The Nineteenth Byte

emanresu A

00:01

DialFrost

@emanresuA lmao

emanresu A

Are we still doing LYAL?

DialFrost

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

emanresu A

Looks like it's F#/Trianguish/Cognate/Labyrinh

DialFrost

anyone have any language to recommend me to learn?

Aiden Chow

00:36

@emanresuA so which one we gonna do

Steffan

@DialFrost {n*}~ is just evaluating the block n*, so you're just joining the arguments by newlines

DialFrost

@Steffan oh

ye but how come it evaluates some of the input

and why not {n}~ lol

gah gs is so confusing

Jo King

00:59

@DialFrost you're not evaluating the input though

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Test cases

6

Jo King

@DialFrost and here you're just evaluating a newline lol

lyxal

01:19

I found a 5 byter but really can't find a 4 to RPN in GS

really makes you appreciate how things automatically vectorise in modern golflangs

Steffan

it's not as trivial as you might think

it's fairly simple though

i think joking is still stuck at 5 too. i just got 4 a few days ago

lyxal

if there was some way to make a list print with newlines I'd have a 4

Steffan

n*

lyxal

in one byte

Steffan

yes that would make sense

however it wouldn't help produce a 3 byter at all

lyxal

01:26

I'm not talking about a 5 to 4

Steffan

i know

tip though, golfscript smashes the stack like jelly

it prints everything on the stack

lyxal

that doesn't help with my current approach

Steffan

i know it doesn't

you'll have to rewrite it

lyxal

no no I have rewritten it

I have what I think is a 3 byte foundation which needs a single byte list join

Steffan

yes i know what you have and it's not gonna help you

lyxal

01:29

what do i have

no

Steffan

wait nevermind

that's dumb

wait

what's cool is that that problem will be 2 bytes in vyxal

lyxal

that's right

8 mins ago, by lyxal

really makes you appreciate how things automatically vectorise in modern golflangs

Steffan

nevermind, i don't know what you have

lyxal

looks like it doesn't work anyway

doesn't work because it returns a string instead of a list

Steffan

no it doesn't

it dumps everything onto the stack

you're really close btw

DialFrost

01:31

@JoKing :(

lyxal

@Steffan as I said, I need a 1 byte list join

Steffan

that wont help lol

it doesn't giv you a list

DialFrost

@Steffan ye lmao

lyxal

@Steffan wait those are all stack items?

DialFrost

i've been thinking about a 1char that loops the input

lyxal

01:33

oh that's cursed

DialFrost

is there such a thing? @Steffan

Steffan

no

DialFrost

darn

then how is 4 possible gah

are any brackets needed?

i havent even found a solution yet XD

Steffan

no

DialFrost

no brackets?

wut...

Steffan

01:36

i thought and thought and couldn't figure it out. i jumped in bed and then i figured it out lol

Ginger

lmao

DialFrost

at least u know some gs lol

Steffan

you always get the best ideas in bed

DialFrost

no u dont

(well at least for me)

lyxal

@Steffan only if you know the quirks of the language

DialFrost

01:39

@lyxal yup

@lyxal hinter for 5? :3

lyxal

Hard to come up with something creative when you've only ever touched GS like twice

DialFrost

@lyxal i havent touched it at all

lyxal

@DialFrost you want to evaluate and then print each expression

DialFrost

@lyxal i know that lol, just not how to do it

wait gimme a sec

nvm

Ginger

I just defined a class called TCPJSONRPCClient

lyxal

01:41

@DialFrost how do you apply a block to each item in a list

Ginger

that's 3 acronyms in one definition

DialFrost

@lyxal %?

Steffan

or /

lyxal

@DialFrost that's right

Steffan

% and / will both work

lyxal

01:42

And how would you evaluate and then print an individual expression

(as in say the input was just a single expression, not a list, just a single string)

DialFrost

errr

wait doesnt gs push the stack for u at the end?

so no print needed?

@Steffan ah k

caird coinheringaahing

You know what's fun? Going "Oh, the trailers for that show looked funny, I'll watch episode 1 and then go to bed", and then stopping for a break 3 hours later at 1:45am, knowing that you're gonna watch at least 5 more episodes

DialFrost

@lyxal eval is ~

@cairdcoinheringaahing i cant do that unfortunately :(

lyxal

@DialFrost that's right

But you also want to explicitly print because you're doing it to each item

DialFrost

oh

OH

whoopsie my output is now all in one line not on newlines ;facepalm:

lyxal

01:47

That's why you put the print inside the block

DialFrost

@lyxal i did!

{pn~}% ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

lyxal

Gs is stack based

Plus you just need p

DialFrost

@lyxal ?

wdym

yoooo i have the longest solution, 10 9 bytes!

Ginger

isn't that like not a good thing :b

DialFrost

@Ginger lol at least i solved it right? :3

Ginger

01:53

fair enough

DialFrost

darn bubbler got the 5

Steffan

5 is easy

DialFrost

for you maybe

Steffan

idk how to get longer without padding it

DialFrost

{pn~"
"}%

lyxal

01:59

@DialFrost commands go the other way around in the block

Steffan

just loop over each and eval and print

it's like vyxal

stack based

DialFrost

@Steffan idk how to loop

Steffan

you're already looping

DialFrost

oh

XD

@Steffan thats what i did :3

Steffan

you only need two bytes in the loop

most of yours is redundant

DialFrost

02:01

@Steffan ?rly?

Steffan

pn doesn't do anything ni yours, and "\n" is just n

lyxal

@DialFrost {pn~}% was close

DialFrost

OH

got it guys

@lyxal i followed this advice :3

did {~p}% instead

lyxal

That's what I have :p

Steffan

more people have 4b than 5b actually

DialFrost

02:03

:(

whta'd you do to get 4?

Steffan

{~n}%, {~p}%, {~n}/, and {~p}/ all work

u already asked me that

you should probably learn golfscript so you can actually write a program yourself first

DialFrost

@Steffan :/

Ginger

lol

also, the name has [[Becomed]] TCPLSPJSONRPCClient

that's 4 acronyms

lyxal

Ah I see the 4 byter now

DialFrost

:|

lyxal

02:16

I'll give you a hint: currently the input is a list of strings. What if you were to somehow turn it into a single string you could evaluate and have smash printing take care of newline joining for you?

DialFrost

@lyxal hmm

@lyxal if its a single string then wont gs accidentally evluate the whole thing/

lyxal

It will, but that's what you want in this case

DialFrost

??

lyxal

Each expression in the input doesn't impact previously evaluated expressions

DialFrost

hmm

by any chance is * used?

lyxal

02:21

It is

DialFrost

:3

smash printing???

lyxal

The entire stack is printed at end of execution without any separator

So if the stack is [1, 2, 3], the output will be 123

DialFrost

hmm

but there isnt anything that smash prints in 1 byte... is there?

lyxal

It's automatic

Jo King

literally does it in zero bytes

DialFrost

02:24

oh

@lyxal smash printing doesnt take care of the newline joining... right?

lyxal

No, you need to insert the newlines manually somehow

DialFrost

is this partially correct? n*~

lyxal

That's where I was stuck for a while, so yes

DialFrost

@lyxal steffan said n was newline but i dont see a way to properly have a n anywhere

lyxal

Consider that the newline needs to be literally evaluated in the joined string instead of just ignored

DialFrost

02:29

@lyxal but..but i tried doing that (im def doing it wrong), and i got the input in the output instead :p

Jo King

oh got it lol

deletes brute forcer that wasn't going anywhere

DialFrost

darn im so slow at this

Bubbler

I got it too hehe

DialFrost

noooooo

@lyxal or am i interpreting something wrong here

@lyxal wdym "literally eval"

oh

got it! ~~god that took forever~~

thanks a lot @lyxal

Steffan

@lyxal spoiling everything

DialFrost

02:37

@Steffan honestly right, i didnt understand a word he said

so I had to go back to the golfscript built-ins to look for that missing char

Steffan

almost looks like somebody pasted it into chat

DialFrost

@Steffan lmaooo

Steffan

like everyone gets it at once

i saw the recent solutions before i saw the chat and i came in here preparing to see the code somebody pasted

@JoKing lmao i tried bruteforcing it in bash too like a week ago and it just sat there and nothing happened

it would take forever

DialFrost

@Steffan why would someone paste it?

Steffan

i have no idea

DialFrost

02:41

plus the only person here who has the solution other than you in chat is lyxal i think

and lyxal (never?) gives solutions

or am i wrong :p

Jo King

@Steffan i was on the step of "remove instructions that clearly won't work" and figured it out while looking through the gs instructions. i think i would have it optimised enough to work by that point

Steffan

If you go on code.golf server, the golfing gods might give you one hint and no more. we're generous :p

lyxal

@DialFrost I didn't give out any solutions, I just gave more helpful and useful hints :p

DialFrost

@lyxal lmao i agree

@Steffan yup lmao (theyre called golfing gods for a reason)

Steffan

Yeah, well the only reason I was first place in tribonacci triangle on weekgolf (just for example) is because emanresu basically gave me the solution in trash

He gave me like 100 hints so it was easy lmao

Hints add up

DialFrost

02:43

hmm i never knew emanresu likes to give hints

Steffan

he does lol

DialFrost

anyone have a recommended lang for me to learn?

@Steffan wow i better start asking him next time

anyone know where the CGCC 7 segment display challenge is

user

@DialFrost Golflang? If you want something that's relatively easy to learn, maybe Vyxal. If you want a challenge, maybe Jelly

APL isn't as golfy as either of those but it's somewhere in between in terms of difficulty and it's very rewarding, plus there's a whole chatroom here to help you out (The APL Orchard)

If you're looking for a practical language, I'm going to (unironically) suggest Java

Jo King

@DialFrost learn raku and beat my 7 segment diamond, it's apparently my oldest held diamond

user

02:58

Is Raku a good language to learn for practical stuff or is it mostly just good as a fun cursed golfish lang?

Jo King

it's nice to prototype in, but pretty slow otherwise

Aiden Chow

feedback: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/… ?

@user i try out apl and i just cant wrap my head around tacit programming, its like way too confusing for me

like i look at a train and i cant fathom how anyone would come up with that, for me i make a dfn first then remove random stuff until it works

caird coinheringaahing

03:16

I may be biased, but Jelly is an easier tacit lang to learn than APL, mainly because it's fixed arity

DialFrost

@user i alr learned vyxal :3

@JoKing not sure, it seems...strange

caird coinheringaahing

All you need to know is the number of arguments the first chain takes, and the parsing patterns

DialFrost

@cairdcoinheringaahing ye

Aiden Chow

@cairdcoinheringaahing i find tacit programming confusing in general lmfao

DialFrost

@JoKing slow? darn

Jo King

03:20

i think they're doing some sort of rewrite to improve the speed, but it's slower than most interpreted languages

DialFrost

@user why not JS?

Unrelated String

yeah one intuitive advantage of fixed adicity is there's a certain degree of higher locality to the patterns

emanresu A

JS is pretty useful

DialFrost

@emanresuA ye

Unrelated String

i've been on and off trying to port a primitive hybrid rust js application into just rust (+ autogenerated js glue) and it's insane how much js infects

DialFrost

03:23

Question: what language do you think is best for me to learn (considering I've learnt some julia, python, and vyxal), you can suggest both a golflang and a practical one (easy langs pls :3)

Unrelated String

haskell, brachylog 😈

DialFrost

@JoKing raku doesnt seem fun :/

Aiden Chow

i found pip pretty easy to learn

emanresu A

Honestly I'd recommend JS. It's not the best option for anything, but it works for everything.

Also golfing in it is pretty fun

DialFrost

@emanresuA ill go for js soon then, plus i see a lot of ppl using it on code.golf

Aiden Chow

03:26

isnt js like super cursed or smth

DialFrost

@AidenChow kinda lmao

depends on how you define "cursed"

Jo King

but cursed in a fun way, like bowling with a watermelon

DialFrost

lmao

@JoKing you really think i should learn raku? (ignoring my own opinion for now)

Jo King

i'd probably choose python or javascript as more practical while still having competition for golfing

DialFrost

ah ok

Jo King

03:32

i really wish raku had vectorisation though

Unrelated String

wait does it actually not

that seems like a very perly thing to have

Steffan

raku does have vectorization (in a way, at least)

<<*>> is vectorized multiplication for example

Jo King

you can also do stuff like @arr X% 2 but it gets unwieldy since it doesn't keep the precedences of the operators

Steffan

i never really understood your trick with X%9 for popcount

Jo King

if it kept the precedence i wouldn't be so annoyed

Steffan

03:37

it seems to somehow sum something or something sometimes

Jo King

@Steffan a base n number mod n-1 will equal the digit sum mod n-1

Steffan

hmm interesting

Jo King

in this case we're interpreting the base 2 number as a base 10 one

Steffan

ah yeah that makes sense

but how does X% manage to do digit sum?

that's what's strange

Jo King

i don't remember the original problem, but wasn't it a list of binary strings?

Steffan

03:40

no

wait yes it was

nevermind

Jo King

the X being "vectorisation"

Steffan

in a more recent problem you had a funky base 13 trick

but it seems to just be a cursed thing that works

Jo King

same thing, base 13 number mod 12 = popcount (the base 13 was stolen from an CGSE evil number answer)

Steffan

i guess base 36 mod 35 works just as well, but you had to mod 12 anyway

Jo King

i'm also using it in the new Pernicious Long hole, with Raku's :16(.base(2))%15

there's some much shorter way to get popcount apparently though

Steffan

03:52

hmm

yeah primo is using it in like every lang

outgolfing everyone by like 20 bytes

in my pernicios long solution, that would need parens so it adds a byte

you must have a better formula for raku, even though i'm first place in python and you aren't which is strange tbh

Jo King

you mean is-prime lol

Steffan

oh lmao

my bytes solution uses is-prime but not the chars one

DialFrost

@Steffan how?

im at 101 :3

Steffan

pysearch

DialFrost

gahhh

i cant use that :|

Steffan

03:59

101 sounds too long though

DialFrost

@Steffan lol

Steffan

are you using bit_count()?

DialFrost

no

Steffan

that will save you a lot probably

DialFrost

for x in range(1,10001):a=sum(map(int,str(bin(x))[2:]));all(a%m for m in range(2,a))*~-a and print(x)

@Steffan wats that lmao

Steffan

04:00

sum(map(int,str(bin(x))[2:])) => x.bit_count()

` and ` => >0==

DialFrost

oh... thats new for me

@Steffan wow

Jo King

@Steffan got it, just needed to add more numbers to the pysearch

DialFrost

@JoKing i need to add more ram :(

Radvylf Programs

Cursed language idea: >= and <= only work because of some weird tacit thing that makes >/< and = combine into a single operator

Same w/ !=

Bonus points if it's the same mechanism by which += and stuff work

or what if a <= b was actually just a = a < b

Jo King

already implemented cursed idea, prolog has =< to avoid using <=

caird coinheringaahing

04:47

I still think languages should have => as bitwise implies :P

Unrelated String

ahahah

UndoneStudios

hi

Radvylf Programs

05:03

NOOOO the Australians lied to me, it was actually out of stock there too :(

Jo King

gottem

it can't be out at every store right? i saw at least 3 stores that listed it as in stock

or maybe i was mistaking it for the medium version

emanresu A

05:41

@RadvylfPrograms Could have >|= + similar

mousetail

@JoKing Nice, smart use of the l< to push 01 and reverse in only 2 characters

DialFrost

05:56

@JoKing any useless hints to get 36 in gs for FB?

Jo King

see the tips page

DialFrost

06:08

so the hint is in there?

quick question: how are langs added in code.golf? like how are they picked to be in the site

Bubbler

if a PR is added and people on discord like it

DialFrost

@lyxal add a PR :3

emanresu A

They've said they'll probably allow it

DialFrost

@emanresuA its been over 1 year ...

emanresu A

And no one's added a PR for vyxal

DialFrost

06:18

why dont u do it :3

emanresu A

I don't care enough

DialFrost

@emanresuA :(

emanresu A

If you want to do it, copy an existing lang PR

Bubbler

@DialFrost why dont u do it :3

6

DialFrost

@Bubbler i dont know how :/

emanresu A

06:20

> copy an existing lang PR

Docker container, install script, runner, and some config info... That should be it

DialFrost

do i have to do the dockerfile script and everything?

emanresu A

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look at an existing lang PR

lyxal

@DialFrost I've tried to but I don't know docker

DialFrost

(me who doesnt even know what a docker is)

@lyxal did u ask anyone on dc :/

mousetail

Docker isn't that hard

DialFrost

06:26

@mousetail pls teach lyxal ~~or maybe u can do it? :3~~

emanresu A

I don't understand it either but it shouldn't be that hard to copy this

And you can probably ask around on the discord for help

DialFrost

@emanresuA but how come that lang hasnt been added yet?

emanresu A

Probably because the owner hasn't got around to handling it yet

DialFrost

ic

great now everyone is using the snowflake react to the msg when i entered dc XD

@lyxal can pls try? thx lol (mouse cna teach u)

emanresu A

The hard part is gonna be building code.golf

DialFrost

06:31

@emanresuA ?

emanresu A

I'd expect it to be on the order of 5-10 gigabytes and 5 minutes-2 hours to build

lyxal

@emanresuA that's true as well

DialFrost

wdym building code.golf???

lyxal

I can do all the docker stuff I want but I don't have the resources to really test things locally

emanresu A

You'll have to actually test that it works

DialFrost

06:32

oh

@lyxal resources?

maybe steffan can test it, i saw steffan testing someone's lang on a PR b4

@lyxal but u can make them first right?

lyxal

@DialFrost computer storage, etc

DialFrost

07:22

@Steffan maybe u can help out? :p

Question: how many discord notifications do you currently have (Twist: highest number wins)

Aiden Chow

08:18

@DialFrost 0

DialFrost

@AidenChow like unread?

the red circle thingy

Aiden Chow

ye 0

DialFrost

wow

I have 631

Aiden Chow

im not in any servers that ping 24/7 lmfao

i think most of my discord notifications are from dms

DialFrost

@AidenChow mine arent

which is why im confused

notif only come up from mentions?

Aiden Chow

08:21

umm u get notified if u get dmed as well

DialFrost

do they come up from only dms and mentions?

Aiden Chow

not entirely sure but i think so

Jo King

some servers have it set so you get notifications for all messages by default (which is insane)

Bubbler

you can configure it in the server settings

Jo King

you can change this yourself in the server settings (or just mute servers entirely like i do)

DialFrost

08:28

but i checked my dc eralier

i only have around 30 notifs from each server

(yes im in a lot of servers)

@JoKing lazy

Aiden Chow

@JoKing bro i would not be able to stand that

Jo King

i think technically it is discord's fault for making that the default

Unrelated String

08:49

i had no idea that existed as a server setting

i just manually mute every server i join

Aiden Chow

any more feedback guys: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/…

mousetail

12:58

@JoKing This makes sense for most discords that have like 10 people

New Posts

13:28

0

Q: Rarity of a String

Input: A string Output: The rarity of the string, as described below. To find the rarity of a string, follow the steps below. Start with 0. Subtract 3 for each E, A, T, or O in the string. Subtract 2 for each I, N, S, or H in the string. Subtract 1 for each R, D, L, or C in the string. Add 1 for...

Seggan

14:48

Happy Fibonacci Day y'all!

@RadvylfPrograms thats how it works in Fig

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