The Nineteenth Byte

emanresu A

02:14

Do we have any consensus on answers whose validity is not known?

(extreme example) say I had an answer that only worked if the collatz conjecture was true, would it be valid?

caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA Yes: if you can't prove it valid, it isn't valid

Lemme find the meta consensus

17

A: Do we really want to delete undecidable answers, even if they were declared non-competing?

Yes Non-competing doesn't allow an answer to do what it wants, and not meet the questions specifications. If a question has a specific scoring system, answers whose scores can't be calculated shouldn't be marked non-competing, they should be removed from the question. In short, if I posted an ans...

emanresu A

Even if you can't prove it invalid?

caird coinheringaahing

Taking your Collatz example, I'd say that it should be deleted, and, if even proven to be valid, flag for undeletion

It isn't perfect with such "conditional" answers, but I like to err on the site of caution and only allow answers that are proven to be valid

@peterh if it can't provably complete the task, and can't have an objective, determinable score, it isn't a valid answer — caird coinheringaahing Sep 24, 2017 at 16:19

caird coinheringaahing

03:52

CMC: Given n, and assuming Collatz, output the largest value in the Collatz chain of n

PyGamer0

example?

caird coinheringaahing

14 -> 52

PyGamer0

04:23

@cairdcoinheringaahing ngn/k, 26 bytes: |/{x>1}{$[2!x;1+3*x;x%2]}\

@thejonymyster it's outside the codepage

@Adám yes, 1,2 -> (1 2)

@Neil oh oops forgot to negate ⁿ lol

$(-2)^{-n}$

@thejonymyster they render for me

graffe

CMC Given a year as input, print “God save the King” or “God save the Queen” as appropriate.

New Posts

04:50

-1

Q: God Save the King (or Queen)!

Input A calendar year from 927 to the present year. For example 2022. Output “God Save the King!” or “God Save the Queen!” depending on which was right in England on the first day of that year. If there was no King or Queen on that date, your code can output anything that is not one of those two ...

code-golf

emanresu A

~~vtc as dupe~~

Aiden Chow

@NewPosts rip deleted by author lol

graffe

@AidenChow it was about to be closed :(

Why is codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25123/108721 so terrible?

@emanresuA ah yes …I hope you don’t mind

Aiden Chow

@graffe one problem i see is that most ppl will probably find it more convenient to have all the years which have kings/queens all compiled into one list, preferably in the question body itself, or at least provide a link to such a list.

graffe

@AidenChow lazy toads but ok

emanresu A

05:04

@graffe The reason I posted it as a CMC was that I thought it wouldn't make a good challenge.

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing Huh, I was thinking about this exact idea a few days ago.

Sandbox Posts

-2

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Title God Save the Queen (or King)! Input A calendar year from 927 to the present year. For example 2022. Output “God Save the King!” or “God Save the Queen!” depending on which was right in England on the first day of that year. If there was no King or Queen on that date, your code can output an...

graffe

05:27

@emanresuA why wouldn’t it make a good challenge?

graffe

05:42

@AidenChow dates added

It must be perfect now :)

DLosc

05:55

@lyxal Uh, hate to break it to you but your CMC is actually 51 shades of gray. "Git rekt nerd" or something like that.

Aiden Chow

@graffe i cant guess as to why emanresu thinks its not a good challenge, but for me, i feel like the challenge might come down someone figuring out some "black magic formula" that will somehow distinguish between the two different types of years, which has been done many times before already and isnt anything particularly new (interesting and ingenious for sure though, dont get me wrong :P).

DLosc

^

Aiden Chow

or maybe some compression shenanigans that will somehow store which years is which type, but compression has already been seen in a bunch of other kc challenges and this doesnt seem to add anything new to that aspect as well.

now that i think about, its kinda like decision-problem but with an annoying output format

like instead of outputting truthy/falsey value for if its a king or not, you have to output "God Save the (King/Queen)!"

graffe

@AidenChow you can of course compress the two strings

So it’s not ground breaking….but I still hope it’s fun!

It’s such a simple question I might post it soon unless anyone has any improvement suggestions

Aiden Chow

06:13

@graffe i highly suggest that you leave it in the sandbox for at least 2 or 3 more days, especially since ur sandbox post has a negative score rn, which will only be amplified on main

graffe

@AidenChow ok…I think the negative score was due to not having listed the dates

But I’ll leave it there for at least 24 more hours

It has to be posted before Monday of course

emanresu A

06:41

@DLosc git: 'rekt' is not a git command. See 'git --help'.

PyGamer0

CMP: How about ‟ for a comment character?

Unrelated String

kinda counterintuitive

also what kind of language

PyGamer0

flax

@UnrelatedString it looks like you are quoting something

‟ Sum of n terms of the series:
‟      1-½+¼-⅛+···
‟ nth term is just (-½)ⁿ
Σ¯.*ι

pxeger

06:57

Vim uses " for comments

PyGamer0

i use " for string delimeters

Unrelated String

it's still precedent for ‟ making sense

graffe

09:23

code-golf question rules are very strict!

pxeger

09:50

Why does codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/251885 have an undelete vote?

emanresu A

idk

OPs can't do that rihgt?

mousetail

11:10

Can't wait to get 10K to have opinions on these things

py3programmer

11:21

how much rep you have now

wait you only got 2k?

mousetail

I only started actively participating recently

py3programmer

same

my first question, people were like, what was that and all

so was kind of discouraged

so... yeah, joined back in summer vacation

mousetail

It's a lot easier to gain rep here than on SO though so I think this will overtake my SO rep soon even though I started here much later

py3programmer

guesso

i joined SO recently

to answer a question

that later got closed

mousetail

@py3programmer A question being closed is great for answers. No possible competition

py3programmer

11:28

true

but my rep is frozen

at 101

mousetail

Sad

py3programmer

cuz i dont have much more to do there

than here

Jo King

11:44

@emanresuA apparently they can?

PyGamer0

@py3programmer heh i have less than 2k and i have been here for 1 year and 4 months

mousetail

12:33

I guess having py in your name isn't great for rep

lyxal

14:14

@cairdcoinheringaahing Vyxal, 10 bytes: ‡₍½‡T›iİJG

uses a neat little 8 byte collatz snippet written by lynn

Neil

15:43

ugh, why does git stash push -k save the changes in the index

graffe

16:26

any comments on my simple challenge ? codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25123/108721

graffe

16:40

@user hi

@user did I misunderstand xnor's advice?

I guess I can change it so that you choose what you want to output

Razetime

@graffe i think what xnor expects is something like "two distinct values to denote king/queen"

@graffe yeah this or boolean probably

graffe

@Razetime right.. actually three distinct values in my case. I'll do that later

thanks

Razetime

ah three

mousetail

@graffe when will you upload a profile picture?

user

@graffe I know it was previously more fun, but it's currently still a fixed string that isn't even fun

Razetime

16:44

@mousetail thousands of people on this site use an identicon

mousetail

I know and it makes it hard to recognize them

user

That's actually what graffe looks in real life

graffe is actually a graph, plotted in Desmos, come to life

Razetime

@mousetail then use their name to recognize them

mousetail

@Razetime There's a ton of people with very similar names though

user

^^ pfps can be hard to tell apart too

mathcat

16:46

@user Does that mean Desmos is a void which spits out life?

user

@mousetail You can use custom CSS to make the usernames' font size larger, perhaps?

mousetail

@user You both have the most generic name and PFP :/

Razetime

@mousetail that's a you problem :)

user

@mousetail That's the point :)

mousetail

I know but it's annoying because whenever I see user353215 talking or something I think it's you

Razetime

16:47

user is the most creative epic person in the world

user

Yes, my real life name is actually Original Original Original VI

Anyway, you won't have to bother with distinguishing me from others much longer, I'm probably leaving CGCC today

mathcat

da what

mousetail

What why?

Razetime

@user cya

user

o/

@mousetail Being a dramatic emo

mathcat

16:48

lol dramatic exit

Razetime

user will be replaced with a newer model

mousetail

Maybe "Participant"

Or "Customer"

graffe

17:25

@user I understand now

@mousetail what do you suggest?

mousetail

@graffe Search "graffe" on google and use the first image result

Radvylf Programs

This is what I get, apparently it's a type of Italian pastry

Actually those look pretty good, would be a solid pfp

graffe

@mousetail don't I have to worry about licensing?

They do look great

mousetail

@graffe I don't think SO cares

graffe

pfp?

@mousetail :)

codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25123/108721 must be perfect now

Radvylf Programs

17:28

@graffe Short for Profile Picture

graffe

I have followed all my instructions :)

@RadvylfPrograms thanks. What is the long one?

(sorry)

Radvylf Programs

What long one

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms you said it was Short for Profile Picture

It was a weak joke and I apologized for that immediately

Radvylf Programs

ohh lol

graffe

:)

@user is it better now?

att

17:43

oops i missed the ping sorry

@mousetail hi

mousetail

@att Hi

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms done

I have never had a profile picture before. It's a revolution!

mousetail

All revolutions that don't involve guiotines are good revolutions

Radvylf Programs

Idk, depends on who you're guillotining

mousetail

I think in any revolution I'd be the one they'd be guillotining since I'm always a bit contrarian

graffe

17:55

@mousetail this sounds very french

mousetail

Also I hate the french

graffe

@mousetail thanks! :)

mousetail

They have the worst language

graffe

@mousetail that's why you will be guillotined!

@mousetail in what sense? Worse than C?

mousetail

Let me strech my neck first

graffe

17:56

:)

mousetail

@graffe Only in french can more than half the letters be silent

and the actual sound have no relation at all to the spelling

graffe

@mousetail whitespace?

@mousetail try danish! It's unreadable

mousetail

@graffe At least the letters correspond roughly to sounds

I know there was the whole german vs swedish spelling thing if I'm correct

graffe

@mousetail maybe but which sounds? There is no way to guess in Danish

mousetail

Are you danish?

If not I'll make something up

otherwise I'll need to do some research

graffe

17:58

I mean just look at babbel.com/en/magazine/danish-pronunciation

@mousetail no but I lived there for 6 months and still couldn't read anything out loud

mousetail

Ok Danish is terrible too

"The discrepancy between what’s written and what’s actually said is difficult for many learners to grasp"

Can we all just speak Spanish?

graffe

"“But what’s with all the extra letters? Don’t you have to pronounce them?” The discrepancy between what’s written and what’s actually said is difficult for many learners to grasp"

mousetail

Of all languages I know it has the most consistent spelling

graffe

Esperanto?

mousetail

Esperato is good too I hear but I don't know much about it

graffe

18:00

It's the future... Well it is always the future

Italian is pretty phonetic too

mousetail

I think latin languages in general are ok

graffe

Except french!

mousetail

French is germanic right?

graffe

Which is oddly physically between Italy and Spain

@mousetail "French is a Romance language (meaning that it is descended primarily from Vulgar Latin) that evolved out of the Gallo-Romance dialects spoken in northern France"

It's Latin, just difficult

mousetail

Damn such a good family then to ruin it like that

a shame

graffe

18:03

Every family has one difficult relative

mousetail

True

mathcat

nah Latin was already the worst

Radvylf Programs

Latin's at least pronounced pretty normally

mathcat

okay true

graffe

@mathcat will your language hatred ever end??

What about English? That's a pretty weird language when it comes to pronunciation

Radvylf Programs

18:11

English is even worse than French

Since it takes all of the weirdness of over a dozen languages and combines it

mathcat

French at least sounds cool

Radvylf Programs

Including French itself

att

why not learn chinese

you can have lots of fun trying to guess pronunciations

mathcat

I love guessing games!!!

graffe

We could have a "what rhymes with" challenge but with only Chinese characters

Just to make things easy :)

Bgil Midol

18:23

hi

graffe

Hello!

hyper-neutrino

at least chinese grammar isn't all that cringe compared to like, french, cuz you don't have to deal with conjugations lol

(or maybe i just think that cuz i speak it. who knows)

graffe

I don't know any chinese!

is rhyming a big thing in chinese (as it is in English)?

hyper-neutrino

18:50

hmm. i'm not actually sure, like poetry definitely exists obviously but i'm not sure if rhyming is as valued

there definitely is rhyming i'm just not sure how prevalent of a thing it is in like literature

graffe

does the poetry often rhyme?

hyper-neutrino

> Traditional forms of Chinese poetry are rhymed (Wikipedia)

seems like it lol

> Traditional forms of Chinese poetry are rhymed, however the mere rhyming of text may not qualify literature as being poetry; and, as well, the lack of rhyme would not necessarily disqualify a modern work from being considered poetry, in the sense of modern Chinese poetry.

graffe

that sounds much like English

hyper-neutrino

yep

Seggan

@mousetail Fig and Vyxal also have their own sites

mousetail

19:03

@Seggan Yea so does CellTail

att

@hyper-neutrino grammatically it's very similar to english, actually

hyper-neutrino

that's true. i only noticed that somewhat recently (like a year or two ago?) but a lot of simpler sentences are almost word-for-word when you translate them lol

graffe

13

A: Are there poems in Chinese that rhyme?

This question really surprises me. Since you mentioned 李白 and 杜甫, clearly you were talking about classical Chinese poetry. Classical Chinese poetry is so into rhymes and rhythms that it is almost unhealthy. There are volumes of books written on rhymes and rhythms of classical Chinese poetry. Aski...

att

> It would probably be more difficult to write such poems, due to the lack of available syllables

would you not expect the opposite

pxeger

19:31

@att That is surprising, given how poorly Chinese seems to always be translated into English

Unrelated String

rhyming? in a language family most of the history of which was reconstructed from rhyming dictionaries? impossible

pxeger

Is it that chinese speakers tend not to understand or remember english conjugations?

Unrelated String

chinese definitely does a lot of things differently from english grammatically
english is just closer to it in some general ways than it is to a lot of its close relatives in western europe

serial verb constructions and some of the ways of marking aspect seem kinda wild

graffe

19:46

How would you do this in python? codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/251878/108721

hyper-neutrino

@pxeger well the structure is often similar but like i said, there is a lack of conjugations, so going from chinese into english can be hard

also a lot of the common fails you see are just due to certain common phrases becoming strange when translated word for word

for example, 小心 means "be careful" but also means "be careful of", so for example 小心的开车 means "drive carefully" but 小心滑倒 means "be careful of slipping and falling", but if you translate it literally you might get "be careful while slipping and falling", thus giving you something like

which I always find pretty funny

mathcat

lol

pxeger

Anyone else see an unviewable user user1717218 appear in chat?

caird coinheringaahing

Low rep users do that

pxeger

Ah, I found chat.stackexchange.com/faq#avatar

mathcat

20:00

@pxeger Yeah, that made me lose 2 hours of my life I can never get back again

I was testing a bot with < 20 rep

att

20:36

@hyper-neutrino 地 (:

Aiden Chow

Dang just how many of y’all speak and write Chinese here

hyper-neutrino

i can't really read/write it lol

Aiden Chow

@hyper-neutrino oh but u were just typing Chinese and translating them?

hyper-neutrino

well i can read/write a very small amount lol, just not familiar with the written language overall

i know how to speak it, so the words that i do know i can use

Aiden Chow

Ah makes sense

97.100.97.109

21:09

On an unrelated note: How do people feel about me posting codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25049/113573 ?

Radvylf Programs

22:19

→ 6 half-baked cookies moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

Radvylf Programs

22:32

Okay I'm convinced Chrome is just messing with me

Now I can't get a file upload to work

Except it works fine if I copy the entire HTML file and click the file upload button there

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