything and the techniques are just random myths

Ginger

here's the draw function

Ero Sɘnnin

Here is the situation:
Coworker is a content writer working together with the SEO dept. They have to write blogs that are 400+ words long. Lets say the topic is "Digital Accessibility". The SEO guy says that you can't use that word more than 5 times. Get it? Not more than 5 times.. in a blog about... "Digital Accessibility". So I wanted to call bs on that but i lack the knowledge and evidence.

mousetail

12:42

I think it's bullshit but I'm not a expert

I wouldn't trust SEO experts either though

Ero Sɘnnin

same

Ginger

that sounds more like an interpersonal problem, and if you want people advice you have definitely come to the wrong place q:

mousetail

Yea, we all hate eachother here

Ero Sɘnnin

Lol, yes I know this is not the place to ask. I was asking if you guys knew where i can present this question

Ginger

~~if I were you I'd maybe put something on Workplace.SE asking how you can nicely tell the SEO guy to shut up~~

Ero Sɘnnin

12:43

Heyy i hate myself

does that count?

Ginger

er, no

mousetail

That's cheating, requires 0 bytes

Ero Sɘnnin

>:c

@Ginger noted

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms do you have any advice for this poor soul

(you may have to wait for a while, Rydwolf doesn't get on for a few hours usually)

anyway: @mousetail do you see any issues with the drawing code?

mousetail

I'm having trouble understanding what's going on

Ginger

12:45

functional programming go brrr

mousetail

You really need to watch this: youtube.com/watch?v=CFRhGnuXG-4

Ginger

most of the code is a bunch of math I copied from stackoverflow.com/questions/3436453/… to figure out the vertices

pretty much everything inside fillPolygon() is what calculates the points

mousetail

It seems ok, how are you deciding where to place the hexagons?

Ginger

lines 20-24 and line 36

those calculate and add an offset to the point x and y values

for x the calculation is (x * radius * 2) + (radius * (y % 2))

and for y it's y * radius * sqrt(2)

mousetail

That's not correct though for a regular hexagon

Ginger

12:48

if you zoom in to the hexagons, they seem to be squished weirdly

lyxal

@Ginger is the indenting intentional?

Ginger

@lyxal it's part of a larger file, the indenting is an an artifact of that

lyxal

thank goodness

Ginger

bruh why is my indent size set to 8

lyxal

some of the code ever

mousetail

12:50

You really should seperate out this into multiple functions

Ginger

yeah, probably

Hello, World!

0

A: "Hello, World!"

Hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian 2, 9465000 Bytes The bytecount is only approximate, and the code is so long that it would hang my browser for a long time if I pasted it, so here is the link.

2

Ginger

@Hello,World! ...what is this

lyxal

Hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian 2

obviously

Ginger

@user fun fact: the official Rust book endorses a grep replacement made in Rust

mousetail

12:52

Does it use rust's limited regex engine?

Ginger

I have no clue

anyway, the hexagons in the generated output seem to be squished along the x axis

I have updated the gist to only have the code that calculates the vertices

hopefully it's easier to understand now

mousetail

Shouldn't the Y position be 1.5 * radius * Y and not sqrt(2) * radius * Y?

Ginger

maybe? using sqrt(2) makes them slot together perfectly tho

lemme try it

yeah now it looks like this:

which is pretty, but still not correct

mousetail

My logic, not sure if it's correct

Ginger

I have no clue lol

using sqrt(2) just made it work correctly

I don't know how or why

I'm wondering if the issue might be the addition of (Math.PI / SIDES) to the result, which I did to rotate each hexagon so their points would be facing up

@mousetail I don't think it is, because the hexagons are slotted together so there's not one full hexagon-height between them

mousetail

13:02

There is exactly one side length bewteen them

Ginger

the extra space between the bottom vertex of the vertical sides and the bottom vertex of the hexagon itself is what sqrt(2) accounts for, I think

mousetail

@Ginger What if you delete that then switch sin and cos to get the same rotation?

Ginger

hmm

@mousetail it looks identical

wait

when I removed the sqrt(2) thing, it introduced more gaps

mousetail

The vertical distance should defiantly be 1.5 based on my testing

Ginger

but it also shrunk the problematic other gaps

so I think 1.5 is correct and there's a different issue somewhere

mousetail

13:11

I think the horizontal distance should not be x * radius * 2 but x * radius * sqrt(1.25) * 2

PlaceReporter99

@lyxal Yes, i know, 9.5 million bytes just to print "Hello, World!"

mousetail

Basically like unary

Ginger

@mousetail nope

brb

mousetail

Wait nope

It's sqrt(0.75)

PlaceReporter99

Hexagon calculator: omnicalculator.com/math/hexagon

Ima see if I can embed the code

oh well... i cant

mousetail

13:16

I don't think you can embed anything in chat, the markdown is very limited

It only works for single line messages

PlaceReporter99

13:27

@mousetail r will be 1/(2*tan(30°)) as shown here: wikihow.com/…

mousetail

@PlaceReporter99 That's the same thing

sqrt(0.75) = sqrt(3) / 2 = 1/(2*tan(30))

PlaceReporter99

so ur saying sqrt(12)*tan(30)=sqrt(0.75) so tan(30)=sqrt(3/48)

@mousetail

mousetail

No, where did you get 12 and 48 from?

tan(30) = 1/sqrt(3)

1/sqrt(3) = sqrt(3)/3

New Posts

0

Q: Gödel encoding - Part I

Related but different. Taken from the book: Marvin Minsky 1967 – Computation: Finite and Infinite Machines, chapter 14. Background As the Gödel proved, it is possible to encode with a unique positive integer not just any string but any list structure, with any level of nesting. Procedure of enco...

Ginger

13:56

back

mousetail

44 mins ago, by mousetail

It's sqrt(0.75)

so 2 * sqrt(0.75)

Ginger

aight

@mousetail doesn't look right to me :p

mousetail

That's perfect

Just the half-row spacing is still off

Ginger

oh wait yeah

mousetail

but both the horizontal and vertical spacing are perfect now

Ginger

14:01

great!

thanks

why does that work tho?

mousetail

See the image I posted

Ginger

okay, fixed spacing

looks great!

mousetail

Nice

Ginger

@mousetail that's kinda hard to read, what does it say?

mousetail

hypotenuse is 1, side length is 0.5, so by pytageron theorem it's sqrt(1-(0.5 * 0.5))

Ginger

14:04

ohhh

if I change the number of sides does that still work?

I'm not intending to, just curious

mousetail

No, your only other options are squares and triangles, and you can use similar techniques but the spacing is a bit different

Ginger

right

Ginger

14:23

okay, it's mostly done!

final version:

mousetail

haha I know what you look like now

Ginger

@mousetail well, unless I look like this:

Rydwolf Programs

@EroSɘnnin What counts as a "word"?

Ginger

I'm afraid you don't really

Rydwolf Programs

Surely they're not including "the" and stuff

@Ginger ooh whatcha doin

mousetail

14:27

I can see you in the reflection

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms writing a program that converts an image into a hexagonal tessellation

for that image it generated this:

Rydwolf Programs

In the bottom right you can see a faint outline of a cat with a very concerned expression

Ginger

4 mins ago, by Ginger

@mousetail <srs>I'm not in that image; it's a test photo I got from here</srs>

okay, now time to slap a GUI on it!

mousetail

The light bounces around the earth via the atmosphere

Ginger

I don't think that's how that works

mousetail

14:30

I can see myself too

@Ginger Only because I'm wearing a aluminium foil hat that protects me

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger How does the color averaging work?

Is it just averaging the RGB?

New Posts

14:50

0

Q: The Dating Game / Secratary Problem

The bots are looking for love. Can you help them? The rules The goal of this game is find the bot you have the highest comparability with. However, robots, who are inexperienced at dating are unable to tell how well a date went. In the game, bots take turns "speed dating" some other bot. After ea...

king-of-the-hill python optimization

DLosc

15:31

@Simd That's definitely Modern Greek, which I'm not as familiar with, but let me look the word up on Wiktionary...

Looks like it means "balcony"

Unrelated String

@Fatalize ahhhh lmao

of course it would try to make it a list by default

DLosc

But that doesn't quite match with "Galerie d'art" in French, so maybe it's also the word for an art gallery.

Unrelated String

looking up the finnish "lehteri" that also means balcony lmao

or specifically, the definition i found is "balcony, gallery"

in the sense of an architectural feature

so i think the translation just messed that up :P

also come to think of it what's with that circle and pair of brackets with the cuneiform

and is that second sign a rotated 𒀭 or...

DLosc

15:47

@UnrelatedString Yeah, I'm leaning toward mistranslation of "gallery" too

Looks like maybe it should've been πινακοθήκη in Greek

Ginger

16:07

@RydwolfPrograms I downscale the input image so that there's a 1:1 mapping between hexagons and pixels d:

DLosc

16:37

Pixagons

Rydwolf Programs

Hexels

Sʨɠɠan

16:52

@Simd Галерия in Russian is "gallery"

@DLosc so youd be right

Sʨɠɠan

17:15

Having arbitrary trailing whitespace when printing to STDOUT is now an I/O default

Unrelated String

hype

Rydwolf Programs

People still pay attention to those?

Also I'm pretty sure that's been a thing for ages right?

Huh, apparently not

Unrelated String

yeah i feel like it's something that everyone already either assumes is allowed or asks about case by case and always gets told yes for

Rydwolf Programs

I mean I feel like it's the same as all I/O defaults. Either it makes perfect sense and nobody bothers to challenge it, or it's just abusing loose I/O rules to cut out steps

Sʨɠɠan

@UnrelatedString at least we can cut out the second case now

@RydwolfPrograms well it was something I posted

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

17:42

is this challenge decent? I'm afraid there might be a duplicate lurking somewhere codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25705

mousetail

18:12

Why does this error?

c=[];exec("exec('import math\\ndef f(): print(math.sin(30))\\nc[:]=[f]')", {"c":c}, {}) ; c[0]()

Or this:

exec("def q():exec('import math\\ndef f(): print(math.sin(30))\\nc[:]=[f]')\nq()", {"c":c})

Sʨɠɠan

Aaæâàáäāãå bsod

Ginger

ಠ_ಠ

Sʨɠɠan

18:28

to nfts, no less

which is like the worst thing to crash

esp since it happened while my backup drive was connected

seems to be fine tho

pxeger

@mousetail MRE

assignment in a nested exec seems to assign to a local variable instead of a global

mousetail

it's the same in a single level

Seems to be related to assigning to locals

pxeger

only if you pass a globals dict though

mousetail

Yea

According to the docs: If exec gets two separate objects as globals and locals, the code will be executed as if it were embedded in a class definition.

This seems to be what is happening because class definitions are fucked in python but it happens even if I pass just one of globals or locals

DLosc

@UnrelatedString Not always. :P (If I had a do-over, I'd have given that challenge looser I/O restrictions.)

Unrelated String

18:35

:P

pxeger

@mousetail If you only pass one, the other defaults to that of the outer scope, so they are still two separate objects

mousetail

@pxeger No, " If only globals is provided, it must be a dictionary (and not a subclass of dictionary), which will be used for both the global and the local variables"

So they will be the same object

Class rules are only used if they are distinct

At least, that's my interpretation

pxeger

@mousetail Ah you were wrong here, it doesn't happen if you only pass globals

ato.pxeger.com/…

mousetail

This fails though:

c=[];exec("def q():exec('import math\\n\\nprint(math)\\ndef f(): print(math.sin(30))\\nc[:]=[f]')\nq()", {"c":c});c[0]()

I'm only passing globals

yet it seems like it's using class-style scoping

pxeger

that's because def q():...\nq() uses class-style scoping inside q

because "class-style scoping" means

class X: ...

is basically equivalent to

def ___secret_magic_function(): ...
__build_class__(___secret_magic_function, "X")

mousetail

18:43

Why is it using class scoping though when I only pass globals?

The entire reason to wrap it in a function was to force function style scoping

pxeger

function style scoping == class style scoping (other than oddities with closures, which are irrelevant here because there are no closures)

mousetail

I'm literally trying to build a closure that has access to the variable "math" in it's context

pxeger

ah, that's the difference between function and class style scoping: the innermost exec is still using class style scoping, so math is not closed over

mousetail

Ok but how do I exec something and force function-style scoping so any functions defined can properly access any global variables defined in the same block?

after those functions "leave" the exec context

pxeger

ok I think this is actually a bug in Python

ato.pxeger.com/…

x is a local variable, so f should close over x, not use it as a global variable

actually no I think that's expected behaviour: you can't close over variables in "class-style scoping"

mousetail

18:52

yea but it shouldn't be "class-style" scoping since I'm not passing both locals and globals

pxeger

In order for this to work, you need two things:
- `math` has to be defined inside a function, so it can be closed over
- `math` has to be referenced in the same level of `exec` as where it's defined

@mousetail But by wrapping it in def q() and then using exec('...') (no dicts), you force it to use class-style scoping, because when q is called it has its own brand-new locals() which is passed implicitly into the innermost exec, (with the implicit globals still being {"c":c}), so exec still ends up with two different objects

mousetail

19:09

Ok so just passing locals() explicitly to the inner functions should fix it?

Sʨɠɠan

21:00

CMP: TIL some people pronounce Scala as “Scahla”. I always pronounced it “Scayla”. Since Scala comes from “scalable” that’d make more sense. How do y’all pronounce it?

Simd

@DLosc it must also mean gallery, as in art gallery

hyper-neutrino

interesting. I can see a few sensible ways of pronouncing it, scah-la (open a), scoh-la, scay-la, and scale-a (last two are maybe the same? idk they feel different to me)

Simd

@Sʨɠɠan cool! As In art gallery?

Sʨɠɠan

Yep

hyper-neutrino

I pronounce it as scale-a which is how I pronounce the first bit of scalable

Sʨɠɠan

21:05

@hyper-neutrino yeah the last 2 are the same to me

DLosc

5 hours ago, by DLosc

@UnrelatedString Yeah, I'm leaning toward mistranslation of "gallery" too

What's the source of the sign?

Unrelated String

^

Sʨɠɠan

TIL V8 has a JIT called “FTL”

Rydwolf Programs

21:46

I wonder if it would be possible to create a low level machine code that could be quickly proven (Rust-style) not to have memory issues

Like, where the syntax of the machine code itself prevented dangling pointers and stuff, or where it could at least be validated quickly and in O(n)

ATaco

22:24

@RydwolfPrograms With a sufficiently complicated Processor, definitely.

Sʨɠɠan

@RydwolfPrograms well if rust did it, then obviously an IR (llvm style) could do it. idk about machine code tho

Rydwolf Programs

If the machine code contained some sort of borrow/reference counting annotations, I wonder how difficult it would be to do a quick borrow check ahead of time

I guess it would partly depend on what control flow the machine code had, gotos to arbitrary places might make things complex

ATaco

Pointers are inherently unsafe, you'd need to do away with them completely.

Rydwolf Programs

I mean, in a sense. But as long as it could be verified that pointers and integers were kept separate in the machine code, they could be treated like different data types, and arithmetic on pointers could be prevented

And arithmetic on pointers would be the unsafe thing, since pointers that are left unchanged would be subject to the borrow checking

(and in fact, limited pointer arithmetic for things like structs and arrays would still be fine, though that'd probably be too complex to be implemented in the processor)

ATaco

If you only need it to be varifyably safe, that should be easier than "Always" safe.

Rydwolf Programs

22:53

Very helpful lol

(I forget how good SE is at Q&A, until I google something and the only thing that comes up is shudders Quora)

user

23:38

@Sʨɠɠan I used to pronounce it Scayla, like you, but one of my CS teachers (who had a Scala job), pronounced it Scahla, so now I pronounce it like that

Rydwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino I think it's like a glottal stop or something that prevents the ay and l from smoothly connecting

@hyper-neutrino To clarify for the first two, are those vowels "a" as in "cat" and "a" as in "father"/"o" as in "hot", or "a" as in "father" and "o" as in "cold"?

caird coinheringaahin g

@hyper-neutrino I don't get how anyone would say the second for "scala"

The three ways I could see are "skall-uh", "skay-luh" or "skah-luh"

Rydwolf Programs

I think the second is meant to be "scah" as in "scald", since to me the omission of "a" as in "cat" seems weird

And saying "scala" like an abbreviated version of "it's cola" wouldn't make much sense

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